Where would the world be without the US?

Originally posted by pepsi78
What bothers me is that i have to go live there , my wife is american and my hole family is there so i have no choise do i.

I belive you people are too confortable and that is u'r only mistake has regular citisens other things i can not acuse you of and i dont, but i do have a very big disgust for the curent administration that is runing that country, but what the heck who cares since this thing moves sllow it will probaly afect my kids and not my self.
What do i care has a future us citisen i will just become like you confortable
and acomodate my self in front of the tv sinking in my sleep.

I give you 2 years here and then lets see how you feel. Too comfortable? I would say i am very comfortable and it is a good feeling. Can't wait till you become a citizen and vote. Welcome to the USA my opinionated euro friend. One word of advice, live someplace warm

LostSailor:

Fact is most of the homeless in this country "choose" to live that way.

Wow are you for real? Are there really people like you out there who think things like that?

Unlike in Cuba where it is... "you do this job" or you are labeled a dissident. We all know what happens to a dissident in communist Cuba right?

No, what happens to a dissident in Cuba? I assume you ask because you know. Does Cuba have the death penalty?

What happens to a dissident in America? Does America have the death penalty?


The problem with this thread:

To honestly judge America, you just have to look at the rest of the world and how it sees America. Americans mostly CANNOT look at themselves objectively. It's "Rah Rah U-S-A U-S-A" and other foolish empty chants. Maybe some flagwaving and fireworks, yay! But you just need to look at the facts:

Your country is probably the least educated country in the developed world.

Your country has one of the widest gaps between rich and poor.

Your country still puts to death the mentally handicapped and minors.

Your country has a larger percentage of its population BEHIND BARS than any other country including communist China and Russia.

Your country's largest health threat is OBESITY and the diseases that accompany it because you overconsume.

Your country is the largest polluter in the world (soon to be overtaken by China, so congrats).

Your country is responsible for overthrowing far more countries than it has helped, and it is responsible for slaughtering far more civilians than it has saved.

Your country's citizens are most definitely the least traveled and world-savvy of all the Western countries, including all of South and Central America (3rd world countries most of em).

Your country is probably one of the most hated in the world, mostly because of your stupid cowboy President, but also because people can't BELIEVE that you RE-ELECTED your stupid cowboy President.

Real patriots look at the problems in their country, accept them, and try to fix them. America did not come about because of yes-men. It came about through struggle. It was created by men who were trying to get people to NOT TRUST their government.

Fake patriots say things to each other like "I am proud to call you a fellow American" based on nothing other than a vague commonality. However, if these two people met on a bus, and one of them was non-white, there would most likely be a totally different dynamic. (Am I implying many Americans are racist? Why, yes, yes I am.)

So there's my reality. If yours' is that the USA is the best thing to ever happen to the world, then that's good for you. But don't ever expect to mention that to 98% of the rest of the world without them falling over laughing.

98% of the rest of the world cannot be wrong.


BUT let me qualify this. I have met thousands of Americans over the years and I can honestly say that I liked and respected 99% of them. You cannot blame individuals for the actions of their government.




[edit on 14-12-2005 by Jakomo]

Originally posted by zoso28
I give you 2 years here and then lets see how you feel. Too comfortable? I would say i am very comfortable and it is a good feeling. Can't wait till you become a citizen and vote. Welcome to the USA my opinionated euro friend. One word of advice, live someplace warm

Comfort of materialism leads to ignorance and ignorance of the people leads to the fall of a nation.

Where would the world be without USA?
- I honestly don't know, way too much factors to calculate. You see, the present day is build upon thousands and thousands of years of history. Believe it or not, we're still observing the effects of events that happened a LONG TIME ago. Say for example, the fall of Rome. It is because Rome fell that the Catholic church can take power. Without the Catholic church authority, the power mongering kings and queens wouldn't create a total monarchy. If it weren't for the monarches, chances are, the people wouldn't have a mass rebellion which eventually leads to the French Republic and other democratic European nations. If it weren't for the individuality and nationalism born out of the revolution, there wouldn't be Bismark and later Hitler. So there is just no way to predict such things.

I agree with the previous member who brought up the striking paralle between present day USA and the Roman Empire. Of course on the surface, we can just dismiss it as another babble of lunatic or American hater. But if we dig deeper, we can see many similar things. Both nations consider themselves to be the light of civilization. Both nations thought of themselves as a world police and have the right to invade others soverign nations if they feel like it. They both numb their citizens with hordes after hordes of entertainment so the people couldn't be bothered with politics and other things that matters. They both have corrupt governments in which they only tend to the matters of the rich and screwed over the poor.

Mark my words, when people reach boiling point of the arrogance displayed by the American government, the people will rebel and revolt like how the Roman Empire fell. It's only a matter of time before we'll get our fair share of retribution.

I once believed in the people, the Constitution and the revolutionary idea that founded this country and I still do. I still believe that freedom means something. But with the way our government is heading, I believe we will soon end ourselves

Zozo you just reply to posts that are pro to your views and never strong arguments that are cons, how about trying to reponce to this. You know what that is called? Hypocritic. Exactly what America is doing now critizing China or Iraq on their inhumane acts, when if you read my posts, America has mistreated South American labour, Blacks, and currently Arabian prisoners in so many occassions throughout history.

And what good is democratic elections, when George Bush, is the result for two presidency terms? Not to mention Truman, or Johnson in the past.

Originally posted by zoso28

"The US is responsible for keeping the free world free."

Apparently the sentence isn't complete, typo, oppsie. Let me finish it up for you:

---The US is responsible for keeping the free world free of true human rights, individual equality and economic independence---

There you go, all better!!! Oh don't thank me.

"The US is nearly the sole protectors of freedom and democracy as we know it today."

Don't forget about Hitler. Nazis were protector of freedom too by "liberating" the Frenchies from their evil government. But damn, i don't have any proof, but i will claim it to be truth anyways.

"The US is the most charitable nation the world has ever known."

Bet your ass it is. $1000 million worth of military supples are given as charity to Israel each year!!! Go USA!!!

And the Israelis used those money and gave free moving services to the Palestinians so they can move to refugee camps without running water and electrcity. Well, embracing the mother nature was trendy those days.

Who ever said that camping isn't popular in middle east and only Americans and Canadians do it? Currently 400000 Arabians are camping RIGHT NOW. Sleeping bags must be a huge business there.

"All the free democratic nations that exist today do so because of the blanket of security the US provides."

Blanket of security from what? Marsian invasion? As far as i concern the Marsians won't attack earth until the year 2500. Americans sure can look at the large picture.

"The US is a society and people based upon liberty, freedom, and justice."

And no one else do?

Too bad the Americans didn't expand the "Liberty and freedom" into South Amaerica when they got there in the 50S.

Justice? A black boy was sent to prison for 14 years for kissing a white girl. KKK would be proud: "Justice is served."

"There is an endless supply of young men and women in the US who will continue to volunteer to defend freedom."

Last time i checked US only had 273 000 000 people. And last time i read, Ameria only had volunteers in WWII, and in Vietnam there were draft burners.

"Sleep well knowing you are protected."

All Americans sleep well knowing they have a pump shotgun under their pillows. Me? I sleep well knowing my country has a couple of nukes if the GI comes for the holidays and decides to do cowboy hee haw.

Originally Quoted by Zoso28

“And the US is the only country threatened by terrorists. Do i even need to respond to that. The US is realitive new comers to terrorists attacks. Terrorists attack because they are evil, ignorant(the suicide bombers that is), and brain washed. Bottom line. Would you as a US hater, conduct a suicide bombing in the US. I think not, because you are a decent, inteligent and free thinking person.”

I hate the US, but would i equip myself a stanley knife and hijack a plane and crash it into the world trade center? Of course not!!!

USA didn't dare screw up my country in the Gulf War, Cold War and whatever 100 other wars it has been involved in. And my family and ancestors weren't driven to be refugees by US either. Why would i do such a thing?

Originally Quoted by Zoso28

“If you want to be a communist or utopianist or whatever they call themselves these days go ahead. Create your own utopian society and if it is succesful it will be the 1st. But eventually, the ones who are doing all the work will resent the ones who are slacking and guess what you got. Free trade and capitalism buddy. Aint it a beautiful thing.”

Right so, in an utopian nation the ones doing all the work will resent the ones slacking off and buddy capitalism is introduced.

Is there historical example and proof of this?

Coz for the other half of the story, the unhappy working class would be abused and exploited by the middle and ruling class that the larger working class would eventually overthrow them and set up a communist government.

It happened in Russia, happened in Cuba, happened in China, happened in Vietnam.

Russia abolished communism because of its financial incapability in the Cold War was not efficient of keeping up with the Arms and Space Race.

China had reforms in the 70s because of Deng and his moderates.

Do i need to say Cuba and Vietnam? Cuba is a beautiful and happy communist country where the people has excellent health care, the gov provides them with homes to live in, food to eat etc

Vietnam? US screwed them over in the 60s but they are getting there.

Believe it or not Japan would have become communist if not for the US imprisonning them and banned the communist party after WWII. In fact they did that back in your homeland too. So much for freedom of expression, liberty and justice.

As far as i concern, zoso you sure speak a lot of crap, but you never have any historical sources, statistics to back them up. I doubt you ever even taken history, economics or politics classes.

Originally Quoted by Pepsi78

“What will you acomplish with hate?
If you hate some one dont expect him to talk to you, guess thats how people end up in the corner ignored by every one.
How can you hate a country or some one that lives his life and has nothing to do with you, a regular citisen that you dont even know that just go's
about his life and never done anithing to you and your family.
This is how fanatics are boren, i may not agree with the policy of the us administration but that does not mean that we have to go and start hate americans or america , what hate them for what, for living their life? hate them cause they are not like you? or cause they dont act like you want them to?”

Talk? Are the Americans ever capable of that?

Look at my earlier posts on the Soviet summit meetings in the peaceful co existence era, and the breakdown of the Paris summit.

The whole world tried to "talk" to the US about reducing pollution and sign the Kyoto Agreement, sure the Americans talked: "No."


[edit on 14-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

[edit on 14-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

Despite what you think, pepsi, the politics and eocnomics ARE linked

if you are democractic in politics, you are capitalists.

if you are communist, you have a closed economics circular flow of capital.

No questions asked.

Why is better health care never accomplished in US? Simple. US is going the capitalist way. And in a society based on materialism and capitalism the role of significance of an individual in the nation is futile. All that is important is cooperations, conglomerates.

Originally posted by Jakomo

Your country is probably the least educated country in the developed world.

I doubt this. Would like to see some actual proof

Your country has one of the widest gaps between rich and poor.

Being or getting rich is not a crime. Entrepreneurship is a big part of the american way.

Your country still puts to death the mentally handicapped and minors.

We put to death people who murder other people. Murder is a crime. So i guess its ok for the murdering minors to stay at your house?

Your country has a larger percentage of its population BEHIND BARS than any other country including communist China and Russia.

Again, these people are in jail because they commited a crime, not because they said the wrong thing.

Your country's largest health threat is OBESITY and the diseases that accompany it because you overconsume.

Really cant disagree with you there

Your country is the largest polluter in the world (soon to be overtaken by China, so congrats).

By-product of being heavily industrial. This means we make thing and sell them for profit. Evil, just evil

Your country is responsible for overthrowing far more countries than it has helped, and it is responsible for slaughtering far more civilians than it has saved.

Would like to see your list here. Can't respond properly until i do

Your country's citizens are most definitely the least traveled and world-savvy of all the Western countries, including all of South and Central America (3rd world countries most of em).

We are already here so why do we need to leave(tongue firmly in cheek)

Your country is probably one of the most hated in the world, mostly because of your stupid cowboy President, but also because people can't BELIEVE that you RE-ELECTED your stupid cowboy President.

Now we get to the root of it all. Just another Bush hater who bases his opinion of an entire country on his dislike of its leader

Real patriots look at the problems in their country, accept them, and try to fix them. America did not come about because of yes-men. It came about through struggle. It was created by men who were trying to get people to NOT TRUST their government.

Agree with you here also

Fake patriots say things to each other like "I am proud to call you a fellow American" based on nothing other than a vague commonality. However, if these two people met on a bus, and one of them was non-white, there would most likely be a totally different dynamic. (Am I implying many Americans are racist? Why, yes, yes I am.)

Totally presumptuous on your part. Racism affect everyone, everywhere

So there's my reality. If yours' is that the USA is the best thing to ever happen to the world, then that's good for you. But don't ever expect to mention that to 98% of the rest of the world without them falling over laughing.

I am not trying to say the US is the best thing to ever happen to the world. This is really just a counter to the US bashing that seems so prevalent on this site. 98%? Thats alot

98% of the rest of the world cannot be wrong.

Don't bet on it!

BUT let me qualify this. I have met thousands of Americans over the years and I can honestly say that I liked and respected 99% of them. You cannot blame individuals for the actions of their government.

Yet you do because of your hatred for Bush




[edit on 14-12-2005 by Jakomo]

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
Zozo you just reply to posts that are pro to your views and never strong arguments that are cons, how about trying to reponce to this. You know what that is called? Hypocritic.[edit on 14-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

[edit on 14-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

You again? This is as far as i got on your post because its all i need to respond to. I have made several strong arguements to those worthy of replying to.

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
Despite what you think, pepsi, the politics and eocnomics ARE linked

Only if you want them too, has i told you they may be linked but are 2 difrent things , for examample france is social democratic, or you can have a monarch deomcracy, democracy is simply described as vote a senate a parlament witch in comunism does not have mutch to say.
Capitalism is a economic for and has nothing to do with it , either that capitalism is a bad or good thing it is apart from democracy.

if you are communist, you have a closed economics circular flow of capital.

You also have people that run over border , take a look at the north coreans that run over border take a look at cubans that almost drown them selfs and are berly some times rescued by the coast guard.
Comunism means no comunication with other people and dictated living.
In comunism there is no opinions(no democracy) I HAS A PERSON DONT WANT THAT CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ?
And no body will , i dont want to live dictated i want to make my own choises screw comunism.
Who are you to dictate me how i should live my life.
I am the one that will chose and no one will do it for me, i will deside if i want to stay late up until 3 aclock at night i will deside if i will go to some other country and i will deside what words come out of my maulth.

I just think u'r from some comunism nation china or north corea(even worse)

[edit on 14-12-2005 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Jakomo
LostSailor:

Fact is most of the homeless in this country "choose" to live that way.

Wow are you for real? Are there really people like you out there who think things like that?

It's a fact... There was just a problem in California where farmers needed help harvesting their crops. The offered $10 an hour at the unemployment offices in the area. One person showed up and lasted about half the day. Most of the unemployed in this country are unemployed because they choose to be that way. Shall I say it again to get it through your dense head?

Unlike in Cuba where it is... "you do this job" or you are labeled a dissident. We all know what happens to a dissident in communist Cuba right?

Yes... I know... Do you?

Originally posted by Jakomo

Your country is probably the least educated country in the developed world.

How the hell do you figure this? Show me some stats here because I'm just not seeing it? Or is this just something you heard that fits your preconceived notion of what the US is like?

Your country has one of the widest gaps between rich and poor.

Is there something wrong with some people working hard to make money? Or should we take the money from the people that work the hardest and give it to the lazy? That way it makes socialists like you happy.

Your country still puts to death the mentally handicapped and minors.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time... Mentally handicapped? Where you hearing this crap?

Your country has a larger percentage of its population BEHIND BARS than any other country including communist China and Russia.

read above.

Your country's largest health threat is OBESITY and the diseases that accompany it because you overconsume.

Yes.. we are a fat country... Not sure if its just due to over-consuming though.

Your country is the largest polluter in the world (soon to be overtaken by China, so congrats).

Do some research on this oh so greatly superior educated man...

Your country is responsible for overthrowing far more countries than it has helped, and it is responsible for slaughtering far more civilians than it has saved.

Again... Where do you get these numbers?

Your country's citizens are most definitely the least traveled and world-savvy of all the Western countries, including all of South and Central America (3rd world countries most of em).

Again... Please... If you're gonna spout your mouth at least don't say stupid things.

Your country is probably one of the most hated in the world, mostly because of your stupid cowboy President, but also because people can't BELIEVE that you RE-ELECTED your stupid cowboy President.

If he is pissing people like you off then I'd say he's doing something right.

Fake patriots say things to each other like "I am proud to call you a fellow American" based on nothing other than a vague commonality. However, if these two people met on a bus, and one of them was non-white, there would most likely be a totally different dynamic. (Am I implying many Americans are racist? Why, yes, yes I am.)

Yeah... Racism was invented in the US... You are crackin' me up man

Jakomo, the only place I can agree with you on any of your points is being we are the least traveled. And for a reason, its those two big bodies of water that seperate us from Europe and Asia. Ive been to Mexico, not to Canada yet. But its just too expensive for the average American to get over to Europe or Asia. I mean hell you can take a train to get anywhere in Europe, its not a fair comparison. It costs a lot of money to go abroad and actually stay long enough to enjoy it, the plane ticket alone is a grand possibly more.

[edit on 12/14/2005 by ludaChris]

Originally Quoted by Zoso28

You again? This is as far as i got on your post because its all i need to respond to. I have made several strong arguements to those worthy of replying to.

Lol strong arguments? Like what?

“And the US is the only country threatened by terrorists. Do i even need to respond to that. The US is realitive new comers to terrorists attacks. Terrorists attack because they are evil, ignorant(the suicide bombers that is), and brain washed. Bottom line. Would you as a US hater, conduct a suicide bombing in the US. I think not, because you are a decent, inteligent and free thinking person.”

I hate the US, but would i equip myself a stanley knife and hijack a plane and crash it into the world trade center? Of course not!!!

USA didn't dare screw up my country in the Gulf War, Cold War and whatever 100 other wars it has been involved in. And my family and ancestors weren't driven to be refugees by US either. Why would i do such a thing?

So now you are stating that terrorists are evil. And as far as I concern it is the rest of the world entitling America as evil, not the other way around.

“If you want to be a communist or utopianist or whatever they call themselves these days go ahead. Create your own utopian society and if it is succesful it will be the 1st. But eventually, the ones who are doing all the work will resent the ones who are slacking and guess what you got. Free trade and capitalism buddy. Aint it a beautiful thing.”

Is there historical evidence or proof of this?

The rest of your “arguments” are even more rubbish, such as: The US is nearly the sole protectors of freedom and democracy as we know it today." Or "The US is responsible for keeping the free world free."

Please zoso do us all a favor and don't ever post again about topics you obviously have NO knowledge of, including history, economics, politics.

And next time you claim or make a statement have accurate historical evidence or statistics to back it up, no one gives a damn if you blurb out propaganda crap your government has been stuffing on the tv.

[edit on 14-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

And why does it matter where i am from, i can be from France, Germany, Spain, Russia, Japan, Korea, China, Philippines, Australia, who knows, all those nationa contain anti US population, what differences does it make where i am from.

USA did not invent racism, but it was the country that intensified anti-black demonstrations and actions on such grand and violent scale. KKK anyone?

Even now racism still exist in US, listen to Prussian Blue, Max Resist etc. Guess it's not as "free", "liberated" and "just" as it claimed to be.

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
USA did not invent racism, but it was the country that intensified anti-black demonstrations and actions on such grand and violent scale. KKK anyone?

Even now racism still exist in US, listen to Prussian Blue, Max Resist etc. Guess it's not as "free", "liberated" and "just" as it claimed to be.

This is exactly what makes the country free. Anyone has the right to speak their voice as long as it is in a peaceful manner. Of course their views are severly distorted, but their right to free speech must be upheld as well as yours and mine must be. I mean look at the protests that have taken place from NY to SanFran during the campaign and election months. I dont get your logic with the last line of your statement, if both the far left and right can have public demonstrations, I'd say its pretty damn free.

double post

[edit on 12/15/2005 by ludaChris]

I cup of tea for anyone?

Earth Unification what do you really want?
I stilll dont get it, you want comunism?you want democracy?you want what? you keep on saing something but we dont realy know what you want.
Of course you can only want something for your self and not for others but you already know that right?
So just name that society that you want to be part of, the name of it please
it has taken x pages and we still dont know what you want.

Freedom is generally good for the people, but there needs to be a limit and restriction on how "free" people can be.

There are simply individuals that cannot make rational decisions on what's right and what's wrong. Government normally bans drugs, weapons (except US that is), and racist music should also be one of them as it causes social divide among the races and the community and obviously an unfair interpretation of the black americans, asians, arabians and any other minority groups in US that racist music always target on.

The fact that US is not exterminating racism strong enough in excuse for freedom of expression is not acceptable.

Pepsi you are completely missing the entire point. This is a discussion forum, i am not here to demand for anything.

Zoso stated that US is the sole protector of the world freedom, security and other bull crap, do YOU agree with him?

I simply posted arguments backed with historical figures and facts and proved him wrong.

[edit on 15-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

Originally Quoted by Lost Sailor

“Is there something wrong with some people working hard to make money? Or should we take the money from the people that work the hardest and give it to the lazy? That way it makes socialists like you happy.”

The income distribution problem in America or any other capitalist countries is not as simple as the hard working man earning more than the lazy man. If that is the case, I say let the lazy man sleep on the streets.

Right now, it’s about large cooperations monopolizing the market through large sum of capital. US and European multi-nationals also exploit labour not just in their own nations but third world countries as well through low pay. Furthermore governments support these cooperations with subsidies, bringing down the prices of goods too low for small producers and firms to be competitive.

As you can see, even the man that do work his ass off has no chance to stand in the market monopolized and manipulated by conglomerates, cooperations. That’s the current situation in US. The rich gets richer, the poor stays poor, doesn’t matter how hard you work.

“Yes.. we are a fat country... Not sure if its just due to over-consuming though.”

Actually it is. Studies showed the overall food consumption per capita in US is 30% higher than needed to be. That is however a mean figure, nonetheless large portion of Americans are consuming much more than their biological requirement. That explains the high teen obesity rate in US.

“Do some research on this (US being the largest polluter in the world) oh so greatly superior educated man...”

Actually Jakomo is right again. On average US is contributing 40% of the entire world’s pollution annually. China currently doesn’t even come close.

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
Freedom is generally good for the people, but there needs to be a limit and restriction on how "free" people can be.

There are simply individuals that cannot make rational decisions on what's right and what's wrong. Government normally bans drugs, weapons (except US that is), and racist music should also be one of them as it causes social divide among the races and the community and obviously an unfair interpretation of the black americans, asians, arabians and any other minority groups in US that racist music always target on.

The fact that US is not exterminating racism strong enough in excuse for freedom of expression is not acceptable.

Pepsi you are completely missing the entire point. This is a discussion forum, i am not here to demand for anything.

Zoso stated that US is the sole protector of the world freedom, security and other bull crap, do YOU agree with him?

I simply posted arguments backed with historical figures and facts and proved him wrong.
[edit on 15-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

There is restriction on freedom, its called the law. Without it, there would be total anarchy. But you say racism should be banned, that would be infringing on the constitution and if you censor one group where does it stop. The constitution is about equality, althought it hasnt been practiced properly here until now. These racist nutjobs have a right to say what they want, but you also have the right to say what you want. You get it. I dont agree with any of the stuff they say, but you infring on one you must on another.

I guess youve never heard any racist rap before, calling for the killing of white people. I dont condone any of it, but Its their right to speak that voice. Whoever wants to be racist, thats their problem, it only distances themselves from society. You seem to like to blame white folks for all the racial problems. Once again, its time for everyone on the individual level to start taking personal responsibility for themselves and their actions and stop playing the blame game.

Yes it is acceptable in a free society, you can protest what a racist says can you not, if they want to remain ignorant let them, they are not the mainstream. Racism is nowhere near the problem it once was, time is taking care of the issue. Why do you want to restrict freedom of speech, when it is the very basis for a free society, it is the most basic freedom. You dont have to agree with it, but you can speak out against it. I dont see how you can justify regulating freedom of speech on that basis.

As for white racism in music, you know as well as I know the racism that is in "white" music doesnt get the attention it used to. No white person can rise to stardom today, with the central or any point of their music being to promote racism, its just not possible in todays society. In the white community, it is looked upon with shame and hostility. As they are doing nothing but rolling back progress made. But look at some of the rap that has come out in the past 10-15 years, and has become fairly main stream in some black communities.
home.att.net...
Though the point I'm trying to make is racism is racism no matter which way you slice it. It is terrible, but in a free society such things must be allowed. You wont eliminate it by banning it. You cant ban an idea, this isnt the Orwell's 1984 with the thought police, it wouldnt work if you did ban it. Sweeping it under the rug doesnt mean its gone.

[edit on 12/15/2005 by ludaChris]

[edit on 12/15/2005 by ludaChris]

If like you said the US government emphasize so much on people's freedom of expression and speech, why was it that the CPUSA, Communist Party of United States of America was banned in the 1930s and 1940s as a political force by McCarthyism and the Cold War, and party members were imprissoned.

The Communists were not extremists on any radical levels. Didn't they deserve freedom of speech of promoting communism in US beliving in individual equality, fair distribution of wealth too?



[edit on 15-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]