NEWS: Katrina Victims: More Human Sacrifice for Iraq War

As such, your entitled to your opinion and beliefs, intrepid.
I won't be on next week at all, because I will be heading to New Orleans Sunday a.m. with my wife's Virginia National Guard unit to do what all that can be done to help.

You?





seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
As such, your entitled to your opinion and beliefs, intrepid.
I won't be on next week at all, because I will be heading to New Orleans Sunday a.m. with my wife's Virginia National Guard unit to do what all that can be done to help.

You?

Nice try. You know I'm a continent away. I can do little other than send money.

Are you implying that I am not?

Not only POOR debate tactics, I take that personally. How dare you?

[edit on 2-9-2005 by intrepid]

as posted by intrepid
Seekerof, you're NOT blaming Bush for ANYTHING is seriously affecting your credibillity. If he can do NO WRONG why isn't this guy walking on water? Seems like that's what you think.

I missed this written by you, intrepid.
First off, I have been on this site for quite sometime, long before you.
Secondly, those that have been here as long, know that I have been pro-Bush since my becoming a member here. As such, if my being pro-Bush is affecting my credibility, based upon your Canadian conclusions, then I find it highly doubtful I would have been invited to become apart of this staff. You know, credibility issues and all.....







seekerof

Somebody eventually will have to take responsibility for the death of so many "After the Hurricane"

I imagine that many heads will roll and many political careers will be terminated.

I guess is nothing we can do but to donate to the victims while we see them on TV dying from lack of help and not being able to do a darn thing.

Even tonight is people still without help and is been seven days tomorrow.

This America people not some third world country.

I think I had enough of all this already.


[edit on 2-9-2005 by marg6043]

I'm not going to do your work for you Seekerof, got another point you want shot down? No problem. Just PUT IT HERE. Inuendo is as usable as rhetoric.

You are up, you have yet to prove, ANYTHING, just spouting rhetoric. I'm alergic to that BTW.

I just have to ask, "Will you make ANY point"? I mean one that I haven't refuted already.

[edit on 2-9-2005 by intrepid]

Tick, tick, tick, I know you're watching this.

More of the same taunting game, intrepid?
Remember something I told you some time ago, debates are not entirely all about facts and evidences, and has varying facets, such as psychological maneuvering, etc.

Anyhow, your raise the flag of victory in claiming that you have refuted any and all my points made. Alas, victory has been achieved, eh?

Here's my line of thinking on this:
1) your entitled to continue to believe that which you do, as with others.
2) no matter the amount of evidences and proofs given, intrepid, you will continue to believe that which you will.
3) so please, by all means, feel free to continue to wave that blank flag of victory gained from successfully "refuting" any and all points that I have made, k?






seekerof

[edit on 2-9-2005 by Seekerof]

SO Bush giving the middle finger to the people of New Orleans so he could kill more brown people wasn't his fault?

As I said in m example, if I have the chance to fix a seatbelt but don't, and you die because I didn't fix it, it is my fault.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Anyhow, your raise the flag of victory in claiming that you have refuted any and all my points made. Alas, victory has been achieved, eh?

Here's my line of thinking on this:
1) your entitled to continue to believe that which you do, as with others.
2) no matter the amount of evidences and proofs given, intrepid, you will continue to believe that which you will.
3) so please, by all means, feel free to continue to wave that blank flag of victory gained from successfully "refuting" any and all points that I have made, k?

Thank you for the continued backing of my points. You can't see them(I wish you could) but those that read this thread will.

BTW, we are WAY off topic now. Want to take it to u2u, or would you see that as a victory? You definately need one.

Doesn't take me 5 minutes to reply.

Or 10 minutes. I don't look for websites that tell me what I want to hear. I think.

[edit on 2-9-2005 by intrepid]

In my opinion...if Bush, in his great foresight, HAD added another 30' of dirt on top of those levees and Katrina had hit NO directly, giving the city the full brunt of a Cat4 hurricane, the same effect would still be evident.
Thousands dead and a ruined city under water.

A 60' wave coming up the river and the power of the waves of the lake would still have done in the built up levees. Not only that, but the extent of the damage from wind and debris would likely have killed more.

I just can't see how anyone can make it 100% safe.

What happened happened, and though I do not really like GW Bush and his policies, THIS Canadian viewpoint does not blame him for what happened.

What's important is what Seeker Of is doing...going down to help. It is also good that as Canadians, we are willing to help in our own way, Intrepid.

What really irritates me is that our crack team for disaster response is still sitting on their collective tushes because no-one in the American government thinks they're good enough to help.

If Vancouver had a tsunami wash over it because of an offshore quake, I don't think Americans will be waving fingers at Paul Martin for failing to come to the rescue of Canadians because most of his troops are in Afghanistan.

Thank you masqua, for bringing the topic back to hand. It's a heated debate that shouldn't be.

It should be about those that need help.

Well said.

Seekerof
I didn't understand the question you posed to me a couple of pages back, something about whether or not I was being objective in including the POTUS in criticism of the funding woes. I was pointing out the simple fact that if you don't spend money appropriately to shore up coastal defenses, you will suffer disaster, guaranteed. Here's something to chew on...

Link

The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history.

Priorities in Washington are not in order. It's the famous dillema of that place, balancing special interests with the common need. The common need has taken a very, very big hit during this administration's tenure. Progress could have been made to protect the city, if the last five years had been a time of growing infrastructure instead of massive increases in defense spending at the cost of the basic needs of a civilized society.

It's very clear, by the numbers, that we are a nation ill-equipped for anything but war. If we were a humanitarian country, there would have been a massive influx of aid by day two of this disaster.

That didn't happen. There are, no doubt, well-intentioned folks such as yourself putting their lives on the line down south at this very moment. It's unfortunate that these good people continue to give their allegiance to a corrupt and inefficient goverment that's in the habit of using goodly civil servants, such as yourself, as a screen to protect against the righteous fury of the abused populace at large.

You know how many cops are turning in their badges because of the handling of this incident? The number, I bet, is in the high hundreds.

Now the National Guard is down there prepared for war against their countrymen...

This is all a direct result of negligence on the part of this administration, and our public officials in general, with a few notable exceptions. The people suffer still, and I saw Bush doing a photo op with a guitar.

So, I don't know what you mean by objective, because you of all people should know I'm no partisan. This administration would not have succeeded if not for the fact that it's in bed with 'the other side' as it's called. There is no other side. One puppetmaster with two hands + two puppet assholes = One Big Show.

It's not JUST this administration's fault. But it is this administration's fault. If you know there's going to be a really bad hurricane, years in advance, and you fail to prepare for it, that's negligence pure and simple. Bush has had 5 years. Other presidents had 8. Some actually did something about the problem.

There's another component to this issue as well. Most of the states are in bad shape budget-wise. Real bad shape. The whole country is coming apart at the seams, and a whole horde of corporate sponsored politicians are trying to make off with as much finery as they can before the whole ship of state sinks. They're not re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic, they're stealing the goddamn chairs, and the lifeboats!

Incompetence isn't excusable in government officials just because there's a history of it in government.

Originally posted by marg6043
I imagine that many heads will roll and many political careers will be terminated.


I think I had enough of all this already.


[edit on 2-9-2005 by marg6043]

I highly doubt as many heads will roll as you would like, but it would have been nice if you could have given me answers to the one question I asked. I can only assume in leaving you are admiting you had not answer, why is that?

Only heads will be the people who had no power. Bush&Co will do what they did before, "Not our fault, we can't take responsibility for our actions, or inactions as it may be."

Sad but true.

Originally posted by shots

I can only assume in leaving you are admiting you had not answer, why is that?

It merits not answers shots, that is why.

shots
Is this the question you're talking about?

The O'Reilly factor just had a very interesting clip that showed the Mayor of NO took people out of the W hotel and put them to the front of the line rather then his own residents to be evacuated first before his own residents. Why Is that?

If so, she's probably not responding to it for the same reason nobody else is, it's unclear what you're asking, and what facts you're referencing.

What's the 'W Hotel'? What front of what line? Can you rephrase the question in other words? His own residents weren't staying at the W hotel also? How do you know all of this, O'Reiley told you? Consider the source...

If you get any kind of corroboration, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Originally posted by intrepid
......................
Seekerof, you're NOT blaming Bush for ANYTHING is seriously affecting your credibillity. If he can do NO WRONG why isn't this guy walking on water? Seems like that's what you think.

You blaming the president for something noone has control over is affecting your credibility Intrepid...

Let me ask a couple of questions.... First, what happened to not accepting submissions that have obvious political bias in the introduction line and the heading?.....

Second, what exactly do you want to blame the president for?

Warnings were given and preparations were being done before the hurricane hit.

Let's see exactly what was done..

Threatened with a potential catastrophe, the mayor of New Orleans ordered people in the city to evacuate today as Hurricane Katrina gained strength. President Bush has already declared an emergency for Louisiana and Mississippi, which along with other parts of the northern Gulf coast states lie in the direction of the hurricane.
...............
As the hurricane, with winds of about 175 miles per hour, headed toward the area this morning, thousands of people in New Orleans jammed freeways leaving the city, while others nailed boards over the windows of their businesses. Stranded tourists and others unable to leave are able to use the Louisiana Superdome as a shelter. With a state of emergency declared, federal emergency assistance was being deployed and national guard troops were being prepared.

In televised remarks today, President Bush urged people in threatened areas to evacuate to safe ground. "We cannot stress enough the danger this hurricane poses to Gulf Coast communities," Mr. Bush said, adding that everything possible would be done to help them.
..............
Many of Louisiana's national guard forces are currently deployed to Iraq, but the general in charge of the Louisiana troops "has 1,500 troops ready to be deployed, with another couple of thousand that they can tap into pretty quickly," Mr. Nagin said in the CNN interview.

Excerpted from.
www.nytimes.com...

I heard on the news an interview done to one Luisiana national guard member who is in Iraq and said his division was being sent home to help with the disaster about two days ago if I recall.

Anyways, how come noone seems to remember that military helicopters that were sending aid to the affected areas were being shot at by hudlums and gansters that are trying to take advantage of the situation?.....

Help from the Federal government was being sent days ago, but armed gansters stopped many, if not most of the rescuing and relief aid being sent by the government.

All these people trying to blame the president and the administration are obviously playing the blame game trying to make believe everyone they could have done it earlier.....

BS, why didn't they then sent help themselves if they could?.... Many of those officials and others playing the blame game are multimillionares but that I know of they did nothing.....

In situations like this one we need to remind each other that WE ALL ARE AMERICANS, or at least those living in the US are, and we shouldn'd be "playing the blame game" instead we should be working together to help those people in need.

Anyways, millions of dollars have been donated to the different aid relief agencies and they also haven't been able to do much because reaching those areas is nearly impossible and takes a while to ge tthere and to avoid, or detain those hudlums running around and shooting those Federal empoloyees and military personnel that are trying to help....

Originally posted by marg6043
Somebody eventually will have to take responsibility for the death of so many "After the Hurricane"

I imagine that many heads will roll and many political careers will be terminated.

I guess is nothing we can do but to donate to the victims while we see them on TV dying from lack of help and not being able to do a darn thing.
...........

Really?... Can you tell us exactly what the military helicopters that were sent days ago and were shot at should have done?....

They should have taken the hits and died because you claim they didn't work fast enough?....

I don't think you even tried to go there and taken a bullet or two trying to help those people have you?....

Muaddib,

It is reported that black hurricane victims in New Orleans have begun eating corpses to survive. Four days after the storm, thousands of blacks in New Orleans are dying like dogs. No-one has come to help them.

I am a sixty-four year old African-American.

New Orleans marks the end of the America I strove for.

I am hopeless. I am sad. I am angry against my country for doing nothing when it mattered.

-Houston Chronicle

What do you think? all lies?

Originally posted by Jestaman
SO Bush giving the middle finger to the people of New Orleans so he could kill more brown people wasn't his fault?
............

Oh please....first this has nothing to do with Iraq, second most of the people in Iraq want the US to stay there. How do i know I just met an Iraqi who was born in Baghdag and is working in my company now. He and his family went to Iraq two years ago to visit the rest o their family and by what he tells me only 10-15% of people in Iraq do not want the coalition forces there, and those are the insurgents...

Most of the people in Iraq are being killed by insurgents and not by coalition forces, so perhaps you should inform yourself a bit before declaring the president is going after "brown people"....