The media are minimising US and British war crimes in Iraq

Why cause he sais things you'dd rather not hae know about you country ?

Wake up, A lot of what Souljah posts is true ! you just dismis all his valid arguments with:

You can't win an argument with a wack-job wanna be terrorist guys and gals.

Smart reaction

Originally posted by dbates
We interrupt this downward spiral of this thread in to a slug-fest to remind everyone to be nice and courteous towards all the other fine members here. Even if we differ on opinion we can all still get along and discuss things rationally. Along with the opposable thumb, this is what separates us from the animals out there.

Wake Up Call!

Let's go back to the TOPIC of this THREAD, shall we?

Thanks mister dbates!

Let check some more Articles supporting the first Post:













I hope that you Find something you LIKE in Articles Above.


As for the Solution:

FIRST STEP,
would be to STOP LYING. That's a Nice start. But it wont Happen anyway, so I guess we will have to Wait for the TRUTH to come out. Because it will; one way or the Other.


We must remember that in time of war what is said on the enemy's side of the front is always propaganda, and what is said on our side of the front is truth and righteousness, the cause of humanity and a crusade for peace.
Walter Lippmann


We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things the general public does not need to know about and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows.
Katharine Graham, Washington Post owner speaking at CIA's Langley, Virginia headquarters in 1988


In [many cases], the U.S. and other western news media depend on the military for information.... And when the information that military officers provide to the public is part of a process that generates propaganda and places a high value on deceit, deception and denial, then truth is indeed likely to be high on the casualty list.
William M. Arkin, Media principles: Killed by friendly fire in US infowar

Since war is particularly unpleasant, military discourse is full of euphemisms. In the 1940's, America changed the name of the War Department to the Department of Defense. Under the Reagan Administration, the MX-Missile was renamed “The Peacekeeper.” During war-time, civilian casualties are referred to as “collateral damage,” and the word “liquidation” is used as a synonym for “murder.”
Dr. Aaron Delwiche, Propaganda Analysis, Propaganda Critic Web site, School of Communications, Washington University


It is easier to dominate someone if they are UNAWARE of being dominated. Colonised and colonisers both know that domination is not just based on physical supremacy. Control of hearts and minds follows military conquest. Which is why any empire that wants to last must capture the souls of its subjects.
Ignacio Ramonet, The control of pleasure, Le Monde diplomatique

[edit on 12/12/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by XyZeR
Why cause he sais things you'dd rather not hae know about you country ?

He has said bugger all about mine so dont even bother trying that attack, I said that because frankly I am sick of him doin that..
He's also ignored MANY of my facts which btw you have not commented on ethier..
Mabye what my old history teacher said was right, ; "Old men fear young men's questions."

Originally posted by Souljah
FIRST STEP,
would be to STOP LYING. That's a Nice start. But it wont Happen anyway, so I guess we will have to Wait for the TRUTH to come out. Because it will; one way or the Other.

Stop lieing? About what? Everything?
What do define as the "truth" ? My perception of the truth or the facts?

"There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil."
Alfred North Whitehead,
Tell me what "truth" do you believe?

Originally posted by devilwasp
Souljah,
I notice you keep bringing up the geneva conventions, the laws of war and varios other articles defining how war and human rights should be conducted...

Now my question is this...Do you believe in these laws?

What does it Matter what I belive in?

These Laws were Written for a Certain Purpose - so that EVERYBODY can Enjoy the same Rights and Priviledges, so that nobody is "Left Behind". They were written in order to bring some Sanity and Humanity to this World, torn apart by MANY Wars. What would happen, if the Cops would not follow the Criminal Law in the Wolrd we have today? There would be a Complete Anarchy! So, how can the US (along with UK) tell the Entire World what to do, while they are breaking the Same Law, which they are suppoesd to Uphold? Isn't that a little bit Hypocritical? Why would the World Listen to them anyway - they are on the same level as the Criminals they are hunting.

Originally posted by Souljah
What does it Matter what I belive in?

Because it defines who you are, what you believe in will affect how you act and your actions define you.

These Laws were Written for a Certain Purpose - so that EVERYBODY can Enjoy the same Rights and Priviledges, so that nobody is "Left Behind".

Does it happen? No it doesnt, why? Because to enforce these rules we need to use force. Which btw is mostly unpopular.

They were written in order to bring some Sanity and Humanity to this World, torn apart by MANY Wars.

By wars? They are torn apart in the name of "truth" , "freedom" and "liberty" .

What would happen, if the Cops would not follow the Criminal Law in the Wolrd we have today?

So your now changing the topic to a subject of laws, I am asking about the "truth" not the laws.

So, how can the US (along with UK) tell the Entire World what to do, while they are breaking the Same Law, which they are suppoesd to Uphold?

How can we? We do it because we think its whats needed to protect ourselves, our people, the world and our allies Example...would you allow a police officer to speed to stop an armed subject who has just shot a fellow unarmed police officer in cold blood while he tried to stop the subject?

The above situation is just one example of why rules must sometimes be broken.

Isn't that a little bit Hypocritical?

Isnt complaining about problems yet causing some of them?
[quote[
Why would the World Listen to them anyway - they are on the same level as the Criminals they are hunting.
No....if we where on the same level the iraq war would have been much diffrent....
Would you like me to post what would have happened if we truly had "let slip the dogs of war?"

How come I never see anyone question the sources Souljah is using there. Greenleft.org,WSWS.org(world socialist website), projectcensored.org, informationclearinghouse.org.

I mean cmon, read the headlines on the info clearing house page.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...
One says the plan for hte US is to rule the world, and another says he made Intel fit Iraq police(something 2 congressional panels found to be not true)

greenleft and world socialist website's names speak for themselves. Cmon folks, am I the only one looking for things like this. Checking sources is something that is important to make sure we are getting accurate information and not someones agenda.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Stop lieing? About what? Everything?
What do define as the "truth" ? My perception of the truth or the facts?

"There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil."
Alfred North Whitehead,
Tell me what "truth" do you believe?

My Dear Friend,
obviously you know Nothing about the War, Propaganda and the Media's Role here. Propaganda serves to JUSTIFY the War at all costs - every conflict is fought on at least two grounds: the Battlefield and the Minds of the people via propaganda. The Good guys and the Bad guys can often both be guilty of misleading their people with Distortions, Exaggerations, Subjectivity, Inaccuracy and even Fabrications, in order to receive Support and a sense of legitimacy.

No matter how it is spread, propaganda comes in four basic varieties, said Arthur Siegel, social science professor at York University in Toronto, whose 1996 book Radio Canada International examines World War II and Cold War propaganda.

“The first level is the Big Lie, adapted by Hitler and Stalin. The state-controlled Egyptian press has been spreading a Big Lie, saying the World Trade Center was attacked by Israel to embarrass Arabs,” said Siegel.

“The second layer says, ‘It doesn't have to be the truth, so long as it's plausible.’

“The third strategy is to tell the truth but withhold the other side's point of view.

“The fourth and most productive is to tell the truth, the good and the bad, the losses and the gains.

“Governments in Western society take the last three steps. They avoid the Big Lie, which nobody here will swallow,” Siegel said.

Beth Gillin, U.S. intensifies the war of words

Military control of Information during war time is also a major contributing factor to propaganda, especially when the media go along with it without question. The military recognizes the values of media and information control very well.

Award-winning investigative journalist, Phillip Knightley, in an article for the British paper, The Guardian also points out four stages in preparing a nation for war:

• The crisis
  The reporting of a crisis which negotiations appear unable to resolve. Politicians, while calling for diplomacy, warn of military retaliation. The media reports this as “We're on the brink of war”, or “War is inevitable”, etc.
  
  
• The demonisation of the enemy's leader
  Comparing the leader with Hitler is a good start because of the instant images that Hitler's name provokes.
  
  
• The demonisation of the enemy as individuals
  For example, to suggest the enemy is insane.
  
  
• Atrocities
  Even making up stories to whip up and strengthen emotional reactions.

SO,
What makes you THINK that the Goverments of US and UK are Telling the TRUTH this time?

Originally posted by ludaChris
greenleft and world socialist website's names speak for themselves. Cmon folks, am I the only one looking for things like this. Checking sources is something that is important to make sure we are getting accurate information and not someones agenda.

For you the ACCURATE Information is the CORPORATE Media ones, huh?
Trust me, they have a Much BIGGER Agenda then Me.
But, the Good thing about their Propaganda is, that the Subjects, which are under their Infulence do not know about it!

I use .edu, some .orgs(as some are sketchy, usually just global security and wiki, although I dont trust all info I recieve from there), and .gov sites. Unless I'm posting a news story which I have yet to do. These sites are reliable and no one has questioned thier credibility. So I guess my answer to your question is no, I dont use media sites. The point is we are here to promote knowledge and facts, not agendas.

Remember, when you assume, you make an ass out of you not me.

[edit on 12/12/2005 by ludaChris]

[edit on 12/12/2005 by ludaChris]

Originally posted by XyZeR
Why cause he sais things you'dd rather not hae know about you country ?

Originally posted by me
You can't win an argument with a wack-job wanna be terrorist guys and gals.

Smart reaction

No... I would rather not hear him spread more lies and misinformation about my country. Big difference there in my book. Look where he gets his information from...

And yes... That is a smart reaction because it is true! Sorry if I don't put it as eloquently as some posters on this site. But the fact is... The guy has his head made up to think one way... and thats the way he is going to think. He hates the U.S. and therefore goes out of his way to find the most biased, hate-filled, and slanderous crap he can on the internet...

I am critical about the war in Iraq... Yet I still have some sanity left to see it for what it really is.

Ofcourse - again it is the Liberal-Terrorist-Lovers that are making this war "Look Bad"; the fact that it is going down the Sink, and that since the start of the War on Terrorism, there have been an INCREASING number of terrorist attacks, nobody even bothers.

Yes, it is War and the first Casualty is the Truth.

Again you have been victorious in diverting the topic of this thread to the Author and his "Agenda". The majority people just will not belive anything I post, just because it is from Me. Ignorant? Open Minded? You choose.

Does anybody have any comments regarding the news articles provided Above in the White Frames?

Ah yes, when in doubt compare to Hitler. which strikes me as odd since he is so admired in the Middle East for his efforts on helping rid the world of the nasty evil zionist occupiers of the Holy Land. Seriously, do you honestly believe that the American media which bears no love for the current administration would sit on a story of this magnatude? Not for a second would they, I mean really, CBS tried fake documents in the lead up to the election, remember those?
But that doesn't fit your hate-filled anti-americanism, does it?

Originally posted by Souljah
obviously you know Nothing about the War, Propaganda and the Media's Role here.

No?
How about all the good thigns happeneing in iraq? Are they ever shown by the media? No is the answer.
What about when the RFA Ship in the caribian along with US coastguard stopped drug smugglers and caught over 1 million pounds worth of coke?
Did that make "front page news"?
Dont you dare tell me I know nothing of propaganda and the media.

Propaganda serves to JUSTIFY the War at all costs - every conflict is fought on at least two grounds: the Battlefield and the Minds of the people via propaganda.

Well done you've explained what ONE use of propaganda is about, how about the other propaganda against war?

The Good guys and the Bad guys can often both be guilty of misleading their people with Distortions, Exaggerations, Subjectivity, Inaccuracy and even Fabrications, in order to receive Support and a sense of legitimacy.

Good guys? Bad guys?
In war there are netheir!
Onlyv you and the men next to you are the good guys, the bad guys are who YOU percieve and there are no even drawn lines to define them.


Give a rest with the qoutes, we can play a qoutes war all day and night.

Military control of Information during war time is also a major contributing factor to propaganda, especially when the media go along with it without question. The military recognizes the values of media and information control very well.

Yes and not just the military, the terrorists, freedom fighter, rebels, conspiricy theorists and political parties use the media and information to control the war. See majics podcast.

What makes you THINK that the Goverments of US and UK are Telling the TRUTH this time?

What makes me think they are telling the truth about the war?
I think they are telling the truth about the war because I trust them a hell of a lot more than I trust the insurgents.

Tell me, does the iraqi insurgency conduct propaganda?
Yes it does is the answer, yet.....there are no threads about that on ATS at all...

Does the iraqi "resisitance" conduct warcrimes?
Yes it does is the answer yet....the threads that are posted about it recieve little or no coverage OR are debunked as pro coalition propaganda...

Does the iraqi insurgency use hostages?

Yes it does , the threads that are about this funnel thier anger not at the kidnappers but the governments themselves, the terrorists have already won that part of the battle thanks to peopel "proving" the government is wrong and shameful yet no stories are made about the peopole who provide this information nor are there stories about the people who conduct these kinds of operations.

Originally posted by devilwasp
How about all the good thigns happeneing in iraq? Are they ever shown by the media? No is the answer.

Good Things? Such as? You mean the GOOD News that our skippytjc is "reporting" all of the time, with the "Viva Iraq!" ending? Seriously, the situation in Iraq is FAR from "Good" - it is a F.U.B.A.R. situation and it will just get worse.

Well done you've explained what ONE use of propaganda is about, how about the other propaganda against war?

Well - one thing is for certain: when there are no Wars, even the Anti-War propaganda is without Job. See, Corporate Media are all the same in essence: liberal, republican - whatever; they both FEED Lies to the People, there are no exceptions; both are Media Whores and will report what is good for their RATINGS and good for the Profit. The Independant Media is IMHO the only one who counts here - because frankly, they got nothing to loose if the War stops or goes on forever - they will still be around, reporting what they have actually SEEN, and not what they Want you to SEE.

Good guys? Bad guys?
In war there are netheir!
Onlyv you and the men next to you are the good guys, the bad guys are who YOU percieve and there are no even drawn lines to define them.

If you haven't noticed, there are Good vs. Bad in this War also. Basicly it is a matter of Perspective, yet again. The Coalition is out there to Fight the Bad Terrorists - and the Insurgents are out there to Fight the Bad Invaders.

Give a rest with the qoutes, we can play a qoutes war all day and night.

You wanna?

Yes and not just the military, the terrorists, freedom fighter, rebels, conspiricy theorists and political parties use the media and information to control the war. See majics podcast.

Are you saying that I "Control" the War?

The Question here is, WHO has MORE money to Conduct a BETTER and More Sofisticated Propaganda War here?

The US ARMY?

The Iraqi Insurgents?

The Independant Media?

The Corporate Media?

Independant Individuals?

What makes me think they are telling the truth about the war?
I think they are telling the truth about the war because I trust them a hell of a lot more than I trust the insurgents.

See? You really do not have a Clue about War, Propaganda and Media.

The Army HAS to Lie in order to maintain the Peoples support of the War.

That is why they have Information Officers.

That is why they have PsyOps.

That is why they have Propaganda Officers.

Tell me, does the iraqi insurgency conduct propaganda?
Yes it does is the answer, yet.....there are no threads about that on ATS at all...

Sure they do - But compare their Puny Propaganda to the US Military/Corporate Media Combo, and their little effort seems worthless in the vast information warfare that they are fighting against. The Middle East is Far away when looking at it from your TV or your computer Monitor - and the Information that gets out of this Zone is Mainly controlled by the Military/Corporate media combo - the independant journalists are doing their best in this warzone, and often get killed in order to get their story. Embedded journalists with the Pentagon do not get killed - they just get THEIR side of the story.

Does the iraqi "resisitance" conduct warcrimes?
Yes it does is the answer yet....the threads that are posted about it recieve little or no coverage OR are debunked as pro coalition propaganda...

Oh Please!
The Media are doing a Damn Fine Job Demonizing the Iraqi Insurgency.
It is the other way around - you do not hear News, such as is the first post of this thread from the Guardian - very often. The Coalition is the Bastion of Liberty, Democracy and TRUTH; everything else are LIES!

"demonizing the insurgents". Yes and with good reason. These oh, so glorious and brave insurgents drive explosive-laden vehicles into the midst of crowds of children getting candy from soldiers, or into crowded marketplaces, or to the front of schools for girls and set them off. But there is no good guys or bad guys here, huh? Whatever. Sometimes it is black and white., good versus evil, etc..., and no amount of links to anti-war, anti-american websites, and news sources is going to change that. I don't expect that my little post here will change minds, but gotta try.

Originally posted by Souljah
Good Things? Such as? You mean the GOOD News that our skippytjc is "reporting" all of the time, with the "Viva Iraq!" ending?

Why not look and find out, skippy is one man alone on this board the ENTIRE MEDIA is against the war almost.

Seriously, the situation in Iraq is FAR from "Good" - it is a F.U.B.A.R. situation and it will just get worse.

So speaks the voice of reason and knowledge?
I'll listen to people I respect and trust before I take your word thank you VERY much.

The Independant Media is IMHO the only one who counts here - because frankly, they got nothing to loose if the War stops or goes on forever - they will still be around, reporting what they have actually SEEN, and not what they Want you to SEE.

Independant media?
Your trying to say that no one is reporting thier opinion and not the whole story? GEEE wow your right!

If you haven't noticed, there are Good vs. Bad in this War also. Basicly it is a matter of Perspective, yet again. The Coalition is out there to Fight the Bad Terrorists - and the Insurgents are out there to Fight the Bad Invaders.

If you hadnt noticed my post just said that.

You wanna?

No I have better things to do like passing my officer cadetship.

Are you saying that I "Control" the War?

Depends what "war" you mean but no you simply add to the firepower.

The Question here is, WHO has MORE money to Conduct a BETTER and More Sofisticated Propaganda War here?

The insurgents since they can play the wounded oppressd people position while the coalition is restricted to playing down the "truth and freedom" position, they cant use the media too much because the media doesnt trust them.

The US ARMY?

You and the bloody army, god sake man think out side your box.
There are 3 diffrent services!

The Iraqi Insurgents?

The Independant Media?

The Corporate Media?

Independant Individuals?

Who are these "independants"?
Your telling me they dont voice opinions?
Your telling me they dont have an agenda?
I find that VERY hard to believe.

See? You really do not have a Clue about War, Propaganda and Media.

I dont gee wow and what should make me trust you?
Or trust anyone?
Thats paranioa.

The Army HAS to Lie in order to maintain the Peoples support of the War.

The army has 0 lies to maintain support, why? Because thats not the army's job.
The governments job is that, oh and btw if your wondering there is a unit designed for "hearts and minds" , its a tri service made up of part timers.

That is why they have Information Officers.

They dont conduct H+M warfare...

That is why they have PsyOps.

No thats to destroy the enemy's ability to fight.

That is why they have Propaganda Officers.

They have no propaganda officers, thats nazi germany and the soviet forces.

Sure they do

Thank you for telling the truth!
Now the better question:
Why are you not reporting this if you hate lies and the truth being distorted?
Is this possibly because you have an agenda?

Oh Please!
The Media are doing a Damn Fine Job Demonizing the Iraqi Insurgency.
It is the other way around - you do not hear News, such as is the first post of this thread from the Guardian - very often. The Coalition is the Bastion of Liberty, Democracy and TRUTH; everything else are LIES!

Oh so your now avoiding the question?
I thought you hated lies and wanted the truth?
Well I have a qoute for you!

"You want the truth? You cant handle the truth!"
I put it to you and ATS that YOU , soljah , cant accept the fact that the iraqi insurgency conducts and fights JUST AS BAD as the coalition, the coalition has done wrong I accept that but they do so by accident and not by choice, heres another question for you?

Can you say the same for the insurgency?

DW out....

Originally posted by devilwasp
Why not look and find out, skippy is one man alone on this board the ENTIRE MEDIA is against the war almost.

It is?

Why do you think that?

Could it be, that this war was WRONG?

So speaks the voice of reason and knowledge?
I'll listen to people I respect and trust before I take your word thank you VERY much.

...and they are all Military Personell, right?

That's like asking a Football Player, why he Hates Football!

Independant media?
Your trying to say that no one is reporting thier opinion and not the whole story? GEEE wow your right!

Independant Media means - that they are NOT Influenced by ANY of the Sides involved, and that they put the clearest possible picture out of all.

Thats why they are called INDEPENDANT.

Depends what "war" you mean but no you simply add to the firepower.

I don't Understand...

The insurgents since they can play the wounded oppressd people position while the coalition is restricted to playing down the "truth and freedom" position, they cant use the media too much because the media doesnt trust them.

The INSURGENTS have More Money?!?



The Insurgents come from Strictly Sunni Iraqis, which live on a Land WITHOUT any Oil or any other Income, that would MAKE THEM, Rich and full of Money. All they have in the Sunni Triangle are Endless Weapons and Ammunitions Dumps.

You and the bloody army, god sake man think out side your box.
There are 3 diffrent services!

There are?

It is all the Same to me.

They all Use Weapons and the All are Trained to Kill when Ordered.

What is the BIG DIFFERENCE then?

I dont gee wow and what should make me trust you?
Or trust anyone?
Thats paranioa.

You can Trust me.

The army has 0 lies to maintain support, why? Because thats not the army's job. The governments job is that, oh and btw if your wondering there is a unit designed for "hearts and minds" , its a tri service made up of part timers.

Errr... The Military IS a part of the Goverment, thats why there is a Man called the Secretary of Defence - so when HE LIES, he is LYING for the Goverment and the Army combined!

They have no propaganda officers, thats nazi germany and the soviet forces.

Ofcourse there are Propaganda Officers!

You just don't see them very often - what do you call then Intelligence Officers in the Army Intel, whos job are the Propaganda Activites?

Thank you for telling the truth!
Now the better question:
Why are you not reporting this if you hate lies and the truth being distorted?
Is this possibly because you have an agenda?

What did I write in my Previous Post?

Their Little Propaganda is NOTHING compared to the Mighty US and their Corporate Media/Military Industry Brainwashing Machine.

Now tell me:

Aren't you UPSET about the BIG LIES that US Goverment used to Invade Iraq? Becaues they sure did LIE to You and to all of us. But that is not BOTHERING you either.

Oh so your now avoiding the question?
I thought you hated lies and wanted the truth?
Well I have a qoute for you!
"You want the truth? You cant handle the truth!"

You Giving me Quotes from Hollywood Movies?



Yea, I am scared of Colonel Nathan R. Jessep!

If you remember that Movie correctly, when the Colonel was shouting that Fact he also REVEALED his true Self and with it, revealed how HE Authorized torture and abuse of the US Marines at Guantanamo.

Ironic isn't it'

I put it to you and ATS that YOU , soljah , cant accept the fact that the iraqi insurgency conducts and fights JUST AS BAD as the coalition, the coalition has done wrong I accept that but they do so by accident and not by choice, heres another question for you?

Can you say the same for the insurgency?

For Once, you could learn to write my NAME and SPELL it correctly - because that only shows the ammount of Time and Respect given to this Post and given to Me.

But, you still don't get it, in all the numerous posts with endless quotes we had. Again, how can there be PEACE without JUSTICE? If the Coalition troops roam around Iraq doing what they want, where they want to, that is not Liberation, but an OCCUPATION - and every Occupation results in RESISTANCE. The Coalition have armed and equipped TWO sides of this Conflict and have Demoized the Third party - the result will be nothing else but a Civil War if this Scenario goes on.

And PLEASE spare me the talk, that the Coalition has done Wrong IN ACCIDENTS ONLY! When Coalition kills Civilans that is called Friendly Fire or Collateral Damage - sorry, you should not be there in the first place! But when the Insurgents target US forces, while they surround themselves with Children, to give them Candy in a WARZONE, that is A-OKEY! An ACCIDENT! SORRY! WE DID NOT KNOW! WE ARE SORRY!

Originally posted by Souljah
Most People in Developing World cannot Afford to buy FOOD!
Hey - buts thats their Problem, right? If they DIE on daily basis because of Severe Malnutrition, thats all Fine. It's their Fault anyway - why don't they get a Decent Job?

Again with the hystrionics!
I have never said anything of that sort. I merely said that their can be no comparision made between a person from the thrird world and person from America in terms of purchasing power. Everything else is merely your hate that you want to project onto others.
It is not a crime to be richer than the poorest poor in the world especially when you have earned every cent on your own merit.

Thats why we have a GLOBAL Warming Effect - see if you Effect a BIG Ocean such as Atlantic or Pacific, you put the Delicate Natural Balance out of balance, thus creating a Worldwide BUTTERFLY Effect.

I dont see how this has anything to do with the topic !

As long as you have drive your BIG American Cars, to go and eat in your BIG American Drive-Ins, and you go in your BIG Americna Wal-Marts - SCREW THE REST!

Again your hate is taking over!
To be true, Americans are the most generous people on the planet!

America was founded on 3 Things: GUNS, MONEY and POWER. And those 3 are their Main Export since.

apart from your raging anti-americanism you can see nothing else.
The statement above is proof of this.
One wonders where the lightbuld, the PC, the TV etc all came from ??
Another point is that you have said that we export only Guns, Money and power. Apart from the guns the other two things in your own admission are good for the developing world.
How can you say that the US is selfcentered and yet state a few statements later that the US only exports money ??
This proves that these statements are nothing more than the rants of hatred that have deviated wildly from reason.

wow so many dumb americans in one spot, and only one Souljah



how do you do it Souljah, is it perhaps becouse the truth stands by itself and defends itself, while the lies crumble all on their own?