NEWS: Bus commuter vs. Big Brother. Papers, please!

Originally posted by SpartanLeonidas
Okay, someone hasn't been doing their homework...

After 9/11, the FBI, Police Departments, CIA, & whoever else, do not have to have a warrant to search any residence, any person, or even a valid reason to stop you. In the "terrorist" society we now live in, they can stop you, & request your paperwork for any reason, or no reason at all.

SpartanLeonidas that statement is simply not true. They still have to have probable cause and they still have to adhere to the non arbitrariness precedents concerning searches & siezures, or they have to have consent or implied consent.

What is the big problem with showing ID? This is nothing new. When I was in the Navy in the mid 1980's the local bus made a loop on to the Naval Air Station in Jacksonville. The original methot was that the bus would stop and pick up a Marine guard and you had to show ID to get off of the bus. After the Marines were replaced by private security the people not going on to the base had to get off the bus and then get back on after the bus made its loop on to the base. You are required to show ID now to enter Federal property. I had to on Friday to enter the Federal building here in Pittsburgh just to buy some books at the Printing office. I don't see anything sinister about this and I think that there is more to this story than meets the eye.

Put this person on another bus and send her to hang out with Sheehan in Texas.

If there is a legitimate reason for a search at any time and there is no need to incite panic by explaining why ID must be presented, why not hand it over. She could have simply handed it over, and there would be no issue for anyone to attmept to blow out of proportion. AS was mentioned in another psot, if she was pulled over by the police, would she do the same thing? If she did, she could be charged with obstruction, and if she got loud or physical, it could become a felony....and for what, not showing an ID when requested.

This is not about your rights, but common sense. Remember, this is still America, and last time I checked, I could travel ANYWHERE I wanted without papers.

A quick story, a friend took a wrong turn in Tampa post 9/11, and wound up at the gate at Macdill AFB, which can happen easily if you do not know your way around Tampa. AS he attempted a 3 point turn, he was approached by 2 airmen, carrying M-16's, and They asked him to stop the car and asked for his ID. He told them he had a few drinks, took a wrong turn and he checked out and he was on his way. Would you consider this illegal? What if he was a terrorist? This is not paranoia, but again common sense. The same people who scream liberal rights violations are the same who cry "Why didn't the government stop 9/11?".

Folks, we live in a world that is ever changing, so if I was asked to show my ID for any reason I would, so could go home to my nice safe house, son, wife, cable, internet, X box, etc.

I still say even if you have something to hide, never give away to your opposition the idea that you do not conform and give them the ID and do not create the thought of suspicion. Common sense.

Yes, it does make sense to just give them your ID, but why should we? Just because they say so? Just because we might be ther terrorist they're searching for? I say horse puckey. This is nothing more than inciting irrational fears & making them see "invisible ghosts" or more aptly named "straw adversary" into a mass public that's ignorant & naive.

By making people see what isn't there, & chasing after these things, they (the Government) are performing on the World stage like a magician, with the "look at this, while I do that". If you've seen a magician on stage, there's almost always a "lovely assistant" dressed in next to nothing, which is meant to be eye candy to attract your attention elsewhere while he's using the ole "hand is quicker than the eye" technique.

"Terrorism" (I am not saying there aren't actual terrorists, but they will be expanding the definition of "terrorism" into covering computer hackers, revolutionist, people like Timothy McVeigh, what happened at Waco, Ruby Ridge, Martin Luther King Jr speaking for equal rights for all people regardless of color by peaceful protests or marches on Washington)is the eye candy, & the Police/Military/UN Forces are the magicians.

Think about it, there were no terrorists before the 1960's, & they didn't start hijacking our buses or airplanes until we started sticking our noses into Middle Eastern politics. The government planned for this, they picked on the Middle Eastern people, sticking our noses in where they weren't wanted, just to stir up a hornets nest on purpose.

This is just another control mechanism, to get people to bow down to the man, & kiss his ass.

No, I have nothing to hide, quite the opposite, I want to share knowledge, but I shouldn't have to feel like I'm in the 1950's Russia, standing in a bread line for 7 hours to get 3 day old crusty bread & to show My papers to prove who I am at every road block, which will eventually be every 5 miles or so.

You are aware of the fact that this has been going on for DECADES right? LONG before terrorism became a concern in the US. They have been checking ids to get on military bases, and other federal installations since the 50s or 60s at least, if not a lot earlier than that. This is nothing new.

I know the Military does that, that's not what I was referring too. I was referring to the fact that it will spread out, & keep spreading towards other areas of the Nation.

Sooner or later, if you walk in a 7-11 & look at a Police Officer, while he's getting his coffee, at all, he will demand your papers, then it will be hold out your hand while I scan the microchip, to get your identity.

I don't think a country that looks like Minority Report meets Enemy of the State will be a good thing. Can you honestly say that you do? If you can, please show Me your papers, so I know who not to talk to anymore.

Whether it has been going on for two days, two decades or two hundred years is absolutley irrelevent.

What is relevant is whether or not the people of this country (a supposed democracy) wish to be carded and show their papers every time some new hot shot wants to make a point.

If not then it is wrong. (remeber DEMOCRACY ya ya I know we arent)

It wasn't some new hot shot trying to make a point. It was a security guard making sure that only AUTHORIZED PEOPLE were entering the area. Democracy (which the US technically isn't ANYWAY) doesn't mean that anyone can go anywhere they want to whenever they want.

[edit on 11/29/2005 by Zaphod58]

Think about it, there were no terrorists before the 1960's, & they didn't start hijacking our buses or airplanes until we started sticking our noses into Middle Eastern politics. The government planned for this, they picked on the Middle Eastern people, sticking our noses in where they weren't wanted, just to stir up a hornets nest on purpose.

They didn't start hijacking planes until we had them, and the world of politics became very enraged. In other times throughout history, 'terrorists' have been called freedom fighters, guerillas or even freedom fighters. A terrorist is defined to me by the actions that are used, terror to instill fear.


This women was on a bus on Federal land, enough said. She was not trying to get into Wal-Mart, or buy gas and asked for ID. Gut instinct tells me this is a set up, and she knoew exactly what she was doing.

This is not Big Brother, this is our country trying to take steps to never again allow a 9/11 or OK city bombing.

Originally posted by esdad71
This is not Big Brother, this is our country trying to take steps to never again allow a 9/11 or OK city bombing.

I say it IS Big Brother, regardless of why. If taking steps to never again allow a 9/11 or OK City bombing means trading our freedoms for the illusion of safety, I'd rather have the risk of more bombings. Personally I think that a government that can't or won't even control its southern border has very little hope of stopping a well-planned and implimented terrorist attack and probably for the very same reasons. This means that we're losing our freedoms for nothing since we haven't been and won't really be any more safe than we were before.

BTW, I've been to the USGS office at the Denver Federal Center many times, and never was I required to show ID to enter. Of course, this was before 9-11 and our fledgling police state, so I'm sure its different now.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
It wasn't some new hot shot trying to make a point. It was a security guard making sure that only AUTHORIZED PEOPLE were entering the area. Democracy (which the US technically isn't ANYWAY) doesn't mean that anyone can go anywhere they want to whenever they want.

[edit on 11/29/2005 by Zaphod58]

To put that into context, the UK IS technically a Democracy and we have to produce ID when asked, although there has to reasonable suspicion.

In practice, I have never been asked for ID, even when I was arrested for something else.

What I do find odd about this though is the fact the Public Bus goes over Fedearl land and ID had to be produced. What if this had been a teenager or younger? Or a mother and child? Would they have asked?

This story smells fishy to me, we're missing something. Note that the source is the womans personal website as well. I think we need to hear the official line and make up our minds then. Is there any source elsewhere for this?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
It wasn't some new hot shot trying to make a point. It was a security guard making sure that only AUTHORIZED PEOPLE were entering the area. Democracy (which the US technically isn't ANYWAY) doesn't mean that anyone can go anywhere they want to whenever they want.

[edit on 11/29/2005 by Zaphod58]

She didn't have to show any of the other guards for the 2 weeks she rode that same bus before this incident with this security guard, the others took her word for it.

Remember the good old days, when your word was enough ? That's becoming a fading memory fast





[edit on 30-11-2005 by ImJaded]

I will not show my ID to someone no matter who it is for no good reason. I dont care if its the law or not. That person was not doing anything wrong, they needed to go through that area because the PUBLIC bus she was riding went through there.

There was no justification or logical reason behind asking for their ID. It was not a closed facility. Cars pass through it while it is open all the time.

Hey guys - it's a wake up call.

Now police in Miami are doing random ID checks.


Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.


Check out loam's ATS thread about this here:
Miami Police Take New Tack Against Terror; Vow 'Surprise' ID Sweeps


Welcome to the Fascist States of Amerika.

AZ is already a police state. If you don't show ID if you are walking on the sidewalk, you can be arrested and held until the authorities determine your identity. I thought it was like that in all red states It's some kind of anti-vagrancy deterrent.

You guys blow my mind. What makes you think that you have the right to go wherever you want and do whatever you want without it being questioned at all? Nobody mentions this became commonplace after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Whether you guys realize it or not, everyone isn’t a warm fuzzy peach that means you no harm, there are people terrorist or not that have bad intentions and do inflict harm on people.

This is federal property and if she didn’t want to be bothered for her ID she could have drove her car to work instead of parking it and riding the bus. The price she has to pay for riding that particular piece of public transportation is showing her ID on occasion when it passes through federal property and somehow her rights are violated? She toyed with them to see what they would say for a couple weeks and they were kind enough to take her word or maybe the recognized who she was and let her slide.

The fact remains she is required when passing through federal territory to occasionally show her ID upon request, why is this an issue? Are you that paranoid that you really believe soon we will all have micro chips implanted and have satellites for every person so that they can monitor all Americans? You do know that it’s impossible for them to monitor all 300 million of us, but there has be some type of preventative measures in place to make sure society acts accordingly.

Regardless of what you may or may not believe 300 million people cannot peacefully or coherently govern themselves.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by CogitoErgoSum1]

Originally posted by CogitoErgoSum1
You guys blow my mind.

Uh huh. And the US isn't a democracy either, right?

This is a wake up call. The land of the free is no longer free. Time for everyone to pay attention.

ID checks go hand in hand with quarantine - and quarantine is a depopulation tool. This is just the first step, lulling us into acceptance and complacency.

By definition of course it is. Does it have problems, of course it does. Are we perfect, of course we’re not.

“The land of the free is no longer free”

Why because there are laws and rules? You should take a look at the world we live in as a whole instead of your narrow-minded view of the USA and its loss of “freedoms”.

(sarcasm begins)Move to France, they have great civil liberties and lots of freedom..or better yet, head on over to Iraq, now there's a place I can post things about my leader with no fear of reprecussion(sarcasm ends)

If you have nothing to hide, there is no reason to not give an ID. There is no moral high ground or valid reason short of your own deluded thoughts of 'no one can tell me what to do'.

This is a different world we live in, and it is for safety, not population control. Why was it OK, ust after 9/11, to want to lock down our country. There has not been a surge in patirtism like that since WW2.

Terrorsim is a threat, and it is terrorist threats that are hidden from us, not the other way around. hmmmm....what happened to that suicide bombing at that college, or did we all jsut let that slip away with our latte in the police state we live in.

Don't blame Bush, blame the media. they are the ones who kep you in fear....

Originally posted by CogitoErgoSum1
You guys blow my mind. What makes you think that you have the right to go wherever you want and do whatever you want without it being questioned at all?

By POLICE that's fine, they can see whatever they like, I couldn't care any less and have nothing to hide but a security guard doesn't have any authority unless it pertains to the site he is securing as he has been hired by said site/facility, not the police nor the government. So yeah I do have a problem with this.