NEWS: Minutemen Are Using a New Tactic In their Fight On Illegal Immigration

You have voted The Vagabond for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Thank you Vagabond. You have concisely explained what I have tried to say over and over again.

odium so impatience excuses illegal activity? and sorry but video taping evidence of illegal activity is within the law, suing over being taped violating a law is laughable at best, a defamation of character suit would not stand on any legal ground in this case since the minutemen are providing proof of illegal activity and arent providing false slanderos information.

Namehere, I wasn't speaking of the people breaking the law but the innocent people who are involved in this as well.

Take for example the person who is picking them up, if it is his job to pick people up for his company he is in fact not breaking the law [he is doing it during the course of employment and it is the employer [if proven] who would have to pay the costs and his boss who would face prison time.][1]

The Vagabond, you seem to think I agree with profiling by any group? No, I do not and it is something I find disgusting [Black only Bar scholarships, etc.]

However, people on here as soon as you say 'immigrant' jump on the "Latin American" band-wagon, when in fact many people are not from there. I even gave a source at the start showing that they come from all over the World - many of them are white and the only way to tell is to get into a conversation with them. Doing that for each and every worker involved in manual labour isn't possible. Videos are not possible to display this and if they focus on one group [over the others] than they will not solve the problem.

In fact it is clear in your post when you keep on pointing out "Mexican's" won't play fair, won't do this, that and the other. In fact Latin American's by the sources I have found make up roughly 60%. When you couple in the differences in ethnicity within all of those regions racial profiling is going to be amazingly hard. Take 'Native', 'Latin' and 'Black' people...and then you also have 'white' people from the region as well who cross over.

In fact, the source I found makes one fantastic point:

estimated undocumented population from Poland has declined by more than 25 percent, from 95,000 to 70,000, since 1988, possibly reflecting changed conditions in that country over the last several years.

So maybe the real answer is for the United States to help stabalise Mexico? Or do what was done with Poland, give out visas for people to work in a Nation and allow them to travel in between both Nation's.

However the system needs to be sped up. That's the best way to cure the problems of illegal immigrants. Make it quick for them to find out if they can come in or not...would you wait over two-years in the conditions some of them have to live in?

People really need to look at it from their view points and see why they are leaving those Nation's.

On another note, Namehere, if the Minutemen showed anyone [even in their own organisation] the videos and made a claim that these people were immigrants when they are not it could cause legal problems for them. I never said it would but that it could and I have had enough experience around lawyers to know with only a shred of evidence they can make a case. For the simple reason they still get paid.

[1] If you'd like cases, I can show you ones in the E.U. that I have in my notes but I do not have them for United States law.

Originally posted by OdiumTake for example the person who is picking them up, if it is his job to pick people up for his company he is in fact not breaking the law

company sanctioned dont make it legal and i highly doubt the driver is unaware that they are illegals, and anyways they arent going to be punished since the company is the one breaking the law not the driver.

i'd think some of you would see this as slave labor, since they are payed below minimum wages for manual labor.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
What in the heck is wrong with racial profiling? Racial minorities do it too. Let's see how far I can go in the New Black Panther Party, or how many scholarships I will qualify for from the NAACP. Let's take an Egyptian and a white South African to one of the "African-American" interest groups and see how they are immediately "profiled".

This is what's wrong with racial profiling: the fact that you as a white person are less likely to be arrested if you do drugs or murder someone or rape someone because police officers are out looking for a black or latino person doing the same so that they can "catch them in the act". Yeah blacks statistically commit (are convicted of) more crime than whites in America, but is that due to black people being inherently unlawful, or is that due to a disproportionate amount of law enforcement targetting blacks? Add this to the fact that until very recently in our nation's history institutions of higher education had discriminatory admission policies (which affirmative action rectifies) and without a good education black youths are dragged back down into the cycle of crime and poverty.

I don't think an Egyptian person would be "profiled" by a black interest group. A white South African is a different story, do you not know anything about South Africa's history?

Profiling is wrong when it is the sole basis for judgement.

But when there's evidence that they actually commited a crime, on top of the fact that they are black or latino, then it's ok.

Profiling is not wrong when ethnicity is a common trait among a group of people who need to be identified,

I can think of at least one example where it's wrong...

People who need to be identified : enemies of the third reich.

Common trait : being a Jew.

and can be used as a preliminary criteria in separating suspects

So suspects = blacks and latinos, right?

from the obviously innocent.

And the obviously innocent = white people, right?

The phenomenon we see with Mexican immigrants is an odd variation from past waves of immigration.

That's because the laws are different now.

My Irish ancestors had a rough start,

Sure.

but they didn't cry for exemption from the law.

Unless your ancestors came to America within the last century there were no laws against them coming here.

OF COURSE THEY DIDN'T CRY FOR EXEMPTION FROM THE LAW, THERE WASN'T A LAW TO BE EXEMPT FROM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

The only reason illegals are even an issue right now is because of the fear running rampant in the american public...fear of losing your job and fear of terrorism. The minutemen are just victims of this fear. You gotta feel sorry for them because they are just clueless. In our culture we believe you can change everything at gunpoint--sad.

We can argue this is profiling AND PROFILING IS WRONG but as long as there is overwhelming poverty south of us illegals are going to come into this country anyway they can...god, they are facing down crazy rednecks with guns!! That proves their SITUATION is DESPARATE...basically, until the poverty is addressed it doesn't matter how many minutemen stand on the border with cameras and guns. Folk are still going to get in and businesses are still going to take advantage of that cheap labor. Address the poverty not the symptoms of it.

Originally posted by Odium

Well it is.

If they follow people around on the basis they think they are doing something wrong, video it and report it back to the Police I hope they get arrested and charged for defamation of character, stalking and tress pass to land if they go on their property.

Sorry, but if someone was following me around and videoing me that is what I would have done to them.

Um, if you arwe doing something illegal, well, then no, its not stalking or harrassment, its investigation.

And they are NOT following people around. They are going to well known locales where illegals wait around for day labor. Most towns have a well known spot where they hang out and wait for someone to come pick them up for work. Most people know where these spots are. Its not a matter of stalking.

Its bad enough that illegals have broken the law and are entering the country illegally. But the bigegr crimes are against the American citizens that exploit them Those people who pick them up for day labor are commitinh even more crimes. They are violating minimum wage laws, fair labor laws, tax laws, worker safety laws, and other ordinances. Illegals who are brought to work in different places are often exposed to unsafe and inhumane working conditions. They are paid less than most kids get for an allowance. And the employers who hire them are also evading taxes. There are a multitude of other sins.

I personally believe that those who hire Illegal immigrants are far more dangerous than the illegals themselves, and should be heavily prosecuted for their crimes. Those who hire illegald are usually rich, lazy, greedy people who exploit cheap labor instead of using fair employment and pay practices.

Anyone who supports illegal immigration also supports human and worker rights violations, and support the rich cooperate fat cats who feed off of and exploit this large pool of disposable labor.

Originally posted by Saphronia Address the poverty not the symptoms of it.

how? mexico benefits too much to fix the poverty..

This is a rather amusing debate here. It doesnt matter how many border patrol you stick on the southern border, they will simpyl start arriving on the Pacific and Gulf coasts.

It does not really matter in twenty years this nation will be populated by majority hispanics. In the meantime policies will be changed, borders are going to begin falling, and humanity as a whole will finally start becoming more united. I hope that those rumors about uniting Canada, Mexico and the U.S. as a single entity of North America will become true in the coming decades. It is time for people to remove their fear of others just because they are different, culturally or physically. I for one would love to travel to the Yucatan or Canada as easily as I could go to Georgia or Texas.

I know a few illegals who came here on student visas. Guess what they still pay taxes because they know how. They have jobs where deductions are taken. It is not their fault however that the system is tainted and outdated. Sure they are illegal by a certain definition. # man my personal mechanic is illegal from Brazil and he fixes my car better, faster and a hell of alot cheaper than the thieves who run the business on the main roads.

My view on this immigration issue is, I don't care because I know first hand how much of a joke the INS is. And in the coming years it will be mostly a non-issue because steps are being taken to destroy borders and unite humanity instead of seperating and force feeding fear of each other, as hard as it may be to see. Goodnight folks, I will be chatting with some illegal friends of mine tomorrow, I sure hope that bothers some of you

[edit on 11/3/2005 by DYepes]

Originally posted by Odium
...how do they work out if they are illegal?

They go and spy on a group of people who they think are not from the United States?

So racial profiling.

Good work boys.

Exactly. In fact, in areas where there are centers for day workers, everyone who shows up has been checked for green cards or proof of residency.

Racial profiling at its finest and most absurd. If they want to make this stop, they should get out of those pickup trucks and walk up to the folks looking for day laborers and say "Here I am! Hire me! I'm an American and I'll do an honest day's work fo ryou."

Take the work away from them by taking it for yourselves.

Originally posted by Odium
The Vagabond, you seem to think I agree with profiling by any group? No, I do not and it is something I find disgusting [Black only Bar scholarships, etc.]

That at least is fair, but now I'd love for somebody to explain to me what is wrong with profiling in the context that I have suggested it to be useful. Declaring someone guilty based on race is one thing; being observant of a demographic which is responsible for more than half of the offenses of a given type is something else. Which leads us to another matter...

However, people on here as soon as you say 'immigrant' jump on the "Latin American" band-wagon, when in fact many people are not from there. I even gave a source at the start showing that they come from all over the World - many of them are white and the only way to tell is to get into a conversation with them.

The website you pointed out says this:

Mexico is the leading source country of undocumented immigration to the United States. In October 1996 an estimated 2.7 million undocumented immigrants from Mexico had established residence here (See Table 1). Mexican undocumented immigrants constituted about 54 percent of the total undocumented population.

And that's just Mexicans- add other Latinos and the number gets even larger. For that matter, just be logical for a moment: all other things being equal, are illegal immigrants likely to be from a neighboring country or a far away one?

Doing that for each and every worker involved in manual labour isn't possible. Videos are not possible to display this and if they focus on one group [over the others] than they will not solve the problem.

It's a major deterrent to 54% + of the illegal population, or at least the percentage thereof which engages in day labor instead of committing identity theft in order to gain employment fraudulently. Your argument boils down to "you can't do ANYTHING to stop Mexicans from breaking the law until you stop every other law breaker". By that rationale, if you get mugged and are found dead in a back alley in a minority neighborhood, 1. They can't single out poor minorities as possible suspects. 2. Even if they catch somebody they can't do anything to him until every other murderer is caught.

In fact it is clear in your post when you keep on pointing out "Mexican's" won't play fair, won't do this, that and the other. In fact Latin American's by the sources I have found make up roughly 60%.

Then what is the disagreement about? You admit that more than half of the problem is coming from a single group of people.
Furthermore I am exactly accurate in my assertions as to how Mexican-Americans have acted. Between kindergarten and 12th grade, I never once attended a school that was anything but majority hispanic. For a good portion of that time I lived in the same poor neighborhoods where Mexicans were dominant. Many of my friends were Mexicans. Many of them were on welfare. I've been to their homes. I've spent years of my life with them. I don't hate them. I respect them as a people and as individuals. Nevertheless I have observed disturbing patterns in many of their personal lives but especially on behalf of the groups which claim to represent their interests.

It is a fact that I know more 1st generation Cambodians who have put a high value on learning English immediately than I know Mexicans who have done the same, despite the fact that I know fewer than 15 first generation Cambodian-Americans but several dozen first generation Mexican-Americans.

It is a fact that Latinos are the primary minority group in this country, perhaps even the only one, which is screaming at the top of its lungs to enact measures which are designed explicitly to render the law impotent against illegal immigrants. The local chapter of the Knights of Lithuania, nor the Friends of Norway, are trying to make it illegal for an unlicenses, unregisted, uninsured illegal alien to have his car impounded for driving without the proper documents. It's the Mexican groups, like MECHA.

It is a fact that most of the illegal immigrants in this nation are Mexicans, that they are acting in a dissimiliar fashion to past immigrants who successfully integrated into the American identity, that they are allowing themselves to be exploited by business to depress wages in areas where they are prevalent, and that the concept of a "reconquista' of the American South-West is very popular among them. These behaviors are not conducive to successfully integrating into American culture.


When you couple in the differences in ethnicity within all of those regions racial profiling is going to be amazingly hard. Take 'Native', 'Latin' and 'Black' people...and then you also have 'white' people from the region as well who cross over.

So maybe the real answer is for the United States to help stabalise Mexico? Or do what was done with Poland, give out visas for people to work in a Nation and allow them to travel in between both Nation's.

To what extent should we do that? Mexico is in serious trouble, and their idea of how to get out of trouble is to steal from America. Their government supports illegal border crossings in order for those people to come here, depress wages, work illegally without paying taxes, and send some of the money back to their relatives so that it can go into the Mexican economy.
What you are suggesting is that if I catch my neighbor burglarizing my house that I should give him money so he wont have to go to the trouble of breaking into my home and going to pawn the stolen goods. I have a better idea: I'd beat that neighbor silly, throw him over the fence back into his own yard, and tell him that if he ever came back I'd shoot him.

If Mexico wants to fix itself, they need to devise a sound plan, a practical way to execute it, and then approach us or any other nation to ask for any reasonable amount of assistance they need to carry it out. They can't break our laws and expect to make a living that way, not should we be responsible for unilaterally fixing their problems to stop them from doing that.

That's the best way to cure the problems of illegal immigrants.

Actually, I think a minefield would do just fine for curing the illegal immigration problem.

People really need to look at it from their view points and see why they are leaving those Nation's.

I'm sorry, I think you're looking for UNICEF. This is the USA. I don't care why they are leaving Mexico. I want to figure out how to make them stop it, or at least leave Mexico bound for somewhere other than America.


Play the racism card all you like. It may look good to those who are detatched from the situation, or who are predisposed to taking the pro-illegal stance because it benefits their race, but to a reasonable person who has been around Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal, it just looks absurd. I honestly do not have a bone to pick with the Mexican people as far as their race is concerned. I have been to Mexico quite a few times to do volunteer work on a improving a small clinic. I go with my former church even though I'm not actually religious anymore, because that's a descent thing to do for people. You can respect Mexican people and still acknowledge the fact that their nation of origin is responsible for more than half of a problem which threatens the future of the United States and hurts our economy. You can respect the Mexican people and still believe that on average they have chosen an unwise way of interacting with their new country. You can respect the Mexican people as a whole and still dispise those in organizations like MECHA who wish to subvert the US Government and turn the promised land which they have fled to into just another little piece of the impovrished nation they came from.

Play the race card all day long. I know a thing or two about racism, because I've been a white kid in a Mexican school and Mexican neighborhoods. I've dealt with Mexican gangs. I've seen the way that some Mexicans treat whites, and even worse sometimes, the way they treat African-Americans.

Illegal immigration is bad for America, it is against our laws, the majority of it is coming from Mexico, and there is nothing wrong with stopping it.

Originally posted by ShakyaHeir
This is what's wrong with racial profiling: the fact that you as a white person are less likely to be arrested if you do drugs or murder someone or rape someone because police officers are out looking for a black or latino person doing the same so that they can "catch them in the act".

I'd love to live where you come from buddy. Where I come from the police hardly touch Mexicans. I remember being jumped and having the snot kicked out of me by six guys- all mexicans- when I was in school. I knew who they were, I fingered them, I had the bruises to prove it, and one of them had my bike in his garage. Nothing happened to them.

A few years later my younger brother mixed it up with a pair of Mexicans. They started it, they threatened to stab him, they threw the first blow. He clocked the pair of them. He got probation, they didn't get anything.

Yeah blacks statistically commit (are convicted of) more crime than whites in America,

You had it right the first time. They commit more crime than whites in America. And yes, they are inherently more criminal. Not genetically, if that's what you mean, but the "gangsta" culture to which many of them choose to belong glorifies violence, glorifies drug dealing, glorifies abuse of women, etc etc etc.

Before you even say it, yes I know that rich, lame, white bastards invented this stuff and are making a fortune selling it to minorities. Haven't you wondered why not nearly as many whites are buying it though? Is there any doubt in your mind that the negative influences would be just as happy profit by poisoning young white minds? There is something sociology wrong with certain minorities in America at this time. It is within their power to fix it; in fact it is in nobody's power but theirs. We can and should be helping them more by offering truly equal public education, but they're going to have to take advantage of it. At present they don't even take advantage of what they are offered. I went to minority-dominated schools; I've seen how they treat it. They don't respect it, they don't want it. They tear stuff up, they don't strive for sucess, and they spend most of their time making life hard on others.

Furthermore, affirmative action does not rectify discriminatory admissions practices. It placates minorities who ought to be getting up and voting and demanding better funding for education so that they can have equal preparation to enter institutions of higher learning BASED ON MERIT.

Affirmative action ought to be a slap in the face to any self respecting minority person. "Here boy, let good ol' Lyndon Johnson just lower that bar for ya a bit- we got it set on white standards right now. There ya go, now go over the bar.... Good job- you're a credit to your race."
I mean WTF! If somebody treated the Irish that way I'd be honor bound to find them and kick the hell out of them. My answer would be "You just get the hell out of my way and leave me the hell alone- I'm as good as you can ever be and I don't need your friggin handouts, I just need a fair chance."

I don't think an Egyptian person would be "profiled" by a black interest group. A white South African is a different story, do you not know anything about South Africa's history?

Key word: HISTORY. That is exactly the problem with a lot of minority groups in America: they aren't thinking about this generation and they aren't thinking about the future. They're looking backwards. They're looking backwards because they don't need a plan, they need someone to blame and something to justify their political power and their demands for handouts.

Profiling is wrong when it is the sole basis for judgement.

But when there's evidence that they actually commited a crime, on top of the fact that they are black or latino, then it's ok.

Brilliant work Watson- A+. Do you mean to tell me that if your mother was killed, and a witness told the cops that he saw a Chinese guy leaving the scene of the crime, that you'd be opposed to the police putting a composite sketch of the suspect up in Chinatown? If race can be used as a starting point for narrowing down suspects, it should be. If a guy with blonde hair and blue eyes and a thick Irish accent is suspected of doing something, Kobe Bryant aint exactly the first person you should be interrogating. Simple common sense.

Profiling is not wrong when ethnicity is a common trait among a group of people who need to be identified,

I can think of at least one example where it's wrong...

People who need to be identified : enemies of the third reich.

Common trait : being a Jew.

Poisoning the well with false analogies are we? The Jews didn't do anything wrong and were not being treated legally once identified. The problem wasn't profiling, the problem was the violation of liberty.

and can be used as a preliminary criteria in separating suspects

So suspects = blacks and latinos, right?

We're talking illegal immigration, so blacks are mostly a tangent. There are a lot more people swimming the canal than there are swimming the Atlantic. 54% of illegal immigrants are Mexicans. 1 out of 2 suspects for illegal immigration will be a Mexican. So yes, right.

from the obviously innocent.

And the obviously innocent = white people, right?

Close but not quite. 2nd Generation Americans, whites who have not entered the country on visas, and blacks under the same circumstances are FAR less likely to be illegal immigrants than Mexicans. Why? Because most illegal immigrants are Mexicans, because the vast majority of Americans (at least for the next couple of decades) are black or white, because since Canadians haven't got much to flee from, most white illegals will be from Europe and thus will have entered the country by boat or plane and thus are more likely to have been documented but simply overstayed their welcome, etc etc.

That's because the laws are different now.

The laws and conditions are better than they've ever been. There was a fairly strong 3rd party that had virtually no other purpose than to oppress Catholic immigrants from Europe, especially the Irish. There didn't even used to be a minimum wage. In the earliest days, before the constitution, people were selling themselves into temporary servitude to earn their way over here.
There aren't nativist gangs or even any meaningful nativist political movements oppressing Mexicans, if they enter legally they are entitled to a higher wage than any other minority has ever been assured of starting out, and the organization of their advocacy groups is better than any other race has ever had. So why in the hell is it that even while they are well on their way to becoming a majority they are having such a hard time crawling out of the basement? Why are they talking 'reconquista', contemplating destroying the very place which they have sought refuge in? Why are they so hell-bent on getting handouts that nobody else has ever recieved even though they have arrived at one of the most prosperous eras in American history?

Unless your ancestors came to America within the last century there were no laws against them coming here.

OF COURSE THEY DIDN'T CRY FOR EXEMPTION FROM THE LAW, THERE WASN'T A LAW TO BE EXEMPT FROM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

Nice try slick, but there is more than one law on the books, you are aware of that right? Hispanics don't just claim exemption from immigration law. They seek exemption from virtually every law. They don't want to be profiled, they don't want to have to get drivers licenses, they don't want to pay their taxes, they want academic standards lowered for their children, they expect government forms provided in their mother language rather than being expected to learn English, etc etc etc. Now I'm open to the possibility that my history professor might have left something out, but I don't recall hearing anything about government forms printed in German or Gaelic. I don't recall the government showing the Irish any lienency in their civic duty; some did riot against the draft I grant you, but many of them did go and fight for this country in the Civil War, and the government certainly was never expected by any reasonable person to give in to those who expected exemption from the draft- that's not racism, that's earning your keep in your new nation, which The Irish Brigade certainly did. What do you think the odds would be of Mexican immigrants being forced to shoulder their share of the nation's load if a draft were started for the war in Iraq? Be honest.

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by OdiumTake for example the person who is picking them up, if it is his job to pick people up for his company he is in fact not breaking the law

company sanctioned dont make it legal and i highly doubt the driver is unaware that they are illegals, and anyways they arent going to be punished since the company is the one breaking the law not the driver.

Actually it can do, it is known as "vicarious liability". It will protect an employee for committing a tort if the employer asked him to do it.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, crime against its people?

Oh do not make me laugh.

The United States took that land from other people, they were immigrants themselves. I have yet to see this new wave of immigrants slaughter millions of American people and force them into camps. So do not talk to me about it being 'unfair' when members of my family have been shot to death for being native americans.

The Vagabond, the problem is they are doing it to one ethnic group.

There are many Mexican people who look just like me, just like many American's and so those will go un-noticed. There is a much easier way than bothering these people and it is employing them for free [and training them] at the tax office.

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by Saphronia Address the poverty not the symptoms of it.

how? mexico benefits too much to fix the poverty..

Back to reality because everything isn't about RACE.

Right now labor forces in the world are in a race to the bottom of the barrel and the government has the power to stop it by demanding that folk in Mexico are allowed to unionize. Companies that manufactor down there have to be forced to apply the same standards as they are forced to up in the US. Instead of doing this, our country has a problem with illegals because up here they maybe exploited but at least their quality of life doesn't suffer for it. Through our trade agreements we ignore the fact that the people in these countries are being used as slave labor for what we use to call US corporations but are now called "multinationals"--truth be told they have no loyality to anything but profit increase. You are right, the governments of those countries are also at fault for what they are allowing in their borders but the USG has the power to make the necessary changes to force the 3rd world to develope.

If fair labor practice and standards had been written into NAFTA the problem with illegals from Mexico at least wouldn't be as bad right now.

Odium stated that the people who settled the United States took the land from the existing population. I'll give him that point. I also know that if I want to do a little reaserch I can show where that has happened in every country on the Earth. People have been taking land and either killing, running out or enslaving the existing population since before recorded history. Before you start spouting off about the US do a little looking into your own history first.

The guy driving the truck is comitting a crime. He is enabling the illegals to be transported to work. Since under the law it is illegal for them to work in the US he is aiding and abetting the commission of that crime.

The statement that Mexico is aiding the crossing of the US borders by illegals has been documented extensively. The Mexican Government has even published booklets telling their people how to cross the border and what to do once they are in the US. This is a win win situation for the Mexican government. Not only do they get rid of a drain on their resources by having people cross into the US they also gain financially by the money sent home by these people.

I have no problem with any particualr race or nationality. I have had the privledge of being able to travel extensively and have gotten to know many fine people from many countries. The town that I live in now has had an influx of people from Mexico in recent years and I have gotten to know many of them. Yes I know that some of them are illegals and yes if I had that information I would turn it over to the authorities. I would then try to help them gain legal status in any way that I could. We have had several people get caught, deported and then come back as legal immigrants.

The issue has been raised that the US should try to help Mexico help itself. I am 100% in favor of that. Problem is that Mexico doesn't want to help itself and the fault with that lies squarely on the shoulders of it's government. From President Fox on down their attitude is that the US caused all of their problems and that the US should just start handing over money. There has actually been threats of using a Hispanic uprising to take over the Southwestern states and have them become part of Mexico. This is the same crap that Chavez is pulling in Venezuala, all that it is going to accomplish it to fan the flames of hate on both sides until there is an explosion.

Since when is video taping someone illegal Odium? If that was the case would these "paparazzi" still even exist today? How about the whole Rodney King incident... by your logic those police officers who were breaking the law could have just cried "hey i felt like i was being stalked by this guy".

The real issue is ILLEGAL immigrants being in this country and getting away with it simply because the government is turning a blind eye. What the Minute Men are doing is what our own government SHOULD be doing. If they were harassing them or beating them this argument wouldn't even exist. But they are providing information to the government (because they are to half assed to do it on their own) and hoping that the proper authorities will investigate. I agree 100% that the place to start is by prosecuting the employers who pick them up in the first place.

Near where I live, there is a 7-11 along a VERY busy main road. Every single day rain or shine, winter or summer there are very easily 100+ immigrants congregating. Notice I didn't say "illegal".. but bet your bottom dollar nearly half of them probably are if not more. They stand along the street, run in front of cars to get them to stop to ask if the driver is in need of work... at least 20+ houses around the area have been condemed because there were 40 or MORE immigrants living in them (a 3 bedroom house mind you)... and yet all you hear on the news is the "poor immigrants". What about me when I was being evicted from my appartment because I lost my job? Did anyone jump up and scream for my rights? Nope.. but when these houses were condemed we had every so called "grass roots" organization crying a river... how dare the police.. how dare the government... shesh...

I don't have a problem with immigrants if they are here LEGALLY. Go get a green card, get your citizenship. Don't hop a fence and break the law and expect me to shed a tear for you... boo hoo.. there are literally millions of poor CITIZENS in this country.. children living on the streets with nothing to eat... if you want me to shed a tear then I'll do it for them...

I say good for the Minute Men... this is something that should have been done long ago. Maybe the gov will get up off their butts and do something about it as well.






[edit on 4-11-2005 by DerekJR321]

I have found an interesting site that directly relates to this issue.
the website is
wehirealiens.com...
It lists corporations, agencies etc which have hired illegal aliens.
Wonder of wonders guess who is listed on the National listing....... INS
Is anyone surprised?