Why there cant be aliens

If your theory is correct, humans would exterminate all other non-human life on Earth. As they could pose a threat to our dominance.

It is of course nonsense, a supremely advanced alien race is no more likely to find us a threat than we find the common housefly a threat!

You will all get your chance to gradually grow from a tiny one-celled life form into an intergalactic supergod who can potentially take over and rule the entire universe in the upcoming game for PC called "Spore" (should come out around August/September 2006). Look it up, if the hype is close to reality, this should be the most amazing and "epic" game ever attempted. It's being developed by Will Wright, who also created all the SimCity games and "The Sims" games.

As a real theory (taking over the entire universe) it fails if the universe is itself infinite, and as such, unconquerable as a whole. If it's not infinite then it came out of nothing, and because that is impossible, then it is infinite after all! But the game that's coming out is finite (though the game universe is only a game universe, your galactic techno-god can't pop out and mess with the creator can he).

interesting point, but i reckon we have our uses as slaves to their control far better than to just eradicate us... heard about alliances with aliens at los alamo, mutilations, etc. they are already here sapping us all.

Ok that will be long answer cuz so many of u criticized my theory ^^

@lilblam:
I mentioned peacefull races. Im talking about those races which did not become budhas. Plz read carefully.
We arent concearned bout flies cuz we know well die from heartattack or age. I rather find it unlikely that my mother will kill me and IF i become immortal id much more fear an alien having a totally different ethical understanding.
Inteligent life is by far the greatest threat for those races (OK own stupidity can alwas couse death like u mentioned rocks and pencils).
Later u seem to understand my point of view but say it cant be cuz i assume the universe is limited. Well just to let u know the matter in universe IS limited only space is unlimited. There is a limited number of galaxies, stars and generally matter.
Running doesnt matter cuz we cant run yet but still are alive. Even more so should the aliens eraze the earth as long as we are not able to hide from them.
Again i assume the current stance of the science saying the matter is limited even more it can be measured! In fact it is possible to calculate the mass of the universe.

@robertfenix;
hmm lol did u read my post? I dont care which way the ETs invented something. U totally missed the point ^^

@the newspaper man:
Well if i were a moralless immortal ass i would destroy all planets with life on them. Maybe there still would be some kind of life somewhere but i would seek to minimize the odds.

@Skadi_the_Evil_Elf:
Ilogical? Well both of your arguments totally miss the point ^^
I did mention peacefull races.
I was talking about POTENTIAL threat.

@lilblam nr.2:
I was never talking bout ALL aliens. SOME are perfectly enough.
Tree exapmle doesnt work. Trees are limited in their power much much more limited then a super high tech race of intelligent beings. What i did was making assumptions which u are free to critisize and then making a logical string which leads to number 2. What u did is take a weak logical string and try to prove that my string cant work cuz yours doesnt.
Show why my assumptions are wrong or where the string is weak.

@iamian:
Yes. This is a ruduced form of my theory (not argumentation).

@kojak:
Space is infinite. Matter is limited.

@theObserver:
Funny how fast pple decide something is nonesence. In fact your statement isnt any sencefull. The flies are a joke cuz we ll most likely die from heartattack or aging. IF we were immortal and houseflies could develop inteligence then indeed they would be a threat, but we arnt and we have other problems.

@
longhaircowboy
grasshopper
zenlover28
Monkeyz
nouvelle
Ghaele
plz try to understand what i posted then try to find errors in my assumptions/logic. Sry i wasnt able to find any constructive sence behind your posts.

And to all the viewrs. Plz dont be so fast with rejecting especially rude rejection of what others say. I showed that pple who called my logic weak actually didnt show any mind in their own posts. So plz before u insult somebody first be sure your own argumentation is flawless otherwise ur stupid.
It seems like nobody have understood what i was trieng to explain. All i hear is "bad logic", "there ARE aliens" and arguments against things i never stated ^^. Cmon even I can think of two strong anti arguments ^^. Im holding it back yet to make it interesting.

If you are going to accuse people of not reading your posts correctly, then it would be a good idea not to do this yourself!

I was referring to my first line as nonsense NOT your post. Please do not make the mistake of not reading peoples posts thoroughly, as they have gone to trouble of responding to you and you should respect them and their views.

I do not agree with you and I believe your logic is not sound. I have given 1 reason why, here's another: If I am immortal, why would I be concerned about dying?

The Observer
Who r u trying to fool? U said according to my theory this and that and thats nonsense so in fact u said my theory is nonsense.
U may not share my view but i destroyed your first argument.
And if u try to think u will surely realize that the whole thread only makes sense if im speaking of the biological immortality not of the absolute one! haha why would i say all the aliens want defend them selves if they were totally immortal?
Cmon it seems like ur only trying to contradict like looking for any possible hole but only finding your own misunderstanding.
But im sorry if i sound kinda unfriendly im only answering in kind. I mean only thing i hear is pple contradicting although they only have wrong arguments or not even understand what i said like u did not understand the immortality thing. I mean this is maybe the most important part and then u come in read fast through some words of my post and come with your ignorant NONSENSE. Im thankfull for pple to actually READ, UNDERSTAND and then maybe respond.

seems to me your the one not reading and understanding. I have read your original post 3 times and as i stated earlier its an interesting theory.
My other post was merely meant as an addendum to yours.
I wasnt being critical at all just adding another concept to the mix.
Me thinks ya need a chill pill.

Ur decribing the possible actions of forgien beings from what you've have learned from the human race. the instinct to survive ect. The thing is, u just don't know enough about any kind of possible ET 2 make the far out judgements that you have. Does it say anywhere that all intelligent life will share close characteristics and instincts as the human race? I repeat, u just don't know enough about any kind of possible ET... noone on earth does.

You can accept, deny it, argue the hell of it... or even try 2 belittle it like you have with just about evryone elses reply's but my point remains the same. There's just not enough information about ET's 2 say that they would kill us all if they existed.

Originally posted by naXaH
@lilblam:
Later u seem to understand my point of view but say it cant be cuz i assume the universe is limited. Well just to let u know the matter in universe IS limited only space is unlimited. There is a limited number of galaxies, stars and generally matter.

But what if there isn't? What if there is no limit to matter/galaxies/universes/dimentions/realities? If you suggest that space itself can be infinite, why should matter not also be?

Again i assume the current stance of the science saying the matter is limited even more it can be measured! In fact it is possible to calculate the mass of the universe.

Perhaps to the extent of our awareness/knowledge. And of course that doesn't account for the possibility of other such universes, other spacial dimentions, other realities, etc.

Your theory rests on the assumption that if any singular entity or group of entities COULD take over the universe, they would! But that does not answer the fundemental question that you're simply taking for granted - CAN they? Why do you simply rule out the possibility that it may be impossible (for one reason or another) to completely take over the entirety of existance?

I think it would help shine some light on your theory if you tried to mentally trace the origins of existance as best as you can do so, using only logic and absolutely no assumptions. When I tried this, I started at the beginning: either the entirety of existance came out of absolute nothingness, or it came from "something", which means something, in some form, has always existed. I have concluded that the latter must be true, because if there had ever been absolute nothingness (total lack of existance of absolutely anything, including space itself - I mean TOTAL "0"), there would ALWAYS be absolutely nothing, and therefore, no existance. Since something exists, I conclude that something has always existed. Absolute nothingness does not have the resource to create anything, since it has nothing! Not even "magic", since magic would be something!

Is it possible to infer more specifics about our reality from this previous conclusion? I think so - although my logic can be faulty without me even realising it, though it's just as possible that the logic is not faulty at all. Anyways, lemme go on. If something had always existed, then I can safely say that absolutely everything that can ever possibly exist had already occured - because it had an eternity to occur, since I've already established that there was no "beginning" to the entirety of existance itself, since a beginning would imply that it came out of nowhere. Obviously if it did not already occur, and it had eternity to do so, then it is IMPOSSIBLE and therefore will never occur - because not occuring for eternity is simply another way to say "can never occur", since eternity is forever.

Is it possible to infer more specifics about our reality from these previous conclusions? I think so, and again, without making any assumptions and using only the conclusions I've logically derived above. If there is no beginning, it means that there is an eternity of "time" behind us in the past. And because it is impossible to ever get through eternity, then it is also impossible to have an eternity of anything behind you, otherwise it would mean that you've already gone through an entire eternity - but an eternity does not end. So my next conclusion is that linear time does not exist either, it is an illusion of our perception only. If time existed, then nothing could exist. Since something exists, time does not. Why could nothing exist? Because the existance of time would imply the impossible - the existance of "eternity" in our past, since we've established that there was no beginning to the universe. But since you cannot have an eternity "in the past", since that would imply it has been traversed, time cannot exist except as a subjective aspect of our current perspective of reality, not as any objective or absolute phenomenon.

Can I infer an even more detailed outlook on objective nature of reality without making any assumptions but using only the logical conclusions I've derived previously and building other mathematical/logical conclusions off of them only? I think so. This also means that everything that can EVER possibly happen or exist, does exist - except that it does not "happen" because "happen" is an aspect of time, and time does not exist. If things appear to happen, it is an illusion of a subjective perspective only - like playing a videotape and observing the movie which does not actually "occur" but already exists on the tape, you're just choosing to "see" it in such a way as to create the illusion of things "happening". This analogy does work, but is clumsy at one point - a tape is finite and predefined, but the fabric of all potential possibilities itself is infinite, and we, using free will, pick and choose how we traverse this infinite potential from our perspective in the illusion.

I'll just stop myself here and say that I think your theory does not apply to the universe, it CAN apply to any finite "universe", to any reality that has a limit and has a beginning of some sort. Perhaps our PHYSICAL universe as we perceive it CAN indeed be governed by your theory, and as such, we may be the only beings in the currently visible physical universe (although there is MUCH evidence to the contrary). However, this does not work for the entirety of existance itself, which, due to having no beginning and being infinite, cannot be fully taken over by a finite being. And an infinite being can only be one thing - the universe itself, since any 2 things that are infinite, are precisely the same thing.

So using a number line analogy, you can take over numbers 1 through 10, but you cannot take over the entire number line no matter how powerful you are. The only way to do that is to be the number line. In infinity there is unity, every aspect of infinity is in fact infinity itself, there is no separation, and the concept of finity or limited amount of "stuff" is an illusion, the only objective reality is One unified infinity, and we are it (I'm still just using pure logic here, not just making this up as assumptions). You cannot subtract from infinity or divide infinity or do anything to it to get any "number". If you have infinity, there are no numbers, they no longer exist, only the infinity. If you start with a finite number, then you cannot reach infinity it is only a potential. Again, there is an unbreachable divide between finity and infinity, you cannot go from one to another, and since the universe has no beginning, there is only the infinity, and finity is an illusion, though it IS reality at our level because our entire reality is based on this illusion at this "time". Of course that does not mean we have to ignore the world around us because of the idea that we may all be "One" - since that only applies to the highest level of reality, the level of the absolute. Until our awareness reaches that level, the existance of the universe will forever contain mysteries and things we do not comprehend or know. But it's always fun to speculate, since speculation is a necessary element to discovery, imho.

Anyways, I can certainly be wrong in anything I said above, any logic I used, etc. But as far as I understand it right now, this is what I think is most probable in terms of the underlying nature of reality. If someone can see any errors, please feel free to correct me and let me know, I always keep an open mind with the intent to learn.

That being said, it's also possible that I'm not wrong! NaXaH does what I said above make sense to you, especially in light of your idea?

[edit on 14-12-2005 by lilblam]

your thinking is fundamentally flawed. It COULD pass under assumption that aliens are humans as well so your theories could apply to them, but since you know nothing about them, its just...well....

next time i see them ill send them over so they give you a good scare

Originally posted by longhaircowboy
seems to me your (naxah) the one not reading and understanding. I have read your original post 3 times and as i stated earlier its an interesting theory.
My other post was merely meant as an addendum to yours.
I wasnt being critical at all just adding another concept to the mix.
Me thinks ya need a chill pill.

I couldn't agree more with longhaircowboy. You are an arguementitive troll naxah. I've been here too long for someone like you to wind me up.

If you want to interject in intelligent arguement, I suggest you stop insulting us and come up with an arguement that holds some water, yours is riddled with holes!

I remember a description of the meaning of eternity.
Lets suppose there is a mountain, and every thousand years a small bird was to fly to the top of the mountain, pick up a small pebble in his beak and place the pebble 10 miles away,eventually the mountain will be gone, but eternity still goes on.
God says he is eternal ,which means he has always been,but i believe there must be a start,a straight line has a beginning as also is a circle,maybe we cannot grasp understanding, because our mind is reasoning,like trying to understand eternity.

Good post naxah, I think I should compliment it..

I personally believe that there is another life form out there. Sometimes I think, how far does the universe stretch? Is it an infinite paticle that has been forever? Or is it a creation of God that is a sphere that he holds in the Palm of his hands? Does he look upon every creature, every creation with a soul? I believe that E.T.'s exist. They are just way ahed of our time, and I do believe that the world has a method of "driving them away" for national security reasons. BUT, I also beleive that there are some on Earth.

Of course the government would not mention anything about it, can you imagine the wrath of the world if they knew aliens landed? The world has some advanced technology that is unknown to the human race as we speak. Plasma TVs are an example, they were used by the military before public use and distribution, what do they have now? 360 degree theatres? Technology evolves as well has humans do. And it is out of our nature to evolve the curiosity of this technology. I am sure that ET's, if not then other races have alot better advanced technology than the Earths beings do.

I wonder sometimes, if I were an ET, what would my lifestyle be like? What would be an everyday thing that I do? Do I have a job? Do I work?

I am sure that there is alot more advanced technology out there that are used for other things rather than UFO's that are used for possibly Earth Recon or ET Military use. What could their lifestyle technology be like? Maybe they have suppliments and DISEASES, and VIRUSES that are so powerful, they would mutilate a human, but only be a cough for an alien. I am guessing that this is how they advance in their medicines.

Cosmic age: People living to 10,000 years is possible. I can believe it becasue stuides show that the average living age for people in the year 2027 is about 130 years old. As you look around, you can see technology arriving. Newer generations have a mind, and the mind is the "wireless human brain link". How can two people (one across the world from the other), be thinking of inventing a traffic light at the same time?

As I say again, good post, and I hope that my reply is supplimental to all.

How would the mountain be gone? Wouldnt it just be another mountain ten miles away?
Lilblam- nice one i'm still thinkin on that one.

Originally posted by longhaircowboy
How would the mountain be gone? Wouldnt it just be another mountain ten miles away?
Lilblam- nice one i'm still thinkin on that one.

Not if the bird flew North ,South,East,West, NW,SW, NE, SE, NNE, NNW, SSE,SSW,lets not do all these angles ,he flew in a 10 mile circle ,NOW where is the mountain???it could be a ridge all the way round where the mountain was, about 10 miles away.

[edit on 14-12-2005 by stmichael]

Any E.t. that is Far advanced that us cannot and will not Be Hostile,
for if they were, they woulden't have got that far.

They would most certainly have Destroyed themselfs.

True Peace, Must be one of the Biggest hurdles for evoloution and is
IMPERATIVE for evoloution,

We as Humans are failing,
Maybe theres a chance we can pull through......Maybe

But as we are, can you honestly think we will still be herein say..500 years?

I think not!

Nature in the truest sence of the word exists....Fact
We are and cannot be a fluke, Nature/Life will start Wherever and when ever it possibly can...Fact

The only Remaining Factor of Importance is Evoloution, and Weather or not it can get past the "Threshold" As I like to call it.

To try to imagine depth of space,I am not highly educated so i am just putting forward a theory.
Look at an atom,(for this explanation we shall call the atom A WHOLE) it has particles flying around,i magine one of these particles was the earth, going around in its orbit, now imagine that atom being a a part of a piece of coal,( a larger WHOLE)being 1,000,000,s of times bigger than the atom,with all these millions of neutrons flying around,now imagine the earth ( an even bigger WHOLE)which is trillions of times larger than the piece of coal.Now look up at the stars and see all those millions of stars.(this is the largest WHOLE),now is there an even bigger WHOLE or WHOLES after these? just a thought.

Here is another thought.
Stars and space, one without the other would be useless, imagine no stars, and only space,you could not judge depth, for one, the light would not reflect back,so all there would be is NOTHING.Now look at it from the other point of view that the space was FULL of stars,so instead of seeing the stars standing out against the black background,it would appear as white light. Our knowledge is limited,our imagination has no end. A bit like eternity.

ok i took a chill pill ^^
So first apologizes to longhaircowboy i read yer posts again and indeed ur nothing to blaim for. Your totally right if u doubt that i proved anything. Ofcourse i cant perfectly PROVE my theory and i didnt.
What i did was constructing a theory which works under several particular assumptions. And since everything can be doubted (accept the doubting and therefor the being of the doubter) u can perfectly doubt my theory and nearly ANYTHING, but then were not going anyfurther in any aspect.
My goal is to work with a scientific aproach, that is making observations and then making conclusions using the "common sense".

@Monkeyz
U actaully have an argument:
How do i know aliens would have same goals as we do?
Simple: We have millions of life forms on earth and they all or nearly all have a strong will to survive otherwise they wouldnt have survived the evolution. It is only natural to take this as a general rule of life. This is what any theory of evolution is saying.

@lilblam
hey i like your way of thinking philosophy is my hobby aswell. But:
If the universe is infinite my theory doesnt make any sense. No questions bout that.
Infinity of space:
There is no reason yet why space should be limited so the science says yes space is infinite.
Infinity of matter:
According to the big bang theory (which is the domintaing universe creation theory) the matter and therefor the number of galaxies, stars and planets is limited.
Infinity of time:
I see the big bang as the point zero, the beginning of time. But before u try to dig here its useless we dont know anything about the point zero yet. An end is not given reasons for.

As u see my theory works perfectly with the following theories:
Common theory of evolution, big bang theory, all scinetificly accepted physical theories of forces.

@brodband:
hey thx for credits pal. You are free to believe whatever u wish, like i mentioned above im trying to make a scientific aproach. And by cosmic age i meant like cosmic amounts of time. For us 100 years is whole lotta time but for the earth its just a moment.

I have just read through all these posts,and realised something very important, this is a clever thread to have got started,and so put forward some wide opinions,Lilblam got me thinking on something he said.Maybe we are looking at this from the wrong direction,we are human, we have 5 senses, and from these senses we make judgements, we also have, mind, imagination. Everything is physical, it starts as an idea ,imagination,written down on paper,make adjustments ,then we have the blueprint,then with the skill and materials it is made into the physical,so with the idea we create. When we are born we are ignorant, knowing nothing only instinct.And yet as we grow we dream ,and our dreams can take us anywhere,we dream with our eyes closed and yet we see,lets suppose we could control our dreams, with the knowledge that we have learnt,will have made us wise, maybe this is the secret that was given to us in the bible, to learn in the physical,so if suited that we would be spiritual,and use the imagination or dreams to go and do whatever is right,the speed of light would not affect us then,afterall the body is only something physical that we drag around. Lets hear what you think.