10,000 Year Old Pyramid Discovered in Bosnia

Originally posted by newtron25
To ask for "all the evidence" of anything, besides be presumptuous, is impossible, for one.

Well how about any evidence?

This is one case where the absence of evidence really is evidence of absence ..... Indeed, the numerous excavations seem to have produced absolutely zilch in terms of artifacts - making them possibly the least successful digs in the history of archaeology!

They have found some nice bits of rock though.

Did you read the report?????


They have evidence, but it is inconclusive. They are in the process of collecting more evidence, but the task is enormous.

If you lived in New York City and somebody asked you what the air quality was, would you be happy with the first sample of air you took from anywhere in the city, or would you be thorough enough to give that person a complete and comprehensive analysis of wind currents, sources of air contaminants, level of toxic gases, etc.

You would be thorough if you were attempting to answer the question in a responsible manner...in a manner consistent with your attempt to fully understand the question and to provide the clearest and most universally usable set of data for anyone else who might come along with questions.

This is what the research team is doing in Bosnia in Visoko. Stop it with all the accusations of "idiots", "fools" and "charlatans" because what they've done so far won't satisfy your unbelievably short-attention span.

For a quick fix, crank up your PlayStation. For answers, take up a field of study, devote yourself to it for a couple of decades and get back to us Essan.

In the meantime, the report that I linked you to, written last year, pretty much tells you what they've found. In my estimation, they have found a large hill, unnaturally geometrically alighned with evidence (YES!!! I SAID EVIDENCE) of human manufactured stones that were manually placed there. If you want more than, you will have to go to Bosnia yourself.

That is the evidence. It is what it is. To be honest, I'm not sure you'd believe the nose on your face if I put a mirror up to it.

The question I have for you is, why would there be a continuing, unfathomably expensive and exorbitant effort, to manufacture this evidence? Who's coming up with all the money to make this all up? And for what purpose?

Essan, you and Fr.Duke are not offering any good counter reasons as to why this can not be beyond statements like: "I don't have to disprove this. I shouldn't have to."

That's just BS.

I have been following the story in detail since it first broke in 2005 - and have looked at hundreds of photos.

No evidence of a pyramid nor of any unknown civilisation has been produced.

Although a number of 'exhibits' - such as a carved stone - are known to have been hoaxed (by persons unknown).

If and when evidence is presented, I may reassess my opinion. But thus far nothing has come forth to change it in the past 18 months.

It is significant that even the likes of Schoch have been wholly dismissive of Osmanagic's claims. As to why he continues on this venture - only he can tell you. Perhaps he's hoping to find the remains of one of the spaceships he thinks brought the ancestors of the Mayans to Earth from the Pleiades? )

[edit on 26-4-2007 by Essan]

Originally posted by Essan
I have been following the story in detail since it first broke in 2005 - and have looked at hundreds of photos.

No evidence of a pyramid nor of any unknown civilisation has been produced.

Although a number of 'exhibits' - such as a carved stone - are known to have been hoaxed (by persons unknown).

If and when evidence is presented, I may reassess my opinion. But thus far nothing has come forth to change it in the past 18 months.

It is significant that even the likes of Schoch have been wholly dismissive of Osmanagic's claims. As to why he continues on this venture - only he can tell you. Perhaps he's hoping to find the remains of one of the spaceships he thinks brought the ancestors of the Mayans to Earth from the Pleiades?

)

[edit on 26-4-2007 by Essan]

Kindly quote links to your references. Where are these reports of hoaxes? Or is it merely something coming from your mouth to ATS ears?

Who is Schoch? A 7 year tenured professor at Boston University? He is celebrated for his beliefs, but where is the evidence for his theories about the global connection of pyramids? I'm sure those studies are still ongoing for him.

Furthermore, if your research, Dr. Essan, extends to Wikipedia, then the quote from the current article there "He concluded "absolutely no evidence of pyramids per se or of a great ancient civilization in the Visoko region." " should give you reason not to take what he said entirely as scripture.

Dr. Schoch said "no evidence of pyramids per se".

Which reinforces what I have said regarding the research efforts. They are using the term "pyramids" to allow further research into what it is that they have found. And taking into consideration what has been found, there is reason to continue looking.

Dr. Schoch has not commented on the merits of the efforts, merely on whether or not the claim of "pyramid" is valid or not.

Correct?

It seems appropriate to include these in my posts, though I don't know why, so here they are, for those who are incapable of interpreting the written word.

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke

pseudopathological cyberbullies

This doesn't actually mean anything does it?

It's also a bit rich for you to accuse anyone of bullying - on your site, which you moderate, you allow the believers to write streams of personal abuse while sceptics get banned for one wrong word. Funny how with you people it's only sceptics who bully.

Remember: It is not up to anyone capable of critical thinking to prove that the pointy hills in Bosnia are NOT pyramids - it's up to you lot to come up with the evidence that they ARE pyramids.

If your concept of criticism includes 90% of UNTRUE accusations and a good amount of character assassination (paragonating a person to Hitler/ to be a 'charlatan'), then I'm quiet happy that my concept of criticism diverge from yours.

The Governments of Malaysia, Jordan, Egypt, Lybia etc. announced their participation in sending PROFESSIONAL archaeologists to Visoko, while the Egyptian opinion about the findings is very clear. Why it has beeen mocked and ignored by the Western scientific establishment?

Is the Western scientific establishment still suffering from a sort of 'Colonial Pride'?

Here's the proof about pathological pseudo-skpeticism and their dirty tricks:

1. www.bosnian-pyramid.com...

2. letter from a reader:

"Dear Sir,

...before Dr. Schoch came to Visoko, he was labelled by many of the project opposers as unreliable, unqualified, as mathematician, as follower of the ‘alternative history’ and paragonated on some Blog's to Graham Hancock. Later, once Dr. Schoch expressed his opinion about the findings to be of “…natural origins…” he became the battle-horse of the same people who labelled him before as unreliable, unqualified, mathematician etc. It was allowed to the same people to publish their articles against the Foundation on Dr. Dowells and Dr. Schochs website/blog. It is sad to see how some people promote their dishonest opportunism and some experts, who should express an objective judgement, are influenced and fooled by such people."


If I remember well, Dr. Schoch and Dr. Dowell were (felt) really offended about these statements. They also have written an article about this unpleasant episode: [ www.robertschoch.net... ]


You are free to accuse me being 'impartial'

take care
Hyperborean






[edit on 27-4-2007 by Hyperborean]

[edit on 27-4-2007 by Hyperborean]

[edit on 27-4-2007 by Hyperborean]

Originally posted by newtron25
It seems appropriate to include these in my posts, though I don't know why, so here they are, for those who are incapable of interpreting the written word.

I thought I posted a reply earliuer, but it seems to have disappeared .....

Anyway, a few threads worth browsing through on the Hall of Maat website:

www.hallofmaat.com...,406068,406068#msg-406068

Also a recent comment on the 'missing artifacts' supposedly discovered by Osmanagic and his team (which personally I think fall far, far, short of what should have been recovered from a normal archaeological dig - but that's of course just personal opinion )

apwr-central.blog.com...

And Robert Schoch's report on his visit to the 'pyramids' - which includes reference to a hoaxed inscription (as referred to by myself previously):

www.robertschoch.net...


Now, of course we are all entitled to believe who we choose to believe. Personally, I'm on the side of evidence and those who have nothing to lose, rather than the unsubstantiated beliefs of someone who announced his findings before he started digging, and who does have something to lose should he be proved wrong. But I won't hold the fact he thinks the Mayans came from the Pleiades against him - 'cos that'd just be a nasty ol' ad hom

"Despite my failure to validate the Bosnian pyramid dreams, Semir Osmanagic and all the members of the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun Foundation were most gracious hosts. They spared no effort to make sure that I could view all aspects of the so-called pyramids"

That was Dr. Schoch commenting on his welcome.

Would a research team trying to invent anything about a pyramid before the one of the world leading experts on the subject be so open about what they were doing?

You make it sound as if Dr. O and his "bunch" are fools who are spell-bound by ideas about Mayans from the Pleiades. Perhaps, but my guess is they are also looking for answers where they believe questions have started.

And from all that has been presented so far, to lean upon the measly few links you put up here as all we need to derail that effort would be even more foolish.

Especially when you are neither an egyptologist, a Bosnian or someone who believes in Mayans from the Pleiades.

I'm not the one who looked at a hill, noticed that, in common with hundreds of other hills, it had a pyramidal shape when viewed from certain angles, and - on that basis alone - draw the conclusion that it must be a massive manmade pyramid, the largest in the world, built long, long ago by a hitherto unknown civilisation

Maybe I suffer from a lack of imagination?

you suffer from a lack of tolerance

My two cents, The people who made this Pyramid, are the same ones who made the "Face on Mars" .... Mother Nature and the elements to be exact.

You are free to accuse me being 'impartial'

take care
Hyperborean

Sorry, I meant NON impartial!

Originally posted by Terapin
My two cents, The people who made this Pyramid, are the same ones who made the "Face on Mars" .... Mother Nature and the elements to be exact.

Keep the change. We can travel to Bosnia. Until we can get to Mars (an show how crazy the idea of a face on Mars is), there is still a chance worth investigating...to some.

The whole point of my posts: if you have the money, the backing and a relatively plausible basis for looking into something, do it. Scoffers do just that because they enjoy their remote control over their shovel and hoe.

It might be Mother Nature, but to a lot of people, the idea of evolution is natural too. Humans evolve naturally. Humans build pyramids. Humans build structures into hills using stone work, etc.....who knows if its shaped like a pyramid? Who the heck knows if its a temple? We're getting closer to knowing what Stonehenge was, but we now know that it ISN'T what we first thought it was.

Visoko may be a similar find. All pyramids aside.

Originally posted by newtron25Would a research team trying to invent anything about a pyramid before the one of the world leading experts on the subject be so open about what they were doing?

Yes. Schoch was hand-picked by Osmanagic because of Schoch's alternative history views...and probably because he is a geologist with an interest in culture and not an archaeologist. After Osmanagic's first encounters with real archaeologists, he's not had any back to the site.

He's put out a lot of bad press about the numerous academics who have all stated "it's a hillside." He's also mischaracterized some of the scholars who showed up (as you can see reading through all the messages here) and gave out names of archaeologists who he said were working with him (when, in fact, they weren't.)

As to research... the "missing artifacts" article makes it very clear that they're not doing research. I've been on an archaeological dig and I know how evidence is collected and preserved. On that hillside they should have found all sorts of evidence (including the grave and the medieval tombstones) -- and this is important evidence to any archaeological site because it tells what happened to it both before and after the site was built.

There's no such catalog of artifacts. So there's no basis for research.

And no one lets something as important as a skeleton get out of their control (and the grave contents as well)! They give a wealth of data about conditions and culture and are considered the most valuable evidence at any site (yes, even older ones). Yet Osmanagic says he doesn't know where they are and isn't raising alarms and screams in all the academic press about the loss.

Something very similar happened to the Hobbit fossils within the past 2 years, and we all heard about that brawl in the scientific presses. It even made its way into several documentaries shown on television. Yet Osmanagic doesn't care what happened to this material.

This is further evidence that what is going on at the site is not research but rather an attempt to create something. If you create something (a fiction) then you remove the inconvenient evidence.

Thank you for the voice of moderation, Byrd. I think this thread needed that.

Although I'd like to allow for exceptions when something as potentially important as the discovery of a new pyramid or other ruin in Bosnia, no less, it is important to maintain principles and standards.

If the Bosnian team made stuff up to draw attention to their cause, I agree. Boot them in the fannies and send them to the blackboard to write "I will not fool the worldwide community into believing there are pyramids in Bosnia ever again." a la Bart Simpson.

Still, if there are those of us who were taken by the claims and what such a discovery could mean or redefine...you can't blame us, can you?

Originally posted by newtron25
Although I'd like to allow for exceptions when something as potentially important as the discovery of a new pyramid or other ruin in Bosnia, no less, it is important to maintain principles and standards.

What's really distressing is that the team, in order to carve the hillside into a pyramid shape, is actually destroying known archaeological sites. That's the material they're discarding.

Bosnian history is being destroyed by their actions. I don't know if you saw my earlier posts, but their "technique" is that of construction workers and not archaeologists.

There is a known medieval graveyard there, remains of a church of medieval origin, and an old Roman fort on top (Romans built their forts on top of hills throughout Europe.) The skeletons may have been medieval or even dark ages.

The "doorway into the pyramid" that they supposedly found earlier (a reference which has mysteriously disappeared) was possibly a well, and these are very important finds (because folks often throw trash into wells, where the trash is preserved, giving us a look at what they used for cooking and eating and so forth.)

If the Bosnian team made stuff up to draw attention to their cause, I agree. Boot them in the fannies and send them to the blackboard to write "I will not fool the worldwide community into believing there are pyramids in Bosnia ever again." a la Bart Simpson.

It's a complex situation. The whole area is quite poor, and has been under the heel of several conquerers. Now a 'discovery' comes that says "you once ruled these horrible people who took away your country and your homes". And who can blame the frustrated people for embracing it. It's certainly more glamorous to the masses than finding forts of the Romans, who conquered the area.

Still, if there are those of us who were taken by the claims and what such a discovery could mean or redefine...you can't blame us, can you?

Nah... but I do want y'all to listen to reality.

find it quite interesting how people deny the truth when its put right in your face. The bible says that eveyone once all lived in the same area. When the poeple were building the tower of babel, God cursed them to speak different languages and they all dispersed. Perhaps this is why we find these structures on all around the world. To rebuild something they all started together. Just a thought

Whoknows?,

Another example, besides the tower of Babel, is the internet.

What is this thing we're contributing to anyway???

The Bosnian & the pyramids in Egypt are build by the same race,they came here on earth around 10500 b.c. build the pyramids using local people as a work force.Also i believe that someone in purpose cover up world history,the lies that pyramids are build around 2500 b.c. can't pass anymore.Wish you best ,Jason

Here is the latest on this.

Looks like nothing proved one way or the other as of yet......

www.icbp.ba...