Exactly who will dwell in the pits of the Christian hell?

Originally posted by Sight2reality

Originally posted by queenannie38
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And I've got plenty of scriptures to back that up, if anyone wants to go a round or two.

Good thing 'hell' is just a man-made fantasy, in the form we've been given as 'truth.'

Why in the world would I hold scripture with any credibility whatsoever to prove or disprove the existence of a god, existence of heaven or hell, or the validity of any given religion?

I have no idea--all I can say is that, obviously, for you, it is 'N/A.' Not applicable. And I mean that with the sincerest intent of peace and goodwill.

It's kind of a 'little bunny foo-foo' thing: if you know about the field mice but don't pop 'em on the head, then I'm not your good fairy.

Dig?

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by truthseeka
You have the nerve to tell me that I am separated from God because I'm not a Christian?

You are seperated from God because of your sin and the sins you've done. Just like I was and others.

I'm quite certain you still "sin". You believe you have the truth about god, yet you can't seem to comprehend that others feel the same way, yet they don't believe the same thing you do. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, pagans, and even philosophers all experience "god" too, and many attribute the "personal experience" to god just like you do, yet have incompatible beliefs.

If you will not accept the testimnoy of those who have sampled multiple ways, that they all provide a similar personal experience, then how can you expect anyone else to accept your personal experience as anything interesting?

Originally posted by spamandham
I'm quite certain you still "sin".

Yes I do, but I have been forgiven in Christ. In a growing relationship with the Holy Spirit living in me, sinning is less in frequency and intensity.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by spamandham
I'm quite certain you still "sin".

Yes I do, but I have been forgiven in Christ. In a growing relationship with the Holy Spirit living in me, sinning is less in frequency and intensity.

How so?

I think I'll have to agree with Truthseeka's point of view on this, but will go further:

I simply won't accept a God that would punish a non-believer. The whole concept of "free will" (a whole 'nother topic, I know) is a farce, imho.

I guess I'm going to hell, then. Stop by, I'll be the one by the fireplace, wearing a turtleneck and having a cup of coffee.

Originally posted by Katolu
I think I'll have to agree with Truthseeka's point of view on this, but will go further:

I simply won't accept a God that would punish a non-believer. The whole concept of "free will" (a whole 'nother topic, I know) is a farce, imho.

I guess I'm going to hell, then. Stop by, I'll be the one by the fireplace, wearing a turtleneck and having a cup of coffee.

You stated the concept of free will is a farce in your own opinion. Why is that? I whole heartedly disagree with you. However, (and I dont know your religious affiliation) a person with this belief can be a christian and honest with themselves at the same time.

In other words, though it is misguided, believeing that you do not have free will makes it possible to not be a hypocrit christians. Because the christains that believe in free will.....are all hypocrits.

how can you not believe in god greatest gift next to life ......freewill????
many people will try to take this from you but its truly not theres to take....
remember nazi germany ..they had no freewill , they were basically born with a nazi handbook in there hands......god still gives you the freewill to chose....according to the bible your choices might not be great , but you still have a choice.........

So...

I get warned because I say someone's arrogant, and the person still says the same arrogant thing? This place is a joke sometimes...:shk:

Originally posted by Sight2reality
In other words, though it is misguided, believeing that you do not have free will makes it possible to not be a hypocrit christians. Because the christains that believe in free will.....are all hypocrits.

How does a belief in 'free will' render a person a hypocrite? Professed christian or otherwise?

To profess free will yet not act upon it might be considered hypcritical, but of the personally damaging sort--so perhaps that's not true hypocrisy. To proclaim the free will of another yet to deny and prevent the free decisions and actions of that person is also hypocritical.

Where in the bible do you find support for a christian 'free will' doctrine/theology? ---As regarding of your statement that it is a misguided christian who does not subscribe to the idea of free will?

Originally posted by truthseeka
So...

I get warned because I say someone's arrogant, and the person still says the same arrogant thing? This place is a joke sometimes...:shk:

Life in general, is a joke--more often than not...

Let's all laugh on the count of three.

one...two...three


Well, did you laugh?

Originally posted by Katolu
I simply won't accept a God that would punish a non-believer.

Why? Because it implies that god doesn't conform to human standards of decency and morality? But why should it? Abraham has a son, and god demmands that that son be murdered on a table with a knife. Thats inhuman. Abraham is fully prepared to do it, and this is considered a good thing. Right from the get go we're talking about a being beyond human concepts of right-wrong.

Some people believe in pixies, some people believe in fairies, some people believe in the 'tales/tails' of 'fairies.'

I believe everyone's right and we can co-exist.

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by dbrandt


Yes I do, but I have been forgiven in Christ. In a growing relationship with the Holy Spirit living in me, sinning is less in frequency and intensity.

How so?

When I trusted Christ as Savior The Holy Spirit indwelt me and brought my dead spirit back to life so that I can understand the things of God. So I can relate to God on a personal level, even so that I can once again have the desire to even want to know God. Now I accepted Christ at age 8 but didn't really listen to Him until 28 and it's through an experience then, that God became real to me. He's not just and idea or a force but He is a real being seperate from me, yet He lives in those who place their faith in Christ.

So for 20 years while God was working in my life I didn't really understand who He is or let Him by my boss(and didn't think I needed to or want too), it was sort of the other way around, and in reality a person cannot boss God around because He is not a "force" that we manipulate. We don't use Him, He uses us. He is distinct from us.

So for 20 years while there was a relationship starting, it began rapid growth when I heard from Him for the first time(not audibly) but audibly inside, and felt and recognized that He alone is God and I am not and He is REAL.

So when I began a daily, intense reading of the Bible which slowed down into a daily reading of of smaller portions and following a devotional, I learned about who God is and what He desires and yes, expects of a person who claims to be saved and know Him, so that I can grow to not be a hypocrite.

So that along with church attendance(Evangelical Free Church) and Bible studies and leadership roles on church committees, boards and groups, where responsibilty is learned put into use and you are expected to practice what you preach, growth in the relationship God wants with each person starts and grows. Plus just the idea that since God lives in me, I am never seperated from Him. If He lives in me, every moment of my life, then all moments are important and He is up to something in my life at every moment.

So along with knowing what God desires of me and with The Holy Spirit(God Himself) living in me(literally) I can become sensitive to what is right and wrong, because He lets me know. He changes me into what He wants me to be and what I would want to be if I knew what He knew.

God is the one calling and changing and enabling to change. But I do have a part in this. I can choose to listen to Him or ignore Him(that will affect the rate of growth and the closeness of the relationship and even rewards and blessings and missed opportunities), to let Him work in me or fight and disobey. Sinning becomes less in frequency and intensity because I am connected to Him through the Holy Spirit. That enables me to hear Him. My spirit is open to His leading and what He says is right and wrong.

Will I, or any christian be sinless this side of heaven? No, because we still battle our flesh and satan and the "world" and it's temptations. But God has forgiven these future sins along with the past ones when I accepted Christ. Now I need to acknowledge these sins as soon after they happen as I can because that means I agree with God, that it was sin, and that also changes me. My thinking is renewed by God. But someday at my physical death or His return I will be changed so that I can't sin.

Now one really important thing is He loves others as much as me. I am not singled out for this, ANYBODY can come to God, but make no mistake it is through Jesus Christ that we come to Him.

The same God who lives in me can at the same time live in billions of other people also. That's how He is a personal Savior, because He has the ability to do this.

Originally posted by truthseeka
It's a funny thing when you ask Christians about hell.

Who will dwell there. Ones we know for sure are satan and his angels and the beast and the false prophet. Probably Cain and Judas Iscariot.

Then we read Revelation
20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Originally posted by plague
i dont know about you guys but i talk to god alot ...and he answers ....in fact i have felt the presence of god on more than one occasion ...in fact on one occasion he saved my life......
i claim no one certain religion, and i especially do not claim christianity.....none the less i am not with out god........so please do not think because you read in a book that we are seperated from god because of this and that , that it is truth because it is not........god is always with you ..you just have to love enough to hear em....

Thanks, plague, precisely my point.

Though dbrandt never addressed the issues of dead babies, retarded people, etc., he was so quick to call me godless. What a nice guy!

Anyway, Nygdan had a good point; he/she said that, by definition, the Christian god is the ultimate good, so anything he does is good. Even if to us mere mortals it seems atrocious, like the Abraham butchering his son thing, it's good. Of course, I don't buy into the whole thing, but hey, that's just me.

Well, dbrandt, how about those other godless individuals?

Originally posted by dbrandt
Then we read Revelation
20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Why do you equate the lake of fire with hell?

Considering that hell is cast into the lake of fire in Rev 20:14, it doesn't make sense to equate the lake of fire with hell. The Bible certainly never equates them, so you are not on solid ground (from your perspective) with such a presumption.

Originally posted by plague
how can you not believe in god greatest gift next to life ......freewill????
many people will try to take this from you but its truly not theres to take....
remember nazi germany ..they had no freewill , they were basically born with a nazi handbook in there hands......god still gives you the freewill to chose....according to the bible your choices might not be great , but you still have a choice.........

If you believe that God gives us free will, then why is it so hard to comprehend that many of us choose not to believe in Him?

--Kit.

Hell Is What You Make It

Since the only real foundation for answering this topic seems to be opinion, here's mine based on my own studies and meditations.

The occupants of Christian Hell are Christians who think they belong there. And there's more than one of them, because different kinds of Christians believe in different kinds of hells, just as they believe in different kinds of heavens.

Compare and contrast the notions and doctrines of Baptists, Mormons, Catholics and Copts. All Christians, and all in disagreement on some very fundamental things.

Christians who cannot get along on earth can't get along in heaven, either. That's why there are different heavens, because being forced to live with those who don't agree with them would be pure hell for most Christians.

Likewise, different kinds of Christians conceive of different kinds of hells, and banish themselves to them if they deem themselves unfit for heaven.

That turns out to be a surprisingly large percentage of Christians.

The principle is really quite simple: those who embrace hatred and fear go to a place of hatred and fear when they die. Those who embrace compassion and love go to a place of compassion and love when they die.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Dark Heaven

For my part, an eternity with a “wrathful god” whose behavior is indistinguishable from the most rabid of demon princes would be hell.

Those who worship such deities exalted by doctrines of fear will get what they desire most: servitude to a god of darkness.

Demons are the spirits who populate all hells, regardless of denomination, and many of them call themselves “Christians”. Some call themselves “God”.

Matthew 7
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Labels are meaningless. Love and light mark the way to heaven, fear and darkness mark the path to hell.

Those who vainly presume to condemn others to hell condemn only themselves.

There is always hope. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar who speaks the gospel of demons.

Those who refuse to give up hope when all seems lost are those who will be saved by it.

I pray that no one who reads this will ever forget that.

Originally posted by Kitsunegari
If you believe that God gives us free will, then why is it so hard to comprehend that many of us choose not to believe in Him?

--Kit.

Such beautiful and succint wisdom!

Obviously your 'rejection' of churchianity is not due to some sort of mental deficiency or lack of common sense. You do not seem pathogical or self-destructive.

Perhaps the flaw lies elsewhere, since you do not seem to be the source, and I can assure you the Living God (will the real God please stand up) who is the creator of all life is definitely not the source (I speak from the perspective of one who has experienced personal verification) since He is all the good things
many say without any of the bad things...

Originally posted by truthseeka
Though dbrandt never addressed the issues of dead babies, retarded people, etc., he was so quick to call me godless. What a nice guy!

Well, dbrandt, how about those other godless individuals?

There is alot of information here to read for those who want to.
gotquestions.org...

As far as you being godless, There was no intention from me to offend you. I am gathering from your posts that you do not believe in Jesus Christ as the only way for your sins to be forgiven.