Here is my understanding, now let’s get down to business:

Originally posted by realrepublican
but they certainly had a culture.

How so? They don't seemed to have had any culture that was distinct from that of the catholics who lived around them at the time. True enough, their theology was different.

Cathari came from the word (in Greek) katharos, meaning "pure".

Yes, but why does this connect them to a jewish sect that existed nearly 1100 years before they existed? I don't think that the essenes were dualists either, which is what the cathars proper were.

Catharism was in fact and still is, a form of early Christianity!

THe problem with this idea is that dualism in christianity postdates monotheism, the dualist groups come up later than the 'mainstream' groups and in more remote locations (like egypt). Also, the early christian community, including the people who were students of students of the apostles themselves, weren't dualists, so far that I've ever heard. There's a reason why dualists like the cathars were called manicheans, because they were thought to be a fusion of pre-christian and eastern ideas on dualism and christianity.

The Cathari were of many different backgrounds. They lived in Spain, Italy, France, Bulgaria, Albania, etc.

I don't think that they were in bulgaria nor albania, but I might be wrong about this. From what i understand, they were more or less restricted to southern france and northern italy.

The Cathari, just as the Essenes, abandoned the false teaching that God was a vengeful God as portrayed in the Old Testament.

? They beleived in the sacrifice of jesus on the cross as destroying sin, and their bible included the old testament. I've not seen anything that said that the god of the old testament was meaningless. Also, the cathars, like most dualists, beleived that there were two super gods, one that is beyond everything, and one that created the world, who is more or less the 'bad guy'.

They believed in Reincarnation, as do the early Essene Christians.

Where is the evidence for this? I am not very familiar with the essenes, but where is this said, and the cathars, I don't recall them having reincarnation as part of their worship. Keep in mind that lots of the peopel normally thought of as Cathar or albingensian were never refered to as such in their own time. The Cathars are a very specific group.

Pope Innocent III decided in the name of the church, that all Cathari should be burned at the stake for heresy.

When did he do this? He went to war with the leaders of the cathar heresy and their political supporters, but in what papal bull did he state this?

Over one million Cathari

Where are you getting this figure from?

In the highest levels of reality there cannot be more than one Absolute Being God.

Not according to the cathars and other dualists.

The Cathari were dualistic but they never accepted that matter or the material world as "evil" as many Gnostics.

? They even went so far as to suggest that people not have children, as this is just a way of trapping souls in crude and low matter.

Sun worship was spread throughout the world before 100 BC. It died down around 100 BC, due in part to the Roman influence and that of Christianity.

Yes but you were suggesting that the human sacrifice religion had spread at this time.

Common sense pretty much shows that being reborn again has nothing to do with going into a coffin.

Death, rebirth, rebirth, death, its a cycle, dying into birth, being born into death. Coming out of a coffin would be a rather strong affirmation of being reborn.

S&B do not swear allegiance to Christ or to Buddha, or Brahma,

How would you know this??

At the Grove, the ritual that some say is to “Moloch”, is not correct. The Cremation of Care could be called "Moloch" over the Owl.

I'm not so sure about the BC ceremony, but I tend to agree that 'moloch' wasn't a god or idol, but rather that 'moloching' someone was sacrificing them to a god.

Horus is rising in the sky high above the pyramid; the eye of Horus is the all-seeing eye

THis is simply an interpretation. The All Seeing Eye is also seen as a symbol of god, not horus.

Horus' symbol is that of an Owl. [/quiote]
I'll agree that any bird might as well be Horus, but I wouldn't say that the Owl is 'strongly' his symbol, its merely a bird, and he's a Falcon, so we can say that in the transmission of ideas he might as well be an owl in other parts of the world, but its improper to say that Horsu's symbol is an Owl, its not, its a Falcon. Also, what makes the owl more a symbol of Horus than any other bird god who is not horus?

(its hidden on the 1 dollar bill)

There's actually some debate over this, and if you look at a close up of the detial it doesn't look quite so much like an owl and some have remarked that it looks like a spider, keeping in the theme of the 'webby' background.

How so? They don't seemed to have had any culture that was distinct from that of the catholics who lived around them at the time. True enough, their theology was different.

True! Christ was not a Jew - but an Essene. Yet, he adapted to the surrounding cultures - born in it. Many still say he was a Jew but he was not. Many of the Cathari were strict vegetarian and practiced fasting, while much of their culture developed around those undertakings, which may not have set them so far apart – as they did resemble the Catholics but that it not why the Church of Rome started the Inquisitions, I agree.

Yes, but why does this connect them to a jewish sect that existed nearly 1100 years before they existed? I don't think that the essenes were dualists either, which is what the cathars proper were.

St. Origen was an Essene and the Cathari were the descendants of the Essenes and did not accept every beliefs of the Gnostics - as the Gnostics were many. The Cathari were pure Essene Christians – in faith, more than culture. The Cathari were amongst those who opposed the reformations that the Roman influence was placing on the church.

THe problem with this idea is that dualism in christianity postdates monotheism, the dualist groups come up later than the 'mainstream' groups and in more remote locations (like egypt). Also, the early christian community, including the people who were students of students of the apostles themselves, weren't dualists, so far that I've ever heard. There's a reason why dualists like the cathars were called manicheans, because they were thought to be a fusion of pre-christian and eastern ideas on dualism and christianity.

The Cathari, like the earlier Gnostics were sort-of dualistic (as are the Essenes) but to the Catholics perspective they were seen as Manichean-like all. The Roman Church became so corrupt that they labeled all not under their authority as heretics! The Cathari were monotheistic but to many, it would appear dualistic. I did say dualistic a few times, for that I apologize, as they only appeared dualistic yet because they did not accept an evil God of the earth, or accept that the material world was inherently evil, like the Manicheans did and accpeted the One true God, they were Monotheistic. The Cathari called God “Allahim” and El-Shaddai”. Christ used to say this also.

? They beleived in the sacrifice of jesus on the cross as destroying sin, and their bible included the old testament. I've not seen anything that said that the god of the old testament was meaningless. Also, the cathars, like most dualists, beleived that there were two super gods, one that is beyond everything, and one that created the world, who is more or less the 'bad guy'.

The God of Moses “Jehovah” is the same God but the Israelites who were the Jewish peoples were under the rule of Rome and the Sanhedrin. But the Essenes believed in “Jehovah” or the El-Shaddai and never accepted a cruel and vengeful God. Moses never brought a cruel God to the Jews. He brought a loving God and they misunderstood! They wrote laws for man – instead of allowing God to inscribe them directly into their hearts. Once again, the Cathari were not the kind of Dualist the Church of Rome considered them to be. The Church of Rome considered the Essenes as heretics to also be burned at the stake.

Remember that around 320-330 AD, it was first the Roman Emperor Constantine who knew that he could not destroy Christianity – thus he decided to embrace it to merge it as an official “Roman version” of Christianity. , The doctrine of reincarnation was all but removed from official Roman-Christianity by 600 AD. But many Christens still secretly upheld those beliefs. Who do think the Cathari were other than those who upheld the earliest forms of Christianity, until their deaths.

Where is the evidence for this? I am not very familiar with the essenes, but where is this said, and the cathars, I don't recall them having reincarnation as part of their worship. Keep in mind that lots of the peopel normally thought of as Cathar or albingensian were never refered to as such in their own time. The Cathars are a very specific group.

Some of the early fathers of the church removed reincarnation in the Bible. There is a huge amount of evidence to supporting this. The church later added the notion of an eternal hell to keep control over the people. This was never accepted by the earliest of Christian scholars either. The Dead Sea Scrolls also verify the Essenes belief in re-incarnation.

When did he do this? He went to war with the leaders of the cathar heresy and their political supporters, but in what papal bull did he state this?

The Inquisition against the Cathari alone went on for over 50 years of the 13th century! Pope Innocent III was a raving mad-man who was considered the anti-Christ by many at the time, who knew very well how corrupt the Church of Rome had become. There were many crusades. Now here’s an interesting truth: If you want to know at what stage the early church changed the meaning of “Satan” from “deceiver” (which derives from the Egyptian Ha-Satan) to an evil devil, it was just after Pope Innocent III finished waging his war against what he called “heretics”.

: Over one million Cathari

Where are you getting this figure from?

Sorry to say – not from any regular book source – they do not grant justice to this level of genocide. If you want to really know where, send me a PM, and I will tell you but if can dig around and see just how nasty Pope Innocent III really was!

Not according to the cathars and other dualists.

The trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are also present in the Hindu faith and are Manifestations but all One God. The Cathari believed in the Absolute Creator but they also recognized the Earth as being a material creation of Archangels. They did not accept that the material world is evil.

They even went so far as to suggest that people not have children, as this is just a way of trapping souls in crude and low matter.

They believed in the holiest of teachings. They believed that sex was to become a partner or a co-creator with God. They practiced that sex was not love and believed that to give in to these early passions – was to fall deeper into it. They saw matter as something wonderful (to taste, touch – all things Holy) they taught that balance was key. Not to be too of this world and not too far removed either. If you call that dualistic then that’s ok but most Muslims and Christians also have a bizarre belief that this world is Satan’s! The Cathari never accepted this belief.

Death, rebirth, rebirth, death, its a cycle, dying into birth, being born into death. Coming out of a coffin would be a rather strong affirmation of being reborn.

As for Skull and Bones: They are being reborn – but into what exactly? Again common sense shows from various insiders, books and research into the roots of the cult how these people are obsessed with death and suffering and not teaching “love” and self-humility through service to their fellow man. These are true Manicheans and believe its ok to overindulge in earthly passions. It is a wonderful attractive and orgasmic experience for them to practice what they also have faith in!

: Horus is rising in the sky high above the pyramid; the eye of Horus is the all-seeing eye.

THis is simply an interpretation. The All Seeing Eye is also seen as a symbol of god, not horus.

Horus is a very powerful God! Man worshipping him for all these years has granted him much strength to serve those followers well.

I'll agree that any bird might as well be Horus, but I wouldn't say that the Owl is 'strongly' his symbol, its merely a bird, and he's a Falcon, so we can say that in the transmission of ideas he might as well be an owl in other parts of the world, but its improper to say that Horus’s symbol is an Owl, its not, its a Falcon. Also, what makes the owl more a symbol of Horus than any other bird god who is not horus?

I have considered that also, for either the Owl is a falcon, or they worship the Greek Goddess of War, Minerva. And since we have the Roman scales of Justice to top it all off, it’s still not of a Christian nation's faith or practice. Our leaders must be sticking their noses up at us for assuming they share are concerns and beliefs.

: (its hidden on the 1 dollar bill)

There's actually some debate over this, and if you look at a close up of the detial it doesn't look quite so much like an owl and some have remarked that it looks like a spider, keeping in the theme of the 'webby' background.

No debate unless someone also tells me that the “Eye of Horus” shown above the pyramid, is a smudge. Besides, that spider isn’t even sitting on his web!




[edit on 2-10-2005 by realrepublican]

Would you forgive a question from an observer?

I have read this sort of material from quite a few sources. The details vary by researcher, but the themes are generally about the same. My question is:

Why is this significant?

Let's say everything you suggest is more or less accurate. It all sounds like, at best, "interesting history" to me.

>Our leaders do not believe in the teachings of Buddha
>or the Prince of Peace (Jesus).

Ok. But do you really have to look any farther than your nose to realize this?

>They follow a practice that goes back some 3000 years
>and we ALL have a very serious issue to deal with.

But don't we have serious issues to deal with regardless of whether they're psycopaths perpetuating a several millenia old Egyptian religion in disguise, or psycopaths who geuinely believe they're pursuing an only slightly more modern religion? Isn't the important part for us to deal with that they're psycopaths?

I could go on.

Again, my question is basically: why does any of this matter?

Hi LordBucket,

I agree with you that nothing that I or anyone else has written matters, when good people stand by and do nothing without looking first looking at the fruits our leaders bare. Even if they were to be partaking of the Christian faith, they still do not act anything like Saint’s. But sometimes unless you actually can show people that those in power are not "Christian followers", or imposters so-to-speak “wolves in sheep clothing”, people will not care when they go around spreading tyranny.

The false comforter tries to trick us into accepting them. But to bring us a lasting comfort, is the work of the Holy Spirit. Anyone that brings us trouble, anxiety, doubt, confusion, negativity and a host of other ill effects in his wake is a false Christ and we certainly have many of those people today.

Cicada;

I am sure that Hall's Mother was a maiden Palmer, and she seemed to be a most liberated woman.I will try to research her more, as the PRS sends information to it's members about personal matters.
Having noticed I make short answers, but Occam'a razor[kiss] keep it simple, is the way my life has turned out to be..I enjoy verbosity, but it is not for me...
Glad you have decided to get into Cayce .About 25 yars ago, I was looking in a newsparer and found an ad for occult books for sale.
My ex, who is not a believer, we got there fast due to my driving..I needed help with the loading or else I would have gone alone..
When we arrived, the wife told us she wanted all this devil stuff out of her house.Her husband had been dead about a week.
I had many Cayce paperbacks before the sale, BUT in the collection there were many original type-written folders af all his work spelling errors and all from Virginia Beach.
I tried to contain my excitement, as it was metaphysical heaven..
So, I asked the wife what she wanted for this manna, she said 'make me an offer' I got all the precious books and there were many more teachers besides him, but the Cayce find was awesome for 20 dollars.
Also another tidbit of information, Cayce was born on the same day as Hall-March 18th..
I am grateful to RR for giving us a good place to share...

[edit on 2-10-2005 by siriuslyone]

[edit on 2-10-2005 by siriuslyone]

I had many Cayce paperbacks before the sale, BUT in the collection there were many original type-written folders af all his work spelling errors and all from Virginia Beach.
I tried to contain my excitement, as it was metaphysical heaven..
So, I asked the wife what she wanted for this manna, she said 'make me an offer' I got all the precious books and there were many more teachers besides him, but the Cayce find was awesome for 20 dollars.
Also another tidbit of information, Cayce was born on the same day as Hall-March 18th..
I am grateful to RR for giving us a good place to share..

Siriuslyone, what a treasure to have found original manuscripts amongst many of the books and other writings; incredible!

And from the link you provided: Manly had this to say:

“Mr Bragdon,” answered Mr. Hall quickly, unhesitatingly, and with a simultaneous flash of smile in his eyes and on his lips, “you are an occult philosopher. You know that it is easier to know things than to know how one knows those things.”

Now one should ponder the significance of what he was saying. Mr. Hall was nothing less than an enlightened soul and just as Beethoven knew how to manifest such incredible music, he could not explain how he did it (when people asked) – but he simply did it.

Originally posted by realrepublican

I had many Cayce paperbacks before the sale, BUT in the collection there were many original type-written folders af all his work spelling errors and all from Virginia Beach.
I tried to contain my excitement, as it was metaphysical heaven..
So, I asked the wife what she wanted for this manna, she said 'make me an offer' I got all the precious books and there were many more teachers besides him, but the Cayce find was awesome for 20 dollars.
Also another tidbit of information, Cayce was born on the same day as Hall-March 18th..
I am grateful to RR for giving us a good place to share..

Siriuslyone, what a treasure to have found original manuscripts amongst many of the books and other writings; incredible!

And from the link you provided: Manly had this to say:

“Mr Bragdon,” answered Mr. Hall quickly, unhesitatingly, and with a simultaneous flash of smile in his eyes and on his lips, “you are an occult philosopher. You know that it is easier to know things than to know how one knows those things.”

Now one should ponder the significance of what he was saying. Mr. Hall was nothing less than an enlightened soul and just as Beethoven knew how to manifest such incredible music, he could not explain how he did it (when people asked) – but he simply did it.

Yes, it was just my time to be in that place.In my will, I am giving all my vast collections to various groups so that real seekers can have it open to them.
Do not know if you are a blues fan, but Hall reminds me of the great Robert Johnson who was told by all the greats he would NEVER be a blues player, he disappeared for about 3 months in Mississippi and could play LIKE no other when he came back..
He was asked if he went to the Miss. Crossroads to sell his soul, but he would never answer...
When Bob Dylan was asked how how did that he did, he said it was a contract he had with all in charge before he was born...closest to him ever admitting he is a TRUE master..
You either got it or not..

The Akashic Records (Akasha is a Sanskrit word meaning "sky", "space" or "aether") are said to be a collection of mystical knowledge that is stored in the aether; i.e. on a non-physical plane of existence.
Wikipedia Encyclopedia.

Went to review some of those transcripts, and was reminded of what I am 'supposed' to teach, as per my life reviews.
Having been clinically dead thrice one is traveling through the tunnel toward the unconditional Love Light you are being shown what you have done to help or harm other humans.
They do not care what your name is. what car you drive, nor how much money you accumulated..IOW you are the person you did harm or good to and you have the feelings they had when you interacted with them, so if you have hurt people on purpose, it is NOT a good feeling.

IMO,Cayce died so young because it takes so much out of a body to be in trance so long and to the degree he did accessing the records.
All of all of us is recorded down to the last molecule of DNA..I often think of DNA as a bar code where you are scanned?
If you cannot take it with you, as there are no u-hauls allowed in the Light, remember karma is a harsh mistress...blessings...

Originally posted by LordBucket
Why is this significant?

Let's say everything you suggest is more or less accurate. It all sounds like, at best, "interesting history" to me.

Very Intersting? Its a changing of the entire understanding of religion, virtue, history, and, well, everything. Thats more than merely interesting. I disagree that the historyoutlined here is correct, but if it were, it'd be more than merely interesting no?

Ok. But do you really have to look any farther than your nose to realize this?

I told you it would be long...

As far as I know the existence of the Indo-European chain of linguistics is accepted by mainstream academic study. It goes without reason that when language is transmitted over time and geography that folklore, mythologies, idioms, customs, et al get transmitted as well, and to a large degree distorted. Despite this distortion careful study reveals the underlying universality of certain key symbols and elements. The IE group extends from India, through the middle east, to the whole of Europe, as far north as Russia and Scandinavia and as far west as Ireland (farther still to Iceland). Of course India was also the major breeding ground for Oriental theologies as well. It shouldn't in any way be surprising that there are concepts of reincarnation underlying any IE religion if you're looking at it with the proper cultural perspective.

realrepublican,

Ok, so I see how the Amon-Ra cult was the dominant mystery religion, that they worshipped the literal sun and that they practiced human sacrifice. Could you elaborate on the last part and how it relates to the events of today? The followers of Aton were a "competing" cult and their belief centered on the veneration of a spiritual sun. Akhenaton directed the Amon-Ra worship to Aton worship. His reign is certainly characterized by a period of enlightenment observable by the high quality of naturalization in the art. There's a reason why the bust of Nephretiti is considered to be one of the most sublime expressions of physical beauty in the ancient world. Akhenaton was assassinated and mischaracterized for this. I was once taught that Akhenaton might have been a hydrocephalic and that his condition was responsible for his "sun worship". Is that a part of a continuing propaganda?

El/Set/Isis/Osiris/Horus worship subsumed the Amon-Ra cult and a pantheon of deities replaced a strict monotheism. What was behind this happening? Was it a political/territorial issue? It's interesting to note that the Cabbalistic sefirot Tephiroth is usually attributed to the sun but can also be used to represent Saturn. El is the father of Set. Usually you hear about Set, Osiris and Isis all being children of Ra. In the pantheistic version of the cult was Saturn/El referred to as Ra?

There was some consternation about the Horus/owl connection but I think some comparative mythology can shed at least some light. Horus is being referred to as the All Seeing Eye and there's mention that he lost an eye, which makes one think of the Odinic mysteries. Odin was a wisdom god, associable with Hermes/Mercury/Thoth, but comparative mythology often doesn't separate easily into distinct characteristics for each character. A symbol of Odin's omniscient nature are his crows Hugnin and Mugnin. These compare to the owl of Pallas Athena, another wisdom deity. Athena, who emerged fully-grown from Zeus' head, has an origin similar to some Gnostic concepts of the birth of Christ.

A huge cultural influence has been felt from Saturn/Set worship. This is certainly observable. Saturn and his sickle show up as the grim reaper, father time, even the number seven. Darth Vader, dark lord of the Sith is almost too obvious to mention. We should all know what Saturn did to his father Uranus, and what Zeus did to Saturn. Some have associated the castration of Uranus as an allegory describing the tilt of the Earth's axis. Uranus was worshiped as son and husband of Gaea. The mothers in these myths are always in with the sons against the fathers. Where does the worship of the Feminine Principle lie in your view?

You mentioned the Goddess Columbia whom I take as being a national sovereignty symbol like Britannia. IE myths are full of fairy tales and allegories symbolizing the nation or culture as a maiden character whom possession of confers rulership. There's a reason why Guinevere’s infidelity was so consequential to Arthur's kingdom. With her torch, I can also see Ceres underlying Columbia, the fertility of the land being key to a given territory's success and all. Of course there's the whole Columbus-Holy Spirit-Mary Mother of God-Columbine association chain. You also referred to the Goddess of Dionysus. Could you elaborate on that? The Christ/Bacchus/Adonis/Tamuz/Attis/Orpheus/Blader/Mithras character frequently has an androgynous or hermaphroditic nature or like Mithras, a male and a female aspect. Or is it a reference to a goddess associated with Dionysus, like Hestia who gave him her seat in Olympus as one of the Twelve. I've seen references to him as the son of Persephone/Proserpine, moon goddess of the underworld. Athena also plays an important role in Dionysus' resurrection. I can see multiple ways in which both Athena and Ceres identify with Columbia and Dionysus. Could you elaborate?

You mentioned that the modern day Catholic Church doesn't partake in sacrifices. I've often wondered what the modern day church does and doesn't know about their own religion. During the last days of Pope John Paul II, I was frequently struck by an image hanging on the walls of his apartments shown in the background during papal statements. It was the image of Christ in Last Judgment as described in Revelations, in an almond shaped nimbus, right hand raised in benediction, surrounded by the four symbols representing the four evangelists, an eagle, a man, lion and bull, all of them winged. The image is strikingly similar to the Waite-Rider image of Major Arcana card XXI, The World, which has a torch bearing goddess figure in place of Christ. The world she represents comes right after Last Judgment. I've seen it convincingly demonstrated that the image, also seen on the tympanum on the porch of St. Trophime in Arles (southern France), symbolizes the zodiac in a particular position, with the eagle an alternate symbol for Scorpio. Every time I saw the image on CNN I wondered why I was seeing it.

I'm not too familiar with Theosophy but I know they use the term Great White Brotherhood. I've also seen it used in the manner that you do, as a chain of enlightened initiates appearing throughout history to guide mankind's progress. No matter how you look at it this is a concept rooted in the Orient, like the Eight Immortals or the Nine Unknown. What do you feel is the status of this group? Are they dead, missing or in hiding or are they still active?

You mentioned the Knights Templar and the Hashishim. According to some the two groups went through phases of antagonism as well as fellowship with one another and were mutually influential. The KT relate to the Priory of Sion, who may have emerged from Pope Sylvester's Chroniclers. Some call Sylvester the Hermetic Pope. Although some will argue the point till they're blue in the face the KT-Scots Guard-Speculative Freemason line is pretty observable. How do these various groups come into this and what role do they play?

Amilius is a name from the Romulus and Remus legend (divine twins always seem significant) in a villainous role. I also see that it is a concept representing the expression of logos, a divine force that manifests to redirect human spiritual evolution that has expressed itself in Adam and others including Thoth and Christ. Is this connected to the concept of the Great White Brotherhood? I'd also like to hear more about Thoth's flying craft and the historical Thoth as compared to the deified, Ibis-headed Thoth who relates to Hermes. The historic Thoth is Hermes Trismegistus, the central figure of Hermetecism.

The Nephilim myths are always compelling. I see the Annukai are a reptilian race of Sumerian/Phoenician origin. Could you elaborate on this part and how it relates to the rest of what you've presented?

I agree that there is much disinformation in conspiracy theory. The ufo/alien connection seems a highly effective tool to discredit the field. The faked Roswell, and Tesla theories are familiar to me and compelling. Would you feel at liberty to discuss at greater detail how modern day conspiracies relate to the matter you're talking about? I realize that there will probably be much flak from some members on this but I for one would be interested in seeing at least some associations. There is much of modern history that isn't what it was presented to be, I think. The history of “law and order” events being staged on an unwitting populace is almost as old as society itself. One recent event that always sat funny with me but doesn't get much mention was the D.C. sniper case with its high paranoia level, odd coincidences, strange synchronicities, Tarot imagery and its ultimately improbable sounding explanation. How do incidents discussed in the conspiracy theory community relate to the concept of sacrifice?
You also mentioned earth changes which I think many do see but want to pretend are par for the course. What do you see as being at play in these earth changes? How does it relate to the precession of the equinox and the shift to Aquarius? You mentioned zodiacal imagery in pop-culture. I'd love to hear examples and share if I'm able. You mentioned the zodiacal clock. What sign is in the one o'clock position, Ares? Pisces?

realrepublican, you are obviously well read. I wondered if you are familiar with the work of linguist Harold Bayley, much of who’s work is available for free online. I've only so far read "The Lost Language of Symbolism" volume II (which I came upon accidentally). Bayley traces the key components of language down to their root meanings, pan-globally. He argues the existence of an ur-culture based upon his observations of languages, folktales, mythologies, idioms, etc. His work is quite revelatory. One of his most striking examples is with the word illumine, which he breaks into El Hu mon, the Sole Lord Hu, the illuminator. L or El is always God or Power, the Semitic El. Hu is a variation of Lugh, the chief and solar Celt god. M is complex but likely related to Mother. On is one, making Mon the one manifested, basically. I've had trouble researching Bayley; information on him doesn't seem to be readily apparent. The book "Hamlet's Mill" by Giorgio De Santillana and Hertha Von Dechend is a treasure trove of comparative mythology related to allegories concerning astronomy and the precession of the equinox. Are you familiar with the Fulcanelli legends and his "Mysteries of the Cathedrals" which argued that the Gothic Cathedrals were alchemical texts in stone created by hermetic operative mason guilds?

Cicada,

These are the questions of a true introspective personality - I am a fellow Virgo. Linguist Harold Bayley, I do not remember reading any of his work. An interesting perspective on the word “Illumine”, as we in fact derive many words from this meaning of early enlightenment. The word for a graduate of school, or “Alumni” is but one. You also become an El-der. We get to El-ect our leaders, who get EL-ected etc. You mentioned the Gothic Cathedrals – may they have been inspired by those Masons who also built the floor for Sinclair’s Castle from Solomon plans? Regarding my initial post of Amon-Ra and its connection to today’s events; I never expected it to catch this much attention. I try to connect the cultural/religious influence and the level of conscious application. Let’s consider a typical word of a place like Israel. If we take the word IS-RA-EL and separate it we can see the application of 3 words or Gods:

ISRAEL or (Isis-Ra-EL)

The word derives directly from Egyptian culture which is of course no surprises being that the early Israelites were also Egyptians. Now we do have many Egyptian words today so the word ISRAEL in no way suggests they are of all Egyptian belief. However, this state of Israel was carved politically into the land of Palestine causing much upset and unrest not too long ago. But is this only political and what purpose was Israel facilitating to a modern day Jew and why do Jews need a land of Israel to live in? Could Israel represent the New Babylonian Empire as expected by many? In the Bible, Mathew 28:18-20 mentions that Israel was a spiritual message of God to come, so-to-speak. Could this creation of an Israel state further support the presence of an ancient Babylonian and Leviticus Priesthood Belief? Are they trying to resurrect the Empire of the Cruel God who might rule on a thrown of gold and power or is this simple political?
The Anglo-Saxons were the creators of the English language. They created it from primarily German having Latin, Danish and some French influence. These Anglo-Saxons were not calling themselves Jews, (Jews were always persecuted) yet there is evidence to support hat they supported the practices of the Babylonian Talmud. Later, the Normans used Pythagorean mathematics (derived from the time of Solomon’s temple) to reverse engineer the current English language and create an early English dialect.

Although Manly P. Hall may disagree with my own assessment, I believe that English is compromised spiritually to be the opposite of ancient Hebrew, Sanskrit and Greek. This attempt was made to cut off our divine connection to the creator and thus keep us complacent – akin to Hitler adding the toxin we now call Fluoride into the water supply, having a physical effect of complacency. Most Anglo-based languages read in reverse (left to right) from their ancient sacred Hebrew language. It is not only amalgamation which has resulted in this reverse speech, IMO.
We saw the first instance of fractional reserve banking originating from the Babylon Talmudic practices. I believe Christ himself addressed this notion as being used as “a den of thieves and robbers” while in God’s house etc. Much of the Zodiac and Jewish pagan calendars were adopted from the Canaanites but it was the rabbi priests who corrupted the early Leviticus priesthood and invented the "oral law" or the Talmud. So there is the connection from the Leviticus Priesthood and the Talmud – all originating from the Canaanites, which were practicing human sacrifice also.
History shows that the Jews were often a people without a land and this is a very large topic to discuss. Theosophists, like Madame Blavatsky mention the Karmic effect on the Jews over various incarnations due to their animosity toward each other dating back before the time of Christ and up until this very day. However, I should explain more on a certain point in time in Palestine. During the time of Christ the Israelites were a people made up of Samaritans, Judeans, Galantines and many others. Their languages were Hebrew, Aramaic and some Greek. These peoples were worshipping “Jehovah” or the God of Moses and one God of all the heavens and Earth. Yet, Moses never brought a cruel God to the Israelites, did he?

These Israelites were very hostile to one another and were eagerly awaiting the return of God to the earth! Hey awaited a powerful king! Do you think they may still be waiting today, not seeing the prince of peace come as they are still awaiting a powerful king, as opposed to a God of Mercy? They accepted only one God, yet applied their cruel human vices to their God and those who lived under that God were to be ruled by a cruel and vengeful God. The Jew was often persecuted by their fellow Jew. At that time there were also the Romans and they were the rulers of Palestine and almost all the Middle-east. These heathens spoke Latin and Greek and worshipped the Greek Olympian Gods/Goddesses. Much of today’s society is based on Roman law and culture, as Greek culture was integrated into Roman and many Greeks were Roman citizens or soldiers and philosophers. The Romans actually considered the Jewish Mosaic laws to be barbarous and evil! The Sanhedrin and King Herod were appointed by the Roman Caesar to be the ruler over the body of the Israelites and the Essenes. Many Israelites became Roman citizens to escape the cruelness of the Sanhedrin’s foolish application of the Mosaic laws.

The Bedouins (who later brought us Mohammed of Islam) were Nomads and followed the Old Testament as the Israelites and worshipped the God of Abraham. Allah was the name of their God. They spoke mostly Aramaic and Greek but also some also spoke Latin. The Essenes (who are the direct descendants of the Israelites Egyptians) remained in Egypt after Amenhotep IV brought Aton. The Essenes were typically Greek speaking Israelites who are also called “Nazarenes”. They Essenes were living mainly in Heliopolis and Alexandria and in other places like Cyprus. They did not accept Roman citizenship and never wished to separate from the rest of the Israelites under Sanhedrin law (under Roman occupation). The accepted the one spirit God of the Universe and called him “Aton-ai” and they awaited the birth of Joshua the Christ (Jesus) in Palestine. They denounced the false Gods of the many Egyptians and Romans. Amenhotep IV denounced the false Gods of the Egyptians, also.

Now, today we still have the offshoots of the Essenes and the overgrowths of the Jewish Israelites. The Israelite off growths were integrated into Europe and with the Sanhedrin still following the Talmud laws became many of the elite ruling calls. (The Talmud is the closet mumbo-jumbo of despotic hearsay and law I have ever read!) Having sex with a child 2 year-old was just fine with the Talmudic law of the Sanhedrin! The Talmud appears to be still in use today (think Saudi Arabia??) In the 4’Th century the Talmud was once again recompiled by the Jews. Some historians believe that there is a world-wide conspiracy promulgated by the British-Israel movement, which claims to be based upon the ancient teachings of the early Masonic Israelites which have their roots from the Masonic builders of the Temple of Solomon. These movements were connected to the Hitlerian-like views which seem to be anti-Semitic in nature – they deny the Holocaust for example and also consider the Jews to be heretics and not part of the lost 10 tribes of Israel etc. I believe that the British Israel movement are none other than royal families of the earliest settlers into Europe and although some of them claim to be connected to the Israelites they are not. They are in fact reviving the early Sanhedrin who always were those oppressors of the Jewish people; ruling over them with an iron fist – even worse than the Romans!

So the connection to Amon-Ra is difficult to explain but the idea of human sacrifice is still supported by a sect of the Kabalistic Sanhedrin which is now the ruling elite. They are not Jews but imposters and they have Masonic roots which have allowed them to hide their true objectives. They support Amon-Ra in that they have no love for the Spiritual Sun of Truth, they rule by law and order, using coercion to force those into compliance. The Amon-Ra followers were the Sons of Belial and always opposing the Atonists, the Son’s of the Law of One and this battle continues to this very day. If you read Albert Pikes work he goes into detail regarding the Influence of the Sun-disk in masonry. Many of those symbols are not Greek or Roman but early Egyptian symbols which have esoteric understandings that cannot be said to have only been merely borrowed; as they are understood by those using them today for good or evil.

Atonism was simply a revival of the oldest of understandings and a return to the spiritual understandings. This battle wages on to this very day. Khor Amon (another Atonist) was another supporter and has reincarnated up until this very century. (I am not permitted to reveal this publicly). Amenhotep IV had an experience that has been bastardized by the later followers of Amon-Ra which still eludes many researchers today. Amenhotep IV was in contact with 2 archangels who helped him to advance and thus bring back the oldest truth of Monotheism.

It was political selfishness to ascertain power and control that eventually led to the falling the early Egyptians away from the true teachings of Thoth and others, thus the Son’s of Belial attempted to destroy the symbols and lead those following the spirit/soul ego down false paths of enlightenment. These occurrences are the reason there is still so much confusion today. However, this mimics an earlier occurrence from Atlantian times.

Ra was the first understanding of the spiritual Sun. Like Aton – the spiritual Sun later degraded into Sun worship. The sun gave us life and the early worshippers saw that life, as being from a Sun-God. Ra or “Rai” was to be the father of all but RA derives in Hebrew to mean El. From my understanding Saturn came about from the worshipping of the various Archangels of the Kabala and with the mergence of Greek folklore.

The Greeks derived the idea of Hermes or the Moon from the Egyptians to be known as Thoth or Hermes. Thoth was a son of Ra or El. Mercury was another God which represented on the centers of energy on the tree of life. Manly P. Hall made the assumption that Jesus was not the Son of God – he understood the “sun set” and “sun rising” concepts correctly however. As a brilliant seeker of truth he applied the early understandings to the reason the influence of the early church etc. However, he did not apply it all correctly, as he may have assumed that the man-Gods were the same as the God-man etc. Even Buddha said that the birth of Joshua (Jesus) would be a direct/divine ray of the logos – with no reincarnation to perfection like that of Moses or Abraham etc. Manly was a Theosophist and as such has very similar teachings to the early Essenes and GWB but there are some vital differences also. The stories of Zeus and Hercules have more to so with the metaphors of the Kabala or the journey of the prodigal son being crucified upon the Tree of life; the cleansing if the egoism and 12 phases of temporary personality. The various paths shown in the tree of life are but life struggles or journeys of the Heracles, the son of Zeus.

It is the dualistic nature of the atom, the dualistic nature of earth (Gaia) and balancing through free will of the heavenly father. The earth Goddess was seen as that playground for both the mesocosmic and microcosmic development of the human soul. The feminine principle was the provider or nurture and not a sustainer of matter as such. She gives us the bones and skin but does nothing with it. To worship her was to respect the archangels of creation and not the earth itself. Similar to respecting the nature spirits by the N.A Native Indians. When dissent entered which created a material understanding, rather than spiritual, various Manichean and Canaanite cults began worshipping the earth God and giving it a name – we have seen this spoken of in the Bible for instance. They would offer up a human or animal sacrifice to their God rather than offer Mercy - which is the original understanding of the feminine principle. Mother Mary of the Bible is seen as the Essene Isis.

All these Goddess represent the coming back of the Messiah and that Messiah has been referred to by some as the Son of God, Horus. To the Jews and Christians and Muslims, it is the return of Jesus. Besides the Muslims and Jews who accept Jesus as a Great Prophet and teacher, there are also other sects of Israelite-Jews who still do not accept the God-man Jesus as even a Prophet, but would rather refer to him as a Son of a whore. That in itself is of no consequence except that they wish a new kingdom upon the earth. Do Christians still await the coming of a man on a cloud or in flesh? Many still do await the return of Christ and disappointed shall they be when he never returns in the flesh – for as per St. John, the flesh means nothing! Yet, these groups will all find that it is we who must return to the Christ Consciousness, sooner or later and it is we who must find Christ in ourselves. No land or nation can achieve what we must travel inwardly to know and for those who are building the new Israel; what do they plan on achieving exactly?



There is Roman-pagan influence bearing on today’s church. The church was split into parts, so-to speak. The one of St. Paul and real church which Christ told St John was in his heart! The Church of Rome and Vatican are still fighting an internal dispute over the divinity of the God man’s return of Christ. It was St. Spryion who convinced the early church father to accept Christ as the Godly man by literally scaring them hell out of them through his mastery of the tree of life and using ether to turn matter into fire, water and earth! Even the Christian cross is an ancient Egyptian symbol and to be Crucified mean to destroy the egoism and to return to our true nature – that of God lings! The Catholic Church is filled of the zodiacal signs and even the Roman scales of justice. Btw, the Romans merely borrowed the scales of justice from the ancient Egyptians before them (Anubis judging the dead etc). These laws are still applied today and we actually still live in sort of a Roman dictatorship. The Statue of Liberty was built on water, yet they cannot do that unless built on land to comply with International Admiralty Roman law. The erected a piece of land to build it upon etc. They follow these rules and a lawyer will most likely not be aware if this unless he studies Roman law. Lawyers study the rules of law but not Law itself.

Many wish to know more about the elusive Great White Brotherhood and researchers will try to connect them through various bloodlines and cultures, they will attempt to find a starting and ending for the organization called the Great White Brotherhood. Yet, they ignore the most important concept of the GWB. The GWB was never an organization as such and thus they have no real hierarchy or bloodline to trace. What we can trace is the level of consciousness certain people have reached and thus their level of understanding. Researchers run into much trouble trying to connect all the dots because they seem to blur under the atrophies of time and reincarnation plays a huge role, rather than mere family blood. Thus much of the GWB are not blood related but rather familiar souls. Not always are they reincarnating with same bloodlines and I have struggled with this part myself. However I do know several member of the GWB. The Christian named St. Origen was a dear friend to me. GWB are here and if you search, you shall find them. The GWB have been given names of those that we know of, yet many more go unnoticed. The story of the 3 wise men and the finding of baby Jesus was in fact, a new beginning for the GWB outgrowth in recent times. The white robe itself is a symbol of purity. Some researchers have tried to imply that Jesus went to the East to learn about the esoteric teachings but I stress that this knowledge is not borrowed, as it is known – from before the time the ancient sage Manu brought Brahma, Vishnu ands Shiva to the Hindu people etc. The group today are found in the United States, Europe and Asia. Virginia Beach USA is just some of the places of gathering for them. They are not immortals (that is the theosophists opinion again) but they are advanced souls who remember their past lives and are masters of materialization and dematerialization. They were amongst the early founding fathers and have influenced positive growth and brotherly love. Certain evil elements have attempted to impersonate them and thus a truth seeker must improve upon their skills of observation in order to know the imposters from the real.

Freemasonry can be traced back to Solomon’s temple. Freemasons had a role to play in creating the English language and they were the aware of the ancient rites and secrets of King Solomon. The Templar Knights did not start Freemasonry but were reborn-outgrowths of it, from the influences of the finding of the Solomon ruins. The Templar Knights applied a practice (using constructive thought formations) to become great bankers, after they were influenced by the Kabala and Muslim invaders. Their paintings and gravesites show connections to the ancient Leviticus Priesthood and their Scottish connections to the Sinclair’s floor plan (of Sinclair’s castle) is evidence of this influence. Could the discovery of the ruins of Solomon have been a rebirth of Masonry into more modern times? The Templar Flagship “the Falcon” had the skull and cross bones markings. Although the Templar’s influence died down, they may have been the original founders of modern Masonry. Take a look at the British flag – it is in a Union Jack or “Jolly Roger” cross bones design. Cutting the English flag into quarters and turning them 90 degrees bears a swastika which dates back over 70,000 years in the Naacal teachings. The early American Confederacy flag was also of a cross bones design. It is possible that the powerful families of the Rothschild’s and the like are of the Templar Origin and have had influence over the creation of the Confederate flag also, as these powerful families primarily funded the American civil war.

Basically, the first wavers of “Lilith” were angels that descended into gross matter. The first wavers into the earth were of all sorts of creations (part animals and other strange creatures like the Unicorn, mermaid etc) and they were also the Giants and midgets in the earth. The Nephilim or annukai were the offspring of the daughters of man or the first wavers with the Adams. They were called human-animals and were easily controlled by the evil Son’s of Belial.

The first Adam was hermaphroditic and lived in an ethereal world. Not material, but the etheric double of the planet earth. The first wavers or "Lilith”, that creature that evolved over millions and millions of years to provide for the Adams the (serpent) or sex desires, was evenutally replaced by Eve. Eve was created instantly (from Adam) and thus as perfect as Adam. This occurred with the splitting of the Adam/Atom into positive and counter positive – not negative! Christ is a conscienceless of sorts and has no sexual affiliation. The Greats of all time usually look for God first, before looking for a woman. A woman must follow the Adam back to the Heavens. A woman should look for a man who is looking for God, yet in this society, men want to own the woman and vice versa. Again the twelve journeys of the Heracles have to do with the Prodigal son and the journey of the man retuning home.

No Adam/Eve or Nephilim revolted against God! The fall simply means into limited conscienceless or matter. The nephilim were not of the animal’s level of simple instinctive consciousness but they were very cut-off brother of ours who evolved over million and millions of years before the rescue mission of Amilius into the 5 root races.

Direct teachings of the Great White Brotherhood were known as the Logos was with Thoth and Amilius was the First Adam who projected himself into the material earth as hermaphrodite man 10.5 million years ago. The role of the opposite represents the “fallen ones” and they are those entities which did not pass through the archetype of man and thus try to corrupt man to follow the 7 deadly sins. They are not “beings” as such but Gods. They are also our brothers but have created within themselves, what is called the darkness. The Son’s of Belial are humans that follow the influences of the “fallen ones”. We are playing out the role in existence (mesocosmically and microcosmically) to ourselves and the fallen ones return to where they are now already – but in order to achieve this theosis, we need only to remove something – there is nothing to gain in theosis but something to be removed.

I learned only of Thoth's flying craft from the writings of Cayce and you can get much of this on the internet for free also! Thoth was an Atlantian who brought the human-animals to Egypt, finally freeing with the help of many others. When he came into Egypt the peoples became influenced by the incredible advancements and erected the pyramids as healing and spiritual temples. They were never meant to act as tombs – as that came later on. Thoth was of the highest level of Christ Consciousness and just one of what we the Great White Brotherhood. He was able to control the 4 types of ether and could travel noetically or within the (5 dimensional worlds). Could this explain why the US covered up what they found on the moon? The U.S.A did land there but much of the photos where fakes or altered – this we know. The Ibis bird (associated with Thoth) is symbolic of the divisions between the subconscious human mind and the conscious, self-conscience and super self conscious. Thoth was able to reach super self-awareness, which explains the legends and his great abilities – similar to Moses etc.

The pyramids were erected as power centers and also to help remove the appendages of the human-animals and thus Thoth succeeded in freeing all of them just after the 3’rd and final destruction (Noah times) which wiped out the last Islands of Atlantis.

The reptilians’ race may have originated from the Chakras vision or 3’rd eye. When you are near a Son of Belial you sometimes sense their darkness. You may feel drained or tired in their presence. They tend to be psychic vampires (sometimes unintentionally) and most Son’s of Belial are either Children of the law of One who got corrupted, or people who were always indulging in the passions of the material earth. Could they be like the Skull and Boners? How is the world run today? But when researchers like David Icke say they were reptiles, why do people laugh? David is close except that he does not yet realize that the clairvoyants see the Son’s of Belial as shaft shifting like and reptilian like. Not with their material eyes but the 3’rd eye they can notice this at times.

I must admit that my interpretations, as for the likes of societies like Bohemian Grove are flimsy when compared to much of the other facts I know for certain. I would love input from you and the member of ATS on these mysterious current societies. From my readings of the likes of Alister Crowley, Theodor Reuss, Anton Levy and others, I wonder what makes them any different then the Son’s of Belial who used the same symbols as the Children of the Law of One, thousands of millennia ago. A symbol is meaningless without an intention or application behind it. Crowley uses an inverted pentagram to call upon the thought-forms to serve or be served for selfish purposes. The inversion is used for self reasons only and anything devoid of love is satanic or opposes Love. Not to imply that habits or mistakes we make are evil or satanic but rather that anything which does not help us destroy the egoism, is not true love. And what is not love, is not God! Thus knowledge in the absence of love is useless IMO. This makes sense because knowledge is simply the correct application of the mind – or using the mind as higher reason. So to reason correctly, is to also love.

In early times it was an eye for an eye. This means a deal or a bargain for man to rule over man. Moses never brought the law; the Jews merely misunderstood what Moses tried to teach them. Some understood the true teachings and they were the Israelite Essenes. Moses was an Egyptian Prince and thus Amon-Ra worship was still on-going at the time of Moses. Moses opposed the teachings of Amon-Ra. Yet, just as Jesus asked for Mercy and not sacrifice, how many people today will sacrifice another soul for their God? How many people will burn 6,000,000 Jews and call it “Holocaust” unless it was a possible offering to the Gods? Hitler was also an avid occultist. Alister Crowley writes in Majic about how a male child of perfect innocence can be the most suitable victim to those who would want to ascertain the ether or life-force of another. Where did Alister learn of this kind of practice and who did this before? He makes reference to the worship of Amon-Ra the Sun-God.

This practice continues to this day at the highest levels of government. It is inter mixed with Talmudic law and used by those in power to satisfy their carnal desire of gaining prominence and power. Over 100,000 children disappear every year. The high profile and organized child kidnapping ring was supported by the CIA setting up the Finders, which is a CIA front operation. Now the CIA do not work for themselves, so who do they work for then? I have also looked into the influence that Mandel House had over Wilfred Wilson and found that this may in fact be related to a form of hypnosis or mind control. Of course, I have no real proof of this. The Church of Set broke free from the church of Satan not only for reasons of misunderstanding between Levy and Michael Aquino. Aquino wanted to restore to an earlier rendition of Set worship! Both of these organizations have gained support and influence and prominence by our leaders and instead of them taking this threat seriously, they grant them further immunity to practice dangerous ritual, by considering it a sanctioned religion! But why do this to be fair and noble? Freedom is not about doing what you want but about doing what we know we should do and understanding why. Skull and Bones and the like ilk Bohemian Grove do not only combine Egyptian, with the Greek and Roman but they in fact use it for bad practice. Much evidence of male sex slaves and pedophilia in the White House and even the call boys at the Grove have received national press coverage. I assume this means they are not of the Children of the Law of One but imposters of some sort. Exactly who, I can only speculate until the shade is lifted via demand of the people to expose this criminal element. Would you have an interpretation of the influences that come to play in these groups?

Regarding the earth changes, I have a major interest in this particular area, as we can see the effects playing out before us. I do not see the Mayan calendar as the be-all and end-all as many do. Also, the ending date of the Mayan calendar is supposedly 2010-2012 which I pay no particular attention to. My understanding is mostly coming from the work of Edgar Cayce and as such, I have many books (from several authors) explaining everything from the time of Atlantis, to the new coming polar shifts. I look at the precession of the equinox as 2 periods of time or rather 2 X 36 years periods. We have entered into the last years of the first half of the equinox and have Sowed. 2007-2008 represents the second half where we shall reap what we’ve sowed. I expect that the reality is confirmed by the strange storms we are now having and also the fact that there will need to be much change in order for us to enter into a new age of Aquarius. This is an echo of the early Atlantian wars that have continued through all the ages. The pole shift we are experiencing is not a magnetic shift as much, as I believe it will be a rotation-axis type of shift, resulting in a massive climate change. Simply put, the pole shifting will result in the destruction of much of the world superpowers. The Zodiacal connection is immense as, the zodiac is the sun’s connection to the heavens in the trinity of the macrocosmic, mesocosmic and microcosmic. The 12 signs are just as the 12 Apostle of Jesus. Some researchers have gone so far as to imply there was no man names Jesus, as they imply the 12 Apostles to Jesus and also that Christmas is the birth date of Horus etc. However, they fail to realize that Jesus had hundreds of Apostles, and the Church of Rome was adamant about denying the divinity of the God-man. Is it no surprise then how we see in Roman Catholic painting, Jesus with a Sun rising behind his head? Going from Bull to Ram and to Pieces and so firth, we now enter Aquarius. Thus the Fish are now entering the water element of the next root race, so to speak. I consider the zodiac to be the 12 patterns of the human un-evolved personality. The Bible speaks of the 12 tribes of Israel as an example of this influence. Following the clock of the zodiac is also mimicking the energy centers or sacred disks. The counter clockwise rotations of both are a sign of our return home.




[edit on 4-10-2005 by realrepublican]

Originally posted by realrepublican

Many wish to know more about the elusive Great White Brotherhood and researchers will try to connect them through various bloodlines and cultures, they will attempt to find a starting and ending for the organization called the Great White Brotherhood. Yet, they ignore the most important concept of the GWB. The GWB was never an organization as such and thus they have no real hierarchy or bloodline to trace.

I don't think this is correct. The Illuminati were of higher rank than the others of the Brotherhood. And the Brotherhood,as the Great White Brotherhood,appears to have very traceable roots. The body that they were a manifestation of may not have however. The Great White Brotherhood I'm sure was a splinter or branch of a preceeding group. Namely the Brotherhood of the Snake/Illuminati.

What we can trace is the level of consciousness certain people have reached and thus their level of understanding. Researchers run into much trouble trying to connect all the dots because they seem to blur under the atrophies of time and reincarnation plays a huge role, rather than mere family blood. Thus much of the GWB are not blood related but rather familiar souls.

I've never known them to be thought to be connected by blood.

They are not immortals (that is the theosophists opinion again) but they are advanced souls who remember their past lives and are masters of materialization and dematerialization. They were amongst the early founding fathers and have influenced positive growth and brotherly love. Certain evil elements have attempted to impersonate them and thus a truth seeker must improve upon their skills of observation in order to know the imposters from the real.

It's believed by some that this body had already been corrupted and it's knowledge perverted by evil elements by the time it became the group sometimes called the Great White Brotherhood. Given that the earliest mention of the GWB form of this group I've seen is circa 2,000 BC,chronologically that would be the case. An example cited of the perversions already having taken place was the GWB's teaching of mummification. Some believe the original teachings of how to preserve one's self got twisted into mummification,the preservation of one's physical shell.

Basically, the first wavers of “Lilith” were angels that descended into gross matter. The first wavers into the earth were of all sorts of creations (part animals and other strange creatures like the Unicorn, mermaid etc) and they were also the Giants and midgets in the earth. The Nephilim or annukai were the offspring of the daughters of man or the first wavers with the Adams. They were called human-animals and were easily controlled by the evil Son’s of Belial.

According to the ancient writings the Annunaki were who created Adam(Adamu) in the first place. They were not the offspring of humans. The Nephilim were the Annunaki that had been cast or stationed on Earth. The giants spoken of in the Bible are the King James translation of the word "nephilim". Nephilim were in the Earth but it is translated into English,incorrectly some say,as "giants" were in the Earth. The other meaning of Nephilim is "those who came down". Which makes more sense in my opinion than giants. Particularly since if there were giant people walking around you'd think there'd be some mention of them aside from that one passage. Whereas there are numerous passages mentioning beings coming down.

The first Adam was hermaphroditic and lived in an ethereal world. Not material, but the etheric double of the planet earth. The first wavers or "Lilith”, that creature that evolved over millions and millions of years to provide for the Adams the (serpent) or sex desires, was evenutally replaced by Eve.

Is this Gnostic? I'm not sure I understand this.

Direct teachings of the Great White Brotherhood were known as the Logos was with Thoth and Amilius was the First Adam who projected himself into the material earth as hermaphrodite man 10.5 million years ago.

Where is this figure coming from? The Mesopotamian account places the creation of Man much much earlier than that and archeaology supports those time periods given. But these periods are only thousands of years ago.

I learned only of Thoth's flying craft from the writings of Cayce and you can get much of this on the internet for free also! Thoth was an Atlantian who brought the human-animals to Egypt, finally freeing with the help of many others. When he came into Egypt the peoples became influenced by the incredible advancements and erected the pyramids as healing and spiritual temples. They were never meant to act as tombs – as that came later on. Thoth was of the highest level of Christ Consciousness and just one of what we the Great White Brotherhood. He was able to control the 4 types of ether and could travel noetically or within the (5 dimensional worlds).

According to Mesopotamian history Thoth was the son of Enki(creator of Man and chief scientist,technician,and doctor of the Annunaki) who was taught all of his father's knowledge. He was primarily a healer and was represented with his father's emblem,the Brotherhood of the Snake symbol:two entwined serpents around a winged staff;the symbol to this day of the medical profession. This would explain his flying craft since those are the vehicles the Annunaki used.

The reptilians’ race may have originated from the Chakras vision or 3’rd eye.

The Annunaki are often said to be the reptilian race.

But when researchers like David Icke say they were reptiles, why do people laugh? David is close except that he does not yet realize that the clairvoyants see the Son’s of Belial as shaft shifting like and reptilian like. Not with their material eyes but the 3’rd eye they can notice this at times.

Icke didn't say anything about being sons of Belial but he does say clairvoyants can see them. Icke like others says that the reptilians can manifest to differing degrees of density. Some which are only perceptible to clairvoyants,some which are visible to the naked eye.

Regarding the earth changes, I have a major interest in this particular area, as we can see the effects playing out before us. I do not see the Mayan calendar as the be-all and end-all as many do. Also, the ending date of the Mayan calendar is supposedly 2010-2012 which I pay no particular attention to.

It's my understanding that 2012 is an astronomically known date of vast cosmic occurence. I don't know what's going to happen but apparently something big will.

Simply put, the pole shifting will result in the destruction of much of the world superpowers. The Zodiacal connection is immense as, the zodiac is the sun’s connection to the heavens in the trinity of the macrocosmic, mesocosmic and microcosmic. The 12 signs are just as the 12 Apostle of Jesus. Some researchers have gone so far as to imply there was no man names Jesus, as they imply the 12 Apostles to Jesus and also that Christmas is the birth date of Horus etc. However, they fail to realize that Jesus had hundreds of Apostles, and the Church of Rome was adamant about denying the divinity of the God-man.

I've seen some pretty damning cases made about a "Jesus Christ" never existing,but never based on these reasons you just gave.




[edit on 4-10-2005 by Loungerist]

Originally posted by Loungerist
Nephilim were in the Earth but it is translated into English,incorrectly some say,as "giants" were in the Earth. The other meaning of Nephilim is "those who came down". Which makes more sense in my opinion than giants. Particularly since if there were giant people walking around you'd think there'd be some mention of them aside from that one passage. Whereas there are numerous passages mentioning beings coming down.

Not that I'm buying any of this, but just for the record:

"And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." - Numbers 13:33

Originally posted by realrepublican
In the highest levels of reality there cannot be more than one Absolute Being God. We are all in IT and nothing can exist, outside of it. We are one with God but in the worlds of separateness, we have created our own Gods to worship also.

It's all well and good that you make such a statement, but the fact remains that there are several religions that believe that there are in fact two "Absolute Beings," the most well-known probably being Zoroastrianism.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Not that I'm buying any of this, but just for the record:

"And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." - Numbers 13:33

For clarification,I'm referring specifically to Genesis. As this creation tale is acknowledged by scholars to have come from the story told in these Mesopotamian texts. And to my recollection it has no mention of giants except for in that passage.




[edit on 4-10-2005 by Loungerist]

Originally posted by realrepublican
True! Christ was not a Jew - but an Essene.

Except that the Essenes were a sect of Judaism.

Originally posted by realrepublican
An interesting perspective on the word “Illumine”, as we in fact derive many words from this meaning of early enlightenment. The word for a graduate of school, or “Alumni” is but one. You also become an El-der. We get to El-ect our leaders, who get EL-ected etc.

alumnus (pl. alumni) is Latin for "nursling or pupil” and derives from the Latin alere "nourish", not illuminare.

elect does not contain a root or prefix of El but instead derives from e- "out of" and legere "pick".

elder isn’t even derived from Latin but goes back to Old English eldra and is obviously related to the word old. So anything that isn’t new must have this connection!



[edit on 4-10-2005 by Lexicon]

[edit on 4-10-2005 by Lexicon]

I don't think this is correct. The Illuminati were of higher rank than the others of the Brotherhood. And the Brotherhood,as the Great White Brotherhood,appears to have very traceable roots. The body that they were a manifestation of may not have however. The Great White Brotherhood I'm sure was a splinter or branch of a preceeding group. Namely the Brotherhood of the Snake/Illuminati.

I wonder if these high rank Illuminati are the original Son’s of Belial of Atlantis – or wicked magicians evolving through various Manichean sects etc. Researchers such as Franz Springmier even place the GWB at the very top of the Illuminati pyramid, if I remember correctly? The Brotherhood of the Snake was supposedly the cabal of Luciferians who brought forth or rather revised the original “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, or as some researchers claim the “Protocols of the Synagogue of Satan”. Researchers like Edward Griffin believe the Protocols are a forgery - but I wonder if there was an original version – may be the Talmud itself? What is your take/understanding on the Protocols?

It's believed by some that this body had already been corrupted and it's knowledge perverted by evil elements by the time it became the group sometimes called the Great White Brotherhood. Given that the earliest mention of the GWB form of this group I've seen is circa 2,000 BC,chronologically that would be the case. An example cited of the perversions already having taken place was the GWB's teaching of mummification. Some believe the original teachings of how to preserve one's self got twisted into mummification,the preservation of one's physical shell.

I read of another group called the “Black Brotherhood”. Loungerist, do you think these evil elements have been upholding the age-old Babylonian Talmudic doctrines and what does your research reveal regarding the possibility of a Black Brotherhood? Great point on the mummification also! In fact, my own research reveals that this practice was not acceptable to many of the Pharisees and the Egyptians were of many different peoples – the Pharisees (who knew more) and the people who followed the rulers and culture of the day.

According to the ancient writings the Annunaki were who created Adam(Adamu) in the first place. They were not the offspring of humans. The Nephilim were the Annunaki that had been cast or stationed on Earth. The giants spoken of in the Bible are the King James translation of the word "nephilim". Nephilim were in the Earth but it is translated into English,incorrectly some say,as "giants" were in the Earth. The other meaning of Nephilim is "those who came down". Which makes more sense in my opinion than giants. Particularly since if there were giant people walking around you'd think there'd be some mention of them aside from that one passage. Whereas there are numerous passages mentioning beings coming down.

Lucifer is the archangel of the Earth and Atlantian’s may have referred to the first wavers as “Lucifers” also. In the Bible when God said, “Let us create man in our image/likeness” he may have been speaking to the Archangel orders, which created the Universe, rather than the Annukai. But you have a good point, as may be Nephilim and Annukai are very different concepts altogether and need to be kept separate from each other. The first wavers (or Lucifers) represent those first Monstrosities that came here Millions of years before the Adams or Eve’s. But these thought-forms included the unicorns and other strange combinations of myth. When the Adam’s came to Earth 10.5 million years BC, some Adam’s started mating with the Lilith’s and this created Monstrosities like Giants and midgets etc. But there were much more than Giants and Midgets, based on the Atlantian text I’ve read.

Where is this figure coming from? The Mesopotamian account places the creation of Man much earlier than that and archeaology supports those time periods given. But these periods are only thousands of years ago.

I thought that science supported the 10.5 millions years but had a period before then (or a missing link) connecting the Adams to the earlier primates. There is no missing link, based on my research – man was created instantly as pure thought will-pleasure into this material world.

According to Mesopotamian history Thoth was the son of Enki(creator of Man and chief scientist,technician,and doctor of the Annunaki) who was taught all of his father's knowledge. He was primarily a healer and was represented with his father's emblem,the Brotherhood of the Snake symbol:two entwined serpents around a winged staff;the symbol to this day of the medical profession. This would explain his flying craft since those are the vehicles the Annunaki used.

Could these two snakes or serpents represent either the water DNA, or that sex desire? The serpent is often referred to as sex desires representing both male and female separation.

It's my understanding that 2012 is an astronomically known date of vast cosmic occurence. I don't know what's going to happen but apparently something big will.

I planned for it also, just in case and I admit that I think some other serious changes may come before 2012.

Originally posted by realrepublican
I wonder if these high rank Illuminati are the original Son’s of Belial of Atlantis – or wicked magicians evolving through various Manichean sects etc. Researchers such as Franz Springmier even place the GWB at the very top of the Illuminati pyramid, if I remember correctly?

They would be if they are the same group as the Brotherhood of the Snake,which they appear to be.

The Brotherhood of the Snake was supposedly the cabal of Luciferians who brought forth or rather revised the original “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, or as some researchers claim the “Protocols of the Synagogue of Satan”. Researchers like Edward Griffin believe the Protocols are a forgery - but I wonder if there was an original version – may be the Talmud itself? What is your take/understanding on the Protocols?

I didn't know the Protocols were related to this. I'd have to look into them because I don't know anything about them really.

I read of another group called the “Black Brotherhood”. Loungerist, do you think these evil elements have been upholding the age-old Babylonian Talmudic doctrines and what does your research reveal regarding the possibility of a Black Brotherhood?

The Black Brotherhood,near as I can tell,is just what the malevolent members of the group were later called. It should be kept in mind that neither the "Great White Brotherhood" nor "Black Brotherhood" were the actual names of this group. That is just 2 names of many that they were sometimes called. This group had no name as that is an Illuminati tactic to maintain secrecy.

Great point on the mummification also! In fact, my own research reveals that this practice was not acceptable to many of the Pharisees and the Egyptians were of many different peoples – the Pharisees (who knew more) and the people who followed the rulers and culture of the day.

Hmmm. Didn't know that. That would certainly fit from what I've read.

Lucifer is the archangel of the Earth and Atlantian’s may have referred to the first wavers as “Lucifers” also. In the Bible when God said, “Let us create man in our image/likeness” he may have been speaking to the Archangel orders, which created the Universe, rather than the Annukai.

Angels and the Annunaki could easily be one in the same. Zecharia Sitchin offers that the word translated as "God" in the Bible also means gods,like how "deer" is both plural and singular. The alterations of the original texts apparently bleed through on occasion in the Bible to create quirky verses. I noticed one day that in Exodus 6:7 Jehovah says he will be onto Israel "a God"(capital "G"). Then refers to himself as the Lord and says he'll be "their God". This would appear to support that the actual word being used is a general one and not a name. In the Annunaki tale "us" is the Annunaki who created Man. However,since the Bible sought monotheism "us" is left unexplained leaving individuals to create their own theories on who it refers to. Perhaps the author(editor may be more accurate) of Genesis intended for "us" to refer to a singular God and his angels,but that was not the case in the original version.

But you have a good point, as may be Nephilim and Annukai are very different concepts altogether and need to be kept separate from each other.

It depends. Personally I'm not sure I agree that the Annunaki were a race. Going by what the name means it seems to me that any race that came from the skies in flying craft would be Annunaki and not just one race in particular. This would also help explain why the Annunaki are depicted as humanlike in appearence when many believe the Annunaki to be the reptilians. Not that the theory needs this explanation mind you as there are already several.

The first wavers (or Lucifers) represent those first Monstrosities that came here Millions of years before the Adams or Eve’s. But these thought-forms included the unicorns and other strange combinations of myth. When the Adam’s came to Earth 10.5 million years BC, some Adam’s started mating with the Lilith’s and this created Monstrosities like Giants and midgets etc. But there were much more than Giants and Midgets, based on the Atlantian text I’ve read.

Ahhhhh,OK. This is Atlantian you're using. I haven't started reading much on Atlantis yet but I plan to get around to it.

I thought that science supported the 10.5 millions years but had a period before then (or a missing link) connecting the Adams to the earlier primates. There is no missing link, based on my research – man was created instantly as pure thought will-pleasure into this material world.

The earliest species(to use the term generally) that could be considered a "man" was probably the Australopithecine,but they existed only about 2 million years ago if memory seves. The apes the Australopithecine are believed to have evolved from may have been around 10.5 million years ago but they were not men. There is a Missing Link but that's much more recently up the line.

Could these two snakes or serpents represent either the water DNA, or that sex desire? The serpent is often referred to as sex desires representing both male and female separation.

Enki was often represented as a snake because his touchdown base was in a snake-infested marsh. Sitchin believes Enki's symbol of the two entwined serpents represent the DNA double helix,the code of life. I don't know if that's the case or not but it would be pretty cool and I think it's as good a theory as any.

Originally posted by Loungerist

Angels and the Annunaki could easily be one in the same. Zecharia Sitchin offers that the word translated as "God" in the Bible also means gods,like how "deer" is both plural and singular.

I confess I've just been skimming most of the posts in this thread, since they're long and don't seem to make all that much sense to someone like me who isn't much into attempting to link together hundreds of disparate ideas into strange conspiracy theories ranging back thousands of years, but I noticed this statement and have something to say about it.

It's not that the word translated as "God" can be plural or singular, but that the word is plural, period. Elohim, which shows up serveral times, means "gods." The singular is "el" or "eloah." There are several theories as to why it is plural, ranging from the statement that it did in fact mean "gods," as the Hebrews at one point worshipped numerous gods, to the statement that it's something akin to the Royal "We."