Seven Fires - William Commanda

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Nuff Said wish I had another 2 (or maybe 6 lol) & Thank You

Just reading and absorbing for today, but have some to add from a good Hopi Source linkng in with this tommorrow.

mmm.... are you able to gleam anything "new" or unreleased/rare(book) at the moment on the Seven Sisters aspect of the Prophecies (the great shaking by the creator) as mentioned by the other 6 councils/tribes?

NotMischeviouslyButSadlyBathingOurMotherAsAnElfTearLandsOnHerSkinElf

Regards

Elf

ElfEditGramah

[edit on 15-1-2006 by MischeviousElf]

These prophecies & others like it are all based in ancient folklore and have ben passed down through the generations. If anyone has played the game 'Telephone' you would understand how some of the facts adn points in the legend may have been altered slightly over the generations.



In some tribes, only the elders, wise men and wise women, were allowed to 'hold' the knowledge. Thus, in some circles, in might be possible to change the story to suite the needs of the leader, the times, and the ppl.


I hope this does not offecnd anyone, I am a great believer in ancient prophecies and in the Native American Tribes' cultures and myths.

Originally posted by Amano_Jacku
Masqua,

So I guess we are at or near the 500 year mark then? A solid "start of opression" date would be hard to nail down, but the limited research I did is pointing to about the late 1500s to early 1600s. Would you consider the first contact with Europeans ( I guess 1492 or there abouts) the start of this opression in regards to the seven fires prophecy, or when settlement of colonies started in earnest, about 1600? Just curious as to your opinion...

Personally, I'm convinced the 500 years started with the first settlements and the lighting of the Fourth Fire. 500 years has definately passed by this reckoning. The fact that Elder William sees the 911 tragedy as the lighting of the Seventh Fire means that the time of choosing is upon us.

When I spoke with him, he did not have kind words for the Indian Act as conceived by John A McDonald in 1876. It was perhaps the most devastating legislation to the indigenous people, stripping their identities and destroying their culture.

The Residential Schools, in 1892, further destroyed their families, by taking the children away to be indoctrinated.

There are more recent attempts to eradicate the last vestiges of their culture...the '60's Scoop' where children were taken from their homes and established with white families and the White Paper which, in effect, removed responsibility by the Federal Government.

Also, I'm gonna have to keep watch on the events section of Elder Commanda's webpage, in case he speaks locally here in Ottawa sometime! I think that would be a real treat...

There is a gathering every year in Maniwaki, which I intend to go to. It happens on the first weekend in August. Being in Ottawa, you should have no trouble visiting and meeting with him at this informal get-together. Also, he will be at the Gathering of Nations Pipe Ceremony on Victoria Island, June 21 (Indian Day). Dropping an email to the website is not a bad idea either and can produce opportunities for you to hear him speak at Ottawa functions which present themselves on short notice.

And on the troublesome Iran front, I ran into this today on the CNN website. Just in case you are interested, here is the link.

www.cnn.com...

More potential fuel to the fire I guess....Can't see that going well. hope its not another signpost on the "wrong path".

Thanks for the link...Iran certainly has me watching carefully too.
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Originally posted by MischeviousElf

mmm.... are you able to gleam anything "new" or unreleased/rare(book) at the moment on the Seven Sisters aspect of the Prophecies (the great shaking by the creator) as mentioned by the other 6 councils/tribes?

I would not be surprised if indeed there were connections with the Seven Sisters. The number seven figured a great deal in all the traditions...7 clans, 7 prophets, 7 directions as can easily be seen when doing a search.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you can bring to the discussion from the Hopi. About all I have to go on there is Frank Waters Book of the Hopi which has some related prophecies.
If I can find anything else about the Seven Sisters I'll include it in this thread.

thanks for the wats, MischeviousElf
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Originally posted by isisinanna
These prophecies & others like it are all based in ancient folklore and have ben passed down through the generations. If anyone has played the game 'Telephone' you would understand how some of the facts adn points in the legend may have been altered slightly over the generations.

As a matter of fact, Elder William, when I talked about this great length of time, looked at me and with a twinkle in his eyes said that it wasn't so long ago...that it only represents the lives of seven people. At 92, he is a testament to this. I really doubt that anything had been altered in the story as decribed in the symbols of the wampum belt he holds in trust.

I hope this does not offend anyone, I am a great believer in ancient prophecies and in the Native American Tribes' cultures and myths.

No offence from this side...it's a good question which deserves a good answer. A book called 'The Sacred Scrolls of the Southern Ojibway by Selwyn Dewdney outlines how 10,000 years of history was carried through symbols on birchbark scrolls and oral traditions. These people took their story telling very seriously.
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420

link
21 The LORD went in front of them in a pillar of cloud by day, to lead them along the way, and in a pillar of fire by night, to give them light, so that they might travel by day and by night. 22 Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the people.

To my imagination, this seems to indicate a volcanic eruption, more than anything else, but, yes...there are many similarities between the Judaeo/Christian and native legends.

from Ojibway Heritage by Basil Johnston McClelland and Stewart Ltd ISBN 0-7710-4442-9

Kitche Manitou (The great Spirit) beheld a vision. In this dream he saw a vast sky filled with stars, sun, moon and earth. He saw an earth made of mountains and valleys, islands and lakes, plains and forests. He saw trees and flowers, grasses and vegetables. He saw walking, flying, swimming, and crawling beings. He witnessed the birth, growth and end of things. At the same time he saw other things live on. Amidst change there was constancy. Kitche Manitou heard songs, wailings, stories. He touched the wind and rain. He felt love and hate, fear and courage, joy and sadness. Kitchi Manitou meditated to understand his vision. In his wisdom Kitchi Manitou understood his vision was to be fulfilled. Kitchi Manitou was to bring into being and existance what he had seen, heard, and felt.

and;

from The Sacred Scrolls of the Southern Ojibway by Selwyn Dewdney, University of Toronto press, ISBN 0-8020-3321-0

The central concern of the Mide oral tradition was with origins: the creation of man, the origin of death, the introduction of the Midewewin, and the ancestral origins of the Ojibway people. Instruction was of three sorts: a relatively simple, short term course of preparation for those to be initiated into the lower degrees, more complex information and requirements for those aiming at higher degrees of initiation, and a long, gruelling apprenticeship which led- with or without actual intiations- to acquisition if the total Mide lore available and the summit of Mide status. Simple or complex, the instructions always included correct ritual procedures, some herbal and medical training, and a drilling in the origin traditions.

As you can see by the excerps above...as well as a similar creation myth there was also a rigorous system in place for education. These particular books, though Dewdney's is difficult to find, are enlightening in that they thoroughly investigate, through the oral tradition and birchbark scrolls, the story of their migrations from the east coast on Turtle Island (North America) 10,000 years ago and the belief system of the Ojibway.

Sorry to take so long getting back to you, Rasobasi420, but yours is a particularly pertinant question, which could likely fill 20 pages of posts just to outline- there is so much information.
.edit for spelling





[edit on 16-1-2006 by masqua]

Through the correspondence I have had with Elder William Commanda, via Romola and the office of Circle of all Nations, a better 'in depth' rendition of the Seven Prophets of the Seven Fires has been provided to me. I will copy it completely to this thread (as it was written and sent to me) in the hope that we can all better understand how Elder William, the Keeper of the Prophecy Belt, tells the story.

Please refer to the following prophecy from now on, rather than the initial post in the thread, as this one is more complete and pertinent...

from the office of Circle of All Nations, Kanata Ontario, K2L 3K7 (via printed text):

-Seven Fires-

Seven Prophets came to Anishinabe. They came at a time when the people were living a full and peaceful life on the North eastern coast of North America. These prophets left the people with seven predictions of what the future would bring. Each of the prophecies was called a fire and each fire referred to a particular era of time that would come in the future. Thus, the teachings of the seven prophets are now called the "Seven fires".

The first prophet said to the people, " In the time of the First Fire, the Anishinabe nation will rise up and follow the sacred shell of the Midewiwin Lodge. The Midewiwin Lodge will serve as a rallying point for the people and its traditional ways will be the source of much strength. The Sacred Megis will lead the way to the chosen ground of the Anishinabe. You are to look for a turtle shaped island at the beginning and end of your journey. There will be seven stopping places along the way. You will know the chosen ground has been reached when you come to a land where the food grows on water. If you do not move, you will be destroyed.

The second prophet said to the people, you will know the "Second Fire" because at this time the nation will be camped by a large body of water. In this time the direction of the Sacred Shell will be lost. The Midewiwin will diminish in strength, a boy will be born to point the way back to the traditional ways. He will show the direction to the stepping stones to the future of the Anishinabe people.

The third prophet said to the people " In the Third Fire the Anishinabe will find the path to their chosen ground, a land in the west to which they must move their families. This will be the land where food grows on water.

The Fourth Fire was originally given to the people by two prophets. They come as one. They told of the coming of the light skinned race.

One of the prophets said, " You will know the future of our people by the face the light skinned race wears. If they come wearing the face of brotherhood then there will come a time of wonderful change for generations to come. They will bring knowledge and articles that can be joined with knowledge of this country. In this way, two nations will join to make a mighty nation. This new nation will be joined by two more so that four will make the mightiest nation of all. You will know the face of the brotherhood if the light skinned race comes carrying no weapons. If they come bearing only their knowledge and a handshake."

The other prophet said, "Beware if the light skinned race comes wearing the face of death. You must be careful because the face of brotherhood and the face of death look very much alike. If they come carrying a weapon...beware. If they come in suffering...they could fool you. Their hearts may be filled with greed for the riches of the land. If they are indeed your brothers, let them prove it. Do not accept them in total trust. You shall know that the face they wear is one of death if the rivers run with poison and the fish become unfit to eat. You shall know them by these many things."

The fifth prophet said, "In the time of the Fifth Fire there will come a time of great struggle that will grip the lives of all Native people. At the warning of this Fire there will come among the people one who holds a promise of great joy and salvation. If the people accept this promise of a new way and abandon the old teachings, then the struggle of the Fifth Fire will be with the people for many generations. The promise that comes will prove to be a false promise. All those who accept this promise will cause the near destruction of the people."

The prophet of the Sixth Fire said," In the time of the Sixth Fire it will be evident that the promise of the Fifth Fire came in a false way. Those deceived by this promise will take their children away from the teachings of the ELDERS. Grandsons and Grand-daughters will turn against the ELDERS. In this way the ELDERS will lose their reason for living...they will lose their purpose in life. At this time a new sickness will come to the people. The balance of many people will be disturbed. The cup of life will almost be spilled. The cup of life will almost be the cup of grief."

At the time of these predictions, many people scoffed at the prophets. They then had medicines to keep away the sickness. They were then happy and healthy as a people. These were the people who chose to stay behind in the great migration of the Anishinabe. These people were the first to have contact with the light skinned race. They would suffer most.

When the Fifth Fire came to pass, a great struggle did indeed grip the lives of all native people. The light skinned race launched a military attack on the Indian people through-out the country aimed at taking away their land and their independence as a free and sovereign people. It is now felt that the promise that came at the end of the Fifth Fire was the materials and riches embodied in the way of life of the light skinned race. Those who abandoned the ancient ways and accepted this new promise were a big factor in causing the near destruction of the Native people of this land.

When the Sixth fire came to be, the words of the prophet rang true as the children were taken away from the teachings of the ELDERS. The boarding school era of "civilizing" Indian Children had begun. The Indian language and religion were taken away from the children. The people started dying at an early age...they had lost their will to live and their purpose in living.

In the confusing times of the Sixth Fire, it is said that a group of visionaries came among the Anishinabe. They gathered all the priests of the Midewiwin Lodge. They told the priests that the Midewiwin Way was in danger of being destroyed. They gathered all the sacred bundles. They gathered all the scrolls that recorded the ceremonies. All these things were placed in a hollowed out log from the (Ironwood tree). Men were lowered over a cliff by long ropes. They dug a hole in the cliff and buried the log where no one could find it. Thus the teachings of the Elders were hidden out of sight but not out of memory. It was said that when the time came that Indian people could practise their religion without fear that a little boy would dream where the Ironwood log, full of sacred bundles and scrolls were buried. He would lead his people to the place.

The seventh Prophet that came to the people long ago was said to be different from the other prophets. He was young and had a strange light in his eyes. He said, " In the time of the Seventh Fire (New People) will emerge. They will retrace their steps to find what was left by the trail. their steps will take them to the Elders who they will ask to guide them on their journey. But many of the Elders will have fallen asleep. they will awaken to this new time with nothing to offer. some of the Elders will be silent out of fear. Some of the Elders will be silent becuase no one will ask anything of them. The New People will have to be careful in how they approach the Elders. The task of the New People will not be easy.

If the New People will remain strong in their Quest, the Water Drum of the Midewiwin Lodge will again sound its voice. There will be a Rebirth of the Anishinabe Nation and a rekindling of old flames. The Sacred Fire will again be lit.

It is at this time that the light skinned race will be given a choice between two roads. If they choose the right road, then the Seventh Fire will light the Eighth and final Fire...an eternal Fire of peace, love, brotherhood and sisterhood. If the light skinned race makes the wrong choice of the roads, then the destruction which they brought with them in coming to this country will come back at them and cause much suffering and death to all the Earth's people.

traditional Mide people of Ojibway and people from other nations have interpreted the "two roads" that face the light skinned race as the road to technology and the other road to Spiritualism. They feel that the road to technology represents a continuation of the Head-Long rush to technological development. This is the road that has lead to modern society, to a damaged and seared Earth. Could it be that the road to technology represents a road to destruction? The road to Spitituality represents a slower path that Traditional Native People have travelled and are now seeking again. The Earth is not scorched on this trail. the grass is still growing there.

The Prophet of the Fourth Fire spoke of a time when "two nations will join to make a mighty nation". He was speaking of the coming of the light skinned race and the face of brotherhood that the light skinned Brother could be wearing. It is obvious from the history of this country that this was not the face worn by the light skinned race as a whole. That mighty nation spoken of in the Fourth Fire has never been formed.

If the Natural People of the Earth could just wear the face of brotherhood, we might be able to deliver our society from the road to destruction. could we make the two roads that today represent two clashing world views come together to form a mighty nation? Could a Nation be formed that is guided by respect for all living things? Are we the New People of the Seventh Fire?

In 1885, William W Warren published a book which explored the oral traditions of the Ojibway. I have the book on order, so I do not yet have a copy...but, I do have a quote from it which seems relevant to Seven Fires.

from History of the Ojibway People by William W Wallace Minnesota Historical Society Press ISBN 087351162X (also Borialis Books Reprint no. 75)

"The Ojibways affirm that long before they became aware of the white man's presence on this continent, their coming was prophesied by one of their old men, whose oft-repeated fasts enabled him to commune with spirits and see far into the future. He prophesied that the white spirits would come in numbers like sand on the lake shore, and would sweep the red race from the hunting grounds which the Great Spirit had given them as an inheritance. It was prophesied that the consequences of the white man's appearance would be, to the Anishinabeg, an ending of the world."

It should be noted here that the understanding of "an ending of the world" can be interpreted as an ending of a 'world age', much like the Mayan's believed...and not the total destruction of the planet or the human race. We seem to be rushing headlong toward a momentous occasion in our history and, as it unfolds, the results can surely be 'world changing'.
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For comparisons sake, I would present this Hopi prophecy

www.manataka.org...

The following extraordinary Hopi prophecy was first published in a mimeographed manuscript that circulated among several Methodist and Presbyterian churches in 1959. Some of the prophecies were published in 1963 by Frank Waters in The Book of the Hopi. The account begins by describing how, while driving along a desert highway one hot day in the summer of 1958, a minister named David Young stopped to offer a ride to an Indian elder, who accepted with a nod. After riding in silence for several minutes, the Indian said:

"I am White Feather, a Hopi of the ancient Bear Clan. In my long life I have traveled through this land, seeking out my brothers, and learning from them many things full of wisdom. I have followed the sacred paths of my people, who inhabit the forests and many lakes in the east, the land of ice and long nights in the north, and the places of holy altars of stone built many years ago by my brothers' fathers in the south. From all these I have heard the stories of the past, and the prophecies of the future. Today, many of the prophecies have turned to stories, and few are left -- the past grows longer, and the future grows shorter.

"And now White Feather is dying. His sons have all joined his ancestors, and soon he too shall be with them. But there is no one left, no one to recite and pass on the ancient wisdom. My people have tired of the old ways -- the great ceremonies that tell of our origins, of our emergence into the Fourth World, are almost all abandoned, forgotten, yet even this has been foretold. The time grows short.

"My people await Pahana, the lost White Brother, [from the stars] as do all our brothers in the land. He will not be like the white men we know now, who are cruel and greedy. we were told of their coming long ago. But still we await Pahana.

"He will bring with him the symbols, and the missing piece of that sacred tablet now kept by the elders, given to him when he left, that shall identify him as our True White Brother.

"The Fourth World shall end soon, and the Fifth World will begin. This the elders everywhere know. The Signs over many years have been fulfilled, and so few are left.

"This is the First Sign: We are told of the coming of the white-skinned men, like Pahana, but not living like Pahana men who took the land that was not theirs. And men who struck their enemies with thunder.

"This is the Second Sign: Our lands will see the coming of spinning wheels filled with voices. In his youth, my father saw this prophecy come true with his eyes -- the white men bringing their families in wagons across the prairies."

"This is the Third Sign: A strange beast like a buffalo but with great long horns, will overrun the land in large numbers. These White Feather saw with his eyes -- the coming of the white men's cattle."

"This is the Fourth Sign: The land will be crossed by snakes of iron."

"This is the Fifth Sign: The land shall be criss-crossed by a giant spider's web."

"This is the Sixth sign: The land shall be criss-crossed with rivers of stone that make pictures in the sun."

"This is the Seventh Sign: You will hear of the sea turning black, and many living things dying because of it."

"This is the Eight Sign: You will see many youth, who wear their hair long like my people, come and join the tribal nations, to learn their ways and wisdom.

"And this is the Ninth and Last Sign: You will hear of a dwelling-place in the heavens, above the earth, that shall fall with a great crash. It will appear as a blue star. Very soon after this, the ceremonies of my people will cease.

"These are the Signs that great destruction is coming. The world shall rock to and fro. The white man will battle against other people in other lands -- with those who possessed the first light of wisdom. There will be many columns of smoke and fire such as White Feather has seen the white man make in the deserts not far from here. Only those which come will cause disease and a great dying. Many of my people, understanding the prophecies, shall be safe. Those who stay and live in the places of my people also shall be safe. Then there will be much to rebuild. And soon -- very soon afterward -- Pahana will return. He shall bring with him the dawn of the Fifth World. He shall plant the seeds of his wisdom in their hearts. Even now the seeds are being planted. These shall smooth the way to the Emergence into the Fifth World."

In the Seven Fires prophecy, mention is made of the New People who will come at the time of the great conflict in much the same way as is described in this Hopi prophecy. When Grandfather William was asked by me if the New People came from the stars, he said 'yes'. He also said that maybe the 'New People' were those among us who would return to the traditional ways.

This was confusing to me, because in my heart, I wished the New People were like the 'True White Brothers' and Pahana, coming from the stars with the proof of brotherhood in the form of the missing piece of the Sacred Tablet. Now I understand that the True White Brothers are the same as those here on Earth who have retained trust in the Spirit and wish to maintain the balance of Nature. (rather than force Nature to our will)

There are a lot of similarities that can be explored. Parts of the same Hopi Prophecy can be found on pages 333 and 334 of Frank Waters Book of the Hopi
.

Thanks to Dark Magician for providing this link in another thread.

link

The Laboratoire européen d’Anticipation Politique Europe 2020, LEAP/E2020, now estimates to over 80% the probability that the week of March 20-26, 2006 will be the beginning of the most significant political crisis the world has known since the Fall of the Iron Curtain in 1989, together with an economic and financial crisis of a scope comparable with that of 1929. This last week of March 2006 will be the turning-point of a number of critical developments, resulting in an acceleration of all the factors leading to a major crisis, disregard any American or Israeli military intervention against Iran. In case such an intervention is conducted, the probability of a major crisis to start rises up to 100%, according to LEAP/E2020.

-and-

If this Alarm is so precise, it is that LEAP/E2020’s analyses concluded that all possible scenarios now lead to one single result: we collectively approach a "historical node" which is henceforth inevitable whatever the action of international or national actors. At this stage, only a direct and immediate action on the part of the US administration aimed at preventing a military confrontation with Iran on the one hand, and at giving up the idea to monetarise the US foreign debt on the other hand, could change the course of events. For LEAP/E2020 it is obvious that not only such actions will not be initiated by the current leaders in Washington, but that on the contrary they have already chosen "to force the destiny" by shirking their economic and financial problems at the expense of the rest of the world. European governments in particular should draw very quickly all the conclusions from this fact.

(bolding mine)

The warning presented by LEAP/E2020 has me wondering just how secure we are in our collective futures here in North America.

Not that I'm surprised, mind you, since I've felt the threshold beneath my feet and the hands of the stubborn pushing my back.

I'm thinking perhaps the time for individual voices to be heard is fast approaching (if it isn't already too late).
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The seventh Prophet that came to the people long ago was said to be different from the other prophets. He was young and had a strange light in his eyes. He said, " In the time of the Seventh Fire (New People) will emerge. They will retrace their steps to find what was left by the trail. their steps will take them to the Elders who they will ask to guide them on their journey. But many of the Elders will have fallen asleep. they will awaken to this new time with nothing to offer. some of the Elders will be silent out of fear. Some of the Elders will be silent becuase no one will ask anything of them. The New People will have to be careful in how they approach the Elders. The task of the New People will not be easy.

It has occured to me in the recent past that 'the Elders' are not willing to show their respect or bless others with their wisdom or participation in a discussion to someone who is 'un-wise', or seeking others advice.
I assume they are so aggravated with the younger generations that they would rather let someone mature who 'thinks' he has the answers guide the younger children. This way they have the opportunity to not only see stupid people trying to answer simple questions, they get to see the results of both of their 'ignorance'. They also know the best way to learn is from your own mistakes, so in some ways they also enjoy watching us make them.
It's not as if the Elders have any more faith in us than we have in ourselves. And you can't just approach them for help because they are going to be 'sour' towards anyone who want's to bring about change, when the Elders see them as a person who is still to young to understand 'reality'.
The bad thing about that is that the person who would find themselves on this journey would not be willing to tolerate being ignored or insulted by the same group twice.
It' like using a javelin to thread a needle 200 meters away.

All this considered, I still believe the fire of peace and love will eventually burn for eternity, it's just a matter of WHEN the fire is started and if we are still surrounded by an environment that we desire to see ourselves in for eternity.

Good thread masqua
Very interesting.

regarding the elders

Originally posted by Submersible
I assume they are so aggravated with the younger generations that they would rather let someone mature who 'thinks' he has the answers guide the younger children.

There is another reason why, and I think it bears the greatest responsibilty for the silence of the elders. Many of the people have joined the European churches and their advisements on all things spiritual. As a result, an elder who would speak of the 'old ways' of the Midiwewin would be shunned as backward and pagan. To hear Grandfather William speak on the effects of the church on the community would be shocking, really. I have purposely refrained from bringing it to this thread, knowing what kind of reaction it would produce here.

The spiritual education of the children has been taken from the traditional teachers and given over to the ministries bringing the Christian message. No wonder, then, that the elders stay silent (for the most part).

However, I think the tide is beginning to turn in a serious manner. More and more young people are now turning back and seeing the truth of what used to be taught...and it is primarily the young people who are leading that change. Elder William calls them Rainbow Warriors; a group of people who come together from various races under the banner of respect for each other, for nature and the proper management of the resources and environment around us.

What you say is true, in a way...but, there is hope for the future yet.

It's not as if the Elders have any more faith in us than we have in ourselves.

Interesting you should mention this. One of the hardest things for me when I met with the wise Elder Commanda was just being in his view.
I was in the presence of a very intelligent man...he understood the unsaid things and could tell everything about me as I sat there listening. Believe me, this is true. No-one can hide anything from this man...the respect he gets is immediate and nothing can fool him, imo.

I'm 59 years old, and I felt like a child when he looked at me.. and I felt like I was transparent...naked. I don't know how else to describe it. I believe if I had one thought which mocked him or disbelieved him in what he said, it would be immediately known. So, yes, the faith I had in me would be reflected in my demeanor, and he would have known.

All this considered, I still believe the fire of peace and love will eventually burn for eternity, it's just a matter of WHEN the fire is started and if we are still surrounded by an environment that we desire to see ourselves in for eternity.

I do too, Submersible. It may be a painful process in many ways, but, I do believe the world will be a better place for it. I'm changing my lifestyle, slowly and in different ways, but I'm determined.

Good thread masqua

Very interesting.

Thanks, that means a lot to me.
.edit to add: by the way, I really like your signature...it's a belief I hold very closely to my heart
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[edit on 22-2-2006 by masqua]

Originally posted by masqua
regarding the elders

One of the hardest things for me when I met with the wise Elder Commanda was just being in his view.
I was in the presence of a very intelligent man...he understood the unsaid things and could tell everything about me as I sat there listening. Believe me, this is true. No-one can hide anything from this man...the respect he gets is immediate and nothing can fool him, imo.

It seems logical that someone with this much knowledge and intelligence would also hold some sense of 'responsibility'. Him and other men like him have to understand that we have been travelling in the wrong direction for many many moons.
I guess once you reach that age the sensation of being a 'warrior' escapes them, maybe the ability to explain or understand that a better way of life is obtainable, becomes a curse at any age.
It's not as if we could obtain, much less entertain an audience by talking about the way things should be.
No matter which direction you look in, "the good ole' days" start to sound like folklore because honestly, for the children, it feels so far away.

Not that it does any good to place the blame on our forefathers for where we are today, I'm sure they assume some naturally.
Guilt is a tremendous thing to overcome, but once we realize that every generation has made their fair share of mistakes...
we can start to accept responsibility for what we consider as 'ours', and eventually learn that we all share the same burden.

Originally posted by Submersible

It seems logical that someone with this much knowledge and intelligence would also hold some sense of 'responsibility'. Him and other men like him have to understand that we have been travelling in the wrong direction for many many moons.

To be sure, we have been travelling in the wrong direction for more than 2 centuries. But the only way forward is in the 'now'. It's all very interesting to search the annals of history, looking for instances of cruelty and inhumanity, but it does nothing to change things. We can only try to improve what we are faced with today. When we talked, there was a lot of emphasis on forgiveness...not only for the transgressors, but also for ourselves.

I guess once you reach that age the sensation of being a 'warrior' escapes them, maybe the ability to explain or understand that a better way of life is obtainable, becomes a curse at any age.

Actually, with Elder Commanda, at least, the opposite is true. I suppose it depends on the idea of what a warrior is, and that we have a notion that it has to do with fighting and war. But, when he talked about the great hope he had in the late 60's and early 70's, he pointed out that many young people would seek out native elders to hear what they had to say about the world we lived in. He said that these young people from all races grew their hair long and would weave feathers into their hair. They would dance at the powwows and talk about how they wished to be better caretakers of the natural world. Elder William called these people Rainbow Warriors.
He sees the same thing happening again today, more than 30 years later. It is his greatest hope that this time they will be the fore-runners of real change.

He is also very active at 92. I saw him on television just a few weeks ago, on CPAC, a governmental access channel , involved in the process of changing the way communities are developed. I'd say he does more than anyone I know, undeterred by political changes, to further the effort to bringing unity in every aspect of our society. His international efforts, through the UN as well as travels to distant lands such as Africa are increasing, rather than decreasing, as you would expect with many people that age.

Incidentaly, the oldest person in Canada just passed away at the age of 120. This man was a native elder much like William Commanda...who knows, he may yet be with us for another few decades.

It's not as if we could obtain, much less entertain an audience by talking about the way things should be.

But that is his entire intent...and his audience is the entire world. His travels have included Switzerland, France, Germany, Denmark, United States Mexico and Japan...as well as various UN meetings.

No matter which direction you look in, "the good ole' days" start to sound like folklore because honestly, for the children, it feels so far away.

It's not about going back...it's about stopping war between the nations and bringing about a permanent peace in the world. It's also not about all the different races becoming like the NA's, but about mutual respect for each other.

Not that it does any good to place the blame on our forefathers for where we are today, I'm sure they assume some naturally.
Guilt is a tremendous thing to overcome, but once we realize that every generation has made their fair share of mistakes...
we can start to accept responsibility for what we consider as 'ours', and eventually learn that we all share the same burden.

Excellent point. It does us no good to hold the guilt which was inherited from our forefathers.

from Learning from a Kindegarten Dropout pg 145

This in essence is what William wants us to do ourselves: learn and heal from our mistakes and wrong doings. Once we develop this deep understanding of forgiveness, and can learn to be compassionate with ourselves, we can take that lesson to our relationships with others and forgive those who hurt us, and thus move beyond the limitations of our own pain and anger.

Also, William believes that as we forgive others, we must transform the current of energy that exists between them and us., and he urges us to trust that this energy will in time transform them. he in his own experiences has seen this alchemical transformation happen time after time.

-snip-

His unshakeable conviction in a uni-world evolved on principles of inter-relationship, connection and interdependence also incorporates values of balance and harmony, and it stands in sharp contrast to the world view of duality, difference and seperation that the church, amongst others, sought to impose on his peoples. Adults in his community still today recall with horror the nightmares that ensued with a Catholic teaching scroll about hell and purgatory...

Originally posted by masqua
It's not about going back...it's about stopping war between the nations and bringing about a permanent peace in the world. It's also not about all the different races becoming like the NA's, but about mutual respect for each other.

It's just hard for me and most people to overlook our government-the war machine. I don't perceive there being much peace in the world untill their 'true' actions against us is revealed and even then it won't be about 'peace', life will be about curing our disease.

You have a beautiful perception of life, I wish more people were able to share that with you.
It is the ultimate dream.

Originally posted by Submersible

It's just hard for me and most people to overlook our government-the war machine. I don't perceive there being much peace in the world untill their 'true' actions against us is revealed and even then it won't be about 'peace', life will be about curing our disease.

You have a beautiful perception of life, I wish more people were able to share that with you.
It is the ultimate dream.

Thanks, Submersible...although I'm beginning to doubt that it's a dream. One way or another, this new era of peace will come about.

One way...a world war of untold horror, bringing death and destruction on a scale never seen before by the human race. The few that are left to pick up the pieces will have no more need for war and will come together because it is neccessary for our survival. This would be the 'hard way'.

Another way...all people everywhere coming to the understanding that war can only bring the apocalypse described above. Imagine a world war using the weapons and the technology that is available today...indescribable. If we could only rise above such violence and prevent it from happening...

Here is the part of the prophecy which is relevant to what is developing today, IMO...

If the New People will find trust in the way of all things, in the circle, they will no longer need the selfish voice of the ego and they can begin to trust their inner voice. Wisdom will once again be found in dreams of the night and of the day. The sacred fire will once again be lit. The light-skinned people will be given a choice between two paths. If they choose the right path the Seventh Fire will light the Eighth Fire and final fire of brotherhood and sisterhood. If they choose the wrong path, remaing on the path of the mind, then the destruction they brought with them will come back to destroy them. The people of the earth will experience much suffering and death.

There is an island in the Ottawa River, in the center of our nations capitol, called Victoria Island. William Commanda has worked for over 5 years to build a Healing Centre there. It will be called the Island of Fire...the place where the Eighth Fire in the prophecy will hopefully be lit. I'll try and find a link, but there's not much online other than the architect who is going to build the centre. Personally, I'll be on the island on June 21, this year, for a pipe ceremony with William Commanda.
.
edit for spelling




[edit on 23-2-2006 by masqua]

Dear Masqua,
I have with great reverance fallowed your thread. I have but a tiny addition. I have lived in Europe, Denmark for many years and being a church going catholic I have experienced the tides flowing through our church the past 20-25 years.
The church/congregation I belonged to was surpriseingly open, even our elders knew we had to move on and listen to the whisper of the past to become "whole", even the convent where I was a postulant honored the teachings of "non" christians.
I am just trying to say there is hope, man is not blind.
I have heard bishops, vice bishops, people with great power speak of unity among religions, to grasp the wisdom of the past.
I have moved back to my Home Land where the catholics are liveing in an age that has long past. Why this is I wonder?
We would have annual gatherings of every existent religiuos culture. Huge.
And people rejoyced.
I wish this for every nation. Seperation is the power of evil not of our Creator.
I am just a simple writer with limited time so forgive my simplicty, and my spelling.
WIS

Hello, WalkInSilence...I'm sorry to take so long to respond to your post. It's not that I wished to ignore you, it was more because it affected me deeply.
Sometimes I wear my feelings on my sleeve and, when I get corrected on it, it winds up being an embarrassment to me. This is the situation here.

Originally posted by WalkInSilence
I have lived in Europe, Denmark for many years and being a church going catholic I have experienced the tides flowing through our church the past 20-25 years.
The church/congregation I belonged to was surpriseingly open, even our elders knew we had to move on and listen to the whisper of the past to become "whole", even the convent where I was a postulant honored the teachings of "non" christians.

There is no doubt that the Christian Church evolves. I have given up my faith in the church long ago, but never gave up on my faith...I just made it a lot more personal. For me to be dismissive about a religion is a huge mistake...there are plenty of examples of evolution, even in the Catholic faith, and it is demonstrated in the apologies given by Pope John Paul II for the mistakes made throughout history in the name of that church.

What you say is true...I've seen it myself. It's difficult, though, when I'm trying to relate the way Elder William sees the effects of the church on the Native American way of life and how they truly caused so much distress.

Thank you for pointing this out because it needed to be said.

Seperation is the power of evil not of our Creator.

Very true, WIS.

I am just a simple writer with limited time so forgive my simplicty, and my spelling.

I have to disagree here, WIS...you are anything but simple. What you have said made me really think about where I stand. I now know that I need to soften my opinions a bit.

Spelling...pfffft...as long as you get your message across, that's all that matters, and your message came across very well indeed.

BTW... Denmark is a country that has much in the way of interesting history. So few people have looked into it, but the little I have read about it has been enlightening.
.
edit for spelling


[edit on 6-3-2006 by masqua]

Please...
...you have no need to be embarresed and I on my side had no wish to cause you discomfort. Sorry.
As Elder William with other wise men says we must learn to forgive, but I believe it is equaly important to aknowledge our own guilt our responsibilty for the past. I find it to easy and a shameful statement that I had no doing in the murders of those who walked before me. I beleive we carry a terrible heritage that we must make right. How, I do not know?
Perhaps I can use my shame to cause less pain, to remind me to speak up, to take a standpoint and be present in my community. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Seperation is a dis-ease not only among races and religions as you know, that was why I told the little tale.
If the Wise Ones are silent it is perhaps because we come to them with greed in our hearts we ask for enlightment for ourselves as individuals.
We come with pride forgetting to be humble to listen for the wisdom that will preserve the pack. Is this why they are silent why we are astray?
I am not saying you do this, I just think it is a general attitude.

Be Strong and Full of Hope soon the ice will brake and the water flow again. Spring!!!!!
WIS


[edit on 6-3-2006 by WalkInSilence]

I'm anishnabe, from michigan, Ojibway, Makwa Dodem.
I know the 7th generation prophecy well

frybread FTW

also, you got questions, I got answers. straight-up no bs.

the megis shell is a symbol of life and death. the story, goes. that that life began here when the megis shell appeared. at that time its regarded that the spirit world, and this world were one, untill the megis shell appeared. its all regarded that the megis shell appeared once more, bringing sickness and a "warning" of sorts to the incoming of european tourists.

'Sacred Scrolls of the Southern Ojibway' its not just the "southern Ojibway" its all ojibway.
[edit on 24-5-2006 by waffleprime]

yeah, were still around, are culture is faltered but, not forgotten, northern canada and minnesota our languages and full teachings are still strong. questing for native teachings could lead alot of people to 'New-age beliefs..with crystals and eastern witch-craft...theres a fine difference...this one..well code, you could, say we live by...keeps us strong.

"our traditions are a way of life, and not a religin" we have stories of "our" version of god..but, honestly..its not gonna put food in our stomaches..our belief is there but, it shouldn't stop you from living your life...no matter what you beleive in don't let your beliefs in existance live you. *cracks can of soda*

cheers everyone...life is good



[edit on 24-5-2006 by waffleprime]

[edit on 24-5-2006 by waffleprime]