Oklahoma university suicide is confirmed terrorist event- Islamic connection- Channel 9 is source

I still haven't seen anything about this here in Florida. Are there any further updates? I notified another alternate news website and they said that they weren't interested, that is was a simple suicide. Not likely if any of what is said in the previous threads here are true. I think we should stay on this one. No one else is.

Originally posted by Majic
Weighing The Evidence

Originally posted by Roper

A related question -- and an important one -- is whether Joel Hinrichs had a ticket to that night's game.

That should be easy to determine, and the answer to that question will provide an important clue regarding Joel Hinrich's intentions that night.

This has been answered. No, he did not have a ticket.

Looking For The Answer

Originally posted by Valhall
This has been answered. No, he did not have a ticket.

Can you tell me who said this, and how I can find out more?

Majic, you are wound tighter than a eight day clock over this event.

I think it is just a sucide but we will see.

Roper

Memory Hole-In-One

Originally posted by Roper
I think it is just a sucide but we will see.

Not necessarily. It looks like this is being successfully shut down. If that's true, we may never see.

Hope I'm wrong.

As for being wound up, well, yeah. After all these years, I still find it hard to be banal when I see these things happen.

I'm not at all ashamed of that.

There are a lot of people in Norman and he could have walked up to crowd some where and detonated. He didn't, by himself on a bench.

Roper

I think that he was set up. I think that he was supposed to plant the explosive in or near the stadium, but in the end would not or could not do it. If there weren't more to the story it wouldn't have been shut down so completely. Normally the national press would have been all over this. I would have to see a legitimate reason for the story being spiked before I believe otherwise and I can't imagine what that would be. A compassionate press...baloney!

Premature Extrapolation

Originally posted by Roper
There are a lot of people in Norman and he could have walked up to crowd some where and detonated. He didn't, by himself on a bench.

I caution against making assumptions about the motives of Joel Hinrichs.

The assumption here is that he detonated the bomb intentionally, at the time and place he chose. That has NOT been proven.

Why is making such an assumption dangerous? The answer can be found in the many cases of premature detonations on the part of suicide bombers. 49,000 hits on Google demonstrates that this isn't an unusual phenomenon.

Would-be mass-murderers die from "work accidents" all the time in the Middle East, to the extent that it is a morbid standing joke when news comes out regarding accidental explosions in Palestinian or Iraqi neighborhoods.

It's a cliché in the world of suicide bombers.

Maximum Overkill

The official story is that Joel Hinrichs used a TATP (triacetone triperoxide) explosive device. If you are unfamiliar with this compound, I recommend at least reviewing that link.

It is highly volatile and dangerous stuff, and in addition to a second backpack containing TATP (“bomb parts”) found and detonated at the scene (and apparently far enough from Hinrichs that it wasn't also detonated when he blew up), police recovered and detonated what was described as a large quantity of TATP and explosive ingredients from Hinrichs' apartment.

The second explosion residents of Norman, OK heard that night was the police detonating the second backpack.

The third explosion Norman residents heard -- as far as five miles away -- was the detonation of the materials found in Hinrichs' apartment at a police range -- without prior warning to residents because the need to detonate the materials was “too urgent” to notify residents first.

That says something, don't you think?

Regardless of who you ask, all sources agree that Hinrichs left a substantial amount of explosives behind. Far more than could possibly be needed for an “individual suicide”.

Ironically, the use of TATP is the strongest indication I have seen so far that Hinrichs was not greatly concerned for his personal safety. It is a very, very dangerous compound.

On the other hand, according to a credible source backed up by an undercover police officer, he also tried to buy a huge quantity of ammonium nitrate (“Everything you've got”) prior to the blast.

A huge quantity of explosives is not necessary to commit suicide.

If Joel Hinrichs truly did intend suicide, why did he place the lives of his roommate and neighbors in such danger? If he would have made even the slightest mistake while preparing TATP in his apartment, several other people could have been seriously injured or killed.

I cannot reconcile the theory that “Joe didn't want to hurt anyone” with such a reckless attitude.

Hinrichs knew damn well what he was doing.

Jumping To Conclusions

In my opinion, way too many people are jumping to conclusions.

I see one group of people jumping on any rumor to prove that Joel Hinrichs was an Islamic terrorist.

I see another group -- which includes the officials trusted with investigating this case -- jumping to the conclusion that Hinrichs was an “individual suicide” without conclusive evidence to that effect.

Officially, “authorities are treating this as a suicide”. This simple statement indicates that a bias has already crept into the investigation. Such a bias will necessarily influence the outcome.

I am sorely disappointed to see such assumptions in an investigation publicized. I expect better from professional law enforcement than that.

For my part, I continue to follow this story with keen interest, and I continue to NOT know what actually happened.

The only thing I'm sure of is that this story has been spiked, and as I have repeatedly said, I find that too suspicious to ignore.

If I'm wrong about this story being spiked, it's because I don't know what a spike is, because I've been witnessing it since the story broke -- and then quickly disappeared and was soft-pedaled by the national news organs.

Something's just not right here. :shk:





[edit on 10/9/2005 by Majic]

Originally posted by Majic
Looking For The Answer

Originally posted by Valhall
This has been answered. No, he did not have a ticket.

Can you tell me who said this, and how I can find out more?

Okay, this is why I have been, and continue to be, kind of aggravated by your claims that this is not being reported. The following link

newsok.com.../main

was posted by Roper on page 1 of this very thread. So you are not even keeping up with the media coverage that is being linked here....but then you're willy-nilly claiming spikes and black-outs on this.

*sigh*

Think Locally, Accuse Globally

Originally posted by Valhall
Okay, this is why I have been, and continue to be, kind of aggravated by your claims that this is not being reported. The following link

newsok.com.../main

was posted by Roper on page 1 of this very thread. So you are not even keeping up with the media coverage that is being linked here....but then you're willy-nilly claiming spikes and black-outs on this.

*sigh*

This is from my first post to this thread:

Originally posted by Majic
So far, I have concluded only that the U.S. national media -- and apparently the international media -- are not carrying this story for some reason. I am suspicious of the reason, and I don't know what it is.

Emphasis mine.

I also described my position in great detail in this post.

And yet again, in this post, in a direct response to you. Here's the entirety of that post:

Originally posted by Majic
The Story Of The Story

Originally posted by Valhall
Why would I be saying that when I've said several times in two threads they ARE covering it? They just aren't freaking out for the sake of freaking out. There's a big difference isn't there?

It's being covered locally, and spiked nationally.

I want to know how and why it is being spiked.

Who is it that can shut down the national news like this?

I can't be the only American who sees this sort of national media control as a flashing warning light.

There is much, much more to this story than ab apparent terrorist attack that failed.

With each passing day, the national silence on this incident becomes more suspect.

Emphasis mine.

I made that statement four days ago, on October 5. I have not changed my position on this since I first posted it here.

The link you just posted is one I have posted here, in my podcast thread. NEWSOK.com is a LOCAL news source.

Obviously, I am aware of NEWSOK.com, since I've been linking to them all week. They are a primary source for me. Why the bizarre implication that I don't know about a source I've repeatedly cited?

I am absolutely unable to understand how you could be reading my posts and still misrepresent my position so spectacularly.

Communication Breakdown

Val, you are accusing me of doing something I am not doing. A local news source is not a national news source.

ONCE AGAIN, I am claiming that the NATIONAL news is spiking this story. I am NOT claiming that the LOCAL news is spiking the story.

I am getting most of my news from LOCAL sources, like the source you linked to, because I CANNOT FIND THIS NEWS FROM NATIONAL SOURCES. I am suspicious of the disparity in coverage.

Sorry for the bold caps, but holy crap, how many times do I have to keep saying this?

Why, despite my exhaustive attempts to explain my position, are you unable to understand it?

How can I help you understand my position?

I'm open to ideas.

Please, help me clear this up.

Am I Wrong?

I have repeatedly challenged my fellow members to point me to the extensive national coverage of this story that I am unable to see.

Claims that this story is not being spiked can easily be verified by posting the links to the coverage. I am more than happy to discuss my claims in greater detail, and concede that I may somehow be wrong, although that's hard to understand, since I've been following national news for decades.

If I'm wrong, why not prove my claims are wrong instead of pointing fingers at me?

Why the hostility? Why the failure to understand what I am trying so hard to make clear? Why the repeated misrepresentation of my position?

Aren't we supposed to be denying ignorance instead of pointing fingers at each other?

Val, at this point, I honestly believe you really don't know what I'm saying.

Please, help me help you to understand so we can stop wasting time with this nonsense.

Okay, at this point we have a kid who seems to have had a dysfunctional relationship with his father....that theory can either be accepted or discarded and doesn't make much difference to the rest.

His father has stated his suicide does not surprise him.

His brother has stated his suicide does not surprise him.

The manner does. But the manner does NOT come out of the blue because the kid was fixated with pyrotechnics and explosives from a VERY early age.

There is no evidence he tried to enter the stadium short of second hand info from an OU student. No guard at the stadium has confirmed that rumor. There is no evidence he purchased a ticket...not even from the scalpers outside the gate.

He didn't sit on the bus bench directly in front of the stadium gates - where he could have sit until half-time and blown untolds away with himself. Instead, he went across one street, across that block, and sat looking away from the stadium and far too far away to do any damage to the people inside. IN ADDITION, the location he was sitting made it highly probably that NO large amount of people would EVER being walking by him even at half-time...because Campus Corner is due north and the eateries and bars that are not at Campus Corner are due east of the stadium.

He was a tortured soul who ended his life utilizing a method that he had been fixated with for years....he blew himself up. I'm assuming if your fixation is guns, you blow your head off with a gun...if your fixation is explosives...you go out with a bang.

Members and clergy of the mosque have stated he was NOT a member, nor do they ever remember him being at the mosque. His Pakistani room mate - Cheema - is reportedly an atheist.

Short of a website that has a long history of alarmist posting that they don't mind jumping the gun over waiting for evidence on - that's Homelandsecurityus - a.k.a. NEIN - and a couple of radio talk show people who are ALWAYS looking for a twist to make their name on - this story doesn't have much to it to spike.

One lonely kid is dead...and short of a bus driver being blown to the ground by the blast - but not suffering any injury - that's about it.

Bottom line is there is NO information.

I do not feel like listing the reasons that are contained in many of these links to show that this was not a random suicide. This has been done, It was an attempted suicide bombing in the US.

and whether or not he has strong ties to a Muslim community or not, the fact is it happened, and someone had to put that in his head. he had a history of depression and lonliness according to his father, not violence, so why the predispostion to blow himself up 100 yards from 80,000 people? Why not just do it alone in the woods and blow himself up?

rhis is a sign of things to come, there are alot of impressionable young youth out there...

Take a look at this story

www.msnbc.msn.com...

strange....

and here is your cover up

www.wpbfnews.com...


[edit on 10-10-2005 by esdad71]

[edit on 10-10-2005 by esdad71]

[edit on 10-10-2005 by esdad71]

and now this,

www.dentonrc.com...

Mr. Hinrichs' Pakistani roommate, Fazal M. Cheema, is Muslim, although not particularly religious, according to regulars at the Norman mosque.

Mr. Cheema worked at the football stadium, according to the OU student directory, and the men lived at Parkview Apartments, a university-owned property popular with Islamic students because it is adjacent to the local mosque.

His roommate worked at the stadium!!!!!
This is ridiculous, was his roommate not there when he arrived at the stadium. My god, an inside job gone wrong...

Meanwhile, OU officials addressed allegations that Mr. Hinrichs tried to enter the Gaylord Family-Oklahoma Memorial Stadium, about 100 yards from where the explosion happened. University spokeswoman Catherine Bishop said officials reviewed ticket records and determined Mr. Hinrichs didn't purchase a ticket from any university outlet.

Of course he didn't have a ticket, he had his roommate to let him in. Where is the roommate, and the tickets outof the country sound a little more reasonable...

That's been covered too, since shortly after the first weekend. Cheema worked(s) for the sports department.

P.S. Hinrichs was more like 200 yards or so away. He was across a street and across a block away from the stadium. He was on the second street over...not the first.


[edit on 10-10-2005 by Valhall]

Since it has been covered, it is dimissed. You kinda sound like te CIA


Why so much interest in debunking?


Somewhere in the middle is the truth....

No, no no. See there aren't extreme positions to this. I pointed out that it has been covered in the media. I have no conclusion on this. I'm just sticking with the facts, as we know them, right now. That's what I try to do on anything...some times I get swept away too.

I have no problem questioning anything that comes out, or keeping it in the pile of evidence. I do have a problem jumping to conclusions.

But since we're on the subject...I'll tell you what I've been speculating on. Note...not a darned bit of evidence to back this.

While we're speculating on spikes and black-outs on the exploding-boy story here in Indian Territory, there has been an actual and confirmed spike that has occurred in the past week. It has been confirmed that a news agency knew of the NYC subway threat at least 2 days before it was announced to the public. Bloomberg, in his initial press conference announcing the increased security and driving threat, made the statement media had known about this since MONDAY - that would be of last week.

Meanwhile, the official statement was that the threat had been kicked out of somebody over in Iraq - JUST THE DAY BEFORE the threat was announced. That statement was repeated by national media (see why we really don't need them if we want to find the truth???) through-out the remainder of the week.

Here's where my mind wanders when I let it - was the information concerning the NYC subway plot revealed in the search of Hinrich's apartment? Did the authorities learn of this threat from documents they retrieved in the search?...which would have been Sunday or Monday.

Now there's something to think about.


[edit on 10-10-2005 by Valhall]

I posted your same thought in another thread about the NYC scare. The beginning of Ramadan was also stated in a memo last year between Osama and another head of AQ, Zahawari (sp) to be the beginning of another campaign of terror in the US.

The fact that they have not released ANY type of letter left behind?

At night we may wish we all lived in the Leave it to Beaver 50's, but it is not so anymore. Welcome to the new milennia

Well, I've listed the things previously in this that would lead you to believe lonely boy exploding. And I don't want anybody thinking that means I've concluded that's it, so here's my list of things that don't sit right:

I don't like the fact that a paragraph was removed and replaced in the October 2nd FBI statement on this. I don't like it more that it was about the most crucial paragraph in the statement.

I don't like the fact the search warrant was sealed by the Justice Department and I wish one of the local media would push on that in some capacity - legally I'm saying - just to see what the reason is for why they get turned down. (National security issues??? )

I don't like the fact we haven't heard a thing about whether the 13 bottles taken from Hinrichs' car were full or empty, or whether they had any residue - and what that residue was.

Those are the issues surrounding this that bug me.

Originally posted by Valhall
Here's where my mind wanders when I let it - was the information concerning the NYC subway plot revealed in the search of Hinrich's apartment? Did the authorities learn of this threat from documents they retrieved in the search?...which would have been Sunday or Monday.

Now there's something to think about.


[edit on 10-10-2005 by Valhall]

Well Val, I'm so glad you brought this up. These were my thoughts exactly (my post is on the first page of this thread); however, like you, I'd really rather not jump to speculations. I'd like to wait and see how this unfolds. If it unfolds.

My thoughts are on the roommate. Has he been 'officially' questioned? If so, has he been 'officially' cleared? Where is this roommate? Could he be the person who passed the lie detector?



[edit on 10-10-2005 by SourGrapes]

Originally posted by SourGrapes


Well Val, I'm so glad you brought this up. These were my thoughts exactly (my post is on the first page of this thread); however, like you, I'd really rather not jump to speculations. I'd like to wait and see how this unfolds. If it unfolds.

My thoughts are on the roommate. Has he been 'officially' questioned? If so, has he been 'officially' cleared? Where is this roommate? Could he be the person who passed the lie detector?



[edit on 10-10-2005 by SourGrapes]

He has been officially questioned. As of Friday he was still at OU. Don't know if he's the person who passed the lie detector.

As far as I'm concerned this matter is not resolved - as long as it is not resolved that means there is no conclusion that can be made in any direction. That's my whole argument against some of the statements made in a couple or three threads on this. All we can do is continue to list the evidence, incongruities, etc. And wait for the FBI to start talking. That's all the media can do as well.