Gun and Property rights issues in the aftermath of Katrina .(please watch video clip)

I am very concerned about the threats to citizens rights going on in NOLA.
Just as 9/11 spawned the Patriot Acts, I fear this disaster will spawn more erosion to the rights of honest, hard-working American citizens.

I don't think the various levels of government intentionally were lax in their relief effort, just the result of huge government bureaucracy.
People are demanding more and more of their government while our taxes provide less and less. All the while, government finds more and more ways to intrude on our lives.

It sickens me...GRRRRRRR!!!

THanks, AMUK, for posting this.
Alas, I couldn't seem to open the video, though.

This was indeed very disturbing.

I'd like to make one point, and then I'm going to cut myself off. I could spend a long time on this thread hurling expletives and berating the people responsible, but I think it would be redundant at this point.

The point I want to make is this. No matter how corrupt our officials are, no matter how real the NWO is, no matter what laws are passed without the consent of the people, one fact remains; the enforcers are the ones who can make the decision NOT to do the bidding of their controllers.

The fat, moronic pig who tackled that woman is, in the end, the one responsible for the decision to do so. He was given orders, and he CHOSE to obey them.

The policy-makers bear their share of the blame, no doubt, but it's the men on the ground, the cops, agents, and private security personnel who are going to be deciding factor in the coming years. They have to make the decision to evict, detain, question, abuse, or execute the people who count on them for protection.

If they continue to follow their greed right down power trip lane, all is lost.

If they wise up and start acting like decent folks, there is hope yet for this country called America.

Decisions are the crux of this issue. In a decision rests all the power you can imagine. If that power is used for the greater good, we're all roses and sunshine. That fat moron on the video could have made a different decision, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I would never tackle an old lady. I suppose that's why I'm not in a position where I get paid to follow orders, because I refuse to sublimate my conscience for the purpose of collecting a paycheck.

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, especially someone from the freakin' government is going to take my gun from me! PERIOD! The only way this government and their illegally hired mercenary soldiers are going to get my gun is when they pry it from from my cold, dead hands!

Posse Comitatus anyone!? Second Ammendment anyone!? Bill of Rights anyone!? I AM FUMING MAD! This whole debacle has sent me clear over the edge! They've done it now for the whole entire world to see; they've exposed themselves and their ugly under-belly, the NWO.

The Constitution allows for, NO, it practically demands that government power remain in the hands of the people. When such a time comes that our Constitution is usurped by the very government it sought to create, the power of the people to reform government shall not be infringed upon. As one Constitutional scholar once said:

"When you can no longer tell the difference between the traits and actions of the criminal enterprises[and those in them], and those that are our elected officials, the Courts & Judges, the businesses, the Churches, and others that are wealth and power hungry; then it is time to scrap the current system of U.S. government[which is not a "true" Republican Form of Government], go back to the original U.S. Constitution and the 'true' intent of America's founders, and make the needed corrections. From this we create a new United States government. A Nation and government that is a 'true' Republic for all the people, and not just for the privileged few."
Jan. 2000, Sherwood Ensey

As my kids chronically ask while they anxioulsy await our arrive to some exciting new destination... "Dad, are we there yet?" This time I answer sadly, "Yes, unfortunately I think we are here... now." I hope to GOD that enough people have been awakened by this event (Series of events) to realize that their cozy and comfy little lives are only a fraction of a second away from complete government intervention and control. I say, "LET THE REVOLUTION BEGIN!!!"

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
I
THanks, AMUK, for posting this.
Alas, I couldn't seem to open the video, though.

Keep trying I just got it to work, after 4 tries.

I hope this means too many people are watching it.

Words can not discribe the video you have to watch it

Amuk, you are correct in that Rant and I are 180 degrees from each other on all issues, darn-near. That is because of the political mind-control and divide and conquor nature of their methods. Most of us fall into that trap, especially the closer to election time it gets, we'll get sucked into the numerous webs of deceit, smoke and mirrors.

Notice, however, that many of us are coming out of the haze and fog of deception and are beginning to see what "they" are doing to us.

Speaking of "them", I will be on the phone tonight, with a gentleman by the name of Kris Millegan. He is the editor of the book entitled, Fleshing Out Skull and Bones. As many of you know, I am not technologically savvy; I still prefer pen, paper and egad, books! Regardless, I am going to attempt something that amounts for me the attempted jump over Snake River; I'm going to try and record an interview with Kris Millegan. I might even wind up having to overnight the recording device to the Overlord so that he can put it on the board, but I can assure you one thing; once you listen to Mr. Millegan, you won't look at politics the same ever, EVER again.

More people have to wake up and realize what is going on.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
More people have to wake up and realize what is going on.

I cant wait to hear it

I have U2Ued several people from all over the spectrum from BT to Skippy to try to get the widest possible viewpoints on this.

I would like to hear from everyone on this. It makes me sick every time I view it

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Neither side is particularly in love with the notion of citizens holding guns, either. Why? Because they are afraid of you, that's why.

The extremely disturbing thing is how they have thugs who'll do their bidding, who'll slam little elderly ladies to the floor for having the audacity to want to stay in their homes.

This is like the Ruby Ridge injustice, let's not forget waco either.

On Ruby Ridge:

In 1992 a federal force of U.S. Marshals, FBI and BATF agents conducted a murderous assault on the homestead of Randy and Vicki Weaver, resulting in the deaths of Vicki and their son, Sammy.
Read up on it here




Remember when Clinton and Reno were in office?
Here is what she had to say on Gun control:

Within days of signing the Brady bill, Clinton ordered a study of a national gun-licensing system. Reno had been advocating such a system for years. She saw it in simple terms:

“I think it should at least as hard to get a license to possess a gun as it is to drive an automobile.“ And if safety on the road means drivers must prove proficiency behind the wheel, why shouldn’t gun owners be required to prove that they can safely handle a firearm? she asked. An NRA gun-safety course would be just fine.

The administration also proposed raising the fee for gun dealer’s licenses. [When the NRA protested], Reno responded that owning a gun, like driving a car, is a privilege, not a right.



This shows you can't trust these government agencies to do your bidding for you, they won't keep you safe, but rather cause harm and injustices 10 fold.

Resulting in unneccesary massacres, murdering your wife and child, and possibly breaking fraile body bones (like what could of happened to that lady in the video).


And these are the guys who want to take your guns away because 'they got it covered'




[edit on 13-9-2005 by TrueLies]

Originally posted by TrueLies

Here is what she had to say on Gun control:

The administration also proposed raising the fee for gun dealer’s licenses. [When the NRA protested], [Reno responded that owning a gun, like driving a car, is a privilege, not a right.

You know its Ironically Interesting about this point here..

Mayor Bloomberg stated something to that affect on the Priveledge to Protest.

[edit on 9/13/2005 by ThichHeaded]

Well, my opinion has been solicited (and that’s fine because I do have one) regarding this subject.


This issue touchy for sure, at the very least very grey. I am 100% behind people owning guns (within reason) to protect themselves, even from the government in absolute extreme circumstances. After all, the government’s sole purpose to protect us, not rule us and we Americans should always retain the means to overthrow our government if it’s TRULY needed. All we need to do is remember our founding fathers to understand the importance of controlling our government.

Have said all that, what we need to look at here has nothing to do with guns at all. This is not a gun issue and the possibility of using them to defend you or your property against the government is not really the problem here. The real issue here is: Do these homeowner’s rights to stay infringe on the rights of others? Follow me now on this one…

Step back for just a second and think outside of the box here: What is every single law based on in the USA? We basically have the freedom to do anything we want so long as it DOES NOT infringe on another’s rights or safety. I am sure nobody disagrees with me here, as this is plain fact.

Now, how does this apply to the issue at hand? Currently in the areas affected there is a MAJOR health issue that affects 100% of everybody who remains in the area. If the government allows people to stay, they run the risks of these people becoming hurt, sick or possibly dyeing. I know what has been said and what you are thinking: If that’s what they want to risk, let them, that’s their right. But it really isn’t their right, let me close up my point here: Sick or dyeing people become a risk and liability to others, both public and private including their neighbors and the government. People who stay create a governmental liability and could possibly worsen the situation for others.

People living under those conditions tax the system and its resources causing extra cost, effort, and possibly creating additional unsanitary conditions affecting others. And that’s an infringement on the rights of others and that’s why they cannot stay.

Let’s look at this from a totally selfish standpoint: How much of my taxes will I need to pay to help these people stay in their homes and keep them safe and healthy in a broken, diseased infrastructure and enviroment? How much will it cost me when they get so sick they finally ask for help?

Bottom line: It’s a health risk and a public liability for these people to stay in their homes under these circumstances whether they think so or not. An emotional attachment to their homes should not become a community health risk and taxpayer liability. Their assumed right simply infringes on the rights of others.

A right is something you can do that will not infringe on anothers' rights. My freedom of speech (notice, I said speech, and not expression?) will not prevent someone from doing the same thing. There really is no sane way an actual right can harm another person.

Now, to say that because someone remains in their house and on their property, they might get sick is like saying that if a citizen owns a firearm he might blow his foot off! Might's, possibilities, shouldawouldacoulda; they all don't matter in the least.

The granny might've eventually died from drinking fuel contaminated with chemicals, and she might've died from an infection, but guess what? We know for a fact that she has been forcibly removed from her home because of some risk, some possibility of getting a disease.
Where was this take-no-chance mentality from the city and state in the 48 hours leading up to the disaster?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Where was this take-no-chance mentality from the city and state in the 48 hours leading up to the disaster?

I agree 100%, and that’s why the Governor and Mayor Nagin should be held criminally negligent.

amuk

I saw them disarm an elderly lady at machine gun point, wrestle her to the ground and take away her only means of protection, but at the same time they allow business owners to bring in private muscle to protect their property and the Government doesn't have a problem with it? I guess its OK to protect your self with a HIRED gun just not the one in your nightstand.

There you have it. There be different rights for different people.

Good thread. Important.

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Where was this take-no-chance mentality from the city and state in the 48 hours leading up to the disaster?

I agree 100%, and that’s why the Governor and Mayor Nagin should be held criminally negligent.

OK I agree with you there... but how about this???

americablog.blogspot.com...

Koppel (on the number of people at the convention center -- the mayor says 15,000 to 25,000 and FEMA said only 5000): One of you is wrong. It's either 5000 or 15,000. Do you know?

Brown of FEMA: Blah blah blah. 25,000.... We just learned of the convention center -- we being the federal government -- today.

Koppel: I've heard you say during the course of a number of interviews that you found out about the convention center today. Don't you guys watch television? Don't you guys listen to the radio? Our reporters have been reporting on it for more than just today.

Brown of FEMA: We learned about (the convention center) FACTUALLY today that that's what existed.

(Brown responds to another question by saying troops are going to be moving in soon.)

Koppel: Here we are essentially FIVE DAYS after the storm hit and you're talking about what's going to happen in the next couple of days.... You didn't make preparations for what was going to happen in the event that [a category four storm hit]. Why didn't you?

(Brown then complains that poor people who don't own cars and can't afford hotel rooms didn't jump into their SUVs and head to the Hyatt in Atlanta. He then sidesteps Koppel by implying it was the city's fault for not having buses available for the very poor.)

Koppel: I'm not asking you why the city didn't have buses available. I'm asking you why you didn't have National Guards with trucks to get them out of there. Why you didn't have people with flatbed trailers if that's what you needed. Why you didn't simply get as many Greyhound buses from surrounding states as you could lay your hands on to get those people out of there. Why you haven't done it TO THIS DAY.

So the man screwed up... So this entitles the Governement to be morons for 6 days afterwards??

So not only them getting reemed by the Meida, it takes the same guy who needs to be criminally chagred to get things going..

interesting there.. It really is..

Next!!!

Thanks for starting this thread Amuk--the video was shocking.

I think the feds screwed up majorly. But I am one of those people who would rather PREVENT or mitigate an issue before hand than worry about who did what afterwards.

Here is a goofy analogy, but its all I can think of:

Lets say your house just cought fire and its starts to burn slowly, but is steadly speading up. You still have plently of time to get your family of 10 out of the house. You hollar and 8 family come out of the house, but the remaining two are unnable to come out. You make no attempts to go get them and wait for the fire department instead, even though there is time to save them. The fire department arrives after its too late and it takes them hours and hours to get the fire under control to the point where they can try to enter and save the other two. The 2 remaining family members die as a result.

Who is responsible for those 2 lives? You who could have removed them before the fire destroyed the house? Or the fire fighters who were there after the fact?

This is the way I see Mayor Nagin and this situation. He simpy did nothing to make sure the people who could not leave by themseleves were safe. What difference does it make how slow the Federal Government was if some or all of these people could have been evacuated before they were in danger?

Do the feds have some explaining to do? Of course, and at the very least they need a serious overhaul. But the people MOST responisble for the deaths themselves is the local leaders of those areas. And most of all Ray Nagin.



[edit on 13-9-2005 by skippytjc]

So peoples' property rights and the second amendment are being trampled. Why? Supposedly to ensure their safety, because the flood waters have contaminated their homes - it's not safe to "even touch the water," and the mold is making everyone sick.


So what's happening with the toxic waste clean-up?

Potential Disaster Looming: Stop the pumps in New Orleans NOW!


Will New Orleans be cleaned up properly, or will developers cut corners to bump their profits even higher?

Skippy you have yet to say what you think of the video?

Is this the way the government should "protect" its elderly?

This point can't be made often enough, IMO:

"What happens now will set the standard for what is deemed "neccesary and lawfull" the next time somthing major like this happens.


From a dupe thread here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by True Lies

This is like the Ruby Ridge injustice, let's not forget Waco either.

On Ruby Ridge:

Great point True Lies.

This is not about the Republicans or Bush bashing. Its about the Government slowly increasing its strangle hold over us. This ties in nicely with the recent Supreme Court decision allowing people to be thrown off their property if a company thinks they can use it to make a buck with.

Its an inch here and an inch there and before you know it we are in a dictatorship.

[edit on 13-9-2005 by Amuk]

Originally posted by skippytjc
Bottom line: It’s a health risk and a public liability for these people to stay in their homes under these circumstances whether they think so or not. An emotional attachment to their homes should not become a community health risk and taxpayer liability. Their assumed right simply infringes on the rights of others.

Okay, I finally got cOle's link to work and say the old lady.
Good thing that burly cop didn't break that old woman's hip in the process of subduing her.

I have first-hand experience with cop mentality post 9/11. Anytime you do anything a cop feels is wrong, it is considered "interfering with police". Look at some of them the wrong way and you could get arrested, or a ticket and court appearances.
I don't like this police state mentality a bit.

We really need to ask, where this woman was living and how dangerous it is. Looked dry to me.
If I want to stay and have food and water, why should I be forced to leave. Is there really a health problem in her area?
Unfortunatley, I don't trust my government to tell me the truth.