NEWS: Report: Tamiflu "Useless" Against H5N1 Bird Flu

From what I understand, it's not a strain issue, but the same issue that plagues current flu vaccines, capacity.

The high doses needed for protection against H5N1 pose obvious challenges in regard to production capacity. In a Wall Street Journal (WSJ) article today, Fauci said the 2 million US doses already ordered might cover only 450,000 people. Supplying even the amount of vaccine ordered for yearly US influenza vaccination programs is problematic, as evidenced by last flu season's shortage when the Chiron company was unable to produce the almost–50 million doses it was to supply to the United States. In a flu pandemic, vaccine for the worldwide population would be needed.

The new vaccine, like yearly flu vaccines, is grown in chicken eggs, so the amount that can be produced is dependent on the supply of eggs that producers can supply to vaccine companies. And the growth process takes several months. Experiments on cell-culture vaccines, which would circumvent these limitations, are under way, but their clinical use is far distant. Said Fauci in the Times article, "The critical issue now is, can we make enough vaccine, given the well-known inability of the vaccine industry to make enough vaccine?"

My guess is they're going to develop as much as they can, and hope they can beat any potential mutation. If they can harness cell-cultures more quickly, I don't think we'd have a problem at all, even if it did mutate.

FYI -


Flu Vaccine Technology: Who's Blocking its Use?

Posted by: soficrow
On: Sat November, 27 2004 @ 05:58 GMT

Cutting-edge technology for flu vaccine development is called "reverse genetic engineering." It's quick, easy and reliable, but it's not being used to create vaccines for the bird flu epidemic... Supposedly, it's too expensive. Vaccine manufacturers say profits will suffer if they pay royalties, so they still use the old, slow, unreliable "genetic reassortment" technology (growing it in chicken eggs). As a result, some estimates indicate a billion people may die world-wide from bird flu, including millions of Americans. Maybe a billion more will live to suffer progressive degeneration and disability.


Plus ca change

Sorry 27jd - forgot to make my point.

The promo says H5N1 vaccines are not being produced because the pandemic strain hasn't appeared yet.

In the meantime, the drug companies are using old technologies to manufacture the already-developed and tested H5N1 vaccine.

Old technology grows the vaccine in chicken eggs - it's unreliable, and takes months longer than new technologies to produce. IF the batch is good - half the time the H5N1 kills the eggs and they have to start over.

The stories don't wash.

In the meantime, our leaders have dissed all the recommended animal prevention strategies - and killed production of a decent anti-viral made in Australia.

Which leaves us with NO prevention strategy, NO vaccine, and NO anti-viral treatment that works.

The big plan is to quarantine human victims, and let all the the wild and domestic animal H5N1 carriers run free.


So. Um. What do you think is really going on here?

I'm not sure about this report...

China reports new human case of bird flu, new vaccine

A new human case of highly pathogenic H5N1 bird flu was found in Ziyuan County of Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region... There was no reporting of any bird flu outbreak in the county. The government did not say how the girl got infected with the disease.

...On another front, a made-in-china bird flu vaccine has proved effective in preventing the disease both in chickens and water fowls and humans, Xinhua reported. The H5N1 bird flu vaccine had been tested in some Southern Asian countries

China’s experts attending an ongoing conference aimed at controlling the highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) in Asia claimed the research on bird flu vaccine in China is now the most advanced in the world.

***

China leads world in bird flu vaccine research: experts

KUNMING, Dec. 7 (Xinhuanet) -- China's research on bird flu vaccine is now the most advanced in the world, said experts attending an ongoing conference here aimed at strengthening cooperation on controlling the highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) in Asia.

The H5N1 bird flu vaccine developed by China has been proved "effective" after being used in some Southeast Asian countries, according to the experts who are here to participate in a Ministerial Conference for Asian Cooperation on HPAI Control.

And the Tamiflu fire sale:

Generic Tamiflu Rights: Kindness or Fire Sale?

BANGKOK, Dec 7 (TNA) - Thailand's Government Pharmaceutical Organization (GPO) can sucessfully produce its own version of anti-bird flu capsules with imported raw materials, according to the Minister of Public Health.

Speaking after a meeting of senior officials on the drug production and establishment of an anti-bird flu vaccine plant, Public Health Minister Pinij Jarusombat said it is good news that the Government Pharmaceutical Organization could make Oseltamivir -- the primary anti-bird flu treatment -- with a quality equivalent to the orginal drug.

Made of the same ingredients, Oseltamivir manufactured in Thailand is 50 per cent cheaper than imported Oseltamivir, the generic name of Tamiflu.

......

Have you read Alex Jones's take on the bird flu, it's what you'd expect (everything is a pretext for martial law with that guy), but it's fun to read anyway....

www.prisonplanet.com...

Originally posted by 27jd
Have you read Alex Jones's take on the bird flu, it's what you'd expect (everything is a pretext for martial law with that guy), but it's fun to read anyway....

www.prisonplanet.com...

Hmm. Alex Jones says authorities are lying about bird flu, there is no bird flu, and it's all a scam to justify martial law.

I say authorities dismissed the early pandemic alerts, blocked animal quarantine prevention strategies, blocked reverse genetic vaccine production and killed manufacturing of Australia's anti-viral to bump Tamiflu's value on the market - and it's all a scam so they'll have an excuse to enforce quarantine by martial law when bird flu hits. I also suspect the scam is related to a long-planned depopulation scheme.

I believe my education is more complete than Alex Jones'.

.

Originally posted by soficrow
I believe my education is more complete than Alex Jones'.

I believe you've demonstrated that on several occasions.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by soficrow
I believe my education is more complete than Alex Jones'.

I believe you've demonstrated that on several occasions.

Why thank you 27jd.

...I am hoping Suzy has more info on Australia's anti-viral. Also, I'd like to see an agreement that allows reverse genetic engineering of the H5N1 vaccine. That will make all the difference in the world - because the turnaround is so fast.

Tamiflu resistance during treatment for H5N1 (free full text)

An official report confirming what has been hinted at in the media. The Dept of Health in the UK is looking carefully at the report it says ...

Virologist Menno de Jong, head of virology at the Hospital for Tropical Diseases in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam was the first bird flu expert to question Tamiflu's effectiveness publicly.

Now, de Jong is backtracking. He is telling doctors NOT to give up on patients with advanced bird flu, and to use whatever anti-virals they have available because they might help. Good advice, imo.

Don't give up on advanced human bird flu cases -expert

An expert who treated numerous bird flu victims in Vietnam has urged doctors not to lose hope with patients who are admitted late to hospital as there is still a good chance that they can survive.

H5N1 behaves differently from human flu viruses and has been observed to be replicating in its human hosts even on the seventh or eighth day, he said. ..."In my experience, there is a clear suggestion that there was still virus replication (when we made) a late start in treatment. In four of my patients, there was very rapid clearance of the virus from the throat and all 4 survived," he told Reuters on the sidelines of a conference on avian flu and other infectious diseases in Singapore.

"If you can decrease the viral load (with drugs), you can have a good outcome. Even those who are treated late had good results," he told the conference. ...de Jong, head of virology at the Hospital for Tropical Diseases in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam, said Tamiflu could still be used to fight bird flu many days after the onset of symptoms because the avian virus would still be multiplying. ...De Jong agreed with many experts that an early start to treatment was still best - something easier said than done in places such as Vietnam, Indonesia and China. ..."You have to get very effective treatment as early as possible because you will prevent direct viral damage (to lung and other tissues)," de Jong said. ...Early treatment could also prevent what is known as the "cytokine storm response", when a human's immune system launches such a heavy counter-attack that it destroys not only the invading avian flu virus, but the person's own surrounding tissues as well, he added. ...De Jong, ...said diagnostic tools were absolutely crucial in rural areas. ..."If the community has a small lab or regional hospital, probably these patients would have been diagnosed earlier and treatment would have been given early," he said.

Also See: More About Tamiflu.

We already knew that in the beginning... the whole scare of the bird flu pandemia was a scam to make money... Yay for Rumsfeld and his Gilead pharmaceutical buisiness control of the main ingredient of Tamiflu... $$$.

Rumsfeld: $$ with the bird flu scam
Cheney: $$ Halliburton
Bush: $$ Oil

What a bunch of ... well, greedy traitors.

[edit on 13-12-2006 by Vitchilo]

Vitch, try telling the Dead Chicken farmers from Asia that Bird Flu doesnt exist

It just seems its not as big a problem as what they thought it may be.

Vitch, try telling the Dead Chicken farmers from Asia that Bird Flu doesnt exist

It just seems its not as big a problem as what they thought it may be.

I don't mean it doesn't exist, it exist since early 1900. And there was always deads from it, but the hype of the pandemia to sell tamiflu is the scam. Tamiflu isn't working in the first place, and the bird flu isn't a menace at all, they were making a hype of all this.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

Tamiflu isn't working in the first place, and the bird flu isn't a menace at all, they were making a hype of all this.

1. The point of my update on de Jong's retraction is to point out that there are no real treatment options - and to suggest that de Jong is fighting against a triage mode that says, "Let them die."

IMO - de Jong's retraction is a noble effort.

2. Bird flu IS a menace. It already has decimated national and regional economies in Asia and near-Asia - and destroyed the food supplies of those areas' poor.

3. The most significant danger presented by H5N1 bird flu is its capacity to hybridize with other zoonoses like rabies, dengue fever and anthrax, for example - and to create the perfect microbial storm.


IMO - you are quite right that this crisis is being used opportunistically, for profit. But you are under-informed, and flailing about with some totally erroneous accusations. I suggest you maybe read at least some of the background, and catch up on a bit of the science - at least basic evolutionary theory.


.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

I don't mean it doesn't exist, it exist since early 1900. And there was always deads from it, but the hype of the pandemia to sell tamiflu is the scam. Tamiflu isn't working in the first place, and the bird flu isn't a menace at all, they were making a hype of all this.

Better safe than sorry i say, Dont buy it if you dont want it ...

Applys to many aspects of life, install smoke alarms or dont install, have Tsunami warning devices or dont have them, Where a Condom or dont wear one ......

Choices Choices Choices, if the public could buy Tamiflu over the counter id have some in my Cabinet !

Better safe than sorry i say, Dont buy it if you dont want it ...

The problem is that my taxes dollars served to buy it.

Applys to many aspects of life, install smoke alarms or dont install, have Tsunami warning devices or dont have them, Where a Condom or dont wear one ......

It's not the same thing, Tamiflu is not working.

2. Bird flu IS a menace. It already has decimated national and regional economies in Asia and near-Asia - and destroyed the food supplies of those areas' poor.

Yeah and it already did a couple of time since it exists, since the beginning of the century.

3. The most significant danger presented by H5N1 bird flu is its capacity to hybridize with other zoonoses like rabies, dengue fever and anthrax, for example - and to create the perfect microbial storm.

Yeah it could. And Bush could die tomorrow and an error could spark a nuclear war next week.

IMO - you are quite right that this crisis is being used opportunistically, for profit. But you are under-informed, and flailing about with some totally erroneous accusations.

Errounous accusations? Rumsfeld was the chairman of Gilead Sciences, so he owns a hell of stocks, between 5 millions and 25 millions$ in stocks, and they have the control of the main ingredient of Tamiflu, the only know ``cure`` to the bird flu. So with spreading the threat of the bird flu and hyping it, he made a hell lot of money when the stock rose from 35$ to 57$ because Bush allowed 1 billion from your taxes to buy Tamiflu.

Gilead Sciences and Rumsfeld/Bush scams
Hell, it's not a coincidence that a bird flu hype appeared when Bush and Rumsfeld were in office and have plenty of stocks from this corporation. They created the hype. Halliburton was awared billions of no-bid contracts and Bush made money over the rise of the oil's price.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

Tamiflu is not working.

I posted this article 1 1/2 years ago to make that exact information public. The title, as you may recall, is "Tamiflu "Useless" Against H5N1 Bird Flu."

Unfortunately, there are few other treatment options for bird flu, and as a result, doctors are poised to withhold treatment for late stage cases - and just let the victims die.

That is why Dr. de Jong, the original Tamiflu whistleblower, is backtracking and now urging authorities to recommend treatment even for patients whose disease has progressed.

The fact is - even though Tamiflu and other anti-virals do not work well, they ARE better than nothing.

Of note: Anti-cholesterol drugs called "statins" may be better than nothing too.

2. Bird flu IS a menace. It already has decimated national and regional economies in Asia and near-Asia - and destroyed the food supplies of those areas' poor.

Yeah and it already did a couple of time since it exists, since the beginning of the century.

Sources? Details? ...According to my research, the only confirmed outbreaks threatening a pandemic occurred in 1918 and now (as of 2003). I have suspicions, but no confirmed data - so whatever you have would be more than welcome.

By 1959, H5N1 bird flu was discovered in chickens in Scotland where it was isolated and used in experiments.

I have repeatedly presented my hypothesis here on ATS that bird flu did originate in the early 1900's as a result of vaccine contaminations. This hypothesis is based on pathology, not micro- or molecular biology (I don't have access to genomes etc.).

However, there was a formal acknowledgment that the 1918 flu pandemic resulted from a bird flu - which came later, after the 1918 flu virus was re-engineered and grown in a CDC lab.

Some of my background research is here: Bird Flu Spin and Counterspin.

3. The most significant danger presented by H5N1 bird flu is its capacity to hybridize with other zoonoses like rabies, dengue fever and anthrax, for example - and to create the perfect microbial storm.

Yeah it could. And Bush could die tomorrow and an error could spark a nuclear war next week.

???

This is, in fact, the most significant danger presented by bird flu - it is real, and imminent.

Please - inform yourself. Hint: learn some science, and read the original research reports, not the watered down, inaccurate media releases.

And read at least some of the very valuable information presented here.

IMO - you are quite right that this crisis is being used opportunistically, for profit. But you are under-informed, and flailing about with some totally erroneous accusations.

Errounous accusations? Rumsfeld was the chairman of Gilead Sciences, so he owns a hell of stocks, between 5 millions and 25 millions$ in stocks, and they have the control of the main ingredient of Tamiflu, the only know ``cure`` to the bird flu. So with spreading the threat of the bird flu and hyping it, he made a hell lot of money when the stock rose from 35$ to 57$ because Bush allowed 1 billion from your taxes to buy Tamiflu.

True. As I originally reported here, here, here (see "Tracking the Money").

The manipulations are real - and the looming pandemic crisis is real too.

Rumsfeld and Bush did not manufacture the bird flu threat - they rode it, and censored the information released to the public so they could position, and profit.

Hell, it's not a coincidence that a bird flu hype appeared when Bush and Rumsfeld were in office and have plenty of stocks from this corporation. They created the hype. Halliburton was awared billions of no-bid contracts and Bush made money over the rise of the oil's price.

Bush and the boyz suppressed reams of scientific information - about global warming - and about the impact of agri-industry and nano-biotech on microbes.

They knew for a long time that the pandemic crisis was coming - the writing was on the wall, and scientists were screaming warnings. And just like the scientists said it would, the crisis hit its turning point early in Bush's regime.

So Bush gagged US scientists; many microbiologists were killed; and the critical information was suppressed while the boyz did their positioning, orchestrating and manipulating.

Yes. They positioned to profit. But no, they did not manufacture the crisis. They manipulated the crisis for their own profit - NOT to serve the public good.

That's the conspiracy.

.