The Genesis Account...

I have a few problems with Genesis that make no sense:
1) The creation of light and days on day 1 when the sun and the moon etc weren't made until the 4th day.(a) Light consists of photons and elctromagnetic waves that MUST come from a source. (b) a day is one complete revolution of the earth around the sun, so if the sun didn't exist until the fourth day what was the Earth revolving around for the first 3 'days'
2) On day 5 and 6 God creates animals first and then Adam and Eve

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

but in Gen 2 Adam is made after the plants then the animals are made and finally Eve. Which is correct as the above verse suggests simultaneous creation of Adam and Eve after the animals etc.
3)

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed

Strange use of phrase "shall a man leave is father and mother" when there were no 'parents' alive at that time, the animals had no parents so how would Adam understand the concept of a father and mother when he didn't have one??

That will do for now, anyone know??



G

Originally posted by shihulud
I have a few problems with Genesis that make no sense:

shhh! I'm reliably informed by someone who believes that Genesis is an eye witness account of creation that there is no contradiction.

Originally posted by Ras Dedan

Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
Genesis was written by 10 different authors (eye-witnesses) one of them being God himself.
Exodus says it was done in 6 days.
Hebrews says that it was done in 6 days.
Jesus said that Adam was the first man.

the context is well understood.

EC

If Genesis is what you claim,literal eye witness account of creation written in part by none other than God could you explain the glaringly obvious contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2.
Somebody clearly wasn't paying close attention.


Genesis 1

[[20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
[21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[22] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
[23] And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2

[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
[8] And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
[9] And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
[10] And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
[11] The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
[12] And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
[13] And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
[14] And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
[15] And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
[18] And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
[19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
[20] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
[21] And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
[22] And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
[23] And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

This was the reply

Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
Genesis 2 is a brief sumary of Genesis 1. from what I remember. its only of the 6th and 7th day. there is no contradiction whatsoever. read very closely and you will see that there is no contradiction.
try reading the KJV. its the most accurate version there is.

EC

So it's perfectly clear it's all written by eye witnesses and even though they say different things about the same events it's not contradiction.

[edit on 23/9/2005 by Ras Dedan]

Oh that makes perfect sense now. I'm off to become a priest and devote my life to God and Jesus........ NOT!!!!!.


G

Originally posted by shihulud
Oh that makes perfect sense now. I'm off to become a priest and devote my life to God and Jesus........ NOT!!!!!.

What about it didn't make sense? If you were to communicate the aspects that didn't make sense to you in the reply to your questions, it is possible the answer could be tailored to address the type of information you're looking for. There was also a great conversation about this Day 1 Day 4 connundrum here that I couldn't even begin to summarize. I encourage you to read through the thread and then pose any questions you may still have here on this thread. Obviously people here do want to help you understand

Eh JungleJake look to the top of the page and you will see my dilemma and as for the link to another thread, read thread and the answers given are so feeble that they dont deserve to be even contemplated

Originally posted by Junglejake
it is possible the answer could be tailored to address the type of information you're looking for.

Yes I quite believe an answer could be tailored just like nearly every other answer that comes from religion - manufactured to reel the sheep in!

There are many instances and many assumptions made in the bible that when looked at closely start to give a different picture than the one stated by christians!


G

Originally posted by shihulud
Yes I quite believe an answer could be tailored just like nearly every other answer that comes from religion - manufactured to reel the sheep in!

That is a fine way to dismiss anything that anyone tells you when it pertains to God. I don't know if you're in school still, but if you are, I challenge you to do something. Tell your math teacher you're having trouble with imaginary numbers (if that's what you're studying) or some other rather new concept in the class. I'm guessing the teacher will ask you what specifically you're having a problem with. Then, tell your history teacher you're having a hard time understanding whatever era you're going over. I'll bet the teacher asks you what, specifically, you're having trouble with. Then you could tell your science teacher that you're having a problem understanding whatever concept (be sure to keep it general like you did here!) you're going over this chapter, and I'll bet they ask what, specifically, you're looking for.

Are they doing this to indoctrinate the sheeple to believe in math? In history? In science? Or are they trying to help you through the difficulties by addressing them specifically instead of going into information overload? If you want the general answer to your question, read the Bible. Not just any section, the entire thing. So much in that book can be cross-linked and cross-referenced where you gain a deeper understanding for one section through reading a completely different section. If you have a specific concern or question, you can ask and people who may have gone through the same doubts and troubles in understanding could answer you in what they discovered.

Or you can attack people, insult them, and tell them that by tailoring their answers as every other teacher in the world will do when someone has a specific question, is simply indoctrination and brainwashing. It is up to you, God has given you free will.

For one thing its been quite a while since I've been at school and for another maths and the like usually have a basis an FACT and irrefutable PROOF with the exception of religious education which has a basis in FAITH.

As for Sheep why are congregations called flocks and why is jesus the shepherd and yes I do have free will and my will says that faith is no substitute for fact and proof. I will admit that there is a possibility that god exists and the bible is true to an extent but can you say that you might be wrong and god doesn't exist ?

Since you cant be bothered to look at my previous posts here are my questions

1) The creation of light and days on day 1 when the sun and the moon etc weren't made until the 4th day.(a) Light consists of photons and elctromagnetic waves that MUST come from a source. (b) a day is one complete revolution of the earth around the sun, so if the sun didn't exist until the fourth day what was the Earth revolving around for the first 3 'days'
2) On day 5 and 6 God creates animals first and then Adam and Eve

:
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

but in Gen 2 Adam is made after the plants then the animals are made and finally Eve. Which is correct as the above verse suggests simultaneous creation of Adam and Eve after the animals etc.
3)

:
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed

Strange use of phrase "shall a man leave is father and mother" when there were no 'parents' alive at that time, the animals had no parents so how would Adam understand the concept of a father and mother when he didn't have one??

And Ras Dedan responded to them. Your response to Ras was simply, "Oh that makes perfect sense now. I'm off to become a priest and devote my life to God and Jesus........ NOT!!!!!. "

If you don't want to neither understand nor have your questions answered but just to try to form a rift and bring people away from Christ, that's your prerogative. I just misunderstood and thought you were looking for answers.

And no, I could not say that the Bible and Christ's existence could be wrong.

And Ras Dedan responded to them. Your response to Ras was simply, "Oh that makes perfect sense now. I'm off to become a priest and devote my life to God and Jesus........ NOT!!!!!. "

And did you read Ras Dedans response? it is just a copy of verses from Genesis which does not answer my questions.

originally posted by Ras Dedan
shhh! I'm reliably informed by someone who believes that Genesis is an eye witness account of creation that there is no contradiction.

This quote also seems to be sarcastic or is that just me?

If you don't want to neither understand nor have your questions answered but just to try to form a rift and bring people away from Christ, that's your prerogative. I just misunderstood and thought you were looking for answers.

Im not looking to take people away from religion but trying to understand why people need religion

And no, I could not say that the Bible and Christ's existence could be wrong.

Didn't think so!!
Oh one other thing

Or you can attack people, insult them, and tell them that by tailoring their answers as every other teacher in the world will do when someone has a specific question, is simply indoctrination and brainwashing.

A bit of the Pot calling the Kettle black there

I don't know if you're in school still, but if you are, I challenge you to do something.

So YOU attack my post and insult me by assuming I'm still at school.!!!!!!!


G

Ras gave you the scripture that explained what you were asking. You responded, and I asked what, specifically you didn't understand. That, as far as I can read into this, was the end of the discussion and became a thread that I'm done with after this post. If you would like more specific explanations or ideas, I'd be glad to discuss those with you, but I'm done justifying and explaining myself to you.

I will say this, though. I never would have guessed it was an insult to think that someone was furthering his or her education. I apologize if you really were offended that I made an assumption based on the typical demographic of this website. I would also like to point out that saying, "I don't know if you're still in school, but if you are," is not making an assumption that you are, it is saying that, in the event you are, then...

I'll keep reading, just probably won't be posting anymore

yeah sorry it is getting a bit tedious but non of my questions were answered by Ras Dedan nor by the Genesis verses. Stating just what genesis says is the whole problem, its what genesis says that I have a problem with( it makes no sense).


G

Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher

As for the days being thousands of years. I dont think God wrote that on a rock for Moses if it wasnt 6 days. to Moses, 6 days is 6 days, not 6 thousand years or 6 millions years. a day is a day.......

The Genesis account is 10 eye-witness accounts edited by Moses. and I trust that those accounts

Earlier I posted, three times on page two. Since then, I have followed this thread, keeping quiet.
However, in the last few pages I keep seeing the word Teledoth ( Toledoth ). . Since I am unfamiliar with it, I did an AOL Search. I found this page.
www.specialtyinterests.net...
This site supports the claim that Moses compiled the Book of Genesis from Pre-existing documents. It says a few things more. Actually it was an interesting site.
By the way, I still think days may have been eras or epochs, not 24 hours. Didn't God make an extra long day for Joshua in Joshua 10? So why could the original 6 Days of Creation not have been very long?

13: And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14: And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

[edit on 28/9/2005 by Ras Dedan]

Hi Rawiea checked out the site on toledoth and a few others, but still there are a few assumptions made like they all knew how to write in the same language over thousands of years and how each successive generation would carry these tablets with them everywhere (while fighting and being persecuted and such like) right down to Moses who by some "miracle" wrote in Hebrew about 400 years before anyone else.

G

shihulud

Yup. Like I said, it supports a claim. I never said that it backed much of anything up with facts. It seems almost like a site supporting a Theory. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but it should have identified itself as such. I also had a couple questions, but now at least I know what "toledoth" is. Until this thread, I don't think I ever heard the term before.
I'm in my mid 50's and you folks are forcing me to learn. What a shame! I used to think that when I was this age I'd know it all. How wrong I was.

I was wondering when were the angels and other godly creatures were created as there is no mention of them in Genesis. I thought they were supposed to have been made before man? When God says "Let there be light" is that him creating Lucifer the light bringer?


G

A very good question! It could have been then, and it could have been even earlier, before the universe since they do live with God. Thing is, their origins are never really explained in the Bible. I could take some guesses, but that's all they would be. I wouldn't have any scriptural basis for it, and no revelation or anything to aid the answer.

Thankfully, their means of coming into existance not being in the Bible doesn't take away from the actual message.

If anyone has any scripture describing their beginnings, I'd really like to hear it!...Well...Read it, I suppose

Hey Evolution Cruncher:

Do you REALLY believe the earth is flat surrounded by a "dome" (Heb. Reqiaq, "bowl") as it states in the first Creation Myth Gen 1:3? (the myth begins Gen 1:1 to 2:4a and continues in Gen chapter 5--by the same group who produced the book of the prophet Hezekiel, i.e. same writing style, syntax, phraseology, idoms, grammar, spelling and Weltanschaunng)

Do you REALLY believe that VEGETATION was created BEFORE the sun the moon and the Stars? (Gen 1:7-10)?

Do you REALLY believe in talking Snakes that walked upright before they were cursed by YHWH-ELHOHIM to crawl on their bellies? (2nd Creation Myth Beginning at Gen 2:4b)

And do you REALLY believe any of these things parallel Evolutionary theory or in any way explain the world we live in?

What kind of a world do you people think we're living in?

Originally posted by shihulud
I was wondering when were the angels and other godly creatures were created as there is no mention of them in Genesis. I thought they were supposed to have been made before man?
G

Want an opinion? I always sort of assumed that when God created the heaven the Angels were brought into existance.

Genesis 1:1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

That one verse seems , at least to me, to include everything not mentioned later. In the first two chapters of Genesis, you have the entire physical realm described, from Stars to plant and animal life.
I could be wrong, and quite possibly am, but I always thought that "In the beginning God created the heaven" meant the spirtiual realm. That would include angels, cherubs etc.

When God says "Let there be light" is that him creating Lucifer the light bringer?

I have to admit, I never made that connection before. You don't even get an opinion this time. I simply have no idea.

Here's a couple of questions for anyone who cares to answer.
1) who was Cain's wife and how did he manage to build a city with just one house (for him and his wife)?
2) If death didn't exist until the fruit eating, what did carniverous creatures eat to stay alive?



G