French prepared to pay people for having kids

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin is expected to announce on Thursday new incentives, including a boost in the monthly stipend for parents who take unpaid leave to care for a third child from the current $622 to between $850 and $1,215.

France isn't alone in worrying about the need to encourage births. Across Europe, juggling parenthood and modern life has led many couples to hold down family size, resulting in a decline in fertility rates that some fear could lead to economic decline.

In the 25-nation European Union, the average fertility rate has sunk below 2.07 children per woman - the minimum needed to prevent a drop in population without immigration.

Link

I have two problems with this. First of all, this is socialist government at it's finest. You can't afford to do it your self, so we'll (read everyone else in the country) pay for you to do it.

Secondly, Humans are at a point where we should be leveling off our increase in population. France and Paris particularly is overcrowded from what I have seen.

On the otherside, I do understand the need to keep a good economy up and also a fear of having immigrants take over your nation.

Overall though, I think they need to find a better way to increase population sizes.

What would you suggest?

This is a silly idea from the French government, if people want three kids they will have them, the damn things are so expensive that an extra grand isnt really going to make a difference.

This is an attempt to stem the demographic tide that shows that Muslims will soon be a massive force in France because they breed faster than everyone else.

The best way to deal with this would be to educate the muslim population to the point where they want the same lives as everyone else in France, leading to lower birthrates.

Maybe France should make a deal with China. They had some silly limit on kids not too long ago, didn't they?

I think the problem in France besides low birth rate is the ratio of young people in total population, which is low in there. and this is the case in most of europe as far as I know. its not all about choices of individuals.

thats also one of the reasons why most europen nations encourage thousands of immigrants yearly, besides cheap worker needs.

it appears to you that the muslims are multiplying, because they are muslims, nope the reality is the uneducated people multiply their numbers. and most muslim societies are left uneducated in darkness. the decline of birth rate is proportional with education. maybe european people just need to be uneducated some joking.

alo the availiblity of natural resources in rural areas is a factor, you can maintain or support 12 children if you have a farm and fields of grain, packs of sheep, and hives of bee. not like trying to maintain 12 children from supermarkets, schools, equipment which is impossible.

I also dont like the muliplying muslims and christians I would prefer multiplying atheists, so the the tactics of religion exploiting policies of the both western and eastern nations would be welcomed with a wicked grin.

I've got a question as a European, why do Americans hate socialism so much?

The populations of France and Germany are declining every year, while the immigrant populations continue to grow every year. I see this a an effective way to entice French and germans into having more children.

I am married to a German, and have 3 children. While living in Germany, we were recieving Kindergeld, about $250 per month, per child. This lasts until the kids turn 18. It was a welcomed benefit, beleive me.

Originally posted by TPL
I've got a question as a European, why do Americans hate socialism so much?

If the government pays somebody $1,000 that means they collected both the money they sent and the money to pay somebody to do the work of mailing the check. They probably collected $1,100 to pay out $1,000. Not only is it generally wasteful, they get the money from taxes. So if you lower the tax you have the $1,100 out there helping your economy rather than just $1,000 doing the same thing.

On top of that, taxing people too much decreases the motivation to achieve as much. If I can sit aroung doing little or nothing, or go to a university and work my butt off but the end result after taxes is nearly the same lifestyle, what is the point?

People achieve more in a system that rewards achievement, socialism rewards laziness by its very nature and puts somebody else (the government) in charge of your money making them the people who really are running your life.

I think it's crazy to pay people for having children, on the one hand it can help out people who need it, but there are going to be irresponsible people who shouldn't be getting a reward but do. And this is coming from a single mother who doesn't recieve child support or any other aid, so I don't want to hear that I don't understand.

Originally posted by TPL
I've got a question as a European, why do Americans hate socialism so much?

I'm an American. I don't hate socialism. I just think it's a joke on paper and a failure as a social experiment.

What makes you think that France is truley Socialist?

And id sooner live in France with good, cheap healthcare, good education and low crime rather than the gun ridden mess that is the USA.

Im willing to bet that in no French city people would be totally unable to leave in the face of a natural disaster.

On topic again, France is a fairly rascist nation, and a big part of this policy is to try and kep France white.

Originally posted by blanketgirl
If the government pays somebody $1,000 that means they collected both the money they sent and the money to pay somebody to do the work...

...they get the money from taxes.

you sound like th expenditure to tax income ratio is 1:1.

the goverments are like corporations, they dont live just from the taxes Im sure you will agree. they also invest and profit. you believe when gov pays another member of your society, it is being taken from your pocket, which is not logical. in the other hand if the gov didnt pay that amount to the member of your society then I believe it would be wasted since it would be left in the profit pool and turned to gold and be stored somewhere.

your tax money multiplies in the investments and believe me Im 99% sure that your gov can cut the taxes completely which is taken from people except corps and everything would be as good as it is.

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
a big part of this policy is to try and kep France white.

so they do not pay if the immigrants or non-whites have a child, right?

because its generally the immigrants who are in financial problem and it will be more appealing to them than the french-whites. if what you say is true it will recoil bad.

Pay people to have kids? Whatever reason might they have for that? Why, they could simply institute a religious state and people would have them for free...

No, they're definitely afraid that if they do not do something to encourage breeding amongst the native populous, then the immigrant population will eventually become the majority politically. This is going to happen anyway, regardless of what incentive they provide the natives to procreate.

In due time, the Muslim population will greatly outnumber the native born population in most European nations, and as such, the governments of said nations will eventually be controlled by them.

As it states in the Q'uran, the definition of Muslim holy land is any land upon which Muslims reside. It is no accident that such a large influx to Europe of Muslims has occured in the last 30 years. It is an idealogical buildup; very similar to a military buildup, except that the assimilation of the conquered into the fold occurs as a precursor to attack, and in effect, IS the attack.

There are many definitions of Jihad, but it is just another word for conquest. Conquest of self, conquest of your enemy, what have you. As with any war, the ultimate victory condition is conquest and dominance of the perceived enemy, and there are myriad ways to achieve this end.

If you ask me, terrorism is simply a delay/deter tactic. It really is just an aside to the central strategy, which is assimilation of political influence. No great number of casualties will be caused the enemy by these inane terrorist attacks, but it will serve to distract the enemy and cause them to react by pouring money best saved into the 'problem', as well as squander the invaluable human resources that we are currently.

To encourage breeding is to delay the inevitable. To prevent the inevitable, if that truly is desirable, war must be waged on a large scale, unfortunately. This is not going to happen. The French, nor the Germans, nor any other member of the EU have the will or the firepower to succeed militarily, therefore, the EU will eventually become a Muslim state.

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
What makes you think that France is truley Socialist?

And id sooner live in France with good, cheap healthcare, good education and low crime rather than the gun ridden mess that is the USA.

Im willing to bet that in no French city people would be totally unable to leave in the face of a natural disaster.

On topic again, France is a fairly rascist nation, and a big part of this policy is to try and kep France white.

And you know Joe, we would rather have you live in France than in the USA. There, it is agreed upon, Joe will live in France and get paid to help make babies, and the rest of us here in the USA will stay here, happily knowing Joe is not here!

[edit on 3-10-2005 by 12 12 2012]

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
What makes you think that France is truley Socialist?

And id sooner live in France with good, cheap healthcare, good education and low crime rather than the gun ridden mess that is the USA.

Im willing to bet that in no French city people would be totally unable to leave in the face of a natural disaster.

On topic again, France is a fairly rascist nation, and a big part of this policy is to try and kep France white.

If things are so wonderful in France, then why is the economy in shambles and the people have to be paid to have babies?

And you folks sure do a great job in the face of natural disasters:

An estimated 11,435 people died in France's heatwave in the first half of August, according to the country's Health Ministry.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Hard, hard decisions, eh?

France is requesting aid from the European Union to deal with the effects of the heatwave, and the government is considering scrapping a public holiday to finance extra health care.

Not that there's anything wrong with asking for help when you need it... it just makes one wonder why you can't handle things yourself.

C'mon, Joe, whose leg are you pulling?

I thought that most french were part American anyway because of the fact that the women in WW2 liked Americans better than Frenchmen and most of the babies born then were from American fathers. Maybe we should liberate France again and help them with their lack of breeding.

factfinder38

It goes back even farther than that, you might want to study the time period Benjamin Franklin was in France and the many ladies he was courting at that time.

Originally posted by TPL
I've got a question as a European, why do Americans hate socialism so much?

Because they need some boogeyman to point at whenever they attack a European country. Just look at the replies whenever someone mentions problems occuring in Europe. Within one or two posts, there will be someone blaming it on socialism. Oh if only the world were so simple...

The whole thing actually stems from lingering Cold War fears of communism. Many incorrectly associate socialism with communism and therefore some atavistic hatred is triggered in their minds when the subject is brought up. If you'd look back 4 years ago you'd see much less criticism of European socialism. The European opposition to the Iraq war has raised tentions and many Americans choose to respond by criticising the European system of government.

[edit on 10/3/2005 by Flinx]

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
What makes you think that France is truley Socialist?

And id sooner live in France with good, cheap healthcare, good education and low crime rather than the gun ridden mess that is the USA.

Im willing to bet that in no French city people would be totally unable to leave in the face of a natural disaster.

On topic again, France is a fairly rascist nation, and a big part of this policy is to try and kep France white.

Ignorance abounds!

France has a HIGHER crime rate then "tje gun ridden mess that is the USA" according to Interpols 2001 numbers...in fact, they have nearly TWICE the crime rate of the US.

And as for education. Tell me, name a nation with better Universaties then the US. We have Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, Penn, MIT, CIT, etc etc etc.

In fact, the US has the best higher education system in the world, and it's not even close.

As for France, they are not pure socialist, but are heading in that direction.

I believe in a capitolist society because it has given my family the opertunity to go from an orphan and poor immigrants to my current generation, all of whom are in very good schools/have good jobs.

The US is the land of opertunity for a reason.

Why must these threads always end up in a USA vs Europe fight???

Have you people not learned your lesson yet?

I will close this thread if this keeps up.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

And as for education. Tell me, name a nation with better Universaties then the US. We have Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, Penn, MIT, CIT, etc etc etc.

In fact, the US has the best higher education system in the world, and it's not even close.

My time spent at a University (even though it was only USF), showed that most of the instructors were foreign. So...you're saying that we have the highest schools, but they are taught by the highest educated foreignors (regardless of where they graduated from)? Just because we have a building, doesn't mean that we maintain the genius level there. I saw more Indians, and Pakistanians(?) at USF than white people (in the engineering part anyways). I hate it how names are thrown around (being said they are the best), when they have no real bearing on being American. I could hardly understand my instructors accents.

Of course, I'm assuming it's the same at Yale, Harvard, etc...but I didn't go there, so I can't state it as fact. Just a small self-realized statistic.

As per the thread topic. What's wrong with paying people to have kids? If the economy prevents them from having to raise them, and hardly an financial help, then that country will not have a sufficient nuber of people to employ in the next generations. It's a helpful incentive, IMHO.

And for the 11,000+ deaths caused by the Heat wave...is that what happens when a civilisation is hit with an uncanny and very odd weather pattern caused by Global Warming?