NEWS: Minutemen Are Using a New Tactic In their Fight On Illegal Immigration

This seems like a very rational and human reaction... I am proud that they have started it...
every legal immigrant should support it
every employee that has been replaced by an immigrant that will work for less will support it...
every company that has obeyed the laws and pays taxes for employees should support it...

in fact, the only people who dont like it are the immigrants themselves, and the companies that employ them...
I dont feel sorry for either group until they stop stealing from our country...(taxes,welfare)
so yell racist all you want to... but it is all about money...

There is a much easier situation than bothering innocent people.

are you so sure that they are innocent?
I really truely have to disagree with you on that. I am fairly certain that as this plays out, that the rest of the nation as well as the goverment will agree

Really I do not see them doing any 'massive' crime.

They do a job many other people do not desire to do.
They have a choice to go straight away or spend two years if not more waiting.

The people that you need to look at our the employer's.

The records of their spending are easy enough to look into and if they employ a lot of illegal immigrants it'll be easy enough to find out from these. However the best way to do it is to change everything, taxation, business laws and so on and so fourth.

Really I do not see them doing any 'massive' crime.

So do you agree that there is / maybe a crime?

The people that you need to look at our the employer's.

That is being done as the videos are being given to both law enforcement as well as the tax offices. How else can you determine what employers are "fudging" the books and not reporting day laborers? Unless, you get evidence as the Minutemen are doing or spend thousand if not millions of dollars in infiltrating using undercover agents and their support groups, a simple review of the submitted records will not provide incriminating evidence.

kenshiro2012, it is fairly easy to track money if the tax office would bother. The problem is they do not care about it...

Business employs construction group to do work. [Log of business spending.]
Construction group take amount and then spend it.

It is at the spending stage their is a problem, which is easy to change. In the U.K. we made it illegal to work cash-in-hand in construction work.

In fact, I do believe now the system is you log how much comes in and goes out each week.
If there is a descrepency in this than it gets reported.

It is just the case of the tax office not caring.

As for them commiting a crime? To be honest I do not believe they do. There are a fair few illegal immigrants in my town. They work in factories, where they earn [over] minimum wage. However no british person wishes to do the job. The factory pays their tax for them so they can keep the place running.

I see many of these people as needed, even though a set amount of legal ones do come in it isn't enough and the system takes too long. I can't blame these people for not wanting to starve - I really can't.

Odium, them being here is a crime. But you say "well it's not that bad, not like they are voting for civil rights for blacks or anything evil like that."

So, invading a country to screw over the citizens of that country=good
Sending criminals to jail/deporting invaders=bad

I grant you the need for a low wage caste is needed.
I grant you that immigrants are presently fulfilling this need.
There is a difference though and this is where we diverge in agreements.
You are advocating that it is okay for the illegal immigrant to be here to fulfill this need. the very defintion of illegal immigrant is that they are breaking the law.
Lawful immigrants who take the time to dot the I's and cross the T's to gain entry into this country are given the opportunity to start at this level and as time progresses, they can and in many cases do improve their position in society. Whereas the illegal immigrant does not have that option and has to stay at the level in which they find themselves. This leads to a greater poverty level than what is officially reported. A greater crime rate as these people in many cases will not file a complaint for fear of being deported.
The laws do need to be streamlined to grant legal work status and this has been proposed numerous times but fails to gather the support needed to pass.

As for the tax office being able to easily identify employers who are misrepresenting their numbers sorry, On that note, you are inccorrect. The tax offices do not have the manpower to properly do the job that they have already much less than to pour through every employer's record to find the discepencies. The tax offices can only audit about 10 - 15 percent of returns and even then much is missed.
By the minutemen providing video proof of such illegal hiring practices going on to the tax offices, it povides the information to the auditors as to whom they need to concentrate on.

It has been reported that most of the open warrants in the state of california are for illegal immigrants. The issue has gotten to be soi bad that recently the states of New Mexico and Arizona have declared states of emergency due to the problems that the illegal immigrants are posing not only to the common Joe on the street but also to the goverment as well as the judicial systems.

kenshiro2012, this is why I suggest they get educated on how to help the tax office instead of this.

Watching videos is going to be hard to proove anything, unless they capture they being paid for work they conduct. Getting on a work bus itself isn't proof beyond a resonable doubt.

If so many people wish to help, I am sure the tax office would be willing for them to do a few hours work a week for free. Why would they say no to this?

Full Metal, the United State's was founded by 'invaders'.

How are they screwing you over? You get your cheap food do you not?

If U.S. Citizens were willing to do those jobs, than the illegals wouldn't get them. The problem is they are not unless they earn a lot more money. It boils down to that alone.

These people will work for less, welcome to a capitalist nation mate.

There is a bill in the House as we speak that proposes to train the minutemen in the duties that they have volunteered for which is mainly helping to patrol the borders.
As for training them to help the tax offices....... do we have any cpa's here? If so, can you explain on just how difficult such an investigation would be for a cpa much less than a layman with only miunimal training?

This is disgusting to me.

And people cheer. I think even the German population had a sense of shame over the vigilante mobs rounding up the immigrant menace.

They were "illegals" too.

There's a really disturbing populism overtaking America more facist than xenophobic really. Mexicans, blacks, gays... get 'em! Yeehaw.

Rant man,
Again I ask where the racist tag is comming from?
There has been none from the minutmen. The only race tag has come from the opponents.
Who is rounding up the illegal menace?
Sorry, but instead of playing the race card, should we not endevour to resolve the issue or maybe we should just ignore it?

Yeah, Yeah, that would be much better off for everyone.
I am not attacking you but everytime someone attempts to address the problems that the illegal immigrants and those who hire them. Everyone starts calling it racist.

Originally posted by Odium
If U.S. Citizens were willing to do those jobs, than the illegals wouldn't get them. The problem is they are not unless they earn a lot more money. It boils down to that alone.

These people will work for less, welcome to a capitalist nation mate.

On a side note, if we stop the influx of illegal immigration employers would be forced to pay higher wages for labor jobs. You make it seem as though this work would not get done if not for illegal immigrants. What about the fact that Mexico hands out “tips and tricks” pamphlets to help illegal aliens cross the border? Why would they do this might you ask? Well because most illegal aliens come in work for a period of time and take their money back to Mexico so it doesn’t get recycled back into our economy. Not only that I don’t want to pay taxes for people who are in this country illegally. I already have a hard enough time paying taxes for people who keep popping out babies and can’t take care of them.

No one is advocating rounding up immigrants. No one is advocating rounding up blacks, hispanics, latino's, asians or middleasterners. No
one's civil rights are being trampled. No one is being harrassed or harmed in any way. This is about people that are here illegally. It is about companies hiring these illegals and not paying payroll taxes, this about about laws being broken and too many people turning a blind eye or sticking their head in the sand. Illegal immigration is a serious problem in the USA and it has to be addressed by reasonable people. Dropping the race card or the nazi card everytime the subject comes up is counter
productive to the issue. At least the Minutemen are trying to do something about the problem. If nothing else they are creating open conversation and debate. It is far easier to criticize anothers idea's than to come up with an original idea of your own.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by Yorga]

Well I didn't call it racism, but I'm hard pressed to describe xenophobia another way.

Its out of fear really people do these things. I see them as very small scared people trying to feel big.

I also don't necessarily share the view that there's a "problem" that must be dealt with just because a particular immigrant population has physically identifiable traits like slightly darker skin.

I'm not poo pooing from an ivory tower either. I'm in a small southern town that went 25% "mexican" overnight and hear the jeers and racism first hand every day. Who knows if one is "illegal" or not? But the barber that sneers when one of them walks in for a haircut and shakes his head going "Mexicans" is I'd say the definition of a racist. And he's the type that's in large part the base of angry support for this vigilante movement.

It's emotional anger candy. Like I said, it just disturbs me.

Rant,
In the example that you just gave, we are on the same page. I am disgusted as well by such actions as the one by the barber. I am of Cherokee blood. My wife is from Korea we have seen the racism first hand. I do not stand for it nor will I.
But that does not detract that there is a problem here and it is not one of skin color but one of nationality.
It is not a problem that can be continually be ignored.
Our tax dollars are being spent to house the ones caught in jails.
Our tax dollars are being spent to educate them
Our dollars are being spent to thier home countries
Our tax dollars are being spent to pay for their medical treatments in the ER's
and on and on and on.

People seem to forget you need immigrants, because too many people in the United States [like the U.K.] do not wish to do certain jobs. Especailly when they can gain better ones.

-That's bull. The reason people don't undertake those jobs may have to do with the problem of illegals in the first place. That statement you made is an effect of. Out of high school I started working for a waste company. They paid $10-$15/hour. I talked to some of the American workers who were black and white and they said that 10 years before that they were actually making more money, but with the influx of Mexicans(even with a green card they are still considered "Mexicans") caused the pays to decrease because they would work for less.

What's happening here is our young people aren't able to find jobs(entry level) as readily which enables them to gain work experience, ethics, and responsibility. Basically they are getting plain lazy(imho). If we didn't have illegals working illegally, we would have less unemployment and people would be making more money. Think about it. If we don't do something SOON, we will eventually see that this will cause a higher percentage of poor people and a smaller percentage of rich people.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by Prodicaliforniason]

Originally posted by Yorga
At least the Minutemen are trying to do something about the problem. If nothing else they are creating open conversation and debate. It is far easier to criticize anothers idea's than to come up with an original idea of your own.

And that's the difference. I'm not an idiot with my brain stem plugged into the TV.

If the news says white girls from Alabama are missing in alarming rates, I don't form a search party. If the President says birds are coming to get me, I don't stock up on ammo. And if every sensationalist on TV says Mexicans are a real problem and here to take my job, I don't form a posse.

I'm not one to scream for more laws, implants, and public executions because it's a slow news day and Scott Petterson is a real bad guy.

I don't need to come up with an "original" idea to respond to every sensationalist fear dreamed up by media manipulators and politicians. Not my problem. Not a problem at all in fact.

My solution is to inform gullible idiots they're gullible idiots. And no, that's actually not easier than being a gullible idiot. It takes work to think.

Sorry, I don't fear people that talk funny or look different. Not a big motivator for me to start patrolling areas where they hang out and catch them in the act of being different.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by RANT]

I agree that this issue is being played as emotional anger candy.

BUT - if the focus is on the employers, what's happening kinda makes sense. Cuz the employers are the only ones coming out ahead on this deal, IMO.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

I think it's sad that America is no longer a place that welcomes the poor huddled masses of the rest of the world. Our "golden door" is shut by selective immigration laws hoping to preserve the white status quo. And now our panic has grown into a frenzy, because as the census shows, white people will become a minority in America in a few more decades.

Originally posted by kozmo
... So f'ing WHAT!? Would it make better sense to go look for white males in their 40's if we are attempting to catch illegal immigrants??? Maybe they should case country clubs and corporate boardrooms, right!? We'd certainly catch TONS of illegals going that route, right Odium???

No, you wouldn't find any illegal immigrants in country clubs or corporate board rooms because most of those "white males in their 40's" were born here. But that's also because most of their ancesters came during a time when we accepted anyone who came here looking for opportunity. Now that those country clubs and corporate boardrooms are filled with a new aristocracy we turn away those looking for the same opportunity.

Yes, PLEASE racially profile and drop all of the political correctness crap! It is high time that we use the brains that God gave us and pursue illegal activities in a LOGICAL manner!

It's high time we gave those illegal immigrants the same treatment that George W. Bush's and Dick Cheney's ancestors received when they first came to this country. LOGICALLY speaking it's unjust for immigration to be illegal.

Originally posted by noise

Originally posted by cownosecat
These are just people! They see America as the only way to survive. We can't blame or harrass them in this way for comeing here, this kind of stuff needs to be in the hands of the border patrol and police not citizens.

you make me want to vomit

You make me want to slap you in the mouth.

Why do they hop the fences or travel across the border at night? Why do they sneak past the little bit of security we do have at the border? Because they KNOW what they are doing is WRONG. They KNOW that if they visit our country properly they'll have to pay taxes and all the other crap that you and I have to go thru just to live here. They know what they are doing is wrong!!!! Illegals can come to America, work under the table, never pay taxes, get free healthcare from Medicade and Medicare at our expense and send all their freakin money they make back to MEXICO!

If your family was starving and you stole a loaf of bread, would you consider that act morally wrong?

If they could bring the rest of their family from their impoverished situation in Mexico do you think that they would still send their less than minimum wage salary back home?

Why do they hop the fences or travel across the border at night? Why do they sneak past the little bit of security we do have at the border?

Because we refuse to let them in the front door.

...They KNOW that if they visit our country properly they'll have to pay taxes and all the other crap that you and I have to go thru just to live here...

Actually they know that they would never get a green card if they applied because of our discriminatory immigration practices, maybe they already have applied and have been rejected. If anyone who wanted to come to America was granted citizenship you think they would cling onto their illegal status just to be able to evade taxes? If you're going to play the taxes angle, why don't we take out all the tax loopholes that we have for the super rich? I think they're stealing a lot more from the country than an under the table day laborer who's making less than minimum wage.

Yes we CAN blame the illegals!

For what? Being poor? Wanting to build a better future for themselves in our so called "land of opportunity"?

I wish more Americans cared like the minutemen do.

I wish more Americans cared like the minutemen don't.

They only care for themselves and the preservation of a white majority in America.

Originally posted by Odium
...how do they work out if they are illegal?

They go and spy on a group of people who they think are not from the United States?

So racial profiling.

Good work boys.

What in the heck is wrong with racial profiling? Racial minorities do it too. Let's see how far I can go in the New Black Panther Party, or how many scholarships I will qualify for from the NAACP. Let's take an Egyptian and a white South African to one of the "African-American" interest groups and see how they are immediately "profiled".

Profiling is wrong when it is the sole basis for judgement. Profiling is not wrong when ethnicity is a common trait among a group of people who need to be identified, and can be used as a preliminary criteria in separating suspects from the obviously innocent. The majority of the people illegally entering the United States are crossing our Southern border. They majority of those people are Mexicans. There are also legal immigrants from Mexico here. Some Mexicans of both categories are working as day laborers, but it stands to reason that a larger percentage of the Mexican day laborers are illegals, because this is the only way, short of identity theft or working under the table, for an illegal immigrant to gain employment.
Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to investigate Mexican day laborers to see if they are citizens.
There can be no claim that they are being investigated without reasonable suspicion because there is already reasonable suspicion of a related crime: Day laborers are operating as independent contractors in various industries, usually without the proper licensing where applicable, and without paying their taxes.
If the immigration status, tax compliance, and licensing in applicable trades of day laborers can not be legally investigated, then you must also concede that the government can not check compliance of coprorate entities with the laws governing their trade; you can't see if holders of liquor licenses are selling to minors, you can't see if contractors are complying with OSHA regulations, etc etc.

The argument against enforcing our laws is intellectually bankrupt. Who are the racists here, really? Is it the people who want to enforce our laws for the good of our nation's economy, or is it the people who think that their race puts them above the law? The phenomenon we see with Mexican immigrants is an odd variation from past waves of immigration. My Irish ancestors had a rough start, but they didn't cry for exemption from the law. They made their own way. They worked their butts of in any trade they could find, established legitimate businesses, and built a future for themselves. They did not gather into groups like MECHA, murmur amongst themselves about seccession some day in the future, or recieve prefered status from the government or anyone else.

Immigration is hard, but it's usually worked out alright for people who play fair. Mexians wont play fair. They may not work out.