Let's put an end to ALL secret societies

Originally posted by Cug
Well I can't talk about any commonalities because I'm not a mason (And not all that intrested in digging into it). The only things I know is what has been posted all the time.

I figured with all the heavy structured ritual that even between different lodges there would be some similarity of basic tenents, espically with the oaths. Of course they are not really Christian even though the throw the man into the mix.

Here's some on the pagan part, maybe you will find some interest.

www.preachtheword.co.uk...
Not intentionally Christian focus but these sites mostly seem to be.

he 32nd Degree ex-Mason claims that it is based on paganism. It is based, he says, on ancient Egyptian worship. It is based on something called the Qabalah, which is basically the Jewish book of the occult. As I was browsing on the Internet myself, I found a book 'Freemasonry of the Ancient Egyptians' - so this is something, obviously, in practice in symbolism that goes back a lot further than 1717.

Mod Edit: to reduce quote size. Please ONLY quote a small portion of the article and link to the rest of the text. Also copied text needs to be in a quote box.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by kinglizard]

peopledying, start a new topic for that.. I don't want to get warned too

Originally posted by peopledying
WHO DO THE HIGH MASONS and SHRINERS ANSWER TO?

yo mamma!

srry im not tryin to be mean or hateful or anything, i just couldnt resist!

Originally posted by markusjharper
Go write a book on what Masonic Light is all about, why don't you.

ok honestly, what did ML do to you? im sorry but what is your problem!?!?!?
all he was doing was explaining why the Masons and such organizations would be tax exempt. i severely dislike your attitude.

Originally posted by markusjharper
... I can afford to educate people on the truth. I'm not surprised that most of my colleges now listen...

evidently though, you cant afford to learn to spell.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Hawker9]

Originally posted by peopledying

Thanks for the review. Where do you get your information? It seems it would be pretty unlikely for anyone to know all these men's lives intimately so I assume you may have so internal Masonic lists to draw from? Refering me to masonicinfo.com is not conclusive as it is pro-Masonic. What is an independent source I could look at?

The Supreme Council 33° of the Scottish Rite of Masonry meets once every two years. At this meeting, the members of the Supreme Council nominate and elect members who reside in their state to receive Supreme Council Honors, which are Knight Commander of the Court of Honour, the 33°, and the Grand Cross of the Court of Honour.

The Supreme Council then publishes the minutes of their meetings in volumes called "Transactions of the Supreme Council". This publication contains a list of all the members who were elected to receive the 33° for that particular time period. The Supreme Council has been publishing its proceedings for well over a century; therefore, to discover who actually is and isn't a 33° Mason, one only has to look it up.

Secondly, it must also be remembered that Masons are proud of their Masonic membership; we do not try to hide it. Masons who are famous and/or are celebrities generally are very visible in their Masonic membership, especially in fundraisers for Masonic charities. All this is in the public domain; it is simple to verify if a famous person is a Mason, and to the name and location of the Lodge where he may hold membership.

How about the Wikipedia list, do you find a higher accuracy rate there?

I took a look here:

en.wikipedia.org...

I can't say it's 100% accurate; it contains many names I've never even heard of. Nevertheless, from the ones that I do know, it appears to be generally correct.

Billy Graham
According to the official Billy Graham Evangelistic Assocaiation webpage Billy Graham recieved the
"The Torch of Liberty Plaque by the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, 1969"
This a from a site talking about the B'nai B'rith which I would like to know more about.

I don't know much about B'nai B'rith, but I do that it doesn't have anything to do with Freemasonry.

Here's their website:

www.bnaibrith.org...

Originally posted by peopledying
Refering me to masonicinfo.com is not conclusive as it is pro-Masonic. What is an independent source I could look at?

Just out of curiosity, where would you expect an 'independent source' to get it's information from? A crystal ball? Because to be frank, unless that is where they get their info from it is always going to originate from the Masons as they are the only group who truly know who was, is or isn't a member.

All the anti-masonic info has also got to come from 1 of 2 places - the Masons themselves (which seems unlikely as why would they promote anything negative about themselves - especially as most of it is untrue) or the vivid imaginations of people with a vendetta.

As with just about any topic, information has to come from the source to have any chance of being true. Anything else is speculation and/or pure fantasy.

From my observations, the definition of 'independant source' by people who promote alternative theories often appears to be anyone who agrees with the alternative story, no matter who they are or what their take on it is.

Anyone who verifies information in defence of the topic at hand, are always referred to 'Pro-Masonic', 'Pro-Government', 'Pro-NWO', 'Government Dis-info', etc, etc ,etc (depending on the topic).

Wee bit biased don't you think?

[edit on 1-12-2005 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by peopledying
" I do promise and swear upon the Holy Bible never to reveal where I have received this degree . . . and in failure of this I consent to have my body opened perpendicularly and to be exposed for eight hours in the open air, so that the venomous flies may eat my entrails, my head to be cut off and put on the highest pinnacle of the world, and I will always be ready to inflict the same punishment on those who shall disclose this degree and break this obligation. So may God help and maintain me. Amen.

Just for the record, the above quote is bogus. I don't know where you found it, but it is not part of a legitimate Masonic obligation. Nowhere does a Mason swear to do harm to anyone else...in fact, to become a Mason, we must swear to obey the moral law, which forbids harming others in any fashion whatsoever.

Are you saying your and Cugs philosophies are not compatible? Masonic Light seems very ok with Crowley.

Also, just for the record, I'm not a Crowleyist. I have read his books, and I find many of them entertaining, comical, and in parts, even insightful. But I do not normally recommend his books to others unless I think they are able to get past his perverse sense of humor and possible find a diamond buried in the rough somewhere.

Originally posted by AgentSmith
...or the vivid imaginations of people with a vendetta.

sounds a lot like that markusjharper guy.

Originally posted by senrak


[edit on 30-11-2005 by senrak]

Senrak, coud you explain "Past Master". No duplicity here, I am just curious. Are you still a Mason?

Originally posted by AgentSmith

Originally posted by peopledying
Refering me to masonicinfo.com is not conclusive as it is pro-Masonic. What is an independent source I could look at?

Just out of curiosity, where would you expect an 'independent source' to get it's information from? A crystal ball? Because to be frank, unless that is where they get their info from it is always going to originate from the Masons as they are the only group who truly know who was, is or isn't a member.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by AgentSmith]

Well it is quite a problem. The web plagerizing is a drag. I have been trying to find independent sources on the web and I find Wikipedia is not bad. I wonder who is behind Wikipedia. They seem to put a lot of effort into thier data collection. Anti-Masonic sites also seems to be rather dominated by Christians who have had conflicts with the Masons for centuries so I can appreciate a possible bias there. As well as asking Masons directly for information, I do but if there was some bad news would they tell me? I am also looking for ex-Mason dialouges and those seem to be Christian based as well, most of them discovering Chist is not given ultimate authority as they move up through the ranks. The other problem one could spend huge amouts of time on just the activities of just a single influential Mason and then one would run into clouded history there as well. I will likely never have the time to run a lot of this to ground. I don't even have time to read books so I stuck with the web mostly. The last book I read I had to read while driving, due to lack of time, foolish as it was.

Originally posted by peopledying

Originally posted by senrak


[edit on 30-11-2005 by senrak]

Senrak, coud you explain "Past Master". No duplicity here, I am just curious. Are you still a Mason?

(Replied via U2U so as to stay on track w/ the thread-Senrak)

I am glad to hear Wikipedia is in line generally, at some point I will try to compare various lists. I will also do more digging on B'nai B'rith. There are a number of references associating them with Masons.

www.srmason-sj.org...
The Library of the Supreme Council; One of our main endeavors is to get the Masonic library catalog online. This will permit members and patrons from around the world to access our database. Larissa Watkins, as a library assistant, and I are working hard, adding entries, and editing the existing entries so that this can happen. Hopefully, this will be accomplished by the next Biennial Session in the year 2001.planne to be online by 2001.

Has this happened?





Mod Edit: big QUOTE....again and again.....

[edit on 1-12-2005 by kinglizard]

Please peopledying read your u2u's (private messages). I would not make this public but there is no other way to get your attention.

Mod Edit: big QUOTE....again and again.....

I did not think this was considered a big quote and have made an effort to shrink it down from before.




Mod Edit: Please, as you posted this it was another BIG quote. My apologies to everyone else in this thread for conducting board business here.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by peopledying
One of our main endeavors is to get the Masonic library catalog online. [snip]
Has this happened?

It has indeed. See:

www.srmason-sj.org...

and click on "On-Line Library Catalog"

Originally posted by senrak
It has indeed. See:

www.srmason-sj.org...

and click on "On-Line Library Catalog"

Thanks, do you think I could find the comprehensive list somewhere. I took a bit of a look around but could not.


Mod Edit: big Quote



[edit on 1-12-2005 by kinglizard]

Well known Radio Talk show host (former) is a self proclaimed Mason. How can I verify this and his rank?
This bit from an Atheist site
www.americanatheist.org...

So, it is not surprising to see the Freemasons now appearing as the latest villains in conspiracy scenarios ...... Pat Robertson, ......., and Art Bell -- does he really believe this stuff? -- have both pointed the finger of suspicion at those staid Lodge dudes in recent days.

If Art is a Mason this is wrong. Could someone check this out?

Originally posted by Masonic Light

I don't know much about B'nai B'rith, but I do that it doesn't have anything to do with Freemasonry.

Here's some info:

Rabbi Kahn has preached and lectured all over the United States, in person and over radio and television. In a national "Back to God" telecast, he shared the camera with Billy Graham.

In his community, Rabbi Kahn has served on the boards of several social agencies such as Red Cross, Boy scouts, Travellers Aid, Mental Health, Muscular Dystrophy, Houston Metropolitan Ministries, United Fund, etc. He is a member of B'nai B'rith, of which he is a Past President, the Masons, Scottish Rite, Shrine. He was President of the Houston Rotary Club in 1967-1968, the largest Rotary Club in the world, and was District Governor for 1978-1979. He has been grand Chaplain of the grand Lodge of Texas and is now Chaplain of the Arabia Shrine Temple of Houston. He has been honored by the Boy Scouts of America with the Silver Beaver and Ner Tamid Awards; by the Freedoms Foundation with a George Washington Medal; by the French Government for service to veterans; by the Masonic Order with the 33rd degree, by the ZOA District with the Robert I. Kahn Lodge; by the State of Israel with the Prime Minister's Medal for Israel Bonds. A forest has been planted in his honor in Israel.

Masonic book called '10,000 Famous Freemason' says about B'nai B'rith

Frank Goldman , President of B'nai B'rith, 1947-53 and honorary president since that date. b. Dec. 4, 1890 in Lowell, Mass. Graduate of Boston U. summa cum laude in 1910 and admitted to Mass. bar in 1912, practicing in Lowell. A member of B'nai B'rith since 1920, he served as president of the Lowell lodge, district president, national vice president, 1941-47. He has been editor of The National Jewish Monthly since 1947. Active in civic and Jewish charity organizations. Mason and 32 degree AASR (NJ).

www.washington-report.org...
The Changing Role of B'nai B'rith's Anti-Defamation League

It can be said without exaggeration that the ADL is the single most influential organization in the United States. It works closely with the Israeli intelligence agency, Mossad, and sometimes with the FBI or CIA. Through its multifold activities and ability to crush dissent, it is probably more responsible for American attitudes and American foreign policy toward the Middle East than any other single force.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by peopledying]

Originally posted by peopledying

Originally posted by Masonic Light

I don't know much about B'nai B'rith, but I do that it doesn't have anything to do with Freemasonry.

Here's some info:

The Independent Order of B'nai B'rith (which means "Sons of the Covenant") was founded as a Fraternal Society for Jewish men back in the 1840's or 50's. I have a B'nai B'rith ritual book in my fraternal society library and their degrees are similar in structure to that of Freemasonry. However, B'nai B'rith is NOT connected with Freemasonry, except that there are some overlapping members. I'm a member of the Knights of Pythias (K of P) and the Independent Order of Odd Fellows (IOOF) but there is no connection between Freemasonry and those groups.

Masonic book called '10,000 Famous Freemason' says about B'nai B'rith

Frank Goldman , President of B'nai B'rith, ....[snip]

Actually "10,000 Famous Freemasons" says that about Frank Goldman, NOT B'nai B'rith. IOBB being mentioned in that book doesn't mean it's a Masonic Organization, it's just telling why Frank Goldman was famous. You'll also find William Clark and Merriwether Lewis in "10,000 Famous Freemasons" but that doesn't make Lewis & Clark's expedition a "Masonic function" just an expedition made by two men who happened to be Masons.

oh but they are

FREE / MASONS...
or better yet..
Lawless / Builders
Above All / Architect

FREE:
unengaged, unfettered, unhampered, unimpeded, unobstructed, unregulated, unrestricted

MASON:
architect, artisan, constructor, contractor, craftsman, erector, fabricator, framer, inventor, maker, manufacturer, mason, originator, producer

But honestly what is it they are constructing? .. what is it they hope to build.. ?

As for other secret societies.. (like REAL secret societies) those of which no one really knows..

there is nothing hidden that will remain unturned
there is nothing done in dark that will not come to light

watch your minds because there are some who can peer at them by means of will...