Do Jews go to heaven?

Originally posted by Seekerof
How about those that have not heard of Jesus, had no contact with Chirstianity, etc? I guess they go to hell and for what?

No, everyone is held responsible for what they know.

Really?
If I was an Indian in the Brazilian rain forest and never came into contact with the outside world, nor anyone within the tribe, how am I responsible for coming to know Christ?

Do the angels in heaven now drop leftlets from heaven?





seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
If I was an Indian in the Brazilian rain forest and never came into contact with the outside world, nor anyone within the tribe, how am I responsible for coming to know Christ?

Exactly my point, they aren't held responsible. Again they are responsible for what they know.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Do the angels in heaven now drop leftlets from heaven?

Nice attempt at being confrontational Seek. Just to let you know it will take much more than that friend.

Confrontational?
No.
An attempt at humor. Probably.

The question and situation/condition is legit.





seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
The question and situation/condition is legit.

As is my repeated answer.

How about explain your reference to they will be held responsible for what they know?

Are you indicating a provision or condition that circumvents that one can only get to heaven only thru Jesus?


And getting back to the issue of Jews and Heaven, perhaps this is what Jews believe?
What do Jews say happens when a person dies? Do Jews believe in reincarnation? In hell or heaven? Purgatory?






seekerof

Matthew 27:50-52 "And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life."

Hebrews 10:19-22 "Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water."

So, Jake, we do have a new Covenant with God. In the OT, the high priests used to go behind the curtain in the Temple to intercede for the people. By this curtain being torn in half, it represents God breaking the old covenant and the new Covenant is now in place.

Could anyone - absolutely anyone at all show a verse in the Greek NT where it says that people need faith in Jesus Christ to be granted salvation.

It simply isn't there.

I didn't feel the need to point out that the jewish belief in heaven probably came before jesus so, in reality, the question should be, do catholics get into heaven?

"We interrupt the program "Do Jews go to heaven" currently in progress to provide this important side note:"

All messages recieved by humanity were delivered by messengers.

If said messengers descended, they came down.
If said messengers fell, they descended.

Questioning the Intentionality of the messengers?
Questioning the Intentionality of the message?
Questioning the Intentionality of the ones recieving the messages?

"We now return you to the programming already in progress" .. . ..

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
Could anyone - absolutely anyone at all show a verse in the Greek NT where it says that people need faith in Jesus Christ to be granted salvation.

It simply isn't there.

John 14:6: legei autw Ihsouv, Egw eimi h odov kai h alhqeia kai h zwh; oudeiv erxetai prov ton patera ei mh di' emou.

url

Originally posted by truthseeka Are Jews, despite not being Christians, allowed into heaven?

The TaNaCh says no >Isa. 64:6
There is no one holy like the Holy One of Israel!
The gospel is eternal (Rev 14:6). Abraham and everyone else that was "pre-Jesus" (pre-YAHSHUA) were justified in YAHVEH's sight by faith in YAHVEH'S Salvation (aka YAHSHUA).

-MESSIANIC Prophecy-
Audios
www.bible-history.com...
Over 300 Listed Here
hopeofisrael.net...
Seven Festivals
www.hebroots.com...

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
Could anyone - absolutely anyone at all show a verse in the Greek NT where it says that people need faith in Jesus Christ to be granted salvation.

It simply isn't there.

John 14:6: legei autw Ihsouv, Egw eimi h odov kai h alhqeia kai h zwh; oudeiv erxetai prov ton patera ei mh di' emou.

url

Ha HA !!!

I don't read Greek, what does it say?

Do Jews go to heaven?

Here was the point of providing the link that I did:
When asking such a question, is the question of heaven based upon a Christian heaven? An Islamic heaven? A Jewish heaven? etc.

Most of the positions given within this topic were given from a Christian viewpoint or position, so obviousy, the reference to "heaven" implies/insinuates a Christian heaven. A Christian is what? A follower of Christ. Again, hence, the use of "heaven" implies a Christian heaven. Christianity is a religion. Did Jesus have a religion?

All semantics aside: the reference to "...no man comes to the Father, except by me...," may well possibly imply not by the Son of God, not God made flesh, not the literal man called Jesus, not the literal physical being, but only by way of following like [reference to "my"] teachings, examples, deeds, and actions? This would be inline with the Jewish Torah and the Koran [teachings and examples], as well.


Just some thoughts.




seekerof

[edit on 29-11-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Seekerof
If I was an Indian in the Brazilian rain forest and never came into contact with the outside world, nor anyone within the tribe, how am I responsible for coming to know Christ?

Exactly my point, they aren't held responsible. Again they are responsible for what they know.

God will give knowledge of Himself.


Proverbs 2:1-6
1 My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding,
3 and if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD
and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom,
and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.

Separation from God isn't necessarily from rejecting Christ, (although that is certainly a major part of it) it is by their sins that a person is condemned.
Every person (except Christ) has sinned at least once in their life. Romans 3:23

So a person who has lived in a Brazillian rainforest all their life and has never heard the Gospel still knows in his heart that he has sinned.

Romans 2:15 ”…since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them."

Conscience~

Con = with
Science= knowledge

If a person who has never even heard of the 10 Commandments tells a lie, he still does so 'with knowledge' that it is wrong.

Thanks for those Christian references, just me 2.

Serves to again make my point concerning my last commentary: is this reference to "heaven" a reference to a/the Christian heaven? According to the link I gave concerning Jewish belief in reference to heaven, which is inclusive and which is exclusive?






seekerof

[edit on 29-11-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
Could anyone - absolutely anyone at all show a verse in the Greek NT where it says that people need faith in Jesus Christ to be granted salvation.

It simply isn't there.

"Faith" and "belief" are synonyms for one another. How about John 3:16. I don't know the greek version but check it out in your greek Bible and see what it says.

John 3:16 (in Greek)
Outwv gar hgaphsen (5656) o qeov ton kosmon, wste ton uion ton monogenh edwken, (5656) ina pav o pisteuwn (5723) eiv auton mh apolhtai (5643) all' exh (5725) zwhn aiwnion.

(Thanks for the link JJ!)

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I don't read Greek, what does it say?

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

Point by point:

legei is the present tense of the word lego, which means to say.
autw is a pronoun depicting either himself, herself, themselves, itself, he, she, it or the same.
[ o ] wasn't included because I thought it was a footnote before looking into the meaning of each term This word (pronounced Ho) means this, that, or these
Ihsouv is Jesus
Egw means I, me or my.
Eimi means to be, to exist, to happen, or to be present.
h is another way of writing Ho, so it means this, that, or these
odov has a few meanings:

1. properly
1. a way
1. a travelled way, road
2. a travellers way, journey, travelling
2. metaph.
1. a course of conduct
2. a way (i.e. manner) of thinking, feeling, deciding

kai means either and, also, even, indeed or but.
alhqeia is another long one, so I'll quote the lexicon again:

1 objectively

1. what is true in any matter under consideration
1. truly, in truth, according to truth
2. of a truth, in reality, in fact, certainly
2. what is true in things appertaining to God and the duties of man, moral and religious truth
1. in the greatest latitude
2. the true notions of God which are open to human reason without his supernatural intervention
3. the truth as taught in the Christian religion, respecting God and the execution of his purposes through Christ, and respecting the duties of man, opposing alike to the superstitions of the Gentiles and the inventions of the Jews, and the corrupt opinions and precepts of false teachers even among Christians

2 subjectively

1. truth as a personal excellence
1. that candour of mind which is free from affection, pretence, simulation, falsehood, deceit

zwh means life, either as a state (being alive) or life to the fullest, a real, genuine active and vigorous life that will last forever.
oudeiv means no one or nothing
erxetai means either to come physically, to come into being, or to go or follow
prov means either to the advantage of, at, near or by, or to, twards, with, or with regard to.
ton is yet another spelling of Ho
Just going to link to the definition of patera, as it is rather lengthy
ei means if or whether
mh means no or not lest
di' means through
emou means...You guessed it, a variation on Emou, which is me, my, mine

So a direct translation would be:

"Says him that Jesus, I am that way and that truth and that life; no one [nothing] comes to that Father if not lest through me."

I'm assuming Simon_the_byron can read Greek since he was asking about it and can confirm this translation. My translation came from studylight's online Greek Lexicon. I don't know Greek yet