Can Someone Explain How Israel Was Created?

the jews were forced into exile by the romans after the fall of solomon's temple in 73 a.d. they then went through 1900 years of anti-semitism , persecution, inquisitions, pogroms and finally a holocaust. does israel exist to day because GOD promissed them a homeland ? or because the West wanted to solve the jewish problem once and for all ? i don't know but i'd like to think it's the latter. the palestinians, inhabitants of the land , since islam came on the scene in the late 7th. century argue it is their homeland. who has more claim to palestine/land of israel ? the jews who were ejected and exiled for 1875 years (1948-0073), or the palestinians who were there for 1278 years , from 670 a.d. till 1948 ????? this sitiuation mirrors the history of native americans who inhabitted our country before europeans settled here 500 years ago. it seems that the only way for the israeli palestinian conflict to be resolved is through a honorable and verifiable peace. unfortunatelly i don't see that happening because the palestinians will never accept israel among their midst. they might seek short-term peace , but in the long term , their goal is to basically eradicate the state of israel. i'm not an arab hater. as a matter of fact i'm a lebanese american.m if i had one political wish, i would wish for every palestinian to come and see how society functions in the west where all creeds and religions co-exist peacefully and all are equal under the rule of law.

Actually there is a critical point which makes that untrue, and infact makes that assertion apply only to the Palestinian claim. Israel is the ONLY NATION which has existed there independently.

This simply is not true.

The land did not just rise up out of the sea with Jews already living on it.

Before WWI the Land was part of the Ottoman Empire, and before that a succession of Islamic nations controled it for 1300 years other than the relatively brief Crusader occupation.

It has always been part of a nation other than when Westerners invaded.

www.friesian.com...

[edit on 26-10-2005 by ArchAngel]

The Vagabond

Nice post!! Beat me to it and finally a little bit of history........

Originally posted by BANGINCOLOR
Yes, I'm Googling the subject to death. I feel understanding the roots of terrorism in the Middle Eastern region would come from knowledge so, can anyone explain to me how, 100 years ago, there was no Israel and now there is? I am watching the West Wing right now, the episode where president Bartlett has the Israeli and Palestinian leaders over to Camp David to try and hammer out a peace agreement. Thru this episode I am getting bits and pieces of information. Palestinians made a mistake back in '38 when they were offered their own state? Or something to that effect? How did the jews just come in and take over a piece of land that belonged to someone else? Or so it would seem. Please clarify, in hopes of better understanding today's terrorism climate.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
Before WWI the Land was part of the Ottoman Empire, and before that a succession of Islamic nations controled it for 1300 years other than the relatively brief Crusader occupation.

It has always been part of a nation other than when Westerners invaded.

www.friesian.com...

[edit on 26-10-2005 by ArchAngel]

yeah it use to be part of the Ottoman Empire. But wat was the land belong to before the Ottoman Empire, before Islam came to being huh? The land of Israel or the Kingdom of Israel. heard of the Assyrians?

you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the creation of Isreal...It's all explained in the first five books of the christian Bible..one reference would be the New King James version.. After reading the books in their enritety one can easily understant how and why Israel was created.

The original origins of Israel (biblical history) are as disingenuous as Arab/Muslim claims. Modern Western history recognized the special situation of Jews from WWII. Not only did the Nazis try to systematically eliminate Jews from Europe, but they also negotiated with Arab and South American nations to systematically eliminate Jews there as well. There is also no doubt that, had the Nazis taken over the U.S., they would have continued their "Final Solution" until Jews were wiped off the face of the planet.

So, after the War, Western powers were sympathetic to this situation. Seeing Jews as "Westernized", and knowing Palestine was: A. controlled by Great Britain; and B. had a fairly large concentration of Jews, seemed like a sensible place to establish a Jewish "Homeland"

The 1947-48 establishment of Israel never took into account the fact that Palestine and the region has been a Muslim/Arab "Homeland" far longer than any claim that Jews have on it.

To me, although I intellectually understand the political need for a Jewish state, wonder how the U.S. would have reacted if the U.N. had decided to take over Brooklyn, NY, and hand it over to the Jews. There would be a war that makes the current strife look like a game of poker.

Originally posted by ptownrob
To me, although I intellectually understand the political need for a Jewish state, wonder how the U.S. would have reacted if the U.N. had decided to take over Brooklyn, NY, and hand it over to the Jews. There would be a war that makes the current strife look like a game of poker.

the UN wont need to because dats not where the Jews originated from. also we have many Jews living in the U.S. and i dink they like where dat at right now. not living in Brooklyn alone. of course im sure the Jews may decline politely since it aint Holy.

Why can't they share the land, live in peace like the rest of the world?

I think Israel needs a makeover. Why don't they just make it a blend of both cultures?

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Actually there is a critical point which makes that untrue, and infact makes that assertion apply only to the Palestinian claim. Israel is the ONLY NATION which has existed there independently.

This simply is not true.

The land did not just rise up out of the sea with Jews already living on it.

Before WWI the Land was part of the Ottoman Empire, and before that a succession of Islamic nations controled it for 1300 years other than the relatively brief Crusader occupation.

OK, repeat after me. -the only nation which has existed there INDEPENDENTLY-. Yes, it has been occupied by many foreign empires. My question to you is this: how many times has that land been governed by its native sons, and not by outside invaders or the descendents thereof?

Israel has been occupied by outsiders- the Romans, the Byzantines, The Ottomans (Turks), and British. There has never been a government for arabs by arabs there. There has never been a government for and by the semetic palestinians- for that matter there wasn't even a group of people who called thimselves Palestinians- that's a corruption of the Roman word for Philistines, and they're long gone. Semetic people, both Jews and related, are the natives of that land. Those two groups fought over that land about 3000+ years ago and the Jews won. It was after that that a unified Jewish Kingdom emerged, and that is the only unified local government which has ever rained over that land, end of story.

Originally posted by BANGINCOLOR
Why can't they share the land, live in peace like the rest of the world?

I think Israel needs a makeover. Why don't they just make it a blend of both cultures?

In a perfect word you are exactly right. There is a problem with this though. Both sides have religious fundementalists who will not accept peace. Both sides have radicals that would like to sabotage the peace process. To make matters worse, the Palestinian "government" agrees with and favors their radicals.

These people should share the land, but some of them refuse to and will ruin it for everyone, and they can't be stopped because only one of the two governments involved is willing to try. Not long ago we saw Israeli troops go in and force extremists to get the hell off of what Israel has acknowledged to be Palestinian land. I think that showed a lot of strength and a lot of dignity. Now show me Palestinian troops making an honest effort to keep their people from infringing on Israel. Good luck.

If a compromise cannot be reached, and in large part cannot be reached because tha Palestinian government will not cooperate, then there is an impasse. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but so far humanity has only found what way to cure an impasse which enjoys any kind of high success rate, and unfortunately its a very ugly way- war. So what it comes down to is that the Palestinian government wants war. The Palestinian people need to either take a stand and build a government for themselves that wants peace, or else they had better arm themselves and declare war. If it's war that they choose, I tip my hat to Israel and say, well I tried to talk them out of it, but they're all yours now.

Originally posted by C0le
Brits controlled land there, gave it to the jews, to form a country of there own, There were other places then the current location, That were considered to be the new jewish state in that region though.
They are incabable of compromise, which is why until they are capabale of such things, there will never be peace in that region..

It wasn't right for the British to give Jewish people stolen land was it? Wouldn't you be kind of cheesed off to if some foreign government came in and took over, then gave your land away to someone else? If I was a palestinian I wouldn't want to compromise either! Based off principle, it's wrong, and I would not yield. The Israeli government needs to pack their bags and move to England. They are in the middle of a region that was already at war before they even moved in, and once they moved in they made that region even worse. Israeli's are used to bombs going off on their streets, they are totally desensitized. They tell reporter's that you can't let that thing bother you or get to, it's insane!

Originally posted by TrueLies
It wasn't right for the British to give Jewish people stolen land was it?

Rome stole it from the Jews, Rome split and the stolen land was in the hands of the Byzantines. The Caliphate stole it from them. The Ottomans stole it from them. The Brits stole it from them, then gave it back to the original owners.
The Arab people are squatters on stolen land and they should count themselves lucky that they haven't been entirely chased off now that the rightful owners are back.

I wouldn't have any right to be cheesed off if I was using something that didn't belong to me and then somebody came along and gave it back to the people who had legitimate claim to it.

What you suggest is that if my car is stolen, then sold to your cousin, then sold again to you, then the police find it and return it to me, that what has in effect happened is that I have stolen a car that was rightfully yours, rather than you having recieved stolen property.

If I was a palestinian I wouldn't want to compromise either! Based off principle, it's wrong, and I would not yield.

You would raise your children in a war zone just to keep people who you considered pagans from moving in next door? Let's face it, that is what happened. The Palestinian people didn't fight Egypt or Jordan when those nations occupied territory that the British said was supposed to be Palestine. Jordan's goal from day one was to steal the West Bank from Palestine- why have their been no terror campaigns against Jordan over that? Because the Jordanians aren't infidels. This is about religious intollerance.

They are in the middle of a region that was already at war before they even moved in, and once they moved in they made that region even worse... They tell reporter's that you can't let that thing bother you or get to, it's insane!

It's called taking a stand. They tried to compromise and the Arabs said no. That's no time to "pack your bags and head back to England". That's time to put your foot down and say "God dangit, we can be friends or we can be enemies, and if you don't knock it the hell off we're gonna be the most god-awful enemy you ever imagined."

1. The Jews have a right to be there.
2. The Jews have tried to make peace.
3. The Arab people don't want peace.
4. The reason for the conflict is religious intollerance.
5. Running away every time your enemy refuses to compromise just makes things worse. You have to draw a hard line and defend it. I learned that from the British, and they learned it from a short German fellow with a funny mustache.

Rome stole it from the Jews, Rome split and the stolen land was in the hands of the Byzantines. The Caliphate stole it from them. The Ottomans stole it from them. The Brits stole it from them, then gave it back to the original owners.

You missed the part where the Israelites stole the land from the Cainanites, and you ignored the fact that Israel violated the covenant so the Roman occupation was Gods curse upon them as promised.

See Deuteronomy 28 for details.....

Originally posted by ArchAngel
You missed the part where the Israelites stole the land from the Cainanites, and you ignored the fact that Israel violated the covenant so the Roman occupation was Gods curse upon them as promised.

See Deuteronomy 28 for details.....

Does this mean that you fully accept the Bible as a historical reference, and are willing to accept all the "Books" as empirical evidence? Does this extend to any "future considerations" that may be alluded to?

Just wondering.

Does this mean that you fully accept the Bible as a historical reference, and are willing to accept all the "Books" as empirical evidence? Does this extend to any "future considerations" that may be alluded to?

What I do or do not accept is of little import.

That the Zionist Jews, and Christians use the Torah to promote their claim to the land while ignoring the covenant is important.

By the very source they use to claim ownership of the land they are damned to exile as long as they fail to honor Gods commandments.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
What I do or do not accept is of little import.

And then some.

That the Zionist Jews, and Christians use the Torah to promote their claim to the land while ignoring the covenant is important.

By the very source they use to claim ownership of the land they are damned to exile as long as they fail to honor Gods commandments.

Do you hold the Palestinians to the same theological standard?

Just wondering... Again.

Do you hold the Palestinians to the same theological standard?

I am not a Koranic expert so I cannot say that they are violating any covenant with God, but I am a biblical expert of sorts that does not ignore the Covenant as the Zionist extremists do.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
I am not a Koranic expert so I cannot say that they are violating any covenant with God, but I am a biblical expert of sorts that does not ignore the Covenant as the Zionist extremists do.

From what you have divulged (thank you for you candor), You are an "expert" in one half of the equation, and admittedly "ignorant" regarding the other half... Just trying to ascertain you ability to accurately assess the situation between the Palestinians and Israel.

I believe the broad side of the barn... Has been missed.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

That the Zionist Jews, and Christians use the Torah to promote their claim to the land while ignoring the covenant is important.

We Zionist Jews are very sure our democratic Jewish State of Israel has been established according to United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181

I think history books say the same.