Why not make Moble Suits?

i see what texmiller is on about. Now i don't think a ten story death machine would be practical. However an anime i watched once called appleseed or something, the police used mechs in that. These mechs were like mobile armored suits about 8 to 10 feet tall something around that scale could work.

I don't think they would replace tanks but more like upgrade infantry
imagine it in some warzone, a load of local militia are expecting US or UK troops. What they get is a squad of about twenty 10 feet tall armored troops.

Another good example of this is the starcraft games.

And one last thing hydraulics could work they are certainly fast enough, its just a case of fluidity they can be jerky.

Originally posted by deltaboy


yep i love that movie. awesome graphics. yeah the way to go in starting our first mech of some kind would be the exo skeleton. then to move on to giant mobile suits. i would prefer small ones though like wanzers from front mission 4 game (they are about 20 ft tall, i dont want 50 or 100 ft tall giant monsters that can be hit easily in Mechwarriors). or armored core.

Somehow I always have this feeling that Mechs like those are walking metallic coffins for those piloting them....

Ok, we have the mech and the weapons. Now we need to think about how to keep the pilot alive.

Okay since we have what we need on the outside lets think of how we can keep the pilot alive. Agreed?! okay agreed.

One way would be that when he pilot hooks up to the com network through that neck implants it could also double as a medical monitoring system.
Another idea would be that the ejection system would drop the pilot at least 1ft from the ground, when sensoring major damage.

Armor is another possiblity that could really improve servivaliblity of the pilot. Right now the UK has a tank that has armor on it that can with stand armor percing rounds. Much to the suprise of most this armor is a compound mixture unknown to the West military.

Instant medic: there could be an onboard computer/medic robot.
Better yet have an onboard nanotechnology medics. Small robot capible of reconstructing skin, tissue, bone.

Or one of the most obivous could be remote controled mechs. Which is already a reality. Think of 8 to 10ft robot death machines walking towards the enemy. Enemy thinking these guys are dead, not knowing that all the while the pilots for the mechs are miles away.

Interesting huh!

hi again as texmiller is saying about neural interface technology. i,ve seen the opposite technology where a professor of a japanese university has a remote control mouse. the mouse had a micro electrode in the top of its head connected to its brain. The professor could tell the mouse to move forward, backward, left and right from a laptop. This is obviously useless for people and mechs but its shows that humans can implant computer technology into a living creature and interface with it. this is a step in the right direction

The whole idea of infantry is that they can take cover ahd fire and maneuver, which is impossible with a rigid armored suit, if you deny mobility, you better have enough armor to stop very deadly rounds.

Originally posted by texmiller


Armor is another possiblity that could really improve servivaliblity of the pilot. Right now the UK has a tank that has armor on it that can with stand armor percing rounds. Much to the suprise of most this armor is a compound mixture unknown to the West military.

UK and US tanks which use simliar armour are tipping the scales at about 70 tons and are a fraction of the size of some Mechs. Large mechs with that type of armour would have to be easily in 200-300 ton range.

That would pretty much make it impossible to deploy them by air. Which means slow ships or trains for transport. In warfare now the trend is to make forces highly deployable. Future designs I have seen for replacements of modern MBT have been much smaller about 30 tons and half the height.

Carbon nanotube armour could make them much lighter though. Some scientist say it will be 50-100 times stronger then steel and able to withstand heat like diamond.

Carbon nanotube armour could make them much lighter though. Some scientist say it will be 50-100 times stronger then steel and able to withstand heat like diamond.


THAT is what Iam talking about. I couldn't remember the name,sorry. Thank you.

Originally posted by texmiller
THAT is what Iam talking about. I couldn't remember the name,sorry. Thank you.

Those stuff are expensive nowadays, a few grams can easily cost a few hundred US.

Multi-million dollar mechs are nice and all until somebody takes it down with a $10 RPG.

The problem with a mech would be that it's basically limited to the same terrain as a modern tank or IFV. And in terms of efficency, and target profile, the tanks reign supreme over a mech for those purposes.

But if a mech was made I'd suggest a UAV type set up. A remote controlled mech. Simply put, a pilot will take up a lot of space, so remote control would be the way to go. That and it won't kill your pilot when somebody pops up behind him with an RPG.

Originally posted by Humster

Originally posted by texmiller
THAT is what Iam talking about. I couldn't remember the name,sorry. Thank you.

Those stuff are expensive nowadays, a few grams can easily cost a few hundred US.

Well, if our government today can spend the trillions on a war, then I think we can do this as well.

On the remote control:
I have said that already and would help out on the quality and mobility for the power source to have room.

On Tank vs Mech:
I can understand that the tank might have an advantage over a Mech. But the Mechs that we are talking about are only 8 to 10ft high. So, we would still need the tanks of course. With the mechs being that size an RPG would have no effect on it at all. With the armor and maneuverability it could easy dodge a RPG. Espeacilly with the tracking systems that the military have now. Besides you have to have good aim with those and if I saw a 8 to 10ft soilder robot with a Gatlin gun hammering away at me I wouldn't even think twice to poke my head up let alone shoulder it and then fire.
Plus, the armor is way superior to that of a RPG. It would be like shooting a 22cal at a tank.

Ok, the full size mech idea seems to be as impossible as it is unecessary as of now. So lets outline a technology that (probably) reasonably could be perfected within 10 years from now.

We have a powered exoskeleton that applies enough power to take the burden of equipment carrying from the operator. It doesnt have to give him/her super-strength above that, just enough so that he could easily wrestle an enemy down or handle light obstacles (e.g. a door, a large crate) without problems. This suit would also not need as excessive a power supply as a high-strength suit would need. Best guess at the moment would be a fuel cell that can provide about 6 continuous hours of medium activity without refill. Main obstacle would be to create a suit that does not inhibit movement speed significantly, or even increase it if possible.

The suit should be no more larger than 115% of a normal soldier carrying full equipment, because its main purpose would be close quarter / against infantry assault. It is not meant to be a man-size MBT. Combined with the operators weigh it shouldnt be heavier than a piano, so it wont be in danger of cracking house floors. It needs armour that can withstand grenade shrapnel at 5+ m and common highpower bullets like 7.62mm NATO AP in the vital areas, maybe less elsewhere. The armour should consist of easily detachable panels for ease of access to underlying parts and quick repair of damaged panels in the field.

The operator would wear a full covering sensoric suit, possibly with built-in capillar "air-conditioning" for use in hot/cold environments and genmerally to cool the body of the operator. The sensors in the suit would be used a. for detection of penetration and health monitoring; b. for the above mentioned bio-manipulative main suit control. Both technologies are existent, the cooling suit and health/penetration monitoring in space suits, and the bio-manipulation has been in development for a long time now for controlling robots and virtual reality applications ("VR gloves").

Sensoric feedback to the operator would consist of either a visor section in the helmet or a fully artificial environmental depiction via high-resolution displays in the helmet. At least it should have night vision with a quality similar or above the usual infantry helmet mounted NVGs, maybe some sort of downscaled FLIR could be possible, not sure about that. But since the reliable viewing distance would not have to exceed 2-3 kms, I dont think its impossible. And by marking all suits with easily recognizable IR signatures that would make threat identification even easier. With fully artificial environmental depiction as described above it could even be possible to process image information, like automatically indicating origins of muzzle flashes, loud noises or eye protection of very bright light sources like flashbangs and own and enemy muzzle flashs. Integrated zooming would also be possible that way.

Under all conditions a limited HUD technology would be implemented with a compass and vital suit integrity details, possibly a positional indicator of squadmates and designated threats. A problem could be hearing, but this could somewhat be solved via a sound processor and sophisticated surround sound speakers, or even retractable ear covers (regrettably somewhat compromising armour protection). Main suit functions could be arrived by an optical interface with eye tracking and voice commands, less vital functions could be integrated into a wrist interface.

Armament would consist of 2 standard weapons, built into the arm covers and ready-to-fire at any time: a taser of at least 10m effective range, and a small low-caliber, low-recoil firearm with magazine feeding parallel to the forearm, maybe in the lines of a FN P90 or, more sophisticated, a caseless carbine like a small HK G11. These would be instantly fird via pointing the respective forearms in the right direction and doing an unusual finger gesture. One could think of the "heavy-metal-devil-horns" gesture to trigger the shooting (hey, whatever works for Spiderman cant be bad for us, hmm?)

Main armament would be interchangeable, but in an assault situation most probably be a select-fire MG with either high rate of fire like a MG34 (1200 RPM) or a down-scaled gatling gun with no more than 3 barrels (with comparable ROF, multiple barrels only to prevent overheating - we want to defeat the enemy, not bring the house down on him ). Vital would be the possibility to acurrately fire single shots at 500+ m. The weapons would either have grips customized to fit the suit´s hands, or have a special connector to the hip with grip and fire controls on top of the weapon; maybe comparable to current handycam gear. Though the mobility in that case would be restricted, it would be easier to stabilize the full-auto firing.

In any case all the weapons would have laser illuminators along their barrel axis, and the HUD would project a crosshair into the visor/display that accurately shows the point of aiming. With attached small cameras whose pictures would also be projected in the sight of the operator full corner-firing and surveillance abilities would be possible. All possible weapons would have a rugged datalink built into the grip or hip connector that would accurately transmit ammuntion capacity and weapon temperature to the HUD. Also, every time a shot is fired an automatic impulse would be sent to the motors which would induce automatic counter-force against the recoil. Ammunition feed to the main armament would be via a flexible cartridge channel from the backpack as used ATM with Gatling guns on helicopters (or seen on Jesse Ventura in "Predator"... I know, I know, horrid example...) . Magazines for the taser and forearm built-in gun would be carried with magnetic clamps on the thighs, along with grenades or other non-lethal equipment.

+++++++

Phew, that was a lot to write, but fun to think of the IMO realistic possibilities. Again, this would not create the uber-soldier, immortal and deadly under all conditions, but I think it would boost the effectiveness of specialized infantry or even LE officers in an assault situation. In any case the technology would not be suited for prolonged firefights because of the power problem. But hey, thats what this is all about; to prevent hour-long engagements from fixed positions.

Most of the technologies I described here are either already available or under heavy research right now AFAIK. But lets not forget that all this would only be possible if a working and reliable exoskeleton and power supply technique would be perfected. Feel free to add comments or point out mistakes of mine.

[edit on 30/9/2005 by Lonestar24]

Nice post. One thing I would consider important would be to either have the suit be light enough to be worn unpowered (you wouldn't be running, but to at least be mobile), or have certain parts removable in a combat situation (ie. Ammo, extra armor, etc.) to lower weight in case of a power failure. Everything should probably weigh no more than 100 lbs at full weight, so that it would be possible to run while wearing the suit.

Other than that, I don't know if a minigun would be necessary. I would have a choice between a large caliber rifle (somewhat larger than nato 7.62, but not .50 cal) for long range and/or anti light armor, a shotgun for close range and a m249 or similar as the standard weapon. Looks pretty good overall though.

If you have on enough armor to stop a lead ball 7.62 AK round, let alone a steel ball 7.62 or AP, you will not be very mobile and will be the subject of .50 cal rounds, which are very deadly to even light APCs.

Theres always a step up in firepower that will defeat your armor, and unless you have alot of mobility in that multi thousand dollar suit, the enemy will find a cost effective way to cut you down with even outdated weapons. The Browning .50 and NVST MG.s being able to defeat even 10mm solid steel.

Originally posted by cyberdude78


But if a mech was made I'd suggest a UAV type set up. A remote controlled mech. Simply put, a pilot will take up a lot of space, so remote control would be the way to go. That and it won't kill your pilot when somebody pops up behind him with an RPG.

A good suggestion unmanned set ups would have many advantages. Saving space like you mentioned, no need for any type of N.B.C protection or any life support or climate control.

It would also be much better to hear about six unmanned mechs getting destroyed in a ambush then six 18 year old kids on the news.

Originally posted by Raideur
If you have on enough armor to stop a lead ball 7.62 AK round, let alone a steel ball 7.62 or AP, you will not be very mobile and will be the subject of .50 cal rounds, which are very deadly to even light APCs.

The point of a suit like this would be that it would be highly mobile and heavily armored. Ideally it would be able to stop 7.62 NATO, and anything too heavy like a browning M2 would be too heavy for terrorists to carry around under their robes. I think it would be well suited to the type of combat we are seeing now.

Theres always a step up in firepower that will defeat your armor, and unless you have alot of mobility in that multi thousand dollar suit, the enemy will find a cost effective way to cut you down with even outdated weapons. The Browning .50 and NVST MG.s being able to defeat even 10mm solid steel.

Always true. Even a multi million dollar tank can be destroyed with a thousand dollars worth of explosives.

Okay that sounds good and I just wanted to add if you go to google and put in the search " real mechs " you get this. The Japanese are ahead us. Its slow progress but its non the less progress in the right direction.

Actual walking mech. Click link and there is a sub link to the realtime player of the mech walking.

This mech is a actual robot. Look and see what the bloggers say about it. Its some good fun but they its pretty cheap only 550,000.00 for it with out
weapons.



Enjoy guys and gals. Let me know what you think.


I started laughing at the walking one because of how unusual it is to see. Its almost doing the moon walk when it is moving.



[edit on 3-10-2005 by texmiller]

The "walking mech" is not walking. It is sort of skating, at all times both feet are on the ground and the weight of the torso is kept in balance. Ok, given the size of the thing that is admirable, but technically its an absolute dead-end. Unless a big bi-pedal robot cant stand on one foot, it cant walk (I think Asimo can, but we´re talking about tons of material on one foot here).

The second link seems to be a robotic torso on tracks, not on legs. And the whole robot that is linked later on in the comments is a CGI fake. The "Tracking test" for example is kind of ridiculous.

Yeah well, I know the walking mech isn't the best example but its one that has to have some credit on someone trying to make one. I know it does the moonwalk but just think if the guy had the money to put liquid shock absorbers and compressed hydrolics it might take baby steps.

The other one in the Japanese emergancy robot is real. I know that its on tank dreads but it put forth the effort of thinking "what if" instead of cutting into steel to save people we but two gatlin guns on each side and a hellfire missle pack on the upper right side.

That would make for a pretty good killing machine.

Originally posted by Lonestar24
. Unless a big bi-pedal robot cant stand on one foot, it cant walk (I think Asimo can.

Asimo can indeed do that it, the newest model can even jump all be it only about a inch but it can still jump.

The bi-pedal robots comming out of Japan and Korea right now are really the cutting edge of this tech.

Some of the smaller ''Robo-one'' robots are also very impressive walkers, able to do hand stands, karate kicks and many more impressive moves.

robo-one

You can even buy these little guys in kit form now for a few thousands bucks.

Lack of technology to make them useful in combat. Today they will be a burden instead of a solution. I wish someday they will look like these...

Technoman