NEWS: George Bush Strongly Supports Death Penalty

Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by TheEXone
Seekerof; how do those passages by Jesus indicate that he supported the death penalty when he never states that he does?

I guess you missed that WWJD (What would Jesus do) given in one of those links?

Jesus=God?
You missed those God references also?


That is my point, im questioning the validity of that website to describe what exacly jesus would do. As I stated the "evidence" they describe is vauge and does not directly deal with the issue. But what we do know about his teachings specificaly goes against violence and killing by anyone but God.



seekerof

Originally posted by kegs
The list still stands. These are the countries you stand with on the death penalty. Like it or not. You do.

Fine. We stand with Japan, a bunch of beautiful Caribbean island nations, and the world's largest democracy India.

Not too bad company

[edit on 12/2/2005 by djohnsto77]

Fine. We stand with Japan, a bunch of beautiful Caribbean island nations, and the world's largest democracy India.

Not too bad company


lol, now it's beautiful. If that's what it takes to make you feel good about crime then I hope a climax doesn't just mean the top of a hill, nor your next #e as a hedgehog.

How is this news at all?
Bush started a massive war to oust a dictator who killed thousands.
Why wouldnt he be in favor of killing citizens who are murders?

Originally posted by kegs
Congratulations. You just piped Iran, China and Pakistan in executions this year.

Yeah, because I'm sure those countries really provide the public with accurate execution numbers. Nevermind the innocent people who are taken from their homes at night, and the countless political prisoners, who are all executed behind closed doors without even the slightest hint of a trial. Those countries have prisons too, does that mean we should eliminate our's because the bad guys have them also? I mean if a country like Iran has prisons then it must be a bad thing according to your logic!

What you're failing to address is the fact that our criminal justice system is among the best and most fair in the world, especially when it comes to those accused of a crime. If only the victims and the victims' families were afforded all the rights, priveledges and opportunities that we give those who committed the crime against them. I already listed it in another post above, but those convicted and sentenced to death in America are automatically given an appeal, in addition to countless other avenues to avoid death and even have themselves vindicated, if possible. So to equate our capital punishment system to that of countries like China, Pakistan and Iran is completely rediculous.

NEWS: George Bush Strongly Supports Death Penalty

Of course he would....why would prospect of possibly putting an innocent person to death even remotely bother him?

This is like saying the sky is blue....

[edit on 2-12-2005 by loam]

Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by bodebliss
Here's my guess:

This just throws out the window, the idea that God talks to Bush.

How so, bodebliss?
Just so that you can come to some understanding of what you have mentioned, quoted above, try these:
The death penalty in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament)
The death penalty/ capital punishment in the Chritian Scriptures (New Testament)
The Death Penalty Debate: Extensive Religious Section Included

seekerof

Oh please Seekerof the one site I looked at(the middle of three) was full of contrivance.

I go by this Jesus healed the ear of his enemy, forgave those who killed him on the cross. Forgave the criminals who died with him if only they would accept his forgiveness.

Could it be any plainer to you?

I'm sorry Rasputin, but that's too stupid to even need a coherent response.



[edit on 2-12-2005 by kegs]

This is not news. The majority of people in America know the story about Bush and Texas irt executions.

from ImJaded Ohhhhh yeah wait, the "potential" victims if this man should live, right right

from djohnsto77 He's talking about the death penalty as a deterrent to crime. If it truly is, then people who would have committed murder against innocent victims won't do it because of fear of the death penalty, thus, by this logic, innocent lives are saved.

[i[]from ImJaded That doesn't work and it is crystal clear that it doesn't. Criminals are going to commit crimes no matter the punishment, why ? Because they simply don't care about the aftermath.

Capital punishment does work when sociopaths are not allowed to walk the streets after hurting or killing someone. There are plenty of recent examles: Jessica Lundsford. Carly Brucia. Dylan Groene. All murdered by ex-cons, who don't care about the punishment. Their murderers are INCORRIGIBLE and cannot be rehabilitated.

Do Smith, Couey, and Duncan deserve to be killed? Would you trust them to babysit your daughter?

Death is the right punishment in these cases. Maybe not in every case, but these qualify. Not a life without a care of where you next meal will come from, or where you'll sleep tonight.



[edit on 3-12-2005 by jsobecky]

[edit on 6-12-2005 by asala]

It is his right to support the death penalty for convicted murderers.
Just as others have a right to support the death penalty for
innocent helpless unborn children. In this country everyone has a
right to support what ever the heck they want .... even when they
are morally wrong for doing so.





[edit on 12/3/2005 by FlyersFan]

So, Flyers Fan, if a person is against capital punishment then they must logically be against abortion, correct?

I'm not starting a fight here. I'm just trying to understand.

[edit on 3-12-2005 by jsobecky]

PS: Why does your reply show Edit mm/dd/yyyy and mine shows dd/mm/yyyy?

[edit on 3-12-2005 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by kegs
I'm sorry Rasputin, but that's too stupid to even need a coherent response.

Great job adding to the discussion here. Why would you even bother posting if you're just going to make an ignorant, one-sentence post that serves no purpose other than proving your mental impairment? You couldn't provide a coherent response even if you wanted to. Your poorly-chosen comparison was exposed and rather than admit it, or just keep your mouth shut, you showed what others like you do when their arguments are disproven by facts and simple logic- you resort to name calling.

It really is a shame that you are so consumed with unfounded hatred of those on the right and the issues they fight for that you choose to engage in childish name calling. If that's something that you plan to continue doing on here, then ATS would be much better served if you stopped posting. Your time would be better spent at the local playground picking on children. At least then it'd be a level playing field.

Originally posted by jsobecky
if a person is against capital punishment then they
must logically be against abortion, correct?

I was trying to point out to the people who are
outspoken pro-abortion/anti-death penalty that people
have a right to speak their minds, even when wrong.
(which I think abortion is ... wrong). They are all
aghast that George Bush approves of the death penalty
punishment for people who have done wrong, and yet
they support the death penalty for innocent children
who have done nothing wrong.

George Bush has a right to his opinion (which I believe
is wrong) just as the pro-abortion people have a right
to their opinion (which I also believe is wrong).

I happen to be against the death penalty for criminals
and against the death penalty for unborn children. We
shouldn't be stopping ANYONE's beating heart unless
it's in self defense for our lives.

I understand that the pro-death penalty people believe
that they ARE defending their lives by putting criminals
to death. I am willing to entertain that discussion.
It's a valid discussion.

Why does your reply show Edit mm/dd/yyyy
and mine shows dd/mm/yyyy?

I have no idea how or why computers run they
way they do. I just type and I let the computer
put what it wants. I'm not computer savy.
Sorry (good question though!).


[edit on 12/3/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
How very Christ like of him...
anti that is...
Personally, I support the death penalty, but only in the most proven cases... otherwise, it is a better punishment to put them in regular prison population for life.

[edit on 2-12-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

there is nothing anti-Christian about the support of the death penalty. Cute little attack on the president, but factually inaccurate.

I concur with your position on the death penalty. Our "just us" system is seriously askewed. The jury of one's peeops is supposed to be just that; a jury of people who know the accused, his character and his position in the community. As we don't have that, we don't have a proper trial by jury.
We also have judges improperly charging juries. This makes the whole affair seriously flawed.

As far as Bush being out of step with the rest of the world; who cares? He is the president of the U.S., not the world. We support the death penalty.

Originally posted by kegs
Congratulations. You just piped Iran, China and Pakistan in executions this year.

Hmmm, how do you mean. You think the US executes more people than these countries ?
Well, China executes about 3000 people per year officially and as many as 10 000 unofficially. So I'm not sure how you think the US has pipped these countries

Originally posted by Rasputin13

It really is a shame that you are so consumed with unfounded hatred of those on the right

I really don't think this is a left/right issue. It is a moral issue. Why do people automatically assume that if you are for the death penalty you are on the right and vice versa. If you support choice (not abortion) then you are automatically assumed to be a liberal. Come on people.....can't you see that these issues are brought up just to divide us even more.

Why would "they" want to divide us? "together we STAND...divided we FALL"....think about it.

I really don't think this is a left/right issue. It is a moral issue. Why do people automatically assume that if you are for the death penalty you are on the right and vice versa. If you support choice (not abortion) then you are automatically assumed to be a liberal. Come on people.....can't you see that these issues are brought up just to divide us even more.

I never said it was a left/right issue, and I don't believe that it is so. It was just a statement of fact that kegs is a radical, left wing, America-hating, Bush-bashing liberal. And because of that, when faced with the truth, he chooses to attack the messanger rather than the message. That's a typical response for someone who knows that they're completely wrong. I don't want to turn this into a left vs. right issue. But the subject of this thread is President Bush's support of the death penalty, so naturally the Bush-bashers have hijacked the thread and gone on political tyrades.

As much as I'd love for all of us to stand together as one, as you wish for, the fact remains that the death penalty, as well as abortion, are extremely serious and decisive issues. Dealing with life and death, it is completely understandable. But instead of bashing the president, calling him everything from the Anti-Christ to a bad Christian, we should be debating the issue in a mature way. We should respect each other's opinions regardless of their validity in our minds. Unfortunately, it seems harder and harder to do that on here lately. I think those who are rabbidly against the Iraq war have allowed it to consume themselves and have let it bleed over into other topics and other issues. And I feel that is unfair to the spirit of ATS and the purpose it serves here. So long as people like kegs call others' opinions "stupid," and people attack Bush for having beliefs, then debates over important issues on here will never get anywhere.

OK guys, let's discuss the topic not slam each other.

Until our legal system can be overhauled I think the death penalty should be put on hold. The idea was a person had to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't know about the rest of you but I think the Scott Peterson case was oozing with reasonable doubt. The entire case was a joke and the result was Scott getting convicted of first degree murder and receiving the death sentence. That is what they were able to stick on him in a case that was absolutely pathetic. There was no real credible evidence that he did it. He was convicted because he seemed like a sleeze. Is that the standard for the death penalty now? Trials are a circus and the jury pools aren't made up of the most qualified people. I think the lawyers pick the people they think will be easiest to manipulate. Do you really want your fate decided by someone in the jury pool that really has no clue about life?