I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

Strange... can't view them from home at all... can't even ping img.photobucket.com ... get ping error 65 w/e that is.

I did however try viewing this thread from one of the server's my site uses for it's bitorrent tracker and had no problems at all....weird.

Thanks again for a good post.

Springer,
A new member to this site as I may be, and I do not wish to derail or sidetrack this thread (apart from this one issue), but I for one, take offence to the tone of your 'management-shot-across-the-bows' as Valhalls story continues to gain wider and wider coverage, and in turn gains the site far greater exposure to the media (this story falls into the 'top 10' hits on many search engines..not to mention interest from 'traditional' media)

"..If you are trying to pick the author's story apart with idiocy, or side tracking your post your membership rights will be dealt with by the management of this site"...."some people seem bent on de-railing the TRUTH being brought to us by an EYE WITNESS with rediculous side steps into the inane. Well, as one of the three Owners of this site I am letting EVERYONE know right here, right now, that isn't going to happen on THIS thread."

Yes, Valhalls' story here is of vital importance in the mission to seek the truth and to bring it out into the open, but to treat the members of this site as your 'lessers' that should toe-the-line in order to enable you and the other co-owners of this site to create a 'corporate' image for the benefit of the wider media, quite frankly sir, stinks.

I, and the vast many other contributors to this site have the same mission, to 'Deny Ignorance'...what Valhall has done here is of immesurable value toward the cause, and yes, I agree that inane bickering and sidetracks over semantics should be deplored, however, this is no excuse to make open 'threats' to those who should lessen the site's 'marketability'. I would have sent this as a U2U but the voracity of your post to the wider membership demanded a public reply.

Note: Please DO NOT post replys or slant the discussion toward this post here on the thread...Valhalls story is too important to sidetrack into management or other issues, as Springer stated. I felt that Springers post deserved a public rebuttal

Hey timski,

I hope you don't mind me responding. I understand your concerns and comments, and actually immediately sought confirmation from Springer myself. Seems even living with some one does not stop miscommunications at times - especially when they are written. I can speak with great confidence the following:

What he meant to say was "THE WAY I SPOKE MY STORY IS NOT THE ISSUE. THE CONTENT OF MY STORY IS."

I will ask him to re-visit this thread and confirm that I now understand his comments. But, as you can see, I had to seek confirmation myself. I do know that his intention was not to limit any vetting of my account.

Thanks.


[edit on 9-9-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall
"..I do know that his intention was not to limit any vetting of my account.."

My only issue was with the tone of Springer's post and the implied threats if a member's question to your eye-witness account was deemed 'inane', which I felt to be an abuse of his status

Originally posted by timski
Springer,

Yes, Valhalls' story here is of vital importance in the mission to seek the truth and to bring it out into the open, but to treat the members of this site as your 'lessers' that should toe-the-line in order to enable you and the other co-owners of this site to create a 'corporate' image for the benefit of the wider media, quite frankly sir, stinks.

I, and the vast many other contributors to this site have the same mission, to 'Deny Ignorance'...what Valhall has done here is of immesurable value toward the cause, and yes, I agree that inane bickering and sidetracks over semantics should be deplored, however, this is no excuse to make open 'threats' to those who should lessen the site's 'marketability'.

The UNFORTUNATE perception you have created was NOT the intent of my post at all. If it was taken as ANYTHING other than a GENUINE request for STAYING ON TOPIC than I appologize.

Your insulting inuendo that "marketing or corporate" concerns were involved is beyond my ability to comment to in polite company.

All I can say is my post was directed to those who would come here with the sole intention of disruption will not be welcomed.

Springer...

[edit on 9-9-2005 by Springer]

Originally posted by Springer
Your insulting inuendo that "marketing or corporate" concerns were involved is beyond my ability to comment to in polite company.

My apologies for over-stepping the line and making a rash assumption

All I can say is my post was directed to those who would come here with sole intention of disruption will not be welcomed.

I agree with your intention, but perhaps you could have been a little less 'threatening' in your post

I hope there is no personal offence taken, as none was intended...now, back to the unfolding story, eh?

Originally posted by timski
I agree with your intention, but perhaps you could have been a little less 'threatening' in your post

Maybe I could have but I wasn't "threatening" anyone I was making a "policy statement"... I am not the "diplomatic partner" of this site, for better or worse I say it plain and simple, the direct approach...

.now, back to the unfolding story, eh?

That's ALL I wanted in the first place...

Springer...

Just posting a follow up question or two.

Are there disaster victims in this camp now? Has there been anyone at the camp that has been detained against his or her will? Has there been anyone at the camp that has expressed that they feel that they are prisoners? Has anyone talked to any disaster victims who have been directed to this camp? Has anyone been able to talk to anyone in this camp at all other than staff on the site? Has anyone talked to any medical personnel at the camp, or involved with the camp, to see if there are any ill people there they may have treated?

Thanks!

to all concerned:

do you think the real brains behind the curtain are not aware of this massively popular(go valhall!) thread/meme?

as in quantum fizzix, the observer affects the observed.

the unfortunate thing about lab animals, is that they die when you dissect them.

there is another camp in utah with barbed wire and everything. victims are not being told where they are going when they are loaded onto planes. allegedly.

Originally posted by billybob
victims are not being told where they are going when they are loaded onto planes. allegedly.

billybob:

Won't comment on the first part of your post, but I'd like to remind everyone that there is nothing alleged about keeping these people in the dark about their destinations.

Evacuees not told where they're going

Evacuees in Utah are not being confined to their camp. (there are many stories about the evacuees in utah in the same paper as the article i link you to.)

www.sltrib.com...

[edit on 10-9-2005 by Floh]

I would suspect part of the delay in transferring evacuees is the screening that is taking place. The question is, who is being detained in different circumstances and for what reasons? Crime potential, disease control? What?

I have no doubt at this point all shelter situations are not the same.

Edit: Mizar keeps coming to mind. Wish there was more news from him. I seriously worry about people who stayed behind, feeling fairly certain they could survive, only to possibly be viewed as "problems" at this point. Serioulsy, we have no idea what the criteria is at this point for the difference between evacuees and detainees.

[edit on 9/10/2005 by Relentless]

Originally posted by CatHerder
Just posting a follow up question or two.

Are there disaster victims in this camp now?

Don't know. The Oklahoma newspapers and TV stations say no.

Has there been anyone at the camp that has been detained against his or her will? Has there been anyone at the camp that has expressed that they feel that they are prisoners?

Trifecta on the don't knows.

Has anyone talked to any disaster victims who have been directed to this camp? Has anyone been able to talk to anyone in this camp at all other than staff on the site? Has anyone talked to any medical personnel at the camp, or involved with the camp, to see if there are any ill people there they may have treated?

As I posted early in the thread, Springer spoke with our preacher the next morning. That is everything we know. Well, other than my mother told me on Wednesday that she had been told the reason it was called off is that they were getting people on the buses who weren't supposed to be there (not evacuees) and they were having problems controlling this. I didn't share that because I have no idea where she heard it. I didn't ask because it sounded like something lame to me.

Might those white vehicles be UN vehicles? Is the UN in charge? I wish the person who took the pictures said if the cops and guards spoke clear English. Did she ask if the people usinig the church camp for 5 months were PRISONERS from New Orleans jail? Those prisoners were evacuated but I dont know to where. This place would be ideal for them. That would sure explain the guards comments about riots and 'these kind' of people.

I am not ignorant of what is going on, but perhaps this is not as scary as it seems ........ yet.

If I had a guide and a group I would go there and ask to interview 'residents'.
I am a reporter
Zions CRY World News
ZionsCRY.InJesus.com...

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by CatHerder
Are there disaster victims in this camp now?

Don't know. The Oklahoma newspapers and TV stations say no.

Gosh, I sure hope a few hundred people didn't have to go without a home because of this sensationalized story which insinuated, without cooberration, that this was a detainment camp. That would be the first real conspiracy to post in this "conspiracy" forum.

Well, I don't think my recalling my experience has prevented anybody from having a home. How could it?

Once again, I ask how I have sensationalized anything? Once again, I state that I having done nothing but repeat what was told me and four other people (and one of those people has read this article and verified the accuracy of my account - there's your corroboration), and shared what I saw.

I'll have my son log on when he comes over this weekend, and respond in this thread. Of course, that most likely won't be powerful enough to sway you from your obsession of wanting to act like a jerk, but it will make me feel better.

I tell you what - if I ever find out your government is about to move you to a camp they won't let you have free movement to and from, and won't allow people to visit you freely - I promise I'll keep my mouth shut.

Originally posted by Valhall
Well, I don't think my recalling my experience has prevented anybody from having a home. How could it?

Once again, I ask how I have sensationalized anything? Once again, I state that I having done nothing but repeat what was told me and four other people (and one of those people has read this article and verified the accuracy of my account - there's your corroboration), and shared what I saw.

I'll have my son log on when he comes over this weekend, and respond in this thread. Of course, that most likely won't be powerful enough to sway you from your obsession of wanting to act like a jerk, but it will make me feel better.

I tell you what - if I ever find out your government is about to move you to a camp they won't let you have free movement to and from, and won't allow people to visit you freely - I promise I'll keep my mouth shut.

Act like a jerk? Why do you have to turn to personal insults? It's ok to be WRONG Val. It's ok to be WRONG...

I'm asking for proof that it's a detainment camp (YOUR words). I'm asking for proof that there are people being held against their will. I'm asking for proof that this is nothing more than a place for people to live for a few months until they can go home or move to a new home or new jobs.

Nobody here, and nobody in the media has called it a detainment camp, nor has anyone said anyone was moved there against their will. Except for you implying that this was the case.



[edit on 10-9-2005 by CatHerder]

Originally posted by CatHerder
Act like a jerk? Why do you have to turn to personal insults? It's ok to be WRONG Val. It's ok to be WRONG...

I'm asking for proof that it's a detainment camp (YOUR words). I'm asking for proof that there are people being held against their will. I'm asking for proof that this is nothing more than a place for people to live for a few months until they can go home or move to a new home or new jobs.

Nobody here, and nobody in the media has called it a detainment camp, nor has anyone said anyone was moved there against their will. Except for you implying that this was the case.
[edit on 10-9-2005 by CatHerder]

This is ATS, people tend to assume the worst and rarely you'll see a post that doesn't have some sort of bad omen commentary.

I posted what I thought were reasonable questions and comments about the camp itself, and didn't receive any sort of reply. Even to tell me I'm wrong...

Originally posted by CatHerder

I'm asking for proof that it's a detainment camp (YOUR words). I'm asking for proof that there are people being held against their will.

At this point - by all news reports in the state of Oklahoma, there are no evacuees at Falls Creek. So there couldn't possibly be detainees, if there is no one at all staying there (short of a "skeleton crew" that the papers report may still be there).

Governor Henry has stated that he "called a halt" to further evacuees being bused into the state after Arkansas prepared for around 3000 (I think that is the correct number they were originally expecting) and got 10,000. He states that he wants to make sure that the evacuees the state has now (I'm assuming these are the ones at Camp Gruber) are properly cared for before accepting more. That's what the papers and TV here are reporting. I know no more than that on the issue, other than some one telling my mom the load of poop about people who weren't supposed to be boarding the buses were getting on and they had to stop the effort.

I'm asking for proof that this is nothing more than a place for people to live for a few months until they can go home or move to a new home or new jobs.

Please see above. With that said, if this is "nothing more than" what you describe above, I am sure, after Governor Henry is satisfied that they can be taken care of properly, evacuees will be brougt into this camp. Until then - I don't think the answer is going to come to us while the camp sits empty, because there is no answer while the camp sits empty.

nor has anyone said anyone was moved there against their will. Except for you implying that this was the case.

[edit on 10-9-2005 by CatHerder]

This is a bold faced lie. I have not said that anyone was being moved to this facility against their will. I haven't even implied it. So you're way off base there. And as I stated (I believe to you on the first page of this thread) if you can come up with the correct name for a facility where the people will not be able to come and go, nor have visitors have free access to them while they are there, I'll be glad to use it from this point on. Just a note, had you answered me on the first page of this thread, I could've been using it now for about 9 pages.

By the way, something that hasn't been brought up in this thread. The press was not going to be allowed access into the cabin area of the camp. They were going to have a designated area near the main gate where they could hold press conferences, but they could not go on inside the camp where the cabins are located.

Originally posted by Esoterica


I posted what I thought were reasonable questions and comments about the camp itself, and didn't receive any sort of reply. Even to tell me I'm wrong...

Esoterica,

I'm sorry if I missed your questions. I will attempt to go find them now.