Why there cant be aliens

In the following meditation about the possibility of extraterranian intelligent life forms i asume that there only are two possibilities in general.
1.There are a lot of inteligent races all over the huge universe.
2.We are the only inteligent life form.

i skip the possibility of having like dozen of races in the WHOLE universe there are just too many star systems out there so it can only be like thousands maybe millions or none. Its a matter of odds.

Well if we look more closely to 1. we will realize that by far the most of these civilizations must be VERY much older then we are, even 10 000 years i consider as VERY MUCH older and this is nothing in means of cosmic ages.
Ok now we have a lot of very old races. What is the differnce between us and them? The aliens have overwhelmingly better technology. It is pretty sure the most have achieved immortality due to medicine, nano technology or something we dont even imagine. Immortality is what all or most life forms will try to achieve due to instinct to survive. Ok now they are immortal what do they want now? Stay alive! So the first and obvious next step is to eliminate all threats. I asume the most will pretty soon eliminate all local threats or migrate to safe stellar systems. So the ONLY remaining threats comes from the outside. For axample an other race equally or superior developed. So what does an immortal nearly omnipotent race? It destroys all threats which means all civilizations which they can get their tentacles on. Alternative scenarios like assimilation, control or friendship are not likely cuz the stronger race will fear a new technology to be invented. Still there might be peacefull races but they will fall to the aggressive ones. Remember in intergallactic race encounters we have a whole other scheme then in wars on earth. We have races having at least thousends years of age difference there is never a fair war. Its always up to the stronger race to erradiate the other one or not. So even a dozen of such aggressive old races would very fast destroy all threats that means all intelligent life forms they can destroy. In fact there only can remain only one race which could lets say in 10 000 years of active world destroying finally rest in peace for ever. I mean even we could destroy alpha centauri withing 100 years from now if there are some savages.
In fact it doesnt even have to be a race but for example an individual controlling automated technology and only wishing eternal life. So only one selfish super techno freak is enough to destroy the universe (all the life). And the fact that we are still alive proves that there is no such freak although there were billions of years for such a freak to come into being.
This only leaves number 2.

Interesting logic!!

Maybe the ETs aren't even corperal beings beings, what then?

Also Human logic don't cut no ice with aliens. When ever they encounter human logic they just laugh and laugh.

Good try though!!

i just think it doesn't matter unless they invade...

its okay if they do or don't exist, because we'll likely never know

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i just think it doesn't matter unless they invade...

its okay if they do or don't exist, because we'll likely never know

Don't think so. Sooner or later there'll be enough unignorable footage out there to turn the world around. Think STS-80.

I just can't justify us being the only race that inhabits the universe... it doesn't seem logical

Besides... you have 2 admit that some of the stories / images that r coming from the public are a little hard 2 simply shrug off...

Haha nonono u dont reply to what i posted u only say your view on the topic the thing is i claim to have PROVEN that there are no aliens so what step of my logical string was wrong?
Haha and u go like "i cant imagine that we are alone". Did u read my argumentation?

Proven? You might want to reread your post. theres no proof of anything there. As you state its a meditation. Nice theory but hardly proof.

LOLOLOL...you've proved that aliens don't exist, eh? Good for you!

Originally posted by naXaH
What is the differnce between us and them? The aliens have overwhelmingly better technology. It is pretty sure the most have achieved immortality due to medicine, nano technology or something we dont even imagine.
Immortality is what all or most life forms will try to achieve due to instinct to survive.

Instinct to survive does not have to override empathy for other beings - although some people will do anything and kill anyone if it means they can live longer, others are not so psychopathic, and will even put their life on the line for others - because of their empathy for other beings, which simply amounts to love of others, not just love of self. In the end, perhaps being alive is not the most important thing to strive for at the cost of all else - well that certainly depends on whom you ask. However, I'd not make the assumption that immortality is more important than all else for all beings.

Ok now they are immortal what do they want now? Stay alive! So the first and obvious next step is to eliminate all threats.

The problem is, EVERYTHING is a potential threat. Everything from uncle Bob to the little stone on the ground to a sharp edge on your desk to your own pencil can be a threat to your life. So if you wish to eliminate all threats, you'd have to eliminate all that exists, since EVERYTHING can be a threat, most especially other beings, including your own mother or brother or friend. So using your own logic, their paranoia would end in their own mutually assured destruction - kinda like humanity is doing to itself right now. The question I'd ask is, can humanity change from a state of fear and paranoia and delusion before we destroy one another? The instinct to survive is the dominant force in animals, but humans have a conscious choice and often commit self sacrifice for others or for a cause the consider greater than their own existance.

I asume the most will pretty soon eliminate all local threats or migrate to safe stellar systems. So the ONLY remaining threats comes from the outside.

Again, not true - as long as there is another being or an object of any kind near you, it is a potential threat. Every individual in their civilization will be a potential threat, and this outlook will prevent their civilization from surviving much longer than the nuclear age - forget about nanotechnology or interstellar drives! Hell, we're lucky we're still alive, considering the abysmal state of humanity and the constant threat of WWIII just around the corner ever since WWII ended.

For axample an other race equally or superior developed. So what does an immortal nearly omnipotent race? It destroys all threats which means all civilizations which they can get their tentacles on.

I guess you mean "potential threats", since if they are nearly omnipotent, then a weak race like us cannot be an immediate threat - but we do have potential to evolve and then challenge them one day, so we should probably be eliminated now as a safety measure. And you know, it is very likely that there are races that are doing just that! You say that this cannot be so because we exist - but that is also assuming that the universe is limited and that you CAN somehow end up dominating or destroying every other race in existance - but what if existance is infinite in scope?

Remember in intergallactic race encounters we have a whole other scheme then in wars on earth. We have races having at least thousends years of age difference there is never a fair war. Its always up to the stronger race to erradiate the other one or not.

Also remember that there is a lot more room to run in space than there is on earth. I know on earth you can say something like "well you can't keep running forever" but in space, maybe you can? Also more room to hide, especially considering the possibility of alternate realities and universes and dimentions and any other such things we did not yet even conceive of. Also, technology does not have to scale linearly - certain beings and their technology can be both very highly involved and yet entirely foreign to one another. One can use spaceships, wormholes, and lasers - another may be using some electromagnetic quantum fields and exist on some other level of reality that the previously mentioned race is not even aware of. Kinda like humans are not yet aware of the many creatures that live at the bottom of our oceans, since we do not have the technology to get that far yet, but those creatures have a "natural" technology to easily exist there. So imagine a similar sort of dynamic in a cosmic sense.

So only one selfish super techno freak is enough to destroy the universe (all the life).

Again, assuming there is a limit to the universe. If the universe is a giant petri dish of organisms, sure why not. But what if it is limitless and eternal? Then you can spend an eternity killing everything in sight and still have an eternity to go. And of course you can't forget the possibility of non-physical reality and such things as souls and such, so perhaps an advanced race has advanced to the point of having no need for a physical vehicle, and can learn to exist as pure energy, indestructable and eternal? So while a techno freak can certainly be bent on universe-domination, it doesn't mean there there even exists the possibility of dominating the entirety of all that exists. That's still a question!

And the fact that we are still alive proves that there is no such freak although there were billions of years for such a freak to come into being.
This only leaves number 2.

That's only assuming that the universe is limited in scope and therefore conquerable. In my understanding, it's neither. And by universe I don't necessarily mean "our universe", I just mean all that exists.

Consider this logic: If we really were the only race in existance, why did nothing else exist for an infinity of time before we came into being?

For example, assuming you are correct and a super powerful race dominated all others, how long ago do you think this should've occured? And what happened before and afterwards, and for how long? You say they had billions of years to do this, but why only billions? What happened before that, absolute nothingness?

[edit on 12-12-2005 by lilblam]

there is a certain fallacy about technology that assume an alien civilization "should" prgress through the same technologocal steps that man has achieved.

But that thinking is very much in error.

What if this "alien" civilization never thought about splitting an atom. They would have never created a "nuclear" bomb. What if instead of researching how to split one, they focused on how to manipulate one, how to change an atom into something else and then how to control a bunch of those something's else to combine and stay together. And then once they acheived that maybe they developed how to not only make more of them to stay together but also how to break them apart in order and then re-order them or change them again entirely.

Maybe instead of inventing the light emitting phosperous wire, (Edison) they jumped ahead and discovered how to get light to emit from a crystaline structure (LED)

Maybe they found the principals of magentics to be much more facinating and safe then "electricity" and focused on how to manipulate magnectic forces to 100% efficency. Since the properties of a magnetized object seemed to defy gravity maybe they researched it fully instead of using it as a toy only to discover its ability to modify "electricty" 100 years later (or more).

To assume that just because mankind has developed technology in a specific order does not mean other civilization had to follow along on the same time line.

Maybe the whole reason the "ufo's" were so interested in "nuclear" sites is because it represented a new technology to them. Some things are so simple and are right before our eyes but we are unable to "see" them because we are locked into one prespective of how the world operates based on what were told by other people who were told the same.

Advances only come to those who are willing to forget the past and open themselves to being able to "see" the world from a different perspective.

Here's my thinking. I heard almost the same argument today from the big guy with half his brain tied behind his back. He was saying that some NASA scientist calculated the numbers and it was unlikely there were other worlds out there like earth. That would make the person who posted the original post a "seminar caller" to you the phrase of the big guy with half his brain tied behind his back. Must be some sort of effort to discredit us ufo believers.

What are you talking about. we are the only itlegent life forms in the universe. Sorry that wrong. If vireses can mutiply and creat new kinds of them then there can be more life like use. NO matter what life will find a way to survive even in the hashes conditions. just because they dont have a brain that dose not mean that there are other means of the mind. we are like a small black dot on the wall. Just thnk that we used to be apes that didnt know how to make fire or the wheel so all life has to start some where.

we only know 1 of 10000000000000000000000000000000000 of the univers so there has to be some thing in the 99999999999999999999999999999999 of the rest.

Originally posted by naXaH
Haha nonono u dont reply to what i posted u only say your view on the topic the thing is i claim to have PROVEN that there are no aliens so what step of my logical string was wrong?
Haha and u go like "i cant imagine that we are alone". Did u read my argumentation?

I read your arguement and its as best, extremely weak and illogical.

Simply because superior technological aliens have not invaded us does not mean they dont exist. Ever think such superior tech might also involve superior spiritual evolution?

Ever also consider that even if an alien race was hostile, that a bunch of primitive homosapiens would probably not even be worth the effort?

The only problem I have with aliens is I aint seen one yet. And I dont think it likely I will. It seems logical to me that an advanced race would send unmanned probes rather than manned. Its cheaper(cost effective) and less risky. I would imagine that in any world that would hold true. Wait dont whip out those poison pens yet. Picture the odds that they would have the same atmosphere we do. Shoot we cant even find a planet or moon in our own solar system where we wouldnt have to tote our own air with us. How long can you breath under water? Not sayin they aint out there just considerin all the possibilities.

Well if you rest your entire argument on the assumption of what (in your opinion) all aliens WOULD certainly do if they existed, and then conclude that since they didn't do it they do not exist, it means you just accepted your own underlying assumption as a "given truth" without question, and as such, completely undermine your own argument and turn it into utter nonsense.

I can prove trees do not exist with the same logic. If trees were real, because of their constant need for water and nutrients, they'd suck all the water and nutrients out of the earth and as a result kill all other plants and animals on the planet that need that water and those nutrients to live. Since there is still water and nutrients in the earth and there are tons of plants and animals that use both, it means that trees do not exist. There, I proved that trees do not exist! Or did I?

Both arguments not only make assumptions, but also fail to account for many fundemental realities of nature and how things truly work and why. But all it means is that you have come up with a possibility of how things MIGHT work, and just because you convinced yourself that it is the only possible way they could possibly work or else they cannot exist, does not make it so!

[edit on 13-12-2005 by lilblam]

I'am 50/50 on this.

Yes
1) It's ignorant to think we're the only race in the universe
2) Everyone who has seen/ been abducted ALL can't be lying
3) Millions of years on earth and people from all generations/walks of life have had an experience/encounters.

Maybe?
1) You'd have to take into consideration if they do infact breathe air and would be able to thrive and function in our gravity/echo system/weather.
2) Would they be amune, or be able to deal with our diseases, colds, germs, heat, cold, rain, or any form of Earth life.
3) If they do come to earth, why not make a grand entrance, if they're millions of years beyond us. I'm sure they could take us out if we became hostile.
4) Why in the world would a higher inteligence sneak around?

In order to become a space traveling sivilization the people have to have spesific ways of nature. They must be curious. They must be able to think theyr way to solutions of problems. They must wonder what the bright lights on the sky are, why some are brighter than others. They must be social in some ways; anti-social behaviour prevents towns wich are neccesary for advanced thecnology. They must have matematics or else thay can't calculate neccesary power for their inventions. They must be able to plan ahead and thus understand time; past present future. It is unlikely that a sivilization who is only interested in day-to-day life ever will develope beyond a basic farmer-type communities.
All this is logical minimum requirements and the only proof we have at the moment is ourselfs... and aliens of course!

Originally posted by Nouvelle
4) Why in the world would a higher inteligence sneak around?

We know from experience (history); more technically advanced sivilizations crush the civilizations of less developed ones, as when expanding Europeans discovered and moved into africa, asia and america. So a more advanced alien sivilization that don't want to crush ours HAVE to stay away if they don't want to do harm. This is Love.


[edit on 13-12-2005 by Ghaele]

[edit on 13-12-2005 by Ghaele]

correct me if i'm wrong, it's a bit early in the morning for this so forgive me, your theory is : aliens cant exist simply becouse we exist? there cant be life in the universe becouse if there was, they would have destroyed us, is this your argument/theory?

Yes, we know that from OUR history. We don't know their history. We don't know anything about their history and how they conduct war, even if they do/ have had a war. they could be peaceful, or hostile. Who knows.

Originally posted by Ghaele

We know from experience (history); more technically advanced sivilizations crush the civilizations of less developed ones, as when expanding Europeans discovered and moved into africa, asia and america. So a more advanced alien sivilization that don't want to crush ours HAVE to stay away if they don't want to do harm. This is Love.

[edit on 12/12/05 by Nouvelle]

Even if what happened on this planet was a one in a trillion chance of happening. A one in a trillion chance of the right gasses mixing with the right molecules etc to cause life......Space, as far as we know, is infinate. Therefore there are infinate chances of intelligent life.

Of course, that's just my opinion.