Video: US mercenaries Randomly Shooting Iraqis

I think for their hard work in defeating illogical thinking, a few of these are in order. As to Archangel, do put up a correct title next time, because it is completely wrong.

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[edit on 29-11-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by AgentSmith
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Is there anything we should be looking for? I was looking forward to hearing them speak properly but they don't talk

I dont know, I figure some of these rocket scientists could do something that allows us to learn something new from it. I have no vlume where I am so I cannot study it just yet myself.

All I could hear was what sounded like an MP5, and probably an M4, and something else shooting until almost at the very end when you hear the screech of tires, and see the car appear in the last couple seconds of the video.

I think for their hard work in defeating illogical thinking, a few of these are in order. As to Archangel, do put up a correct title next time, because it is completely wrong.

The denialists defending these savages are illogical, and the title is quite accurate.

The denialists defending these savages are illogical, and the title is quite accurate.

I see you still do not get it, no one is defending “these savages”, we are merely saying the way you’re trying to tie in the US with “these savages” is illogical and does not make any sense.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

The denialists defending these savages are illogical, and the title is quite accurate.

nobody's denying that what is being done in the video is wrong. the people involved should all be held accountable for their actions. however, you went the propaganda route and titled the thread US Mercenaries even though your own source for the info says the folks involved were not americans.

I wonder how you'd react if every time an act of terror was committed, instead of calling the individuals suicide bombers or hijackers or terrorists they simply said muslims.

as in muslims blew up three hotels in jordan today, killing many more muslims

a muslim blew himself up on a bus today killing 6 and wounding 40.

I think you'd be offended at the broad generalization that all terrorists are muslims.

well, as an american who doesn't necessarily agree with the war or the practices of the folks in iraq, I take offense to your branding them as americans when they are clearly not from the states.

[edit on 29-11-2005 by Crakeur]

I have yet to see any "denialists" in this thread. Nobody is saying that this was right for them to do, all that is being said is that they WERE NOT AMERICANS. The propoganda machine is in full swing and once again, the Anti-US crowd is determined to blame the US for this too. I personally think that some mercinary units are good, and needed. Others are just places where people that like to torture small animals go so that they can shoot at people whenever they feel like it go. This is, as far as we know now, an isolated incident carried out by NON-AMERICANS, and is being investigated by the company. The US or the UK has no power to punish these people, however the company can take steps, and their own country can and probably will prosecute them. Yes, the US hired them. No, they are NOT US mercinaries, is that so hard to understand for you?

Yes, the US hired them. No, they are NOT US mercinaries, is that so hard to understand for you?

If they had been US Soldiers they would be considered US forces no matter their national origin.

Soldiers are defined by the nation they serve.

Why not the same for Mercs?

US Soldiers - US Mercs

Both represent the US State.

Soldiers represent the country they serve because they're FROM that country. Mercinaries represent their COMPANY, which is hired by different countries.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Soldiers represent the country they serve because they're FROM that country. Mercinaries represent their COMPANY, which is hired by different countries.

The companies simply arrange the contract.

The Mercs serve those who pay, and give the orders which would be the US STATE in this case.

The Merc in question had been a soldier in the UK military before becoming a Merc in Iraq, but he was a SA national.

Soldiers are not always from the countries they serve, and neither are the mercs.

The denialists will try to erase any connection to America, but that is the ONLY connection to them being in Iraq randomly shooting at innocent civilians.

If America had not signed the contracts, and written the checks these guys would not have been there.

They are US Mercs.

And the anti-US propagandists will find any reason at all to blame the US for everything that happens. If someone has a heart attack and dies, the US is to blame for being there. If someone trips and breaks an ankle, the US is to blame. Everything that happens is our fault.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
And the anti-US propagandists will find any reason at all to blame the US for everything that happens. If someone has a heart attack and dies, the US is to blame for being there. If someone trips and breaks an ankle, the US is to blame. Everything that happens is our fault.

Blame them for the results of their actions.

The US state did not take any action that resulted in someone tripping and breaking their ankle, but they did sign contracts and write checks that resulted in Mercs under their command randomly shooting Iraqis.

BTW- I'm not anti-US.

I am against the wrongs the US STATE is commiting.

And whether the US signed the checks to pay them or not, it was THEIR DECISION to go out and shoot at other cars. THEY are responsible for their actions and decisions.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
And whether the US signed the checks to pay them or not, it was THEIR DECISION to go out and shoot at other cars. THEY are responsible for their actions and decisions.

As with actions of US Soldiers the US STATE holds the responsibility for the actions of the Mercs.

What people blame America for in Iraq includes both what the soldiers, and the Mercs do.

The differences in their legal standing does not change the source authority which is the same for both.

They are US Mercs.

On a semi-related note, here is a video I found of a Blackwater marksman for all interested.

No graphic violence.

Blackwater Sniper

I wonder how you'd react if every time an act of terror was committed, instead of calling the individuals suicide bombers or hijackers or terrorists they simply said muslims.

as in muslims blew up three hotels in jordan today, killing many more muslims

a muslim blew himself up on a bus today killing 6 and wounding 40.

I think you'd be offended at the broad generalization that all terrorists are muslims.

The Moral Parallel you are trying to create does not apply.

I was not calling all Americans Mercs.

The Mercs work for America making them American forces.

If Russia sent Mercs to Chechnya you would call them Russian Mercs no matter where they came from.

The same for any nation employing Mercs anywhere in the world.

Unless it was America doing it.....

Denialist double standards never fail to amaze me.

I fail to see the issue here? So some merc's are killing some locals. Does anyone one really know who the locals are? All too often the merc's do what needs to be done.

Originally posted by thermopolis
I fail to see the issue here? So some merc's are killing some locals. Does anyone one really know who the locals are? All too often the merc's do what needs to be done.

This is not one of those 'all too often' incidents.

Were there justification for his actions it would have been all over the news already.

Failure to address these blatant warcrimes by US Merc forces can only be perceived as admission of guilt.

Sadism is the only excuse.

I'll go on record first and say that from that video, that could be 3 rednecks from texas blasting away at innocent civies or it could be that this car chasing them fired at them first, or heck it could be terrorists shooting eachother. Point of the matter is you can't tell crap from that video. Even if you guys debate till the end of the earth and figure out that by the scar on this guys arm, he's definatly a mexican merc working under U.S. contract, you know what's going to happen? Nothing that's right. Nada...big 0. You never see any of these guys, both those cars are probably long gone and your not going to prosecute anyone. Mercs are definatly a different kind of folk and just from one sight :

'Cowboy operators'

The field of private security is unregulated, and alongside the more reputable companies, gun-slinging, cowboy contractors - whether foreign or Iraqi - are reported to be setting up shop Iraq.

Established companies dislike competition from smaller entrepreneurs, but also worry that their reputations may be damaged by the gung-ho approach of some of the newer firms.

The lack of regulation means mercenaries can often act with impunity.

Stories abound of heavy handed and trigger-happy behaviour. There are reports that some private security companies claim powers to detain people, erect checkpoints without authorisation and confiscate identity cards.

link

now, if I was making 550 dollars a day as a merc in iraq somewhere and anyone even came NEAR me....your dead. I'm there for the money, I could care less what you think of me. I want my money, I want to live and I want to go home and spend my money.

But just to get back on track, you can't tell crap from that video.

The blame is purly on those guys doing what they are doing. One step up and it's the security firm they work for that needs to watch what it's people do.

If I hire a company to build a house and one of the roofers throws hammers at passing dogs and someone catches it on video, Does that mean this company can't build houses well and that the company is to blame? Or does it mean that there was some crazy ass throwing hammers at dogs that just happens to work for a company I hired to build a house?

It certainly not MY fault he threw hammers at dogs even though I hired that company for a job.

-DT

Originally posted by ArchAngelIf Russia sent Mercs to Chechnya you would call them Russian Mercs no matter where they came from.

if russia sent mercs to chechnya, they would be russian mercs in chechnya. if they came from somewhere else, they would be mercs from somewhere else in chechnya. who they work for and where they are from are two different things.

in the case you are referring to, the one guy was a SOUTH AFRICAN MERC working for a BRITISH SECURITY COMPANY hired buy the US. They are still a british company and the guy is still a south african merc. I think he even served in the British military, not the US military so he is, at most, a BRITISH MERCENARY.