Utah Rave Video: Must See.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
'We still need more evidence to back this video up that explains in further detail why the military equipped with mp5's, tasers, and helicopters had to break up what looks to me like a harmless rave. "

The MP5 is THE weapon of choice of the Police swat teams.
The tazer is becoming a big weapon used by Police swat teams.
Helicopters are used by Police units all over the country.

Yes I know this as I stated I thought they were police in my post when I started it. But why were the police dressed in military type attire? It is hard nowadays to tell the difference between police and the military.

We do need more evidence on these arrests regarding the rave though and I'm sure more will come to light. My initial post was just my reaction to the video and what I deduced happened from the little evidence I have found online.

There are a LOT of SWAT units that wear camo now. I've seen videos of them all the time. The difference is that instead of military patches they were ones that say "Police Department" on them. And the pattern is slightly different than the military uses.

Here is the first hand account from one of the dj's at the rave.

www.indybay.org...

If you read the entire page you will notice a few, if true, shocking revelations.
Here are a few direct quotes, first hand, written by the dj.
_____________________________________________________________
The police were rounding up the staff of the party and the main
promoter went up to them with the permit for the show and said "here, I
have the permit." The police then said, "no you don't" and ripped the
permit out of his hand. Then, they put an assault rifle to his forehead
and said "get the # out of here right now."

And also this...

Now.. let's get the facts straight here.

This event was 100% legal. They had every permit the city told them
they needed. They had a 2 MILLION DOLLAR insurance policy for the event.
They had liscenced security guards at the gates confiscating any alcohol or
drugs found upon entry (yes, they searched every car on the way in).
Oh, I suppose I should mention that they arrested all the security guards
for possession. Oh another interesting fact.. the police did not have a warrant. The owner of the land already has a lawsuit against the city for something similar. A few months ago, she rented her land for a party and the
police raided that as well. And catch this, the police forced her to
LEAVE HER OWN PERSONAL PROPERTY. That's right. They didnt arrest her,
but made her leave her own property!!!
_____________________________________________________________

So there you have it... either one of the DJ's at the rave is making up bogus stories, or ,in fact, he is telling the truth and if so the police are in big trouble.

Law enforcement agencies have many types of forces that are not military but certainly may look it to the average citizen. Now correct me if I am wrong but aren't rave parties the kind that have illegal drugs at them? Don't get touchy about it, I just always heard that rave=drugs. If that is true then what is so aggressive about enforcing the law?

Somehow I seriously doubt LE would send in SWAT and special OPs because they are afraid someone will yell out a bad word at the President. There have been a lot of drug busts in the news and a recent one involving a staged wedding where smugglers thought they were attending a wedding but instead were arrested. Operations are widespread so I don't really see anything wrong with the rave incident.

Annie please re-read the post I just made above yours.

1) The police had no warrant.
2) The rave had a permit and was 100% legit and legal.
3) The rave had a 2 million dollar insurance policy.
4) They hired legit security for the rave, just like the ones they have at concerts! The security stopped and checked all vehicles for alcohol and drugs before the people were allowed to enter and confiscated as necessary.
5) You can hear the police swearing with profanity and even tazering and abusing the people in the background when they did not comply to leave immediately even though they had no authority to be there in the first place.
6)There are various local news links on the web with testimony from people at the rave saying the police used unauthorized excessive force. (People were beaten, dragged, kicked) and proof of their injuries.
7)The owner of the lot who approved the rave was previously forced to leave her own property when she rented her land for a previous party.

Shall I continue?

Relax. You post was not there when I made yours. That happens sometimes when we all are posting at the same time. That is why I asked my question about rave parties.

Now looking at your information my thoughts are that this does not make sense. Communities do not spend the kind of money on special ops just to bust up a kiddie music party. I tend to believe there was a reason for the operation and I really doubt that peoples opinion on Bush was the reason.

I suspect there is more to the story than has made it out yet so I will reserve my opinion then for more facts. I will say that when certain LE operations start that once in progress some innocent folks can feel harassed simply by being there at the time. Operations cannot start out with "hi, how the heck are ya, are you being bad?". It is the nature of criminal investigations. It is also possible that a lead was bad and lead to an operation at the wrong place, wrong time. Humans are not perfect, in uniform or out of uniform.

Nice video.

Seems to address the old issue of:

Right to assembly vs. supporting underaged chemical dependency

In all fairness:

There has to be a way to appease the needs of the underaged to get wasted in big groups and the need for law inforcement to be over-zealous in trying not to let minors get wasted to death.

I am pretty big proponent of personal property rights. That being said, if sufficient evidence had surfaced to suspect illegal substance abuse by anyone lety alone minors, then the permit would be null as its likely a condition of a state or city sanctioned permit that no laws be broken in said event. Now, if we did in fact have strict controls of substances as was stated and this event took place on private property, I would say this is a huge violation of civil rights.

If, in fact the security is nothing more than a hired bunch of goons and there was credible evidence that illegal activities were taking place, what we have is a police sting operation. Yeah, its a fine line dependant on the old "he said/she said whom do you believe" connundrum.

Originally posted by SportyMB
Me too, just an error page

Interesting though....I doubt it's true....Im calling BS and I don't
even need to read the article.

ditto...if any special forces were used it was probally MORMON special forces. HI-O

Originally posted by KrazyIvan

Originally posted by SportyMB
Me too, just an error page

Interesting though....I doubt it's true....Im calling BS and I don't
even need to read the article.

ditto...if any special forces were used it was probally MORMON special forces. HI-O

Do Mormons have a track record for using their special forces to bash raves?

Maybe more Mormons should be invited to raves, or at least set a booth up for them somewhere near the mosh pit.

I must agree that what is in the video seems to be excessive force.

However, we must keep an open mind as to what might have happened. The video isnt very long and only has footage of a small area.

What I think is absurd is the level of planning, preparation and resources that went into this. How much did just the helicopter's fuel cost? Do they really need balaclavas and SMG's to stop some stoned kids dancing? Seems to me they just wanted to play soldier.

If I was there, I would have been laughing my A$$ off!!!!

Can you imagine all the expressions on all the faces of those people who were using or drunk!!!

Helicopters, dogs, Fully geared out commandos!!!

Hilarious.

That would have been choice entertainment!!!!

People watching can be fun,

More than fun if you are watching the MORMON SWAT team bust up a rave with a bunch of people who are under the influences .....

Artistic License

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
2) The rave had a permit and was 100% legit and legal.

Then where is the permit?

The organizers have thoughtfully posted information to the Internet claiming they were operating legally.

Fine. I'll try to give them the benefit of the doubt for now, meaning that I won't dismiss their claims out of hand, but I won't side with them either -- not without reasonable proof they aren't trying to play me.

This issue bugs me because the sheriff seemed quite confident that this event did not have a “mass gathering permit” and that without it, the event wasn't legal.

That is not a trivial point, it's the crux of the dispute. If the organizers can't back up their claims, then they're lying, and I really don't like being lied to.

I find it incredible that the sheriff would make a statement like that on camera if it were false, and he sure as hell would be an idiot to publicly claim that was the reason for the raid -- which he did -- unless it was true.

So is the sheriff lying, or are the event organizers lying? One of those two things is going on.

My confidence is not reinforced by snippets like this: Police Raid Outdoor Music Event.

“Controversy exists as to whether a mass gathering permit was actually obtained, however, a Health Department permit was obtained, and hired security and emergency medical service personnel were on site.”

“Controversy”? Over whether a permit exists or not? How hard can it be to scan a piece of paper and put it on the 'Net?

The permit is a physical object. It either exists or it doesn't.



This doesn't look good.

The One Piece Of Evidence They've Left Out

Since the organizers have been able to post all sorts of information online, including videos and eyewitness accounts, then why the bloody hell can't they post copies of the mass gathering permit?

If they spent $20k on this thing, I imagine they could be bothered to have made a few ten-cent copies of the permit.

And this is just plain silly. This guy claims to live in Peru. What does he know that I don't? And what the hell is “FAZI”, and why is this guy saying “FAZI” shut down this party?

Unwarranted Accusations

As for not having a search warrant, it would be wise to remember that in the United States, peace officers do not need a warrant to enter private property if there is probable cause to believe a crime is being committed.

The doctrine dates back to the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures (not reasonable ones), so if people haven't heard of it, they're probably not qualified to give legal opinions in this country.

This has all the smell of a public sympathy play. People come on the Internet lobbying for their cause all the time. That's usually because no one else will listen, usually because something doesn't add up.

In this case, something doesn't add up. These kinds of propaganda tactics are used by people who know they're wrong.

And linking all this to international anti-Bush and anti-U.S. campaigns is not going to win any sympathy from me. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Crank Yankers

As far as I'm concerned, the organizers can put up or shut up. They are making some very serious claims, so they'd better be ready to back them up with proof.

They're talking all sorts of smack about suing the sheriff's department, civil rights probe, yada yada. Great. If they have a case, I wish them the best. The place to decide this does, in fact, happen to be court.

If they don't have a case, then screw them for yanking the Internet chain.

Yes, I'm skeptical, because I've seen this sort of thing too many times to count.

Let's see the permit, or video footage of a captured Bigfoot. I'm really not that picky.

I just need some reason to believe, and so far, this story comes up short. :shk:

also posted in ATS ..

The point is not whether or not this excessive force was used by military or swat team.. the point is that several innocent even goers were ambushed by some force, whether it be military or not, for attending a 100% legal event.

Some people claim that this event was not legal. This is also not an issue here. I believe it was legal, but regardless of whether or not it was, the people attending had no idea that it was not. Why then did the police/military/whatever the # you want to call them, have the right to use such force on these innocent people?

And to those that claim they did not have proper documentation to support this event .. what do you not understand? they confiscated it. of course they would, it makes sense.. how else would they get away with such an atrocious crime? I have read more than one account from people who said that they saw them confiscate it.

Anyway, I have a friend who knows someone who was a DJ at the event, not sure of who it was, Ill try to see if they have any documentation or if they know who may have copies of documentation since the original was destroyed. Just give me a few days.. hopefully I can find out something through them.

My Cop Ate My Homework

Originally posted by mirrorsparadise
I have read more than one account from people who said that they saw them confiscate it.

So help me God, if these people claim there was only one freakin' copy of the permit, that does it for me.

That is one of the most insulting stunts I could imagine trying to pull, and it ain't gonna fly. If they're lying about this, then their entire case adds up to nothing more than a steaming pile of poo.

If anyone has a link where the event organizers directly address this issue, I'm interested.

As for the question of brutality, I've been to enough illegal parties to know how reliable those sorts of claims are.

Yes I've seen the footage, and it is more notable for what it doesn't show than what it shows. These kids have parents. If people suffered wrongful, serious injury as alleged, attorneys are standing by.

This is America. There's always a lawyer around when you need one, and plenty more when you don't.

Majic I can see your concern for proof of a legit rave with a scanned permit being released on the net, but the eye witnesses at the rave said that the police had taken the permit and ripped it up. So either the police actually did this, or every eye witness who has come forward was lying??? I would probably believe that the police had ripped up the permit, as we all know how nice police can be. Especially in America.

But there is still the matter of the evidence, which if was destroyed by the police, then sadly nothing will happen. As we see too often nowadays. Basically it comes down to the cops word over the ravers and we all know whos word will win.

IMO though I think that the cops really did break up a legal rave and rip up the permit. But there is no factual evidence to back up my opinions yet, exept the testimony from the ravers. So we will have to wait and see.

[edit on 8-24-2005 by CPYKOmega]

Bill And Ted's Bogus Recordkeeping

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
Majic I can see your concern for proof of a legit rave with a scanned permit being released on the net, but the eye witnesses at the rave said that the police had taken the permit and ripped it up.

They said they went to great lengths to be 100% legal, and had all the necessary permits.

These permits were the only documents they could use to prove that the event was legitimate, and they knew that, since it's the only reason for getting the permits in the first place.

The sole purpose of having such documents is to show them to police when they arrive, and the event organizers would have to be complete idiots not to expect the cops would be checking things out. I mean come on.

Losing the document would be very bad, and if they were concerned about being raided, that is all the more reason to make copies and keep them in several different places. It's not a bad idea to give a copy to every staff member, for that matter.

It is insulting to think that these people would not make duplicates of such important documents. Wouldn't you?

This is the focal point of the entire controversy. Whoever can't cough up the proof is a damn liar.

If the permit existed, there will be records of its issuance

If nothing else, assuming the cops actually did tear it up, tape together the pieces of the old one.

What I'm seeing here has the increasingly unmistakable scent of a lie.

Some proof would be advisable, because this is losing its legs very quickly.

I agree with you Majic and you make a valid point. You would think that they would have made copies of the permit. Thus proving that the rave was legal. And like you stated if there was a permit, then where is proof of its issuance? The person that bought the permit should have told everyone where it was purchased from and then the merchant would be able to corroborate the entire story of the ravers.

If they did only have one permit (may or may not be true) then I'm pretty sure that they didn't expect 90+ police officers with a helicopter to storm their party and rip up the one permit they did have.

I am afraid that this is going to go nowhere though, unless they do turn up some piece of evidence (permit) even though there is testimony from the ravers. As raver testimony alone isn't too plausible in court.

[edit on 8-24-2005 by CPYKOmega]

Not only in Utah. Just for info

Whilst talking to a friend he brought this to my attention.

This is in the Czech Republic. Focus your attention on the pics from index 9

www.techno.cz...

They certainly don't like the rave scene anywhere it wolud seem.

permit, schmermit..

It's about excessive force.
It was excessive, and yeah, in my younger days, I would have probably laughed my butt off too. Imagine how surreal it would have looked.

There is another mass gathering coming up, not too far from the Utah Border, in Nevada..Called Burning man. It's very rave-like, as well.
Take place on a Playa in the Nevada desert..I'm sure some of you have heard of it.. Lot's of illegal stuff going on there too..But they have permits,
and they sell very expensive tickets (200 bucks, I think). They will be left alone. $$$