Iraq: Brit Soldiers Dressed As Arabs In car Packed With Explosives Captured

First of all, where did I say it WASN'T a riot? Secondly, I said this is the perfect situation for the militia to take advantage of. If it's a last minute type of thing then they could very easily have just grabbed whatever they had at hand, and didn't have guns handy. Didn't you say they wanted to "fight honorably"? Then they would know that if they used guns then the crowd would be gunned down by the other troops. Not that I agree with you on that, but hey, I suppose anything is possible.

I never said that the British troops were right to be wearing civilian clothes and doing what they did. I didn't say they were evil either, OR that the militia is evil. However, if you were in the militia and had something like this drop into your lap you would be stupid to not take advantage of it, and if you had to put on civilian clothes, then why wouldn't you?

If you're going to quote what I say at least get it right and stop putting words into my mouth. And for the record, I'm not ashamed in the least. I'm simply doing the right thing and waiting to hear all the details tha come out of this story instead of screaming, "LOOK! See how evil they are!"

[edit on 20-9-2005 by Zaphod58]

[edit on 20-9-2005 by Zaphod58]

So the car was packed with explosives was it, says who? An interior ministry source as reported by Xinhua.net. That's water-tight take, it to the bank stuff isn't it? Jeez. What, did they have a hand grenade with them? It doesn't make sense for the UK to be destabilising Iraq. The only winner in an Iraqi Civil war is going to be Iran.

Some intelligence guys in a car get in a jam with some Iraqi police who are in bed with the Mahdi army and try to shoot their way out of trouble, they are captured and, under the terms of the occupation, should be handed over to the British Army who would then investigate and prosecute. Those are the rules. The Iraqi Interior Ministry orders their release, the locals in Basra decide not to and instead these two soldiers are given over to local Shi'ite militia and end up plastered all over the media like they're a pair of hostages. The British Army is hardly going to leave two of its own swinging in the wind so they go get them.

The big story here is not two UK soldiers on an intelligence gathering mission getting in a jam and making a meal of it. It's that Basra is no longer responding to Iraqi central government commands. That the south is slipping out of Bagdad's control. That's the story.

And those tanks on fire aren't tanks. They're Warrior IFVs.

Originally posted by ryan25
my bad sorry i hadnt seen those pics yet ss

never mind, you should see the video.

thanks ss . could you post a link to the video i have only seen the bbc version

ryan

i'll try to find it for you.

ArchAngel

YOu hit the nail on the head. thankyou for being a sane voice in a world of madness.

Zaphod58

The riot thing was for ryan.

"I said this is the perfect situation for the militia to take advantage of"

"if you were in the militia and had something like this drop into your lap you would be stupid to not take advantage of it"

Perhaps, THAT IS , IF they had the british and american mentality, of taking advantage , making false flag operations.

But they don't think like you, and maybe they are foolish, and "stupid not to take advantage" but atleast they fight honourably.

LIke i said, and as i have always said, since i started posting on this board.

THe iraqi resistance would never hurt the very people they are fighting and dying to protect.

I know, because i know the resistance, and i know people that know the resistance.

The resistance have nothing to do with the bombing of civilians, and they have nothing to do with the mythical zarqawi.

The enemy of all of us are behind these bombings,the Traitors governments of the british and the US.


Cilandak

it makes perfect sense for them to be destabilising iraq for the following reasons.

Divide and conquer - Get iraqies to start fighting each other instead of fighting the occupation. This will creat more opportunists vying for power, to collaborate with the occupiers.

Defame the Resistance- The US learned from vietnamn that a gorrilla army can only exist with a good civilian support base. These bombings are designed to get the iraqi people to distrust and dislike the iraqi resistance, and hence that would destroy the resistance.

Create a reason to stay - The brits and the US can now claim that they need to be in iraq longer to "protect the civilian population." ironically the people who they are killing.

From the horses mouth same day this all happened.

quote: UK may increase Iraq deployment
From correspondents in London
September 19, 2005
Britain said overnight it would, if necessary, increase the number of troops in Iraq as fears that the country is sliding towards civil war increase.

www.theaustralian.news.com.au...

They are building perminant bases, they need an excuse to stay as long as they want.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Divide and conquer - Get iraqies to start fighting each other instead of fighting the occupation. This will creat more opportunists vying for power, to collaborate with the occupiers.

Defame the Resistance- The US learned from vietnamn that a gorrilla army can only exist with a good civilian support base. These bombings are designed to get the iraqi people to distrust and dislike the iraqi resistance, and hence that would destroy the resistance.

Create a reason to stay - The brits and the US can now claim that they need to be in iraq longer to "protect the civilian population." ironically the people who they are killing.

Yep - I guess I was Right.

They actually Were Undercover.

And their Job was to create the Situation described in these Excellent 3 Points that Syrian Sister has made.



Maybe they were the members of Special Forces?

Like SAS?

Has anyone thought of that Possibility?

They probably have Missions like that - to go "Undercover".

I was Right - the two British Solders were Commandos:

BASRA, Iraq - In a major show of force, British soldiers used tanks to break down the walls of the central jail in this southern city late Monday and freed two Britons, allegedly undercover commandos, who had been arrested on charges of shooting two Iraqi policemen.

News Yahoo

And did you know that...

About 150 Iraqi prisoners also fled as British commandos stormed inside and rescued their comrades, said Aquil Jabbar.

Jolly Good Show Lads!

[edit on 20/9/05 by Souljah]

So you seriously believe that these people who think that they are fighting for their country, and to throw out the invaders would do whatever it took to get rid of them? They wouldn't try to overthrow what is, to their eyes, the illegal government that was set up, they wouldn't disguise themselves as civilians, they wouldn't do whatever they had to do to kill their enemies? You're living in a dream world if you think that. They're fighting for something they very strongly believe in, and when it comes to that, most people would do ANYTHING IT TOOK to win that fight. Look at almost any war with guerilla warfare. The guerillas were willing to kill anyone they thought was working with the enemy including their own people. Why would the Iraqi militia be any different?

And did anyone think that they were either on an intel gathering mission that went bad? or even were on a pass and wanted to blend in a little better with the crowd and not be soldiers, but something hapened? There are many other SIMPLE explanations for why they were dressed the way they were, and why they shot at the police officers.

[edit on 20-9-2005 by Zaphod58]

Syrian Sister, I would post a multitude of photos of dead Iraqi insurgents dressed in blue jeans, white Nikes, and a variety of coloured jackets (covering there ammunition pouches) if it wasn't against TOS to display such pictures.

I have also seen an Iraqi insurgent kneeling in the middle of the road aiming an RPG at Coalition forces (you cant see which country it was) who gets shot through the head. He was wearing a white shirt if I remember correctly. Definately no black.

I am on the fence a lot here. I see things both positive and abhorant from both sides. But in this instance, you shouldn't be too sure of yourself.

Originally posted by cargo
Syrian Sister, I would post a multitude of photos of dead Iraqi insurgents dressed in blue jeans, white Nikes, and a variety of coloured jackets (covering there ammunition pouches) if it wasn't against TOS to display such pictures.

I have also seen an Iraqi insurgent kneeling in the middle of the road aiming an RPG at Coalition forces (you cant see which country it was) who gets shot through the head. He was wearing a white shirt if I remember correctly. Definately no black.

I am on the fence a lot here. I see things both positive and abhorant from both sides. But in this instance, you shouldn't be too sure of yourself.

So - it's allright for British Soldiers dress as Arabs to mix among population, but it's not allright for the Iraqi Insurgents to do that?

I thought only "Terrorist Savages" use civilan clothing to mix among population?

Are you saying that British Soldiers are also "Terrorist Savages"?

That's the same Double Standard Rule as it is in Prison Camps, such as Abu Gharib:

It was NOT okey for Saddam to torture and rape and abuse prisoners - but it IS okey for the US to do that, since they are inprisoning nothing but "Terrorist Savages", right?

So, that's the Excuse used to Justify those Actions?

Hmmm, I wonder whats next...

If you are going off post, in an country where there are people that don't want you there, OF COURSE you're going to go out in civilian attire. Going out in uniform is like putting a giant neon sign over your head saying "SHOOT HERE". Not to mention the fact that they had probably been wearing their uniform for close to 24/7 and wanted to get out of it.

Even if it was an intel op, then yeah, it's ok for them to go out in civilian clothes, when it's not for the insurgents. The big difference is that they would be going out to gather information, where the insurgents are trying to blend in to set bombs to KILL PEOPLE. If the British troops were trying to plant a bomb to kill people then YES it WOULD be wrong. but everyone is jumping to conclusions before knowing most of the facts, and have decided that they know what happened.

Originally posted by cargo
Syrian Sister, I would post a multitude of photos of dead Iraqi insurgents dressed in blue jeans, white Nikes, and a variety of coloured jackets (covering there ammunition pouches) .

Excuse me, but i do belive i said the MEHDI army wears the black uniform.

And it was you who claimed the mehdi army where rioting, when it was clearly iraqi civilians.

THe north resistance's have many different factions, each with their own different marking for the uniform, be it a certain face mask, or a certian clothing item.

Yes i have no doubt alot of resistance of the north (not in the mehdi army) where blue jeans, i'm sorry that they don't have one leader ship that tells them what to where, and they don't have the money to produce good looking uniforms, but they still have some indicator that they are resistance, by the way they where their head scarf and the way they carry their ammo packs. Openly. I can show you photos if you wish. But Also sometimes you shoot civilians, and call them insurgents, and thats why you have photos of dead iraqies in civilian clothes.


Zaphod58

If you are going off post, in an country where there are people that don't want you there, OF COURSE you're going to go out in civilian attire

You do realise that makes them spies under the geneva convention. Especially since they dressed up as iraqies.
But i'm glad you admit the iraqies don't want you in iraq.


[edit on 20-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]

The claim was NOT that it was the militia rioting. It was that the militia was TAKING ADVANTAGE of the rioting to make a bad situation worse.

waa, waa, waa, pathetic!

These men were "arrested" for "murder", it is then up to the police to then hand over these men by law. The Iraqi authority even ordered the hand over of the men but were ignored and instead the soldiers were handed over to the local militia. Now, what the f*** do you expect the British to do? Allow their bravest to be tortured and eventualy executed? We need to show these savages whos boss, and that such actions will not be tolerated. We're still in charge over there at lets not forget that.

As for firing on the crowd of people throwing petrol bombs at you, i say fire away!

If these soldiers are found guilty of cold blooded murder then i hope they throw the book at them, as such actions can not be tolerated either. But at the end of the day i think you'll all agree that western justice is far more appropriate than any Islamic mickey mouse militia crap.

Actually the claim made by jsobecky, was that the mehdi army was rioting, i suggest you re-read it.


quoting jsobecky "
Two British armored vehicles come under attack, supposedly by followers of Muqtada Al Sadr. "

posted on 19-9-2005 at 05:16 PM Post Number: 1696320 (post id: 1718213)


Orias.

You'll belive the two men where "handed over to militia" , however you deny that they where in civilian garb, fired at civilians and iraqi puppet police, perhaps killing one, and had a car laden with explosives? Even after iraqi officials, those who iraqies who are meant to be pro-american, and have nothing to benefit from saying it, are saying these things. Even after the photographs and images of the spies in civilian clothes, who where wearing long beards inorder to look more arab have come out.

Why do you only belive what the US military says,? Didn't they lie about the WMD's from the very begining? Who has never lied to you? Belive them.

----------------------

The US claim iraq is a sovereign nation, and yet the british and americans have complete diplomatic immunity. They can kill whomever they want, no consequence.



[edit on 20-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]

Saying that the armored vehicles comes under attack by followers of al Sadr is NOT saying the entire riot was by the militia. It says that the ones that threw the molotav cocktails were from the militia.

Also, I'm not sure where you got those pictures, or how long they'll be available.. because every news source I've seen show's these guys' faces blurred at the request of the MoD.. I copied both pictures and I'll upload them to ATS if the pics get taken down..

There's a look at the two men from a slightly different angle:
Pix
So it seems that the pictures are being shown widely.

I haven't seen any updates of the explosives reported by the Chinese link. It would seem that the anti-coalition crowd would be chomping at the bit to get pictures of those into the media, if they did exist.

Originally posted by Orias
waa, waa, waa, pathetic!

These men were "arrested" for "murder", it is then up to the police to then hand over these men by law. The Iraqi authority even ordered the hand over of the men but were ignored and instead the soldiers were handed over to the local militia. Now, what the f*** do you expect the British to do? Allow their bravest to be tortured and eventualy executed? We need to show these savages whos boss, and that such actions will not be tolerated. We're still in charge over there at lets not forget that.

Those 'savages' are the people we went over there to liberate (after the WMD thing), remember?

Zaphod58

actually it is, saying, that those vehicles where burned by followers of moqtada, is the same as saying those vehicles wher burned by the mehdi army.
because followers of moqtada = mehdi army.

Why oh why would the mehdi army throw molotov cocktails, when they have RPG's at their disposal?

Molotov cocktails is a weapon to the weaponless.

Quiet Soul

Understood my friend, as for the photo graphs, i'm quick on my heels when it comes to news on iraq. In this game, you've gotta be.

the pictures have already been leeked on the net, but most of the sources now are bluring their faces.

as you can see jsobecky had to link to al jazeera to get the images.



Valhal

There is no way to explain or excuse this.

I don't kow how Britain specifically, or any occupying force in general, can talk their way out of this, or even survive this.

This is the end.

I too still belive this, but they sure are trying hard. At first they where flustared and had no controll over the media.

Now looking at how the coverups are coming, and how the media is changing tune, the media are now hiding the fact the spies where dressed as iraqi civilians.

Even though the photos of them suggest otherwise. (growing beards to look more iraqi ect)

How far will this story change, who is to know.

But the important thing is, That you don't doubt in your mind. What has happened today. If you can do that, then it truly is the end .



WEEKS AGO FROM SOCIALIST FACTIONS OF THE IRAQI RESISTANCE

The following is a bad machine translation of a statement made by the
communist resistance of iraq, sighting that the CIA is behind attacks
against civilians.

Iraqi Communists assure that CIA is behind the indiscriminate attacks

Rebelion
The Union of the Iraqian people, organization who proclaims her opposition
to the American military occupation, has accused the Central Agency of
Intelligence (CIA) of the United States to be behind the attacks in Iraq
To thus he has affirmed today in press conference in the Spanish city of
Cordova the spokesman it of the Union of the Iraqian People.....

www.rebelion.org...

[edit on 20-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]

Those 'savages' are the people we went over there to liberate (after the WMD thing), remember?

Nah, we went there to steal their oil and I suppose we could liberate them in the process. But from what we've seen happen in the last 24 hours maybe it would be best to leave them be and concentrate on Athganistan.

Hold on. Before everyone mans the life-boats, let's look at the whole story. Just as the British commandos were out of uniform, has anyone considered the possibility that the police were also out of uniform? Let's examine this article from earlier this year that tells us about the level of corruption in the Basara police forces.



Making a statement that you can only trust 25% of your employees says a lot. Most likely the "police" that were shot by the British commandos were either corrupt or imposters to begin with. No real loss there. This is simply a case of a special operation gone bad. Look for more police in Basara to get the axe soon until the force is made up of one that is actually loyal to the Iraqi government.