Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by Nygdan
but it seems like in the comments section of the serpo.org page that lots of people on the list (thats where the comments are from no?) were rejecting the story outright, mainly because of the physics information presented.

How does one get on the list? It seems like there is a variety of people on it. Why did Mr. Martinez start the list, is he a ufologist, astronomer, intersted ameteur, etc? Seems like there are some heavy hitters on the list.

Some of the people posting comments on Victor's list are astrophysicists, and they of course focus on their speciality... as does everyone. There are also linguists, sociologists, ecologists, psychologists, and everyone checks out the data against their own area of expertise. This is understandable and only natural.

The Kepler's Laws debate arose because that's one thing people can get a solid handle on - either the supplied numbers seem to work in the known equations, or they don't, so it's a place to start. Evaluating the data in other disciplines is rather more difficult, and is more subject to opinion. There's also been a lot of discussion, for instance, about how easy it would be to learn an alien language, etc... fascinating stuff. I actually need to update the comments section, as there's a lot more that could be added to show the quality of the discussion that there has been so far.

Victor Martinez is a teacher of English, and is trained in journalism and PR. He's not a scientist and doesn't pretend to be. I have no idea how his personal interest in UFOs started, but he's pretty knowledgeable and over the years has developed extraordinary contacts with everyone in the field. He's in a central position inasmuch as those on his list are almost everyone (in fact, I can think of no exceptions as I write) who is a known "name" in UFOlogy.

He also has Intel operatives, ex-Intel operatives, military personnel, insiders of every description... and we know that Anonymous himself was on that list for a while before he started posting. I found myself on the list through a genuinely serendipitous accident, as I don't fit any of the above categories. (Victor also maintains lists on other issues, and I was on one of them. He transferred me to his UFO list in early November because we'd corresponded about one or two unconnected issues and he figured - correctly - that I'd be most interested and might be able to add some kind of value.)

It may be that because this forum consisted of such a prominent and expert group that Anonymous started posting there rather than writing to the New York Times... or it may have been an experiment, a first few steps into the public water to test it out. Or he may have hoped that others would come forward to support the story (which is what happened). Many hypotheses, nothing definitely known yet.

Best, Bill

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
There are many hypotheses and more data is needed. Few people on Victor's private list are dismissing the claims - there are too many indications that at least the core story is true.

I also think there could be some truth in the "core" of the story. But I also think there is some embellishment going on. Maybe the story is being altered to make it more acceptable to the public.

Don't take this as any criticism on your part, but the scientific aspects just don't add up, and there is no explanation on how the trip itself is even possible. I don't believe that for our first venture to another star system involving faster than light travel, would involve an expedition of twelve people for the period of ten years. It would be like saying a dozen people took a trip to Mars and stayed for a year, before we even put a man in orbit. I think if it were true there would have been a gradual progression leading up to the exchange, similar to what occurred in the Gemini and Apollo space programs

Was there an exchange program with an alien race? I think it may have been possible.

Is the story of an exchange program according to Anon the truth and nothing but the truth? I doubt it.

I guess this is what we are all here to try to figure out. I agree with what you said on Coast to Coast. It is time to see some sort of proof. I would like to see the pictures, but I think their needs to be some references to documents or something. There surely would have been references made in government documents that could be requested to verify this story. If Anon is who he says he is, surely he (or the group of 6) could provide a name to a document that could be obtained through the FOIA. If he does come through with the pictures, maybe you could request that Anon scan some of the documents that they have and get them posted. If the documents turned out to be real, then I think this would be the story of the century. Otherwise, without some proof, it will be put in the sci-fi section in the book store.

Just my 2 cents.

Enjoy your stay.

Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
There are many hypotheses and more data is needed. Few people on Victor's private list are dismissing the claims - there are too many indications that at least the core story is true.

Best, Bill

I recently listened to you on the Jerry Pippin radio show and that is what got me interested in the subject. As you say above, others that are deeply involved in UFOlogy are paying close attention to what is being disclosed. I was wondering since you currently travel back and forth from the States to the UK, have you noticed that you are being more closely watched? Or is it business as usual?

If I knew I was being watched, the spooks probably wouldn't be doing their job very well. But I have to assume that I am: that my phone calls are being recorded, my e-mails are being read, and that my whereabouts is being tracked. I'm not bothered about this at all. If the MIB came to my door, I'd invite them in and would put the kettle on. The best place to hide is in the open. If someone shoots me, that confirms the story. Meanwhile, I'm ignoring all that and am being a citizen who is doing and who has done nothing illegal. I think that because I'm "clean" this may be a problem for the Powers that Be - another reason why I stepped up to the plate.

I'm currently in the US (West Coast) and am returning to the UK for Christmas. I'm sure they'll let me out of the country, but it'll be interesting to see whether they let me back in again. If in the New Year I'm turned back at Immigration (which they can do with no reason supplied), then that'll be an interesting event which will up the ante.

Best, Bill

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
and we know that Anonymous himself was on that list for a while before he started posting.

Why don't you know who anonymous is then? He sends emails to the list through a proxy or something?

It may be that because this forum consisted of such a prominent and expert group that Anonymous started posting there rather

I am just curious as to how it works, Mr. Martinez has a group of people that he personally knows. One of them is Anonymous. He invites people to his mailing list. Anonymous decides to tell Mr. Martinez about his experiences and they decide to have it on list?

No doubting, just confused. Becuase the list is a closed thing, not something open like a bulletin board.

Originally posted by Hal9000

Don't take this as any criticism on your part, but the scientific aspects just don't add up, and there is no explanation on how the trip itself is even possible.

I met with Jack Sarfatti last week, and he made the point that such a journey should not have taken nine months (or seven)... it should have taken virtually no time at all. (He was perfectly serious. Jack is currently doing leading edge research into wormholes and time travel.)

Best, Bill

Mr Ryan,
I was not referring to you in my post.
I was referring to this unknown man that is making all of these statements.

I should've said it earlier, but I figured Bill would just be making a "wave on by" post...just stopping in to say "Hey," but I have to say, I'm impressed, Mr. Ryan. I, too, listened to the C2C show (big fan) sitting on the edge of my seat. I agree with George...this is one of the most interesting shows he's ever done and kudo's to you for your unbiased representation.

I can't wait to find out more about all of this!

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
I met with Jack Sarfatti last week, and he made the point that such a journey should not have taken nine months (or seven)... it should have taken virtually no time at all. (He was perfectly serious. Jack is currently doing leading edge research into wormholes and time travel.)

Best, Bill

I too was wondering about why it took 7 to 9 months travel time to Serpo.
If the Eben are so advanced then why can they not bend time and travel from point A to point B faster. I seem to recall something being mentioned about the Eben not measuring time as we do and able to move around time or through time in some way. I believe this came out during the interview of EBE2.


[edit on 16-12-2005 by WHOFLUNGGUM]

Thank you VERY much for your patience with us and for being so very responsive!!

I'm deeply grateful for your willingness to put it on the line for this effort.

Let's just hope you aren't being duped into some sort of disinformation effort!

I eagerly anticipate reading this string each evening - even more so than seeing the pics if/when they show up!

I want to know the truth and I'm running out of patience. Where are the pictures?
Why hasn't there been anymore posts from this unknown person?
He is probably sitting back getting a huge laugh out of all this attention he is getting.

Hello,

Please read this from latest Anonymous post :

My next posting of information will be the actual journal entries of one Team Member. Each Team Member was required to keep a journal. I will provide a partial journal entry (since the journals are attachments to the original report, they contain hundreds of pages of written entries).

First, keep in mind that it has never been question of the next post containing the pictures. I think the journal will probably come first, as Anonymous said. And i suppose it takes some time to write these entries, even partially, which are inside it. This may explain why there is no new post since a few days.

Again... Patience

Originally posted by Centrist

I will not discuss the existence or content of any future emails, however, unless Dan wishes for them to be public -- this is his story, after all.

I think it's important that Dan gets heard fairly and without obstruction,

Centrist did I miss something, but "sepro" is not Dan's story. Unless in the above stated emails he has told you otherwise.

Yes we know Dan has a story to tell, about coming disclosure but by all accounts, Serpo is not of his making... correct me if I am wrong..

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
and we know that Anonymous himself was on that list for a while before he started posting.

Why don't you know who anonymous is then? He sends emails to the list through a proxy or something?

It may be that because this forum consisted of such a prominent and expert group that Anonymous started posting there rather

I am just curious as to how it works, Mr. Martinez has a group of people that he personally knows. One of them is Anonymous. He invites people to his mailing list. Anonymous decides to tell Mr. Martinez about his experiences and they decide to have it on list?

No doubting, just confused. Becuase the list is a closed thing, not something open like a bulletin board.

I can understand the confusion - there are a lot of details to assimilate.

I don't know who Anonymous is, because I don't receive the e-mails. Victor Martinez receives the e-mails personally. Anyone could have written to Victor with a cover story asking to be put on his list; they may have been "sleepers", so to speak, always planning what would they would start to disclose a few months later, and meanwhile checking Victor out (and maybe the other list members, too).

The two e-mail addresses (which I don't know) - the 85% and the 13% - are not the kind with a person's name evident in their format, so there are no clues to his real identity.

To further make it trickier to follow the data trail, Victor uses Web TV as his e-mail system, which has no storage facility like Outlook or other computer-based e-mail clients. So he can't backtrack to check precisely how all this may have started. The original e-mails, months ago, are not on record.

Best, Bill

The bodies of the recovered Ebens from the crash site were autopsied. They were then returned to the Eben later afer contact had been made. I wonder how that felt about seeing their brothers butchered in such a way. It is claimed that the Eben have a family structure, they deal with their dead in a respectful manner. I wonder if anything was every said or explained to them as to why the bodies were treated in such a way? Seems to me that the Eban would not understand such an action if not fully explained to them. I know how I would feel if an Alien handed me one of my loved ones that had been disected. Just a thought!

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
Victor uses Web TV as his e-mail system, which has no storage facility like Outlook or other computer-based e-mail clients. So he can't backtrack to check precisely how all this may have started. The original e-mails, months ago, are not on record.

Best, Bill

So Victor is a moderator of List/newsgroup/ but uses a Web TV client for email access and a seperate computer to update the FTP newsgroup site ? Web TV with no stored caching sure can receive and respond Web Based Email sessions. But as far as I know has no FTP capabilities to store and upload data to the web, its a view only device for the most part. So for Victor to maintain the newsgroup he must also have a computer based web access. Since I know of no known port of the Web TV client to PC. Wouldn't this mean that Victor would have to re-enter all the email corespondance he receives onto his PC ? And additionally since Web TV does not afford the same type of encryption protection as a PC based digital signature encryption Why would someone with Top Level clearance communicate to a Web TV address that is essentially open to anyone with a network node on the same network to spook the communication. As well as leaving a digital record with the Access provider detailing very specific user information of the receiptant.

Where as on the PC he could employ such things as trace route spoofing hacks and IP generators to keep people from gleaning information without his knowledge from emails sent to him....

If I had DIA clearance I am not sure I would entrust highly sensitive information to a Web TV email address.

Originally posted by Shawnna
Thank you VERY much for your patience with us and for being so very responsive!!

I'm deeply grateful for your willingness to put it on the line for this effort.

Let's just hope you aren't being duped into some sort of disinformation effort!

I eagerly anticipate reading this string each evening - even more so than seeing the pics if/when they show up!

Shawnna, I follow my intuition extensively in my life. I'm currently in Seattle for a few days, due to fly out tomorrow (Saturday) morning. If you'd like to meet, it would be a pleasure... I think we're just a few miles apart at the moment. Do feel free to contact me on [email protected] (or the contact form on the Serpo website).

We could then, if you wanted to, share a coffee or two and then you could report back to the Forum with all your questions and answers. Just seemed like an easy thing to do, given how large this country is compared to the UK.

Best, Bill

Originally posted by Hal9000

... but the scientific aspects just don't add up, and there is no explanation on how the trip itself is even possible. I don't believe that for our first venture to another star system involving faster than light travel, would involve an expedition of twelve people for the period of ten years. It would be like saying a dozen people took a trip to Mars and stayed for a year, before we even put a man in orbit. I think if it were true there would have been a gradual progression leading up to the exchange, similar to what occurred in the Gemini and Apollo space programs

Hal9000, don't you think it's possible that an alien civilization that has been starfaring for thousands of years has discovered scientific knowledge that we currently lack? I, too, wish to know the nuts and bolts of how faster-than-light travel is possible. I've read all kinds of interesting stuff on electrogravitics, anti-gravity and quantum mechanics. I think it's highly likely that our Einsteinian view of the Universe is incomplete. And quantum physics is going to get us more understanding.

About sending 12 people for 10 years - What would you do in this situation: Aliens called the SuperCools come to Earth and introduce themselves to the US military, of which you're a part. They explain who they are, where they came from, and show you images of their homeworld and society. There are not words to describe the stunning level of advancement the SuperCools have in all aspects of their civilization. You see a people who are committed to higher ideals such as justice, civility, community, spirit, art and architecture, efficiency, you name it. Best of all, the beings' are so friendly and jovial it's wonderful to talk with them and be around them, thus living up to their SuperCool name. Every indication is that they're an honest, ethical people. "Oh, by the way," they say, "Would any of you like to come and hang out with us for 10 or 20 years? We think this would be a great way to get to know each other." Would you not jump at the chance to see what's out there? Or would you reply, "Hey, thanks, but we'd better wait about 50 or 60 years until we've gotten ourselves to the moon and maybe Mars." To me, this visiting the SuperCools NOW would be a no-brainer.

But the back to the Serpo story, the situation and offer is vastly different but the choice is the same: Visit an alien civilization NOW to live among them and learn about them - and see other planets! Not to mention the group going would one day be known in history. Wouldn't it be a huge mistake to say no to this?

Originally posted by robertfenix
So Victor is a moderator of List/newsgroup/ but uses a Web TV client for email access and a seperate computer to update the FTP newsgroup site ? Web TV with no stored caching sure can receive and respond Web Based Email sessions. But as far as I know has no FTP capabilities to store and upload data to the web, its a view only device for the most part.

Clarification: Victor receives the messages from Anonymous, and posts them to his private e-mail list - just like a regular e-mail, cc'd to all 100+ people. I just copy that information when it comes through and post it to the website, which I manage myself using Dreamweaver and FTP. Victor has no access to the website using his system, so you're correct in your understanding of the limitations of Web TV at his end. So Victor and I are necessarily working closely together.

It's possible that Victor may have been chosen for this BECAUSE he has Web TV... all possibilities should be considered. It may be advantageous to Anonymous et al that he has no means of reading headers or of storing large amounts of data over time.

Best, Bill

aw but the problem with that is how a Web TV email client works.

You see the emails go to the service provider and they sit in a big storage cue. Almost anyone can access this information. When you log onto to your Web TV account, you are not downloading the emails anywhere. You are just opening a viewer on the host system and are reading the data directly on the host system. Kind of like viewing the cable guide. The information is being piped down to your local box, "streamed" but is not transfered. In the processes of streaming the data to the local Web box anyone on the same network can capture the data, providied they have spliced into the network and "read" the data.

The information that is sent to his Web TV account remains in the public domain until the server wipe over process is initiated, (if it does even). The process of "deleting" the message from the Web TV account is just a marker on the server side that denotes the message as being read and then does not show you that message the next time you enter your "inbox".

An extreme privacy issue if he ever received something that was to remain "private" especial considering the content discussed on his news group.

It would be rather easy to retrieve the information being sent to him.

Mr Ryan,

Since you're now on the email list, could you possibly list a quick summary of some of the pro's and con's that are being discussed on there? I would never ask for names and specific quotes aren't necessary, but maybe a quick bullet-point list of some of the most interesting tidbits that are being thrown around for discussion?

Thanks!

Thank you for the gracious invitation - I've love to meet! I'm working in Seattle right now but will be available anytime after 5 PM.

You name the place - and I'll be there!

I tried to send a U2U message but can't 'cuz I'm new to this forum. Please reply with a location somewhere near Seattle or the airport area you'd like to meet and what time - I'll be there.

I'm tall, blond hair in a pony tail with jeans and a navy blue blazer. How will I recognize you?

To the rest of the experts here - please post a list of questions for me to ask. I'll do my best to post the answers along with my insight as well!

Thanks again Bill for the invitation!