Oklahoma university suicide is confirmed terrorist event- Islamic connection- Channel 9 is source

The local media in Oklahoma has now confirmed that the OU suicide is in fact, a failed bombing... and not a suicide bombing...



VIDEO LINK... CHOOSE "MORE DETAILS EMERGE"

new sources admit that there were 5 people involved, and that his roomate had just purchased two tickets to algeria (he is from pakistan)

there were two explosions, and the second was the destruction of some of the bomb making material (FBI). there is also some being kept for evidence.

They also confirm an islamic connection due to the terrorists recent visits to the islamic center. They do not say it was an Islamic center sponsored action or any such connection... only that he had recently spent much time there...

this is all just emerging, and i am sure that more will be released... this is what they know for sure...

Channel is a "gaylord" owned news outlet, and is usually very responsible towards information... They also have strong reason to NOT print or broadcast anything related to this, but still are...
(The Gaylord Family is an OU contributor)

We can all just be thankful that he didn't succeed.



[edit on 6-10-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

Skepticism Versus Cynicism

I am following this story closely and with keen interest. I am not convinced that this was necessarily a failed terrorist attack, but I am seeing information emerge that demands further investigation.

So far, I have concluded only that the U.S. national media -- and apparently the international media -- are not carrying this story for some reason. I am suspicious of the reason, and I don't know what it is.

Skepticism requires an open mind, cynicism requires the opposite.

I encourage skepticism in this case. Skepticism of the official story that is being pushed without substantiation, skepticism of national press indifference to what is clearly a story of national interest and skepticism of the evidence being presented by NewsOK.com and The Oklahoma Daily, the OU student newspaper.

Cynicism requires nothing more than apathy, or a willingness to trust the official story without corroboration. I discourage such an approach, but such a decision is up to each member to make.

That fact that this story is not being carried nationally is suspicious on its face. Compare this story to others being carried. There is a glaring discrepancy.

Discrepancies like this scream for investigation.

The absurdity of the news blackout in this case is what attracted me to it.

The claims made by President Boren right after the incident don't add up.

The truth is being withheld.

Why?

Please Look Into This Yourself. It's Important!

When a fellow member alerts you to a story like this, you are free to ignore it, of course.

I have been registered here for almost 15 months. I have made several posts on several subjects. Based on my posting history, my fellow members can conclude what they like about my temperament and credibility.

I ask my fellow members to consider how many times have I gone nuts like this on a story. When was the last time I did? Can you remember when that was? Got links?

Why am I so passionate about getting my fellow members to look into this story?

I urge my you to investigate and find out.

Without doing that, the only conclusions anyone can draw are from a position of ignorance.

Please don't ignore this.

Deny Ignorance.


Related threads:

NEWS: Explosion Kills One at University of Oklahoma

Spike: The Oklahoma Suicide Bomber

Other sources:

Officer had clue before OU blast

NEWS 9 footage:

Bomber tried to enter stadium on multiple occasions, had ticket to game

Tried to buy ammonium nitrate, Norman police had prior knowledge of attempted purchase

Additional explosives found, Others involved, Plane ticket to Algeria

Screencaps from NEWS 9 footage:









[edit on 10/6/2005 by Majic]

There is now a credible threat to the NYC transit department. Could last weekend have been a dry run to see what the response would be from not only the gov't, but the media?

Originally posted by esdad71
There is now a credible threat to the NYC transit department. Could last weekend have been a dry run to see what the response would be from not only the gov't, but the media?

Or, perhaps to focus attention to OKC? This could be the reason for a media blackout.

Edit:

Has anyone been arrested in the OKC case? The report said something about a roommate, was the roommate arrested? Could this be the source of information for NYC? Feds may have the OKC story on black out so to uncover the NYC threat.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by SourGrapes]

i haven't heard anything of this until today which is rather odd. in the war against terrorism, are american extremist getting a free pass as to maintain the prejudice only foreign islamic extremist are the only ones to commit such acts against our people?

but then you'd have to look at it from another angle. scrutinizing the theories that the govt. wants more events as such to allow them to have even more control over you. so ideally they would've liked to see this story plastered in america to make you feel as if to be weary of your neighbor as he too can be a comm.. err .. terrorist and a new era of the red scare will usher in.

this is very odd indeed, definitely worth investigating. too bad i'm almost leaving work to search a bit but i'll get to it eventually.

good post, should make for some intriguing conversations.

Originally posted by esdad71
There is now a credible threat to the NYC transit department. Could last weekend have been a dry run to see what the response would be from not only the gov't, but the media?

Nice tie in there esdad!
I was just thinking along the same lines!

No news about this whatsoever in europe, this goes deeper than I thought, keep us posted!!!!!

Majic is right
be skeptical...

just because this is a respected newspaper... they might be reacting more than investigating...

the recent info release does jive with what I am hearing from an OU student, but he also cannot verify source...

at this time, we can only assert that the Daily Oklahoman and News Channel 9 feel that they have enough evidence to state:

at least 5 more people involved...
he tried to buy ammonium nitrate 4 days previous
he visited the Islamic center on several occassions in the weeks preceding.
there are two tickets to algiers held in his roomates name.
there were numerous other items/materials used for building bombs removed from the scene.

from other sources on the scene (eye witnesses) we have:

there is shrapnel in nearby trees (to explosion site)
there were pieces of his skull found on a nieghboring building (it was shaved clean of hair)
it appears he was leaning over the bag, when it went off... not clutching it... or wearing it... as if he was reaching inside...
his hat was found on the bench...

still many questions unanswered...
I almost feel that this info from newsOK was a reaction to the need for more info...
since students and teachers had already discovered and reported more than the FBI or New media... perhaps they didn't want to seem like idiots for being the last to know.

Keep an open mind... but a vigiliant heart...


[edit on 6-10-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

hey what's the talk about this guy planting other bombs under the buses? (Obviously to explode them once the people exited the stadium and filled the buses.)

Waiting For The Bus

I haven't seen anything substantiating the theory that he may have been trying to bomb a bus.

However, there were three buses nearby when the bomb went off, and it is possible that he may have been preparing the bomb for planting on the nearby bus.

According to an unverified report (i.e., a rumor), a bus driver claimed to have "seen the whole thing", and said Hinrichs appeared to be trying to move materials from the backpack to inside his shirt when the explosion occurred.

My advice is to avoid placing too much faith in any theories at this point -- including the official "individual suicide" theory, which was publicized at a time when such a theory could not have been proven, and prior to the conclusion of the official investigation.

It is too early for anyone to honestly know what really happened.

The wisest course of action is to gather as much credible information as possible and let it speak for itself.

I posted a link farm with some additional sources in the "Spike" thread, for those who may be interested in further studying this peculiar case.

I know that some people (me included) think the the following website can be completely off base, but many times they do report info prior to its disclosure.

www.homelandsecurityus.com...

Read all of the articles regarding this situation. Very interesting.

dcgolf, can you fix that link please....or is it just me?

Try this one.

www.homelandsecurityus.com...

Channel 9 at 10:00 oclock, didn't include any statements regarding the Islamic connections...
at this time, I think it is prudent to assume doubt there...
they haven't retracted anything, but have become silent regarding those claims.
perhaps they found the homeland security website and thought it was a government source...

at least in regards to a direct larger islamic plot... lets remain skeptical...

the little bit of info released last night only said that others were being looked at. and it only said that he had recently spent time at the islamic center... (that is the info that seems to be "retracted" by silence)

One possible interpretation might be that he was "inspired" but not affected by his connections there...

afterall... suicide is a sin in almost all religions except Islam...
so this still leaves the door wide open regarding that connection and its relevance.

They have also removed comment about the tickets to Algiers that were in his roomates name (who was supposidly an athiest from pakistan *source classmate)
maybe they discovered a family trip that explained those...although timing is very suspicious, and i have still not seen a confirmed report as to the date of those tickets departure... which would tell us much.

there seems to still be a lot they are not telling us... still no mention of any other constructed bombs in the media...

I have heard rumors from campus that say otherwise... but rumors are just that... until proven or disproven...

from Majic
So far, I have concluded only that the U.S. national media -- and apparently the international media -- are not carrying this story for some reason. I am suspicious of the reason, and I don't know what it is.

This morning I saw the incident mentioned in a crawl at the bottom of the screen while other news was being reported. Suicide motive was mentioned, nothing else.

Local conservative talk radio here in Tulsa has been all over this today. According to them (take that for what it is worth) the young man who died had been attending a local mosque. Apparently this is an extremely large mosque in Norman that also had some ties to Timothy McVeigh. They talked about rampant speculation now that instead of a white supremacy link to the OKC bombings it was possibly a mulsim extremist connection.

Several callers really drilled them on the connections between the recent bombing and the mosque and they reported that news sources in OKC and Tulsa were working on confirmation but had already linked several of his friends to this mosque which they say is known by the FBI for preaching very radical views and supporting suicide bombers.

Since we also know that a couple of days before he was stopped from buying amonium nitrate at a feed store and an off duty police officer reported him to the bomb squad and his superiors he may have had some bigger plans. According to the news here once they came on scene they immediately knew who the victim was as they were investigating him.

Personally I will not be surprised to find it was simply a troubled young man who committed suicide in a dramatic fashion but you never know. I am trying to do more research on this mosque. The talk radio personalities talk about it like it is a well known fact. I had never heard this and actually know someone who was later charged and convicted for terrorism here and his girlfriend had ties to the origional OKC bombing. I thought I was pretty well informed.

Nein On NEIN

I tend to avoid homelandsecurityus.com, aka NorthEast Intelligence Network (NEIN) as a news source because of that site's track record.

However, some of the things they are claiming are being corroborated from other sources.

My preference is to go straight to those sources.

The "Cliff Notes" Version

Meanwhile, although the signal-to-noise ratio in the forums there has become tragically low, there is some excellent research being done by some FReepers who are aggressively following this story.

Here's a pretty good summary for those who are in a hurry. I'm not vouching for the conclusions, but the data presented matches what I've been seeing:

UPDATED "Cliff Notes" summary by LibertyRocks

Recommended reading for those who still get their news off TV or "mainstream" nationally-controlled news sites or have otherwise been kept unaware of the substance of this story.

Laz,

This is what I think. Just personal opinion, but here's what I've been able to formulate on this:

(the following comments are in response to this interview ...
if that link doesn't work go here and look for "Father of bomber speaks out on allegations" - it's a 29 minute interview by a father who is working his way to the radio and tv talk show circuit. He's talked to anybody and everybody who has tried to talk to him so far, and hasn't shown a bit of emotion yet.)

Daddy was a weird, disconnected callous parent who really didn't even know where his son lived (i.e. He states he lived in the Triangle Fraternity back in January when he saw his son for the first time in MONTHS AND MONTHS (for 30 minutes) on a pass through visit with the Triangle Fraternity brothers. The Triangle states he never lived there.), or how he was doing - doesn't even know for sure when his son, who he admits himself to be on the verge of genius, lost his National Merit Scholarship.

As a professed parent of a child who was fighting demons from the time he was in 8th grade (see the portion about the year he spent in the school "for bad kids"), he also admits that the communication between himself and his wandering dark soul of a son was limited because his son didn't call his parents and involve them in their lives. Well, had I not been to Colorado Springs several times in my life I would assume it was some backwater place where the phone system wasn't as up to snuff as the less than 2000 people town I live in - where the phone lines WORK BOTH DAMNED WAYS!

He has the audacity, in an interview that should be entirely centered on the loss soul that was his son, to lack any humility and instead blather parental advice to those of us WHO HAVEN'T HAD A SON BLOW THEMSELVES UP on how we can gage whether we had our heads so far up our backsides we didn't notice we had a child burgeoning into the U.S.'s first suicide bomber...he even takes a phone call in the middle of his "lesson" and then comes right back to it as if he was returning from a cut in a taping of an infommercial. He even breaks into a promotional - looking straight at the camera - on how parents should seriously consider becoming judges in debate tournaments - and never mentions a squat about how he felt his son did in the two years the son was a debater - an area where his son showed a very exceptional ability in articulation before audiences, when he himself admits his son was painfully not social. So much for accolades in a lost life.

But then I find this...

An opinion piece written by the cold-hearted father Joe Hinrichs, Jr. himself in response to the defense of Ward Churchill, a professor at CU who wrote a paper in which he applauded the 9/11 terrorists and condemned the victims of the 2001 attack.

No matter how acerbic you find Churchill's statements (which I personally do), you can't help but note that the Letter to the Editor submitted by Joe Hinrichs, Jr. - the father of exploding boy - shows about 1000% times more emotion than any he's shown since his youngest son blew himself in half 14 hours from him:

Double standard rules speech at Boulder campus

University of Colorado faculty members are defending Ward Churchill’s right to free speech (“Colleagues defend beleaguered CU prof,” Metro, Feb. 2). Evidently they wish to ignore the difference between his right to say whatever he wants (a useful starting definition of free speech) and his entitlement to a professional position of trust.

Let someone with a visible position in business or government make a statement one-tenth as laughably jejune, hackneyed, insular, provincial and downright stupid, and the giant sucking sound that follows is the poor devil’s job/career imploding.

Yet at the university, where we send our brightest minds to learn critical thinking skills, we see a double standard predicated on confusing the freedom offered to all with a contrived immunity actively denied to every other occupation. Does tenure rightly need to protect provocative speech? Of course it does. Does academia need, therefore, to be “Caesar’s wife,” vigilant and above suspicion when it polices its own ranks? Again, yes. That’s not Calpurnia we see up there, rearranging her smock and daring us to take note.

Was it that long ago that CU’s football coach was made to sit in the corner and suffer a major time-out, dunce cap glued to his head, for making one off-the-cuff, unguarded remark about a rape victim’s poor performance as a kicker? Ah, but that’s different. Football is commercial speech, rather than ideological idiocy; in Boulder one is profane, the other sacred.

Joe Hinrichs

Colorado Springs

gazette.com...

As you can detect in the father's "speech", as well as in researching various news reports that make statements concerning the family, Joel the III apparently didn't live up to the bar that his two older brothers set. I think this "father" couldn't handle a child that didn't "turn out well" all on his own; and now the "father", with his gift of articulation, is trying to paint his own child's life in a manner that leaves him (the "father") looking like a saint working aginst all odds. This "problem child" was dismissed most likely early in life, with little attention from his father....accept for an occasional defense to make sure his (the father's) name didn't look bad.

What better way to get dad's attention than to mark yourself as the first American suicide bomber with potentially Islamic ties?

This I find extremely interesting....and not a train of thought that can be easily dismissed.





[edit on 10-7-2005 by Valhall]

newsok.com.../main

He didn't try to get in. ??

Roper

Weighing The Evidence

Originally posted by Roper
He didn't try to get in. ??

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.

The FBI says that it didn't see Hinrichs try to enter the stadium when it reviewed the surveillance tapes.

Does that mean he didn't try to enter? No. It means only that the FBI was unable to find evidence of an entry attempt on the surveillance tapes.

Meanwhile, Adam Smith's claim that a security guard told him a "guy" ran away when security asked to search his backpack is just that: a claim.

I have seen nothing proving either. More information is needed.

A related question -- and an important one -- is whether Joel Hinrichs had a ticket to that night's game.

That should be easy to determine, and the answer to that question will provide an important clue regarding Joel Hinrich's intentions that night.