Gender Eradication

Some geneticists think the Y chromosome is now little more than a genetic wasteland that will eventually just disappear. If that were to happen, it would certainly spell the end of sexual reproduction.

They did use to think that but lately a number of genes have been discovered on the Y. Of those genes, some are also on the X, while others are active only in reproductive organs. The Y chromosome remains unchanged from father and son, and is basically the same on every man on earth accept for a rare mutation that occasionally comes and is passed down. Many male only genes however are stored in other chromosomes, so it would be possible to create males with no Y, though they may not be able to reproduce.

Y chromosome

As for the topic itself, I strongly doubt this would be beneficial. Unless drugs are used to remove our sexual, and genetic, urges, most people would probably just turn to homosexuality. Too many of those urges are from our DNA, and thus would be very difficult to get rid of, even in such a controlled society.

I know that people are apathetic and can easily be manipulated into giving away their freedoms. But if anything done by our governments is going to cause the people to rise against them and rebel, it will be this.

The eradication of our "basic urges" wouldn't be any help at all, it would be going back, and who male or female in there right mind would give up sex? For one, its one of the most intimate and pleasurable things you can do, and I can assure you the general population wouldn't give that up easily.

Without basic urges one is freed to higher thinking.

Even on every way of thinking, I can't see how my "basic urges" get in the way. I'm frequently involved in a group that basically theorises, not an online group. A person to person group. Over the past few years we've came up with some very different models for the universe and the way it works, comprised of scientific individuals and artistic individuals with both genders and everyone is either in or has been in a relationship I’m sure involving "basic urges". No one has published anything but, we've thought about it a few times.

Now you could also be talking about meditation, I've personally seen some VERY! odd things, that either have a direct or in-direct connection to what I guess you could call "spiritual exploration". Both events activities either surpass or match the term "higher thinking".

Reproduction would be handled separately and would not be considered important to the citizens of this world, as the government would have total control over their lives through harsh indoctrination and total removal from outside concepts and words.

At that rate it would be required that at least half the population be aware of sex and could not be altered. Or on the other hand a percentage of people would be required to keep secret.

Here's another question I haven’t seen voiced.

Animals, would it be practical? or even possible to condition them too? Too prevent people questioning why they either come out of a lab as adults or children, and dont have parents?

as the government would have total control over their lives through harsh indoctrination and total removal from outside concepts and words.

That the complete opposite of the free thinking your talking about.

Your also going to have to remove, fear, and many human defence mechanisms. Humans would have to have no impulses for it to work, in turn that would eradicate the ability to think freely with expression again causing the complete opposite of your original goal.

Also sounds like something I heard off of the game "Half Life 2" in-fact a character in that game has a similar idea base.

Its an interesting theory but, its most likely not possible, certainly unpractical and undoubtedly a step back. I haven’t even gone into the religious or political implications but I'll leave that for now. Give it some more thought .

Vorta

Originally posted by Raideur
The purpose is the eradication of sex and the establishment of a society free of primative desires and promoting the individual to be remembered by doing something great or helpful to the society. Without basic urges one is freed to higher thinking.

BTW, this is perfectly equal for both genders, as they are raised the same way, with the same supressive conditioning but as far as they see it, they are people, and not females or males.

Doing something great or helpful to the society and supressive conditioning are two completely incompatible things.

I rather be horny little savage than a helpfull Borg Drone.

Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
Actually, this can happen.

Yes thats why I mentioned it.

Also, in order to keep this sexless society, or rather keep the sexes unaware of one another and segregated, you'd have to have at least one group who is very much aware and who enforces the segregation.

Are we all agreed that the different genders, with proper conditioning, could effectively live without every ever coming into contact with the other gender, and thus have no concept of htem in any form?

If so, my question is answered as a yes, there is a way to keep people happy and in control.

This is the craziest thing I ever heard of, except for that guy who thinks we humans should engineer our own extinction.

If this is the ideal situation, in your mind, how about getting yourself sent to prison for life, for some non-violent crime, of course, or maybe move to the Castro district, or perhaps the Village. It wouldn't be perfect, of course, but you wouldn't have to wait for the rest of humanity to catch up with you.

[edit on 2005/12/9 by GradyPhilpott]

To answer your question is this possible? Yes, I think it is possible to some extent, to separate sexes and to have to totally separate societies. However, what happens when these future people with plenty of time for thinking on their hands think to themselves, hmmm what are these wierd protrusions or orifices on my body used for? Sure you can explain the reproductive organs away as some vestige of evolution or something, but now you are completely LYING about a whole field of scientific thought and knowledge. How is that going to make the world a better place?

I much prefer the solution of allowing those who so choose the option of refraining from sex. There are many religious institutions, cults, and just ugly virgins who do not have sex. I would submit to you that the contribution from these minds that are freed for "higher purposes" do not particularly have the kind of noble impact on mankind you suggest they would.

But while we're at it, can we implant a gem into everyone's hand at birth that changes from green to yellow and eventually red as you age. Noone should live past say 45, that way we only have young and fresh brains doing all of this beneficial thinking for mankind. Doh, here comes the sandman, gotta run....

No way this would work.

Haven't you ever seen any Summer Camp type movies? If the boys camp even learns that there's a girl's camp down the river, no force on Earth will stop them from infiltrating, stealing underwear, etc.

Human nature would have to be altered. Yes the Y chromosome seems irrelevant, but I'm guessing the last representatives of it (last men on Earth i.e. Charlton Heston as Omega Man) will not go quietly.

I read a book from an alien experiencer (Krapf) where he says some alien civilizations have collectively decided to abandon gender altogether. It's just he/she or whatever. That seems more plausible than gender-segregation, but any such change would only come after massive warfare and social realignment, IMO.

There's lots of ways to rebuild society from a different type of core lifestyle, but usually all such theories would realistically require a wrecking of society first. It wouldn't happen painlessly because it's not the sort of thing one can put to a vote.

Originally posted by Raideur
Are we all agreed that the different genders, with proper conditioning, could effectively live without every ever coming into contact with the other gender, and thus have no concept of htem in any form?

This sounds like one of the worst dystopian nightmares I can imagine - why the hell would we want to do this??? To have "higher thoughts"? What are they exactly and why are they good?

A state where I can have initmate relationships with the opposite sex, or a facist state where I can stand around with a load of other blokes having "higher thoughts"....hmm which shall I go for....?

Enforced single gender communities already exist anyway - they are called prisons. Yay, bring bring em on!

If so, my question is answered as a yes, there is a way to keep people happy and in control.

Why would everyone become happy all of a sudden because they couldn't have sex and they would not be allowed to come into contact with half the world's population?

This smacks of "1984" and "Brave New World" to me. In 1984 it's mentioned that they were working on abolishing the orgasm and just conceiving children through artsem (Newspeak for guess what).

Must of missed that part....better read it again, but its a really wonderful book. Full of excellent ideas...

"Brave New World" is not the same as "1984", in regard to sexuality. Huxley in BNW paints a hedonistic future for each class with orgiastic rituals [Complete with mantra-like chanting of phrases "orgie-porgy" and so on] which become "church sunday" for the Overmen and women of the future. In the book only the upper class has orgies as church, but one presumes the lower working castes (fetuses manufatured "bottled" and "decanted" in factories, where gender alteration would be easy) would have similar sex-based worship.

Sex-church would make humans utterly docile. Huxley saw this clearly. On a conspiratorial level, the human truth of sex-worship is known, but not revealed. I believe that if an "antichrist" plan is ever offered to humanity it will include cheap pharmaceuticals and lots of sex, packaged as "one's duty to mankind"... It would work, I believe. Enough humans would go for it to persecute (execute) the rest. After a harsh and quick purge, remaining zealots Muslims, Christians and prudes would be free to perform rituals and celibacy, unspoken, as gays live today.

Yes, I could see this sex/drug/church future keeping mankind in very uniform control. Sure there'd be suicide bombers occasionally from undetermined pockets of resitance, but people will give up a lot for good sex. In BNW people are popping prozac/ecstacy/viagra and basically working/screwing their lives away. It's a comment on future-man versus primitive-man. When a species evolves, they must also become divorced from their natural roots. Point is this: There's no desire to merge the genders because the sex drive makes people better tools. Really the church of today is an obstacle to what must happen if human nature is to take it's course. This is what Nietzsche meant.

Really we're only a shadow away from such a world. The question is if someone would use the global arsenal to prevent an "antichrist" of any kind from taking over in such a way. In any case, it'd be just too damn hard to eradicate gender unless men were killed off by some gene-virus or something.

I saw a movie on sci-fi called "the [white?] Bomb" or something, where all men were removed from the planet in this way. I'd like to know if anyone else saw this thing on tv because I can't find anything on it via Internet.


[edit on 11-12-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by yanchek
I rather be horny little savage than a helpfull Borg Drone.

ROFL! Yeah, I agree. And I don't think living with women makes us savage, really. A mature rational individual knows how to behave and doesn't think anything deragatory about the female gender. (and vice versa) Why police us into being apart? It's not necessary and it's rather controlling in my opinion..

smallpeeps, thats is exactly why I liked 1984 better, they didnt use sex, they eliminated it as a motivating factor. And totally psychologically too.

Hmm, that would seem kind of tough to get rid of instincts and for no leaks or anything to get out? Plus, what would seperate them? Put one gender on another planet? And why would they do this, you never explained, do you think it would make for a more civilized society?

Originally posted by Raideur
realrepublican, the people in this society would be raised from birth in a controlled world

Haven't the soviets, chinese, north koreans and a few other communist regimes tried things like this. Didn't seem like many of the people living in those places ever thought it was a great idea to live in a "controlled world".

Living in freedom is what humans (all animals?) seek, not being controlled to that level of mental and bodily function. Speaking of that, why not do something more useful like solving the waste problems of the world by breeding people and other animals that don't eliminate waste outside their bodies?

As a somewhat parallel thought. Aren't the chinese now having problems due to so many years of "culling" female infants to the point where there's such an over-abundance of males that many have to either give up on the idea of ever getting married or they have to resort to marrying sisters and other close relatives? I'm looking for a link on this.

Overall, IMO this thread's premise is nothing more than an example of socialism gone over the edge. There's a group of people somewhere that somehow know what's best for us all and have no shortage of ideas to fix all of mankind's ills that they'd love to try out on the rest of us. Of course while we were being experimented on, they'd still be having a good old time having sex, drinking, etc.


[edit on 12/13/2005 by centurion1211]

Socialism gone over the edge...

Not qutei what I'd use to explain it, but your perfectly correct, this would just be to answer my personal question. Too bad I cannot impliment it.