Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by Zep Tepi

Bill then said he had no idea who Chapman was but he suspected he was not who he claimed to be in his first three posts (chapman > grandson > chapman) because of the spelling mistakes etc. prevalent in that third post.

I then made the post referenced above.

I honestly don't see where the confusion lies?

I don't either - what Zep Tepi explained makes perfect sense. Although Bill absolutely needs to respond to questions about Ron's Org immediately, and it's unfortunate that he didn't.

The best questions asked of him so far are right here and I believe it would be in his absolute best interest to answer THOSE questions for his own sake. I'm still hoping Bill can explain these concerns - I'm still pulling for him.

-rdube02

me too, but there are some disclosures that need addressing:

bill, can you ease the sceptical mind by explaining what a "game" consists of?:

"But a new game is starting, and all are invited to play. Part of the purpose of the day is to evaluate the level of active interest. [...]

Please reply to me at bill.ryan@******.net "

Bill,

Val has asked a pertinent question. I am not satisfied with the response either. And my earlier question compounds the issue.

Are you given information which is embargoed until you receive a go ahead? And how much are you holding now?

With the relevations of today, you are looking guilty by association and failure to respond to the allegations laid out is not helping.

By withholding pertinent information, you are becoming part of the problem of determing whether this is a hoax or not. Unless you are withholding that info in order that we find what you want.

You have to do better than calleywattle us here.

And it might be more open minded to allow that 80% has the possibility of being true.

[edit on 30-1-2006 by garyo1954]

Rep Sales

Originally posted by iamian
Am i the only one who thinks this as damaged ATS's reputation?

I doubt it, but I don't think it has.

The ATS staff has been pretty careful about maintaining a neutral editorial position on this and other topics.

ATS staff members, however, and in accordance with longstanding ATS tradition, have freely expressed their personal opinions about this story throughout.

The membership of ATS has responded in a myriad of unique ways to the story, which is one of the great strengths of ATS: we aren't a bunch of lockstepping kool-aid drinkers.

If anything, I think the ATS community is shining more brightly than ever before, and I'm proud to be an ATSers on this “red letter day”.

Talk The Talk

Meanwhile, in the venerable and time-honored spirit of crass, opportunistic cross-promotion of this story, I've started a podthread on the issues raised most recently in the Serpo Saga: ATS.X: Project Serpo: Revelation Or Hoax?

Whatever your “religion” regarding Project Serpo, its adherents and debunkers, and whether you wish to podcast or just chime in with text, I invite anyone who is interested to participate in this “metacommentary” and share your opinions.

Whatever the truth may be about Project Serpo itself, I am finding the “story about the story” to be almost as intriguing as the story itself, which is why I started that podthread.

Let's talk about it! And...

Caveat surfor.

.

and, sorry, but bill, do you still agree with hubbard on this one:

"It would be interesting to observe what would
happen if a large number of psychotics with
similar psychoses were allowed to create a
little world of their own. If they could remain
completely isolated from the rest of humanity for
a considerable length of time, it is not inconceivable
that they would begin to agree in some respects on
their reality and would actually create a different
system of reality from the one which has been
developed by the rest of mankind."

- LRH, "The Route to Infinity Course"

Originally posted by iamian
Am i the only one who thinks this as damaged ATS's reputation?

Hi Ian,

I think it's been pretty difficult for ATS to find a balance between not encouraging what could be a hoax and coming out and calling it a complete hoax. Fact can be and is often stranger than fiction afterall.

This is a lively forum that many of us enjoy, therefore closing it down by proclaiming SERPO a hoax would be counter-productive to what ATS proclaims to be about in encouraging the denial of ignorance.

Therefore, I feel ATS' reputation has been further enhanced by this debate and by having Bill Ryan on-board enhances the enjoyment and promotes the feeling of personal inclusion of members taking part in the breaking of the SERPO story.

Ian has anyone ever told you that you have the perfect face for RADIO!!

Best Wishes

J

Give the guy a break... he can't respond to everyone's posts 24/7.

And I don't see what the big deal is with Bill and Chap's 3rd post.

is bill even still viewing the thread after all these questions were asked? give the man some time, remember this a forum chat, and not java chat...replys by format arn't necessarily required to be answered by the quickness..if I'm not mistaken alot of user relize that. it would be different if he was still their but, he states that wasn't going to be here much longer. due to traveling.

"sincerely, Waffleprime"

Originally posted by worldwatcher

Originally posted by iamian
Am i the only one who thinks this as damaged ATS's reputation?

probably, ATS didn't create this whole Serpo thing, we're just watching, investigating and following along with many other boards, communities and individuals.

actually I think we're doing the best job out there of looking at this with an objective and open mind.

I still believe in aliens and ufos.

IMO...ATS functions on the principle of an active, regulated and civil debate. When issues the size of Titor and Serpo come along it has the effect of creating huge ripples within the community, as we can see by the response.

I've followed this thread continually and noticed a concerted desire to find holes in the fabric of the story as it unfolds. That's what is supposed to happen if we are to deny ignorance. However, throwing the baby out with the bath-water is counterproductive. The Chapman chap(s) are the bathwater...Bill Ryan and the Serpo story are the baby. We should learn to be more careful and, as SO has pointed out, suspect a hoax rather than declare one. Too many seem to be in a hurry for closure when so much is still pending. (pics and reams of data)

I'm with worldwatcher...I believe in the existance of alien life forms, that they may have interstellar travel capabilities and that it is only a matter of time before 'disclosure' happens. Perhaps Serpo.org is the vehicle, perhaps not...but, what I'd really hate to see is this vastly interesting thread squashed for no other reason than the spoiling efforts of a bored university student.

Bill Ryan has not diminished in my estimation and I'm looking forward to much more from him.
.

Originally posted by Kruel
Give the guy a break... he can't respond to everyone's posts 24/7.

And I don't see what the big deal is with Bill and Chap's 3rd post.

I gather the consensus is that he made reference to it, like he had read it. But didn't actually read it, or something like that. Honestly this has gotten out of control here on ATS. Every little thing is suspect and no one is above suspicion.

I haven't felt thrills and chills like this since Find the Rings! SO and others have said it before but it bears mentioning again, This thread represents ATS at its finest!
The internet is being literally scoured by this community to prove OR disprove what has been presented. Our people are collaborating and sharing information in new ways thanks to this forum.
I thank everyone who has contributed to the "meat" of this thread, keep up the good work.
I feel sorry for the guys trying to prepare the summary post, how do you even begin to keep up?
Hoax or not is irrelevant, to me this thread is a joyride!

Originally posted by Majic
Meanwhile, in the venerable and time-honored spirit of crass, opportunistic cross-promotion of this story, I've started a podthread on the issues raised most recently in the Serpo Saga: ATS.X: Project Serpo: Revelation Or Hoax?

Nice Podcast, Majic! Great thread started there And I agree fully -- this IS ATS at its finest. Conspiracy theories getting bunked and debunked by the moment

Originally posted by Valhall
Okay, so I've just been sent a u2u by some one that claims at some point in the night you knew about the third chapman post.

And apparently you and at least what 3 or 4 other members on this board had discussions either by phone or email or whatever...am I right so far?

What I'm wondering, and I've got to be real blunt here and tell you what I'm severely PISSED OFF about it...

why wasn't anyone that could warn the members (i.e. SO, or you could have requested Zep Tepi, or even one of the other members who was aware of your concerns about the "fake" chapman)

WHY...wasn't that information immediately passed to this community?

Do you not feel a stitch of stewardship here? Or is this just your happy little playground?

Valhall: listen up. You are both out of order and do yourself no credit as a moderator. I have already answered the question about the "third chapman post". I read it myself before I left SF but had no time to reply. Since then I've been traveling almost continuously and this is the first internet access I've had. I'd prepared my response about that on the plane and posted it as soon as I had the opportunity.

Re your ideas of proprietory ownership of information: I have bad news for you. No-one owns this information. Not me, nor anyone else, on or off of ATS.

I've had discussions by e-mail, phone, and/or personal meetings with quite a significant number of people during the last two and a half months. Do you think this forum is the only medium in which the debate is taking place? I reserve the right to communicate with whom I choose, and about whatever I choose. This forum does not own me or anyone else. These are people you're talking about, not ATS possessions. I was debating and researching this issue offline with people long before I was invited to join in the discussions here.

I'm conducting my own ongoing research into certain things, and I expect many other people are too. I'll report back to ATS when I have something interesting to say. To be premature with that is to be irresponsible and to let all kind of rumors fly which are very hard to pack back into the box once out.

A good example of that is the last IP address conjecture (when the IP address that seemed like a DoD server was actually a software version number). I fully support Centrist and admire him as an analyst with considerable intellect and maturity, and this is absolutely not a personal criticism of him. That's not why I cite this example. But that little case study is quite a good reason why it's wiser not to release research until it's concluded – unless there are clear caveats that it may be wrong or incomplete.

Your own speculations about whether or not I was a London-based Science Fiction writer are another example of that. It would have been more constructive for you to have conducted your research behind the scenes and then asked questions (or junked the findings) once you were as sure of your ground as you could be. It's a prefect example of what we're talking about.

Re the Anonymous/LANL IP address, I'm pretty convinced that they are from the same computer. This is a tentative personal opinion. But I'm not absolutely sure. I and others are researching that and allied issues, and we'll report back when the research is done. For that we need more time. But in the meanwhile, I wanted to cite that as another reason to remind us all that casual and trivial dismissal of Serpo as a "hoax" may be premature.

Valhall, does this all make better sense? If not, we're in trouble here regarding what this forum is about and how to conduct an intelligent debate.

Best, Bill

How many ppl believed this?
I cant believe it got past two pages, these ppl have made fun out of you,
ppl that i've come to respect on ATS have been blinded in this whole hysteria, for me they now have no credibility, for that i'm sad, those of you that are proud of your detective work pat yourself on the back, becouse what you have achieved is the eqivilant to a sunday suppliment word puzzle,

bill, you must be tired!

can you address the questions above about your involvement with ron'sorg.

sorry to pester.

I just quickly read through those last 20 pages of utter garbage (except for a few posts by Centrist, Bill, and someone who pointed out how highly unlikely it is that "Chapman" is doing academic work)

I am amazed at how many people here are easily swayed by ONE poster's "confession". = (Classic Troll BS)

So much for "Deny Ignorance"...

Something that has also bothered me (and Bill also, as he pointed out) is the promoting of this thread as a "Hoax". Gives the wrong idea off the bat, when this is far from over.
That is not "Denying Ignorance", more like embracing it.
This is starting to remind me of American politics with all the baseless label slapping.
I am still quite comfortable on the fence.

Thank you Bill for forwarding this and the second part of the log entries after the team's alleged landing on Project Serpo. I have to admit to being disappointed with what I read since I thought this was possibly a genuine disclosure initiative where there may have been a little disinformation thrown in to maintain plausible deniability. I now see the Serpo information more in lines of a fictionalized version of events that has far less accurate information in it than I previously thought. The main reason for my changed position is the communication modalities discussed in the log entries between the EBEs and the human team. It is reported that they communicate via translators, and that the EBEs communicate among themselves by speech. Furthermore, we are also told that the EBEs are capable of above light speed travel which accounts for the rapid flight time between Earth and Serpo. The problem is that in all the whistleblower and experiencer testimonies I have read, the EBEs are generally described in terms of communicating through telepathy, and that the thought-technology interface plays a critical role in above light speed travel.

The most reliable source for these conclusions is the testimony of Philip Corso who discussed his recollections of the mind-technology interface used by the EBEs. He argues that this is the principle behind the propulsion and navigation systems used by the EBEs, and that this is also a part of their communication system. Similarly whistleblowers such as Clifford Stone and Charles Hall report about the telepathic communication modalities used by EBEs, where communication by verbal speech is not common among the EBEs. When we examine the Betty and Barney Hill case, generally accepted as the first reliable case of human abduction by EBEs, we again have the Hill's reports of telepathic communication by EBEs. Furthermore, Betty Hill identified the star system of Zeta Reticulum as the home of the EBEs which gives us an idea of the communication modalities of the EBEs from Zeta Reticulum or any planet in it such as the alleged Serpo.

I have difficulty recalling the testimony of any 'whistleblower' or 'experiencer' who communicates that EBEs only communicate verbally as described in the Serpo logs. If one reads Sci Fi books, one see that most authors describe EBEs as communicating verbally which is clearly an anthropomorphic generalization. When it comes to the real thing, verbal communication among EBEs is very rare from the reports of whistleblowers/experiencers. In fact, I would argue that any EBE capable of greater than light speed travel must have the necessary telepathic abilities to control the advanced technologies necessary for this modality of transportation. This is something that Corso discussed as the stumbling block of reverse engineering EBE craft since the pilot was a necessary part of the propulsion/navigation systems.

This takes me to the material that you've circulated below. In numerous passages we are told that the EBE's communicate in an EBEN langague, and that a translator is needed for human-EBEN communication. The striking clue for me as to the veracity of the Serpo material is the alleged puzzlement of the EBE translatoer, EBE-2, who often has difficulty understanding the intent of the human team member communicating. For example, we have passages such as:

"I ask her abet the creature we saw, I ask if that was some other type of Eben. Ebe2 seems confused. She asked me what creature. I used the word creature. Maybe that was an insult or maybe she didn't know the word. I pointed to the thing at the other end of the building. She then saw what I meant. Ebe2 said, no Eben, just visitor. Like you, pointing to me."

If we take as an axiom that any greater than light speed faring EBE civilization has developed telepathic abilities, necessary for controlling the navigation/propulsion systems, what occurred above would make little sense. Telepathic abilities from all accounts I've researched are a reliable means of communicating ideas and concepts so it would be extremely unlikely that a genuinely telepathic being would be confused so often as reported in the logs. Again, the reports from numerous whistleblowers and experiencers are that the EBEs read the minds of their human subjects and either reply back telepathically or in a verbal manner.

Then we have passages referring to EBEs communicating verbally in an EBE language:

"Many Ebens are inside. They look at us with some glares. But we just walk in and around. One Eben comes up to us and speaks but in Eben. He seems to be telling us something. He points to the ceiling and then to our heads. Maybe he is telling us to cover our heads. We must find Ebe2."

Again, most reports by whistleblowers/experiencers are that EBEs communicate telepathically and silence is the common situation when around them. Travis Walton for example tried to communicate verbally with the human looking EBEs that allegedly were a part of his 'abduction' experience, yet they did not reply verbally and communicated among themselves in silence.

After noting the repeated references to the communication modalities used by the EBEs, and no mention of telepathic communication, I would have to conclude that the Serpo information is a fictionalized account of a human EBE team traveling to Serpo. Perhaps the author/sources are trying to fill in the details by fictionalizing what might have happened in a genuine human team traveling to Serpo. In my view the communication modalities described in the Serpo logs are a clue that this is largely fictionalized account by an author of some events that may have occurred. While there may be some truth to an actual human team traveling to planet Serpo in the system of Zeta Reticulum, the alleged log entries that have been circulated are fictionalized accounts of what happened. This gives me much less confidence in the veracity of the Serpo material that is being released, and the integrity of the sources releasing this information.

Feel free to circulate this to your list.

Aloha, Michael Salla

Thats not funny at all, infact that looks like ridicule to me. The moderators around here are quite trigger happy when it comes to rules of "no ridicule". I may be wrong




(dp)

[edit on 30-1-2006 by Unplugged]

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
Valhall, does this all make better sense? If not, we're in trouble here regarding what this forum is about and how to conduct an intelligent debate.

Best, Bill

ALL that and he still doesn't answer the Ron's Org issue. Come on Bill - I expected more from you....

Clear your name so we can move ahead with the disclosure with your record set straight.

-rdube02

[edit on 30-1-2006 by rdube02]