The Phoenix Lights... And the box found on April 15, 2000? Legit?

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

Originally posted by Drexon
Uh. Hasn't it been LONG SINCE ESTABLISHED beyond all doubt that these were flares? I saw a long documentary on the Discovery channel about this and they had overwhelming evidence that they were infact flares. They fell slowly, they can be seen for miles and miles, the space between them and fall speed was perfectly coherent to a plane dropping them AND there was a god damn military base literally below the sigtings.

yes, and no...

the second sighting, later the same day (evening)... was most diffinatley flares...
this was an effort by the military to confuse the public and cover up one of the most documented, and witnessed ufo sightings ever...

the first sighting has been shown to be significantly different, from witnesses who saw both the events at both times...

They had to do something...
also, have you wondered why the military never admitted to dropping flares later on?
if it was just flares, then why wouldn't they...
IMO they needed to keep the two sightings and times confused...
so that people would assume what is true for one, is true for the other...

Excellent post! I'm all straightened out now. I was confused as to what you (well, most of you) were talking about, but now I think I finally got it.

The Discovery documentary did infact mention a classic triangle shape UFO with the classic signs. People (I think south of Pheonix) saw a triangle shape, small aircraft size UFO that blocked out stars (and then ofcourse revealing the classic triangle shape), and had the typical lights towards the corners of the craft. What the documentary then did was completely drop the subject of that sighting, a very clever move it would turn out. It then 100% concentrated on investigating the 'Pheonix lights' phenomenon, coming to conclusions that it was infact the military dropping these slow falling flares, that can be seen from rediculous distances (they Are flares after all), they just incredibly light intense. What the documentary did with that was let the viewer figure out thing on his/her own. The documentary ended, cold turkey, right there as it'd more or less beyond all doubt proven that the Pheonix lighs seen in the paper was actually a military stunt. When you were through watching the documentary you asked yourself 'What the hell did that have to do with the initial UFO sightings?!?!', ofcourse leaving you in suspicion towards the Pheonix military that they might've screwed up and used what was more or less 'Plan B' wich was an advanced magic trick, a 'Hey, look at my right hand while my left does something else!' kind of trick.

This is actually an excellent way of damage control. While every Joe sixtooth and his TV watching, no internet having mother knows about the Pheonix lights only a very small percentage of people will actually still have the initial triangle sighting in mind, linking them together. It's all about getting the GENERAL population to think it was nothing, rather than having them concentrate on the real sighting. As long as there's only a small amount of people thinking about what actually happened things will be fine, the general population can go back to living their lives and the small amount of people thinking and trying to spread 'the truth' about what happened will be reduced to just this... a couple of (to the general pop) nuts, ranting about some conspiracy thing that 'supposedly' went down.

Military 1 -- People with actual brains 0.

Whats absolutely mind numbing is that a 'presumed' object several 100 yards in length/size is spotted by a guy on a hill. With a population of 3,251,876, conservatively there must be 5-10,000+ citizens directly down below in the city commuting and going about their nightly routines outside.

The Goodyear blimp doesn't fly at night because they hope two people will see it. You can bet that there are thousands that see the blimp when it flies. That, and its not 100's of yards in size.

People in Phoenix, dump the 80's camcorders already. The new low-lux models introduced in the late 90's would give us a better idea of the shape involved.

[edit on 26-8-2005 by nullster]

(they Are flares after all),

I doubt that. Look back to my post. When comparing the initial footage of the pheonix lights with the national guard airshow put on 3 years later (to try and show the public that the lights were flares) it is quite clear that they are not one in the same.

I think Drexson pretty much sumed it up about the military playing a blinder

Shame really as it is such a good case but then ur allways gona have the problem of convincing everyone that ufos really exist.

I'm a firm believer the phoenix lights were a real event, not some military operation to drop flares over a large town

I've seen a few videos of the event, not to mention videos of witness interviews

I don't think it was flares or a UFO ,I think it was some kind of aircraft built by the goverment.The reason I think this is because you would think if it was a UFO the airforce woud send jets to intercept it... which they didn't.

Damn, I came to phoenix 2 months too late or I would have witnessed the lights, IMO they were not flares but a spacecraft. If It was extraterrestrial or terrrestrial, I don't know.

Originally posted by thecry
I don't think it was flares or a UFO ,I think it was some kind of aircraft built by the goverment.The reason I think this is because you would think if it was a UFO the airforce woud send jets to intercept it... which they didn't.

Now there's some good rationale.
If you see jets intercepting the target, it's an intruder.
If not, it's ours.

Originally posted by thecry
I don't think it was flares or a UFO ,I think it was some kind of aircraft built by the goverment.The reason I think this is because you would think if it was a UFO the airforce woud send jets to intercept it... which they didn't.

U.S. property, possible, but not likely. Why would they (the U.S.) want to fly such a huge object so low and above a heavily populated city? This is a bad idea cause there are civilians who can easily take pics and uncover their new stealth technology. A good idea would be to fly it in some remote part of the desert where nobody can see it, like this they can lower the chance of being detected.

I do think it was a UFO. And I don't think that interception by the government would be the brightest idea. I mean, they say that the triangle was about a mile long, Imagine shooting it down, It would crash and kill a mile or more worth of civilians on the ground, and then that would get the Government into deep $hit. They would then have the hard task of covering something that big up. Media coverage would increase the chance of finding out what it was, and if they find that it was really an Alien ship, forget it, the Gov. would really be in it deep, and would have some serious explaining to do. And I think all of this would be avoided just by saying that it was a bunch of flares, that simple explanation worked wonders.

that website is using a hoax (the whole box thing) to gain great numbers of people viewing the site and etc...

in short, i think, the people who made the site wanted to make a great website, so they started this hoax...

let us try to confirm those spanish names and let us see if they actually existed...

arizona yellow pages anyone???

Four witnesses, three of which are in different parts of the world and the fourth no one can find? Why can't they tell the whole story.

Sorry... I think this is stupid and a hoax.

...Also, it's eight years later...

take a look at my earlier post......... its a scam !!! Not the actual Phoenix lights incident but the website in question in the first post regarding the box etc. Thats what I thought this post was regarding ??? Not the actual incident ??? Seems like this is now closed and solved.

Did anyone else solve the picture puzzle at the www.lightsoverphoenix.com website under the diary link?

I did, and I can't figure out for the life of me what I'm looking at.
If you need help with it, right click on the pieces and look at their names under the properties.

Top Row: Put T1A0 at the top left, and contine the sequence untill the top right is T1H0.

Middle row: T1A1-H1

Bottom: T1A2-H2

This is driving me nuts. What is this picture?

Did no one actually think of taking a still photograph of that triangle? If they had with a good flash, they might be able to see a sign saying "Escape" or "Emergency Exit" but instead all they have is videos and sketches of 5 or 7(?) lights in the sky moving at about 30 mph. It isn't very helpful but i suppose you wouldn't think of it at the time.

Originally posted by thecry
I don't think it was flares or a UFO ,I think it was some kind of aircraft built by the goverment.The reason I think this is because you would think if it was a UFO the airforce woud send jets to intercept it... which they didn't.

i thought it was establishted the later sighting was flares, did u see the ufo files the other day (not saying thats the complete truth) they had a scienist on there who took a the film of the later sighting and ran it over the top of a daytime film taking in the same place and u can clearly see that when the lights went out it was in the exact same place as the points of the ridgee in the bk ground giving the impression on the flares slipping out of site!

Now im of the opinon the first sighting was geniune and the miliatry panicked that so many had seen they had to cover it up by the second sighting!

Basically what drexon said!

For quite some time this is still going on, the Lights over Phoenix is a movie and was all hype. I want to know what the hell these lights really were!

Bud

Is this website a hoax?

Regarding the flares, there is a document on The Black Vault from The Deparment of The Air Force that states:

"On the night of 13 Mar 97, our aircraft were involved in normal training missions and had no involvment what so ever with the lights observed over Phoenix"

www.blackvault.com...

I think that pretty much rules out flares, don't you

If the Phoenix Lights weren't flares (which they probably were), then they were something equally mundane. If you look at a video of the event, the lights come on one by one, and die out one by one in order, and they don't appear to move at all. How does this make people think, "GIANT EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRAFT!"??? It has been convincingly shown that there is a ridge line behind which the flares fell, making it look like they die out in turn. This explanation is completely logical and by far the simplest!

I think some of the people that claim to have seen a solid object were simply falling for a sort of illusion: they essentially "connected" the dots in the sky, imagining it to be a larger object.

As for the "military cover up," it just doesn't make any sense. Assuming that there was an earlier and separate UFO sighting, I don't see why the military would go to such lengths to create a diversion later on. Why wouldn't they follow their normal routine and completely ignore it?

Originally posted by Postal76
If the Phoenix Lights weren't flares (which they probably were), then they were something equally mundane. If you look at a video of the event, the lights come on one by one, and die out one by one in order, and they don't appear to move at all. How does this make people think, "GIANT EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRAFT!"??? It has been convincingly shown that there is a ridge line behind which the flares fell, making it look like they die out in turn. This explanation is completely logical and by far the simplest!

I think some of the people that claim to have seen a solid object were simply falling for a sort of illusion: they essentially "connected" the dots in the sky, imagining it to be a larger object.

As for the "military cover up," it just doesn't make any sense. Assuming that there was an earlier and separate UFO sighting, I don't see why the military would go to such lengths to create a diversion later on. Why wouldn't they follow their normal routine and completely ignore it?

Well there are witnesses that say the triangle "blocked out the stars" as it moved by, and that it was indeed a massive silent slow moving object. So once again, this is not flares. Maybe you are looking at a video of flares, but these eyewitnesses were describing something quite different... I believe this was somewhere outside Phoenix though, as it was sighted many places.

The whole "secret box" thing is obviously a hoax.

Military coverup I don't know about, but if you read my previous post they clearly state that they had no involvment with those lights. So if they are telling the truth these were not flares from military planes, as some believe. But you'd think they would pick up something this big on their radar, right? I bet there are some radar-data stashed away somewhere on this...