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So Centrist appears to be kind of like a guy who nailed his foot to the floor and is going around in circles.
Originally posted by jpl
Hi all,
I am most curious what this forum might respond with, regarding the following questions:
#1
If Meier is a fraud, Can anyone explain to me, how the metal sample as examined and documented by Marcel Vogel was fabricated or obtained?
Really Vogel's "analysis" isnt more then a second hand story...some would argue this is "proof". But, in fact, there is NO metal sample to back any of it up. Here's an analogy for ya. I have an alien dog. I have pictures. I have a vet write up a paper on the dog's genetic makeup, and the idea that it could not possibly be from earth. Where is the dog? Oh, he ran away a year ago and I dont know where he is. It's possible the aliens came back and got him. He has effectively "vanished".
Believe me? Of course not, why would you, there's no proof. Nada zip, none. Who care what credentials the person had, how upper echelon a researcher or scientist they were...there's nothing to back up their paperwork. Not so much as a bitslice.
The offer that this is some sort of proof is so patently absurd when there is NOTHING substancial to back it up...that alien dog has gone home. Done over, and thats it. Util such time as Meier comes forward with a real metal sample that can be tested and verified, the metal sample is just a tall tale.
#2
IF Meier is a fraud, can anyone explain why he simply doesn't make or get lots more such metal samples & sell these for LOTS of money?
Good question, if he isnt a fraud why doesnt he??? If there ever was a real metal sample, none are forthcoming. In my opinion nor will they ever be.
#3
If Meier is a fraud, Can ANYONE explain how he was able to produce the quantity and quality of beamship photographs in his collection?
I mean in REALISTIC methods, which would withstand the scrutiny of any expert willing to risk his job & position simply for doing any analysis...
First, quantity isnt proof of anything other then taking alot of pictures. The quality is highly debatable. I have duplicated such photos using small models and one single prop, even going so far as to make the ship appear behind a far tree. These have been posted here and at the PAR message board. If the "analysis" of said photos were done with all the equipment spoken of in the report, then some of the pictures posted on Meier's website that very clearly show a small object close to the camera would have been detected immediately. Unfortunate for us who would want to conduct studies on the original photos or negatives if offered the chance, they no longer exist....much like the metal sample.
It's said "many photos never came back from being developed" insinuating they were stolen. Most likely, they came back and showed supportive devices (string, or pole) or just didnt work in the forced perspective of the camera's focus lock (i.e. the cam focused on the wrong object) These photos would be "stolen" so as not to be examined.
#4
If Meier is a fraud and money monger, can anyone explain why he doesn't simply produce LOTS of similar photographs which could be sold for lots of money as artistic works, irregardless of whether these are fraudulent or not?
Well, he does. Has sold them for years. Why not sell as artwork? Because art comes and goes...religion can last forever.
#5
If Meier is a fraud, how DID he produce those beamship sounds?
There were plenty of ways to at that point of time. It's been talked about extensively in the past here, with one member suggesting a 32 or 33 comb filter feeding back through an amp. Typical tape delay pedal for guitar, which were widely available. I'm not any sort of audio-phile, but from working with an on guitars and playing for over 23 years, I have heard such sounds very similar when delay pedals feedback. Duplicating such a sound would require absolute positioning information of the source of feedback and angle to amplification. Listen to Joe Satriani's "Flying in a Blue Dream" intro on album of the same name....you'll hear a sound similar to the "beamship".
#6
If Meier is a fraud, how did he manage to "fool" the other people present DURING the recording of the beamship sounds?
My long time answer is how do you know *anyone* was present? Signed affidavits mean nothing when the event is'nt provable...as to whether you were there or not. Lets keep in mind this sound was supposed to have been heard what....a mile away? (the actual report escapes me...but really far)....yet we hear a dog bark thru the noise. C'mon...it just aint happening.
#7
If Meier is a fraud, how or where DID he get the original TJ manuscript, who's content is legitimate enough to create the existing controvercy among "biblical scholars"?
Again, I'm not a biblical scholar, but a simple search turns up that it's considered to be a hoax. See home.swipnet.se...
And look at the TJ links and James Deardorff link. Meier isnt a stupid man, and he traveled quite a bit studying other religions and cultures. Again, there is no ancient manuscript to study, nor co-founder (murdered...gasp.) absolutely nothing to back it all up....just another story and writings.
Do some serious looking at all the material and you'll see alot of claims and no backup. Names dropped that never worked on the case in any capacity other then looking at the photos and commenting. The "analysis" was done by the researchers involved and then slammed shut to everyone else. Thats how ya keep a lid on. Some have come forward about what they were asked to do with regard to the photos, like adding reflections and shadows.
See www.rickross.com...
"Jim [Dilettoso] said, 'Can you make the bottom of the object appear to reflect the ground below?' I said yes, and we performed the operations that they asked for."
That says it all to me. This from a man who can be contacted, and backed up.
Look for more holes, theyre all over, but you have to suspend your belief that Meier is in contact with Plejarens...just for a minute.
Originally posted by Alpha Grey
this Meier guy seems.....quirky??...out there....and if he has been proven a fraud then why does the UFO community still follow him????
Originally posted by Alpha Grey
this Meier guy seems.....quirky??...out there....and if he has been proven a fraud then why does the UFO community still follow him????
Originally posted by solarstone
If people here can look past all the strange pics and video's and learn about the spiritual and prophetic information that Billy has given, you will begin to understand what this is all about.
Originally posted by Centrist
Originally posted by Alpha Grey
Oh.. and if Michael decides to drop by again, how about producing a copy of the mythical metal analysis? Of all the ways you can spend money on Meier's hoax, it seems that this is one piece of evidence that Steelmark can't produce. Odd, huh? One thing that might give Meier's claim some credibility, if it were true... (it's not -- I learned that what Meier actually brought to Marcel Vogel was a crystal which he promised was "unique", what he actually had was a Monazite crystal. Although somewhat rare, Switzerland, near Zurich in fact, is one places where naturally occuring monazite can be found. Interestingly, monazite is the primary source for thulium -- what Vogel supposedly found in Meier's metal and giving his cultists their source for making such grand, and totally unsupported and unverified, claims about Vogel proclaiming that terrestrial science couldn't reproduce the metal! How about this -- terrestrial science can't reproduce the processes that occur deep within the earth over millions of years, which is how monazite crystals are formed -- could it be that Vogel didn't consider this possibility, or in fact that the cultists have taken Vogel out of context, because this is what Vogel truly meant?) Funny thing about IBM -- they tend to keep all of their records for a long time
Is there a place where this can be documented and substanciated? If so, I'd love to see it...could be the piece we've been looking for to put the mythical metal to bed.
Centrist- did you notice the manner of the post by JPL? Sound a lttle like Mr. Horn? did to me.
Originally posted by solarstone
jritzmann the photo's have never been proven fake. When I say to look past them I mean that they're not the most important aspect of the case.
I've seen the pictures at www.iigwest.com... and I don't know how you can compare them to Meiers.
The shots by IIG should have been taken in an identical (or very close to) environment together with a replica of the UFO, and using an identical camera and lens as the original. I don't think this is scientific proof the case is a hoax.
kozmo, the FIGU are not preachy at all, and they always discourage people from believing anything they or anyone else say. He also hate's being idolised.
If the FIGU wanted to make loads of money they would have translated a lot of the important books from German to English, but it looks like they're in no hurry since they wan't the translation to be perfect so it's not misinterpreted.
I'm suprised so many people are dogging Meier, and I think it's sad that some people deny themselves the time to explore the case on their own since they made the decision to believe the few paragraphs written by the skeptics. Now i'm sceptical too but I thnk people are treating it like something that guilty until proven innocent. There's a lot of information available without having to pay for it.