Albert Pike: A Man Misunderstood

Originally posted by Trinityman
Moreover, he is attributed with being a significant factor in causing continental Europe, the United States and most of the rest of the world to be driving on the wrong side of the road!

users.pandora.be...

“Visitors are informed that in the United Kingdom traffic drives on the left-hand side of the road. In the interests of safety, you are advised to practise this in your country of origin for a week or two before driving in the UK.”

Hilarious. I'm gonna try it.

"Well, you see officer, I'm going to visit the UK in a couple of weeks, and I just wanted to get in some practice on driving on the "right" side of the road... Oh, those cars I ran off the road? Ah, bugger 'em, they should have been watching...

Tally-ho then, old chap. You're holding me up and I'm dreadfully late for my daily spot of tea and crumpets..."



[edit on 8/18/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman
I find it interesting that none of the "usual suspects" as of yet have reared their ugly little heads...

What's the matter guys, can't find anything negative to say when the quotes are full and in context?

Here's a version you can copy and paste from... www.sacred-texts.com...

I'd like to see what you can come up with, and remember, full quotes, in context. For all you that think there is something nefarious in M&D, or that Pike was an evill man, or whatever, here's your chance to make your case in open forum.

Just thought I'd reiterate my challenge to those whose mouths run so fiercely in other threads to offer one quote, just one, in context, that you find debatable. I'm going to venture a guess that no one in the anti-camp can do this, reason being that the only Pike they have read is what is butchered and regurgitated on conspiracy theory and fundy Christian websites...

Still waiting...

*whistles the "Jeopardy" tune*

Axe, It seems quit on the western front. I don't think you will hear much more than the crikets.

lost in the midwest

[edit on 23-8-2005 by lost in the midwest]

Originally posted by The Axeman
I find it interesting that none of the "usual suspects" as of yet have reared their ugly little heads...

It's because your post was too perfect for them to twist something around. I think I would be actually impressed if a troll came and even attempted to go agianst your post. Good Job Your sig dude is great, I have heart that quote before and didn't know where it came from. Would you suggest non mason's read M&D?

Originally posted by The_Final
Would you suggest non mason's read M&D?

I'm not a Mason and I'm reading it in bits and pieces. Great stuff. I highly recommend it. The man was brilliant.

Originally posted by The_Final
It's because your post was too perfect for them to twist something around. I think I would be actually impressed if a troll came and even attempted to go agianst your post. Good Job

Thanks dude! I appreciate that, really.

Your sig dude is great, I have heart that quote before and didn't know where it came from. Would you suggest non mason's read M&D?

Absolutely, I would suggest it to anyone (BTW I am not a Mason, as of yet). There is much to be gained on a personal level from it, IMHO.

Actually, I just came across this passage talking about Death. Someone (I can't remember who or where, so I'll post it here) was going on and on about the skull and crossbones; how it was an evil symbol, and there was just "no place in society for that" or some such nonsense. So anyway, this doesn't say anything about the skull & bones per se, but it does mention what the S&B symbolizes. Death, the mortality of Man.

Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, Chapter 11

Death is the great Teacher, stern, cold, inexorable, irresistible; whom the collected might of the world cannot stay or ward off. The breath, that parting from the lips of King or beggar, scarcely stirs the hushed air, cannot be bought or brought back for a moment, with the wealth of Empires. What a lesson is this, teaching our frailty and feebleness, and an Infinite Power beyond us! It is a fearful lesson, that never becomes familiar. It walks through the earth in dread mystery, and lays it hands upon all. It is a universal lesson, that is read everywhere and by all men. Its message comes every year and every day. The past years are crowded with its sad and solemn mementoes; and death's finger races its handwriting upon the walls of every human habitation. It teaches us Duty; to act our part well; to fulfill the work assigned us. When one is dying, and after he is dead, there is but one question: Has he lived well? There is no evil in death but that which life makes.

Quite profound, eh?

Amazing Axeman. Once text is put into it's correct context and not misquoted it keeps the bashers hiding in the bashing threads. After nearly 3 pages there has been no comebacks. Absolutley fantastic thread and I've learned something as well thank you Axeman.

I would vote you WATS again but people might think I'm giving you special treatment

I was going to say oh what the hell you deserve it but I'm not allowed to vote for you again. But in my heart you deserve after posting a thread so informative. Thanks again

Originally posted by MrDog
Amazing Axeman. Once text is put into it's correct context and not misquoted it keeps the bashers hiding in the bashing threads. After nearly 3 pages there has been no comebacks. Absolutley fantastic thread and I've learned something as well thank you Axeman.

I would vote you WATS again but people might think I'm giving you special treatment

It's cool Axeman just got mine!

You have voted The Axeman for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

That quote from Chapter 11 was really deep, I think I will go out and buy the book when I get a chance but I got to go to Water polo practice I hope that we can make this topic Troll free I think that should be like a 10,000 ATS point award for Axeman.

Thanks guys.

Hey The_Final, do yourself a favor: don't buy it from a bookstore. It will cost you waaaay too much, like $100-$120 if I remember right. I got both my copies second-hand, for free. One was my grandfather's. You can probably find a copy of it on ebay for $20 or so, or if all else fails you can get a used copy from the Supreme Council, 33° for like $50.

But there's always these:

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

www.sacred-texts.com...

[edit on 8/23/05 by The Axeman]

Here is one for your collection Axe.

Trans: Who was the Fool, the Wiseman, the Begger, or the King, in death they are all the same.


lost in the midwest
Damm! how do you get a picture off your hard drive to the net?
Sorry I am new at this. any way its a picture of four skulls.

[edit on 23-8-2005 by lost in the midwest]

[edit on 23-8-2005 by lost in the midwest]

Originally posted by lost in the midwest

Damm! how do you get a picture off your hard drive to the net?

Check your u2u's.

Originally posted by The Axeman
But there's always these:

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

www.sacred-texts.com...

Thank you I was just about to go out to the store too...and I was packing about $35 But a $120 I am sure its a great book, but is it that great?

Originally posted by The_Final
Thank you I was just about to go out to the store too...and I was packing about $35

But a $120

I am sure its a great book, but is it that great?

I dunno I just looked around on Amazon and B&N and they look to be anywhere from $30 to $55 for paperbacks... But here's a few on ebay. I like hardcovers. I have an older "purple" and a newer reprint with a maroon cover. That's what I would do if I were you.

I don't think you will regret it, whichever way you go.



[edit on 8/23/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman
I like hardcovers.

Same here I figure I will read it online and once I get enough money Hard back here I come! So I figure since this topic is probably the first topic on Free Masonary without a Troll I am going to stop posting, unless something comes up. Its been fun and good job on the topic.

Gentlemen, I usually don't wander into the secret society section of ATS, but find myself a little bored. Since theres not many to oppose masons in this thread, I thought I would step in and ask a few questions. First let me say that no matter what I believe, it's your freewill to do whatever you want in life.

My main concern is for those who consider themselves Christians and are members of the brotherhood. What percentage of masons would you estimate call themselves christians? When masons drop out of the hood, are there more christians quitting than other faiths?

I would like to also ask about the studies of gematria, greek and hebrew done by masons. It's no secret that these subjects are studied by masons, it's a secret about what is hidden within some of the books of the bible that the masons hide from the general public. What can you tell me about these studies?

Originally posted by Ycon

My main concern is for those who consider themselves Christians and are members of the brotherhood. What percentage of masons would you estimate call themselves christians?

Probably around 95%. Pike himself, in "Morals and Dogma" (the book discussed above) talks about this. To paraphrase, he says that, in theory, Masonry is non-sectarian and all-inclusive. However, in practice, if it weren't for the admission of a few members of the Jewish faith, Masonry would be a completely Christian institution.

When masons drop out of the hood, are there more christians quitting than other faiths?

There aren't very many of anyone who actually resign, if that's what you're asking. There are several who just lose interest in participating and stop paying dues, whose names are then erased from the roll. This generally has nothing to do with the member's religion, only that the fraternity may not interest him personally.

I would like to also ask about the studies of gematria, greek and hebrew done by masons. It's no secret that these subjects are studied by masons, it's a secret about what is hidden within some of the books of the bible that the masons hide from the general public. What can you tell me about these studies?

There are some Masons who study those things, just as there are some non-Masons who do so. However, we do not "hide books of the Bible from the general public". The general public has the same access to reading materials that Masons do.

[edit on 24-8-2005 by Masonic Light]

I guess this thread will just be a "Check out what I found" thread, rather than any kind of debate. Well and good as far as I'm concerned; the relative silence only makes my point for me.

So I guess I will just use this thread to share those passages that really strike me.

Albert Pike - Morals and Dogma, Chapter Twelve

Life is no negative, or superficial or worldly existence. Our steps are evermore haunted with thoughts, far beyond their own range, which some have regarded as the reminiscences of a pre-existent state. So it is with us all, in the beaten and worn track of this worldly pilgrimage. There is more here, than the world we live in. It is not all of life to live. An unseen and infinite presence is here; a sense of something greater than we possess; a seeking, through all the void wastes of life, for a good beyond it; a crying out of the heart for interpretation; a memory, of the dead, touching continually some vibrating thread in this great tissue of mystery.

We all not only have better intimations, but are capable of better things than we know. The pressure of some great emergency would develop in us powers, beyond the worldly bias of our spirits; and Heaven so deals with us, from time to time, as to call forth those better things, There is hardly a family in the world so selfish, but that, if one in it were doomed to die--one, to be selected by the others,--it would be utterly impossible for its members, parents and children, to choose out that victim; but that each would say, "I will die; but I cannot choose." And in how many, if that dire extremity had come, would not one and another step forth, freed from the vile meshes of ordinary selfishness, and say, like the Roman father and son, "Let the blow fall on me!" There are greater and better things in us all, than the world takes account of, or than we take note of; if we would but find them out. And it is one part of our Masonic culture to find these traits of power and sublime devotion, to revive these faded impressions of generosity and self-sacrifice, the almost squandered bequests of God's love and kindness to our souls; and to induce us to yield ourselves to their guidance and control.

Upon all conditions of men presses down one impartial law, To all situations, to all fortunes, high or low, the mind gives their character. They are, in effect, not what they are in themselves, but what they are to the feeling of their possessors. The King may be mean, degraded, miserable; the slave of ambition, fear, voluptuousness, and every low passion. The Peasant may be the real Monarch, the moral master of his fate, a free and lofty being, more than a Prince in happiness, more than a King in honor.

[...]

Life is what we make it, and the world is what we make it. The eyes of the cheerful and of the melancholy man are fixed upon the same creation; but very different are the aspects which it bears to them. To the one, it is all beauty and gladness; the waves of ocean roll in light, and the mountains are covered with day. Life, to him, flashes, rejoicing, upon every flower and every tree that trembles in the breeze. There is more to him, everywhere, than the eye sees; a presence of profound joy on hill and valley, and bright, dancing water. The other idly or mournfully gazes at the same scene, and everything wears a dull, dim, and sickly aspect. The murmuring of the brooks is a discord to him, the great roar of the sea has an angry and threatening emphasis, the solemn music of the pines sings the requiem of his departed happiness; the cheerful light shines garishly upon his eyes and offends him. The great train of the seasons passes before him like a funeral procession; and he sighs, and turns impatiently away. The eye makes that which it looks upon; the ear makes its own melodies and discords; the world without reflects the world within.

This short passage, to me, sums up alot of the more paranoid conspiracy theorists' attitudes...

Not all, but some.

ibid.

To the gentle, many will be gentle; to the kind, many will be kind. A good man will find that there is goodness in the world; an honest man will find that there is honesty in the world; and a man of principle will find principle and integrity in the minds of others.

[...]

But to the impure, the dishonest, the false-hearted, the corrupt, and the sensual, occasions come every day, and in every scene, and through every avenue of thought and imagination. He is prepared to capitulate before the first approach is commenced; and sends out the white flag when the enemy's advance comes in sight of his walls. He makes occasions; or, if opportunities come not, evil thoughts come, and he throws wide open the gates of his heart and welcomes those bad visitors, and entertains them with a lavish hospitality.

[edit on 9/21/05 by The Axeman]

Albert Pike - Morals and Dogma, Chapter Fourteen

We hold that God has so ordered matters in this beautiful and harmonious, but mysteriously-governed Universe, that one great mind after another will arise, from time to time, as such are needed, to reveal to men the truths that are wanted, and the amount of truth than can be borne. He so arranges, that nature and the course of events shall send men into the world, endowed with that higher mental and moral organization, in which grand truths, and sublime gleams of spiritual light will spontaneously and inevitably arise. These speak to men by inspiration.

Whatever Hiram really was, he is the type, perhaps an imaginary type, to us, of humanity in its highest phase; an exemplar of what man may and should become, in the course of ages, in his progress toward the realization of his destiny; an individual gifted with a glorious intellect, a noble soul, a fine organization, and a perfectly balanced moral being; an earnest of what humanity may be, and what we believe it will hereafter be in God's good time; the possibility of the race made real.

The Mason believes that God has arranged this glorious but perplexing world with a purpose, and on a plan. He holds that every man sent upon this earth, and especially every man of superior capacity, has a duty to perform, a mission to fulfill, a baptism to be baptized with; that every great and good man possesses some portion of God's truth, which he must proclaim to the world, and which must bear fruit in his own bosom. In a true and simple sense, he believes all the pure, wise, and intellectual to be inspired, and to be so for the instruction, advancement, and elevation of mankind. That kind of inspiration, like God's omnipresence, is not limited to the few writers claimed by Jews, Christians, or Moslems, but is co-extensive with the race. It is the consequence of a faithful use of our faculties. Each man is its subject, God is its source, and Truth its only test. It differs in degrees, as the intellectual endowments, the moral wealth of the soul, and the degree of cultivation of those endowments and faculties differ. It is limited to no sect, age, or nation. It is wide as the world and common as God. It was not given to a few men, in the infancy of mankind, to monopolize inspiration, and bar God out of the soul. We are not born in the dotage and decay of the world. The stars are beautiful as in their prime; the most ancient Heavens are fresh and strong. God is still everywhere in nature. Wherever a heart beats with love, wherever Faith and Reason utter their oracles, there is God, as formerly in the hearts of seers and prophets. No soil on earth is so holy as the good man's heart; nothing is so full of God. This inspiration is not given to the learned alone, not alone to the great and wise, but to every faithful child of God. Certain as the open eye drinks in the light, do the pure in heart see God; and he who lives truly, feels Him as a presence within the soul. The conscience is the very voice of Deity.

Gooood schtuff.

[edit on 10/7/05 by The Axeman]

Ok, I'll bite.

A moral offence is sickness, pain, loss, dishonour, in the immortal part of man. It is guilt, and misery added to guilt. It is itself calamity; and brings upon itself, in addition, the calamity of God's disapproval, the abhorrence of virtuous men, and the soul's own abhorrence. Deal faithfully, but patiently and tenderly, with this evil! It is no matter for petty provocation, nor for personal strife, nor for selfish irritation.

Speak kindly to your erring brother! God pities him: Heaven's mercy yearns toward him; and Heaven's spirits are ready to welcome him back with joy. Let your voice be in unison with all those powers that God is using for his recovery!

What is moral?

Who is God?

That's like saying, "see, he's not evil because he says 'good' is good!"

The Mason believes that God has arranged this glorious but perplexing world with a purpose, and on a plan. He holds that every man sent upon this earth, and especially every man of superior capacity, has a duty to perform, a mission to fulfill, a baptism to be baptized with;

What pupose? What kind of duties?

This is all very vague. You could ascribe all this to any deity that you claim created the world and desires the happiness of man.

So far I don't see proof against Pike worshipping Lucifer.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by piboy]