Aurora. Yes!

Yeah.. I know there's only about 5000000 threads on Aurora.. But I just had to tell this..

I have a colleague at work who also works full time for Northrop Grumman, as a software writer, He and I were speaking and I asked him if he knew anything about who was developing the Aurora project.. He said and I quote "That's not us, that's Lockheed Martin" And with a huge beaming smile I asked "So it does exsits".. To make a long story short.. I am told it looks like a YF-21, If that makes any sense, It is running into some funding problems, but does travel at speeds higher than Mach 9, I also confirmed that it is being tested and has been flown, but as I said is running into some financial problems of late.

Now I know what you're all thinking.. I'm being lied to.. Umm.. I doubt it.. I've known this man many years and trust what he says, he's a good friend and a trusted person. Why would he tell me this? because he can? It's not his project.. And yes has the clearance..

Please dont come down too hard on me over this.. I believe what I was told to be true and correct and I'll provide as much information as I can about it.. He also hinted that another aircraft project is nearing the end of it's test flights.. Something that looks like a triangle..

good story, ox. see if you can get any further info on the triangles...i'd be interested!!!!

The Aurora is a Reconnaisance craft built by the Lockheed Martin "Skunk Works" Facilities. It is supposedly capable of Mach 4- Mach 6 travel using a form of Pulse detonation or Hyperjet engine.

And what's a YF-21? The same YF-21 Valkyrie of the Macross Plus Saga?

Other than that, I haven't fund anything else on a "YF-21."

Plus, the YF-21 looks nothing like a triangle, nor would look like it can do more than mach 2.5.

And "That's not us, that's Lockheed Martin" does not mean it exists at all. And what would a software write know about Super Top secret projects? Well publicly, a former Lockheed Martin engineer that was involved with the Skunk Works projects has said that he believed in the Aurora and that at some point it existed, but was put out of commission because of economics. And how can confirm anything you said? By leaking official Classified information, you not only put yourself in danger, but also your friend, how do you know this is monitored by the CIA, or some other form of Survelliance Agency?

It was a nice story, but alot of information circulates you know? It is our job, to make sure that what is going down, and what is being put publicly is trustable or not. I'm not calling you a lier or anything, I believe that your friend told you this, I wouldn't know for sure, but I just have my doubts you know? Trust me, people will always have their doubts, so expect critism like mine.

Once again, good story, but I still have my doubts.

Shattered OUT...

He and I were speaking and I asked him if he knew anything about who was developing the Aurora project.. He said and I quote "That's not us, that's Lockheed Martin"

So this guy claims that the Aurora is being built by another company and that makes it valid? What if he'd said, "that's not us, it's Boeing"? How does someone telling you that another company builds something make him a trusted source?

Inasmuch as you have to show need-to-know (as well as the requisite clearance) to find out about classified projects, the fact that if this airplane were built by lockmart means that he doesn't have a need to know, so that in itself makes him and his fish story suspect.

I am told it looks like a YF-21, If that makes any sense, It is running into some funding problems, but does travel at speeds higher than Mach 9, I also confirmed that it is being tested and has been flown, but as I said is running into some financial problems of late.

And if your friend the software writer told you that, that means he's either lying or a felon, since it's a felony to discuss classified material with anyone who is not cleared to talk about it -- including other people who have the requisite clearance.

Now I know what you're all thinking.. I'm being lied to.. Umm..

Yes. That is exactly what I am thinking.

I doubt it.. I've known this man many years and trust what he says, he's a good friend and a trusted person.

A trusted person? He's a criminal! He is breaking some very serious laws.

Why would he tell me this?

If this conversation actually took place, he's telling you this to impress you.

because he can?

No. He can't. If this aircraft exists and he is telling you real information, then he is breaking the law.

It's not his project.. And yes has the clearance..

That's irrelevant. If he is not invoved in the project, then he doesn't have a need to know, which means he wouldn't have the information anyway. And whether or not he has a clearance doesn't mean squat.

And if someone gave him classified information, by not reporting that person, he's already breaking the law.

And by passing along classified information to someone else like you, whether or not you have a clearance, he is also breaking the law.

And if you are in possesion of information which you know to be classified and improperly transmitted and you do not report this felony, then you are breaking the law, too.

I'll provide as much information as I can about it..

Okay, so now you admit that you are going to pass along classified information illegally as well?

B-O-G-U-S.

[edit on 14-9-2005 by Off_The_Street]

Well its a very interesting article, but unfortunately there is NO way to prove the truth of that. Let us consider what happens if this is the truth, or if it is false.

False: Your friend told you a lie. People who believed you are wrong.
True: We have real information about the Aurora, and have effectively proven its existance.

The thing is that either of these things will only take place if this idea is proven fact or fallacy. Nothing really happens if its a lie except whoever believes it is wrong. If its TRUE however then its a big deal.

I'm gonna opt that its true. I'm not gonna go fanatic and defend the idea with my life. But I am gonna pay some attention to the idea. The information isn't too far off our original ideas and nothing happens if I'm wrong.

Wow OTS, thank you so much, now I won't look like the bad person for saying "I'm sorry, but I just don't believe you."

Although, I did warn of this kind of critizism.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by Ox
I have a colleague at work who also works full time for Northrop Grumman, as a software writer, He and I were speaking and I asked him if he knew anything about who was developing the Aurora project.. He said and I quote "That's not us, that's Lockheed Martin"

And he knows this how?

I am told it looks like a YF-21, If that makes any sense, It is running into some funding problems, but does travel at speeds higher than Mach 9, I also confirmed that it is being tested and has been flown, but as I said is running into some financial problems of late.

So you're friend has Access to a Special Access Program that has NOTHING to do with his work or even his employer? Horse Puckey Come on, you know better then that. You are telling us he knows the technical details of this project. What, is he some kind of a Spy? If he's Spying on Classified programs, he's breaking the law and belongs in prison!

Now I know what you're all thinking.. I'm being lied to.. Umm.. I doubt it.. I've known this man many years and trust what he says, he's a good friend and a trusted person. Why would he tell me this? because he can? It's not his project.. And yes has the clearance..

Your good, you got 1/2 of it right! Either you are being lied to, or you are lying to us (I really hope this isn't the case)! Come on, I am the Director of Counter-Ignorance, you didn't really think we would get fooled this easily, did you? Finding the lies is my mission here at ATS. Sorry, but this one was kind of obvious!

You said:

It's not his project.. And yes has the clearance..

Aroura, is a Special Access Program, so NO he doesn't! By definition, a Special Access Program means that everyone who works on that program needs to go through a special clearance process and get a special badge for that paticular program. If he is not directly working on the program at this time, he would not have clearance.

Please dont come down too hard on me over this.. I believe what I was told to be true and correct and I'll provide as much information as I can about it.. He also hinted that another aircraft project is nearing the end of it's test flights.. Something that looks like a triangle..

Well, sorry to say it, but you kind of set yourself up for this! Next time you find something like this, do your homework and dig a little deeper before you run to ATS with your Big find. Nothing personal, but when you do stuff like this, you come across to the group as being very gullible, and nievie. That really hurts your credibility with the group. If you really get stuck, come and ask someone to help you check it out, but don't go posting threads as if you have something solid to share. If you had started your post with something like:

I heard a strange stroy about Aroura, could this be true?

You sound more believeable, because everyone gets confused or hears inaccurate stories some time. I just had a thread where I asked if anyone knew about a Secret Base in Arizona. I didn't have enough background information to prove the story to be true, so I ended by asking if anyone knew anything. When you don't have proof, you're better off questioning you own story and letting others try to help fill in the blanks.

Always get as much background as you can on your own, then come and ask for help if you need it. Tip: The ATS Archives are a great place to do background research, epecially the Research Fourm. Only Scholars can post there, but ALL Members can read the information kept there!

Tim

Mod Edit: Removed profanity

[edit on 9/23/05 by FredT]

I see this all day long. People with clearances working at DoD contractor facilities who love to "bs" their friends and co-workers about supposedly "Top Secret" projects that they have intimate knowledge about. A quick wink and a brief smile later, and the unindoctrinated person with no knowledge of classified programs will fall hook, line, and sinker. People do it to inflate their own egos, make themselves look more important than they really are, or sometimes even just to make a questioning busy-body go away.

IF there is a hypersonic recce aircraft, operational or functioning testbed, in the government inventory, it is undoubtedly controlled as a Special Access Program. Joe Schmuck the software engineer would not know anything about it unless he was read onto the project and had signed the appropriate non-disclosure agreements. If he was accessed, he would know better than to run his mouth to an uncleared enthusiast, lest he risks his clearance, job, and possibly his personal freedom. Security officers spend a tremendous amout of time and effort indoctrinating and training folks with access to these kinds of projects on not spilling the beans.

While I do not doubt for a moment that the conversation, as described, occurred....what I do doubt (highly) is the truthfullness or accuracy of the information provided.

To any one who cares, I think he means YF-23. YF-21? Never in this country, but there have been F-21s. F-21 was te designation given to IAI Kfir's loaned to the US for use in aggressor unit. I think it was about twenty of them. They showed up in some movies, like Iron Eagle and a couple of made for cable flicks, even left them in their original colors. Just in case any one wanted to know...

ok, I knew when I originally posted this I was going to catch some hell. yeah maybe I should have named my thread a little differently.. and yeah yf-23.. I didn't say it looked like a triangle, that I'm sure is something completely different, and yes, Aurora is supposedly having some very tough financial problems, which doesn't come as a shock. And as a software writer don't you think that this man might be involved with kind of similar software that aircraft use? do you think aircraft just have engines and pilots and that's that? come on.. you can't believe everything .. I know... but sometimes, you have to believe something

I'm throwing the bull *doo doo* flag on this one.

Mod Edit: Naughty Language That Violates The T & C

[edit on 27/9/2005 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Ox
ok, I knew when I originally posted this I was going to catch some hell. yeah maybe I should have named my thread a little differently.. and yeah yf-23.. I didn't say it looked like a triangle, that I'm sure is something completely different, and yes, Aurora is supposedly having some very tough financial problems, which doesn't come as a shock. And as a software writer don't you think that this man might be involved with kind of similar software that aircraft use? do you think aircraft just have engines and pilots and that's that? come on.. you can't believe everything .. I know... but sometimes, you have to believe something

The difficulty with what you're telling us, is that because he's a software writer for a different CONTRACTOR, he isn't even remotely involved with anything Lockheed Martin. Which is why we can't believe what he says, not only does he not have the special access, he doesn't even work for the right company.

Remember, just because someone works for the company, doesn't mean they know everything about secret aircraft.

Shattered OUT...

Might I remind everyone that it can be very well possible a person of ox's friend's nature could have sufficient security clearance to have had knowledge of such projects.

Despite the negative comments, if it's true than this is very exciting news. Alot of comments have been very negative, but at the same time, we shouldn't say things like "you are wrong, it is more like...." or "definitely not, its..." because everyone here simply can't respond with 100% accuracy.

Instead of throwing Ox to the lions, a little excitement would be nicely appreciated.

Just to back up Ox's post, I was aware of the existence of flight-capable stealth helicopters by the time I was 7 years old! Not only knowledge of, but had personally seen technical specs and imagery. How? From a technical writer with sufficient security clearance! If I said this back then, I would have been met with the same arrogance as in this post.

Direct from Sikorsky:

The first Boeing-Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche prototype was rolled-out at Sikorsky Aircraft in Stratford, Connecticut on May 25, 1995.

The prototype's first flight was made on 04 January 1996.

Nope. Flight capable demonstrator was zooming around in the 80s!

[edit on 23-9-2005 by SimonGray]

Simon, I can understand why we need to approach this news with an open mind, but believe me, I've tried it, and it doesn't work.

No one here is debating the fact that Software writers can have special clearance, becasue quite frankly, software writers are needed, especially for high end technological aircraft. What we are debating is the fact that a Software writer from Northrop, would have specific knowledge and information regarding a Special Access program under development by LockHeed Martin.

And plus, from what I've heard of the "Aurora," it did not fit his description of it.

YF-21?

Shattered OUT...

Even if it is Illegal to tell information about classified projects, if I had that clearance I'd say about it, man has no right to decide what people should or should not know. Anyone who thinks that secrecy is a good idea is an idiot, should look at themselves and think "Is this actually worth it?".
They would also be an arrogant selfish git, so its not surprising this is about the american government, they seem to have those requirements on their application forms.

I may be wrong, but we have intelligence, and the ability to think for ourselves, and I really hate how governments decide people should or should not know.

Also isn't there a freedom of Information act so you can just ask the pentagon about it, if they don't tell you then they are hypocrites, and no one likes hypocritres.

[edit on 25-9-2005 by apex]

Originally posted by apex
Even if it is Illegal to tell information about classified projects, if I had that clearance I'd say about it, man has no right to decide what people should or should not know. Anyone who thinks that secrecy is a good idea is an idiot, should look at themselves and think "Is this actually worth it?".
They would also be an arrogant selfish git, so its not surprising this is about the american government, they seem to have those requirements on their application forms.

I may be wrong, but we have intelligence, and the ability to think for ourselves, and I really hate how governments decide people should or should not know.
[edit on 25-9-2005 by apex]

And this is why there are background checks to be part of special access programs, and also why you will never work on one.

Believe it or not, there are reasons for keeping things secret, especially when it comes to the most advanced military aircraft in the world.

Originally posted by apex
Even if it is Illegal to tell information about classified projects, if I had that clearance I'd say about it, man has no right to decide what people should or should not know. Anyone who thinks that secrecy is a good idea is an idiot, should look at themselves and think "Is this actually worth it?".
They would also be an arrogant selfish git, so its not surprising this is about the american government, they seem to have those requirements on their application forms.

I may be wrong, but we have intelligence, and the ability to think for ourselves, and I really hate how governments decide people should or should not know.

Also isn't there a freedom of Information act so you can just ask the pentagon about it, if they don't tell you then they are hypocrites, and no one likes hypocritres.

[edit on 25-9-2005 by apex]

Ok, this is funny, because things are kept secret for a REASON.

Perhaps it's for our better safety that things are secret? The bigger thing about human nature that you need to realize, is the tendency to go and backstab each other.

So I whole heartily agree with the US keeping secrets, there is nothing wrong with it, anyone who things secrets should be told, really need to revise their tactics.

Shattered OUT...

ok.. Firstly I have to thank SimonGray and those who have been backing me on this, but I still have to stand by what I've written. People have said "its described differently than what I've heard" ok. I can give explanation to that, I've not seen it first hand and I doubt either have you. So, somewhere speculation is coming into a conversation. To address the opinions on law breaking, who hasn't broken the law? gotten a speeding ticket? now don't come back and say "but a speeding ticket and Aurora are two different things?"... isn't the law the law? I can understand the doubt, but as I said, sometimes you just have to believe. Yes my friend is a trusted friend, yes he has TS clearance and who knows what different contractors share behind closed doors? I don't and honestly (without being rude) neither does anyone but the ones involved..

its not like Ox's frend violated the law by actually telling where or how many aircraft or wats its capabilities. all he says it that its Lockheed's department and dats dat. its almost like i cannot confirm or deny in a way. its almost like he says go look to Lockheed instead of us.

well, i'll just reiterate that i thought it was a great story, ox and i hope you come back with some more info. i love stuff like this...and i'm a firm believer in the fact that NOBODY knows for certain what is and isn't being built and/or flown at this time. a lot of folks want to spit out lots of uber kewl techie jargon and whatnot...but nobody here has been inside the hangars or on the runways in the dead of night watching these things taxi for takeoff (...or do they even taxi!!).