WAR: Israel Prepares Troops for Attack on Iran

Hmm Not only in the region,. do you feel that arabs living in the west are not seething? When that happens they will repel.Note, I don't think it will rally all Muslims, Note most of the muslims that are engage in the infighting with the west are Sunnis. The majority of those in Iran are #ies, So it might be a whole diffrent stroke, Currently the arabs want to gain back their pride. It's not only religious but nationalism being thrown in the fray here.

Originally posted by crusader
Hmm Not only in the region,. do you feel that arabs living in the west are not seething? When that happens they will repel.Note, I don't think it will rally all Muslims, Note most of the muslims that are engage in the infighting with the west are Sunnis. The majority of those in Iran are #ies, So it might be a whole diffrent stroke, Currently the arabs want to gain back their pride. It's not only religious but nationalism being thrown in the fray here.

My post was titled 2006 World War because it will eventually spread worldwide. You bring up an excellent point about Arabs in the Western nations rebelling. This in my opinion is the X factor for the institution of Martial Law especially in America in order to contain "domestic terrorism".

I don't know why you do not think that the Arab world will not rally together to fight what is obviously a nation by nation move to conquer the Middle East. Sunni or #ie will not matter if all Arabs feel equally threatened by what is happening to them. I don't think the Arabs want to regain their pride as much as regain land lost to the West or regained by the West (depending on your historical bias).

While nationalism is one of the strongest motivators for fighting, religion is inherently even more encompassing because it not only includes nationalism but binds several nations of religious compatibility together to form an alliance. This is why America is a Judaeo-Christian nation. We share shared values and traditions with countries like England, France, Germany (sans 1939-1945) and Israel. This is also why the world's last superpower will come to the aid of a smaller than Rhode Island sized nation because of shared values. This is also the same reason why Arabs in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and other nations would unite in order to defend against Western power.

Right, but don't you think, as many feel on ats, that they will not come after you, after they are finished with the arabs or muslims, don't they think they will come after the so call christians after, hmm much ado nothing, Bush, will not be able to hold the onslaught, neither will isreal, be able to, thye need to think of the citizens abroad, and their intrest in the world, one tiny nation, and america is their only friend.

Originally posted by crusader
....one tiny nation, and america is their only friend.

Might want to throw India into that equation.



seekerof

Might want to throw India into that equation.

I think they have lost india's support for that one.BTW, China?

Crusader, I am not sure what you mean but I will try to answer anyway. I DO believe they will come for everyone sooner or later. Arabs/Muslims are just the first. Same thing with the Nazis. First they came for the Jews but I wasn't a Jew so I didn't speak up, then they came for the Catholics, etc etc....

I adhere to this belief regarding the third world war. It is similar and influenced by what Albert Pike said in the late 19th century. Political Zionism and Islam will mutually destroy each other taking much of the civilized world with them. All three major religions will utterly destroy each other to the point that all will be discarded and discredited in order to ensure that another senseless war does not happen. Billions will be lost...

Originally posted by RebelSaint
Crusader, I am not sure what you mean but I will try to answer anyway. I DO believe they will come for everyone sooner or later. Arabs/Muslims are just the first. Same thing with the Nazis. First they came for the Jews but I wasn't a Jew so I didn't speak up, then they came for the Catholics, etc etc....

I adhere to this belief regarding the third world war. It is similar and influenced by what Albert Pike said in the late 19th century. Political Zionism and Islam will mutually destroy each other taking much of the civilized world with them. All three major religions will utterly destroy each other to the point that all will be discarded and discredited in order to ensure that another senseless war does not happen. Billions will be lost...

Naturally, there was a time in my life, I wanted to be so gloomy, but at this time, i don't think it is, so Do you think the future is cast in stone? No it's not, do you think a Mighty supreme God will allow such nonsense to continue?

Originally posted by crusader

Originally posted by RebelSaint
Crusader, I am not sure what you mean but I will try to answer anyway. I DO believe they will come for everyone sooner or later. Arabs/Muslims are just the first. Same thing with the Nazis. First they came for the Jews but I wasn't a Jew so I didn't speak up, then they came for the Catholics, etc etc....

I adhere to this belief regarding the third world war. It is similar and influenced by what Albert Pike said in the late 19th century. Political Zionism and Islam will mutually destroy each other taking much of the civilized world with them. All three major religions will utterly destroy each other to the point that all will be discarded and discredited in order to ensure that another senseless war does not happen. Billions will be lost...

Naturally, there was a time in my life, I wanted to be so gloomy, but at this time, i don't think it is, so Do you think the future is cast in stone? No it's not, do you think a Mighty supreme God will allow such nonsense to continue?

The future is in our hands. However, look around you and take a good hard look at what is happening in the world. Can you not see where this is headed? I believe in God but I do not know his plans. No one does and it is foolish to think anyone could interpret God's plans. With that said, this nonsense continues because men will it so.

Originally posted by ncbrian211
People think about this.... Russia, a country that is hurting for money has close buisness ties with Iran, who is supplying Russia with income. So Russia is just going to sit back as Israel destroys one of Russias buisness deals.

The balance is tipped a bit against Iran though. Neither America nor Russia is likely willing to take this to the next level; they might each be willing to fight a small skirmish in the air, maybe a few SF encounters against one another, but they both know that America stands a strong chance of winning in such a scenario.
So the question for Russia is, are they willing to gamble on a bluff by putting more forces in Iran than they are actually willing to engage in a fight with America, and hope that America blinks first?

I think America would blink if we had to, but if it were possible to get the job done in the air without actually harming too many Russians, we'd do it, and Russia would just be in a pretty pickle- they'd either have to back down before somebody gets hurt or go a lot farther than they ever intended to go.

Even if America isn't directly involved, will Russia go to the mat with Israel and risk either A. being forced into an all-out invasion of Iraq if the Arabs can't do it. B. getting into a nuclear confrontation with Israel.

At the end of the day I think it comes down to Russia's confidence in its airpower and air defenses, and their willingness to up the ante as far as is needed to pull out a victory if they should get their nose bloodied at first.


Edit to add: I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves envisioning a world war over Iran.

There will of course be reactions, but I suspect they will be subtle ones for the most part- well at least subtle compared to the kind of scenario which a doomsayer might predict.

The worst imaginable scenario would of course be that Russia and the EU head a UN movement to remove America and Great Britain from the Security Council and vote to intervene- All American bases in Europe are quarantined, Russia uses the attack as an excuse to occupy the Caucuses while moving South to reinforce Iran, India declares neutrality, Pakistan suffers a coup, China gets permission to send forces through Tajikistan and Northern Pakistan to Afghanistan and on to Iran, and in exchange for this assisstance gets the new Security Council's blessing for an invasion of Taiwan, and the US will be looking at options for to start the whole thing fresh with a landing at Vladivostok before you can say "Tom Clancy"- then we all die in a nuclear holocaust.

None of that's gonna happen.

Assuming that Russia only commits to a minor skirmish and loses to Israel alone, the Arabs and the Persians will turn off the oil tap and demand a UN mandate removing US troops from Iraq and replacing them with a primarily Middle-Eastern separating force in Iraq to keep Israel away from Iran. It may happen, it may not- depends on how many votes they can command in the general assembly for threatening a shakeup of the Security Council in the event of a veto.

Russia will move forces and aircraft to Syria and issue some retribution, nuclear threats will be exchanged, people are going to realize that it's not an idle threat anymore and start making compromises. Israel may push away from the table and concede at this point if they feel they've done enough damage to the Iranian program.

[edit on 12-12-2005 by The Vagabond]

Originally posted by ncbrian211
People think about this.... Russia, a country that is hurting for money has close buisness ties with Iran, who is supplying Russia with income. So Russia is just going to sit back as Israel destroys one of Russias buisness deals.

Furthermore, consider that Iraq was in the same position that Iran is in that Russia was the major supplier of military hardware, among numerous business deals to/in Iraq. Russia did not interfere, other than to possibly move out (speculative) Iraqi WMDs or show Saddam how to 'hide' or dispose of them...





seekerof

Originally posted by crusader
....do you think a Mighty supreme God will allow such nonsense to continue?

Ever read Primo Levi's Survival in Auschwitz?
A question was raised that still goes unanswered today:
'Where was God during the Holocaust?'
Did God and/or Man allow the Holocaust to happen?





seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
A question was raised that still goes unanswered today:
'Where was God during the Holocaust?'
Did God and/or Man allow the Holocaust to happen?
seekerof

I blame man, and not just because I'm not completely convinced of God's existence. The same reason/excuse (depending on how you believe on the subject of God) has always been relied upon when Israel loses a war- they offended God.
So regardless of how we feel about God, I think we can mostly agree that the irrational, short-sighted, emotional, or corrupt decisions on the part of humans are generally responsible for wars.
God's role, if there is a God and thus a role for him to fill, is simply that of standing by and letting us reap the whirlwind to the extent that we can sustain, and perhaps giving us a miracle here and there to see that we live long enough to learn from our mistakes.

It's the same thing fathers in may family have done for 3 generations; you get one warning "I wouldn't do that if I was you hoss"- you do it, you are allowed to suffer whatever you bring down on yourself, and if you get in danger of death or crippling injury, only then does dad pull your butt out of the fire.

Thanks, The Vagabond.
Consider crusader's question answered then?

Originally posted by crusader
....do you think a Mighty supreme God will allow such nonsense to continue?

seekerof

[edit on 12-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Hmm, Listen to this, we really have underestimqated countries like Russia against the Usa because we only see a one sided view ala reports from the Cia, and the council on foreign relations, have america ever been with a war with any of the big powers except Japan(it's has no military) in recent times? the answer is a big emphatic NO! there goes our theory on America and Isreal Prowess.

Seeker:

Your underestimation of Israel stands in stark contrast to your sureness of Iran's military prowess. On a one-on-one basis, no outside Arab or Western assistance, no nukes, let's not place bets cause you might be unpleasantly surprised...

Pfft. It's not 1948 anymore. If Israel dared to attack Iran, they would be crushed. The USA would be forced to withdraw support from them, and without US support, they would no longer get the best military hardware for free.

As soon as Israel drops a nuclear weapon, the world would unite against them. Maybe not militarily, but economically. No more trading partners = no more Israel.

I mean, look at the world now. I would say three-quarters of the world is sick and tired of Israel's "victim complex".

How can you be a victim when you have been militarily oppressing another country for more than 30 years? With a vastly superior military and economy. Israel stopped being the victim a long time ago, now they are the aggressors. This threat to Iran is further proof.

Without blind USA support, Israel would NEVER be where they are now, and that, my friend, is a fact. So if they do something to lose that support, it's over.


jako



[edit on 13-12-2005 by Jakomo]

Interesting view jakomo.

1) It's actually Iran tossing around the threats not Israel. All Israel has done in this scenario is mobilize its own troops on its own soil to prepare for the worst, which mind you was publicly stated by the leader of Iran.

2) After seeing your last post about how impotent and powerless Israel is, I'm rather surprised at how much time you spend focused on them and their evildoings. It's actually very fascinating.

Djarums: My point is that the world would not stand by and watch Israel use a nuclear weapon.

And since they would not be able to effectively attack Iran with conventional weapons (a ground war), that's all they could use. Iran would have plenty more local allies than Israel would.

After seeing your last post about how impotent and powerless Israel is, I'm rather surprised at how much time you spend focused on them and their evildoings. It's actually very fascinating.

I find it fascinating too, that they get so much military hardware from the US and mostly they just use it to oppress a people with no army and no defenses, the Palestinians. They use helicopters to fire missiles at old men in wheelchairs in crowded streets. They use high-powered rifles to blow holes in little 13 year old girls...

And yet somehow they are still victims? Haha. It's just surreal.


Jakomo

The problem with Israel has always been that it will do what it wants, when it wants.

And America WILL follow.

Originally posted by Jakomo

Pfft. It's not 1948 anymore. If Israel dared to attack Iran, they would be crushed. The USA would be forced to withdraw support from them, and without US support, they would no longer get the best military hardware for free.

It may not be 1948 and the Muslim nations military power has changed and grow but that dont mean that Israel just kept the old equipment that helped them win the previous wars against the Muslim nations in the first place. Israel as also advanced and kept the quality of their weaponry to help compensate for the disadvantage of being outnumber.

As soon as Israel drops a nuclear weapon, the world would unite against them. Maybe not militarily, but economically. No more trading partners = no more Israel.

You cant be certain that Israel would drop the bomb first. Maybe Iran if they get their own since they have pursue their dream of wiping Israel off the map.

How can you be a victim when you have been militarily oppressing another country for more than 30 years? With a vastly superior military and economy. Israel stopped being the victim a long time ago, now they are the aggressors. This threat to Iran is further proof.

Threat to Iran? Israel has yet to attack Iran, while Iran has been supporting terrorist groups to attack Israel.

Without blind USA support, Israel would NEVER be where they are now, and that, my friend, is a fact. So if they do something to lose that support, it's over.

Even without the U.S. Israel has the ability to adapt. Look at South Africa.

"We pilots of the air force, flying in the skies above the camp of horrors,

arose from the ashes of the millions of victims and shoulder their silent cries,

we salute their courage and promise to be the shield of the Jewish people

and its nation: Israel."

(source)





....Anybody out there who really thinks Israel will not not act to at least try his hardest to prevent another Holocaust?