NEWS: U.K. to Institute New Deportation Measures

Originally posted by shots
But that is not what you stated in the post I replied to is it?

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Citizens do not equal terrorists

As stated it is incorrect, I am sure you have to agree.

I don't have to agree...the statement is true...and here's why. The subject in the statement is citizens. Citizens are who we are talking about. So in the flow of logic we are asserting what citizens are. And citizens are not terrorists. Especially when viewed from the perspective of the propagated medias. The division in each story is clear. They are reporting to the citizen about the terrorists...

You could also analyze the statement from another perspective...the size of the social body. Citizens denotes a much larger group of people; terrorists denote a minority. Everyone is a citizen. Not everyone is a terrorist.

Now to have a statement that is true that includes your evidence that some of the 7/7 terrorists were citizens (we're omitting nationalities here for simplicity), you would have to change the subject. Terrorists are citizens. This would be true......

"a" will always equal "b" in math when qualified. Not so in logic. The placement in the statement is very important.

Originally posted by shots
Also allow me to point out that you are in the minority. Recent polls in the UK prove it.

Terror Laws: Are our civil liberties being eroded?
Yes 28.09% (1,596 votes)

No 71.90% (4,085 votes)
Total: 5,681 [source Skynews]

Does being in the minority necessitate that I am wrong? No. As well, the survey is a matter of opinion. Majority may largely determine the social direction, but it by no means suggests truth value. A majority of people can follow through on a less than adequate course of action....which is what we are seeing here, to put it mildly.

Allow me to offer my own survey into the discussion....

Originally posted by FredT
ATS: Half of U.S. High Schoolers: Government Censorship is Okay

In a recent study of United States high school students revealed that over one third felt that the First Amendment to the Constitution that guarantees the right to free speech goes too far. Furthermore almost fifty percent feel that media should get government approval before publishing stories. The study was commissioned by the James L. Knight Foundation.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The interesting part here is that the implication (by omission) is that the opinions demonstrated here do not seem to be invoked by the campaign on terror, but rather an ignorance of the very processes that determine the course of their lives. The next generation appears to be geared more towards acceptance of government propaganda rather than discernment of their own. If this case has a strong liklihood, then I prefer the minority.

And that is what this thread is about......the transferance of liberty to the associated state body......there are many ways to accomplish this and the threat of security is but one....but the one most prevalent at this point.

Originally posted by shots
Let me quess you are a member of the ACLU or a British equivalent right?

You're better than this, shots....

Originally posted by shots
Trust me the sky is not falling, you just think it is.

In a reality that is placing more and more emphasis on legalese and technicalities, my thoughts on the matter are justified.

Originally posted by MemoryShock

Now to have a statement that is true that includes your evidence that some of the 7/7 terrorists were citizens (we're omitting nationalities here for simplicity), you would have to change the subject. Terrorists are citizens. This would be true......

"a" will always equal "b" in math when qualified. Not so in logic. The placement in the statement is very important.

No you do not have to change the subject at all. The fact is that some of the terrorists of 7/7 were citizens there is no logic about it that is a fact and one you can take to the bank.

Can everyone not see that these terrorist acts were planned and implemented by the upper-echelons of the Brittish government - in direct correlation with the NWO - by the use of Manchurian candinates...

The sky is falling - everyone is just in a state of fear that is preventing them from thinking straight... Its the same thing that happened during the whole 9/11 incedent... The government perpertated it - in order to make the following events more "edible"...

Noam Chomsky once said something to the effect of; "The more you make people fear aliens, green-house gasses, crime and terrorism - the more control you have over them..."

Can you not see what is happening here... Freedom as we know it is being eaten away...

9/11, 7/7 - Its all to make us feel as though something needs to be done, then the government steps in with "something to do" and because we are "needing" something to be done - this gives the government completely free reign to do it...

How do you think the Patriot Act came about?
How do you think the Iraq War came about?
AND
How do you think these latest anti-"terror" legislatures came about...

Come on people, are you not familar with Pythagorous...

a2 + b2 = c2

It cant get easier than this... And to all those who said the US should take similar action... Give is a month or so, and it will happen... and then we'll soon see how it all pans out...

Originally posted by shots
No you do not have to change the subject at all. The fact is that some of the terrorists of 7/7 were citizens there is no logic about it that is a fact and one you can take to the bank.

I'm discussing the application of the legislation.....the fact that some of the terrorists pointed out as the guilty were in fact citizens does not necessitate that citizens are terrorists.......yet the legislation is geared towards the citizens......

Originally posted by MemoryShock
I'm discussing the application of the legislation.....the fact that some of the terrorists pointed out as the guilty were in fact citizens does not necessitate that citizens are terrorists.......yet the legislation is geared towards the citizens......

No the legislation is not geared towards citizens, it is geared toward terrorists.

Originally posted by shots
No the legislation is not geared towards citizens, it is geared toward terrorists.

Originally posted by ValHall
In addition to these sites being closed down, Blair is proposing prosecution of U.K. citizens found to visit these sites. No where have I heard that the prosecution will be dependent on what you do while you're there. In other words, I have heard no statement that prosecution will be dependent on you blathering plans for some violent attack, but simply that you visited.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Create some proposals for legislation that target terrorists and then slip in a caviat that greys the line between terrorist and citizen.

I believe there is also a proposal to eliminate protests in front of a legislative body.......peaceful or otherwise.....that would be a citizen targeting...

And now, an interesting quote....applicable on some level.

Tony Blair
Believe me, Charles, leave the public in blissful ignorance.

news.bbc.co.uk...

As well, allowing for the amending of human rights legislation is something that targets everyone......as it could create a precedent taht would be applicable across the board....no good...

[edit on 7-8-2005 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by MemoryShock

Create some proposals for legislation that target terrorists and then slip in a caviat that greys the line between terrorist and citizen.

I believe there is also a proposal to eliminate protests in front of a legislative body.......peaceful or otherwise.....that would be a citizen targeting...

And now, an interesting quote....applicable on some level.

Tony Blair
Believe me, Charles, leave the public in blissful ignorance.

news.bbc.co.uk...

As well, allowing for the amending of human rights legislation is something that targets everyone......as it could create a precedent taht would be applicable across the board....no good...

[edit on 7-8-2005 by MemoryShock]

Anyone can make guesses like you did above, even I, but I will not guess at anything.

Get back to me when you have some hard facts OK?

Originally posted by ValHall
In addition to these sites being closed down, Blair is proposing prosecution of U.K. citizens found to visit these sites. No where have I heard that the prosecution will be dependent on what you do while you're there. In other words, I have heard no statement that prosecution will be dependent on you blathering plans for some violent attack, but simply that you visited.

As to the above, just in case you are not aware of it this is already being done in certain parts of the world. Not with terrorist sites but websites just the same. I am talking about individuals that visit child porn sites

So what makes this any different since they are trying to spread hate? At least Britans laws allow it, I wish ours did



[edit on 8/7/2005 by shots]

@UK-Citizens:

I'ver learned on a radio station, that GB wants to deport 10 people for reasons of national security and agreements already have been reached with Jordan, Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt over guaranteeing the safety of deportees.

But none of the 10 people were identified - any idea where I could find the names of those 10 and more about this?

Here is a link to the BBC page

news.bbc.co.uk...

Here is another one with a possible name listed

news.independent.co.uk...

[edit on 11-8-2005 by nikelbee]

I think our govt is responding as well as it can towards a very difficult and complex situation. I doubt we are about to see mass deportation of Muslims because they have expressed doubts about the wisdom of the Iraq war, by the same token they'd have to deport half the population of the British Isles. They are though going to dissallow those who spew hate filled rhetoric and calls for jihad on British citizens from venting and spreading their pernicious veiws.

I am a gay man and a liberal by inclination I have absolutely no wish to see the jackboot goosestepping along the streets of my country and I don't believe, by any stretch of the imagination, that this is the first step towards that scenario. I do though believe that those this legislation is targetting would, if they had the chance, impose the kind of regime upon our people that would make any NWO conspiricy look like a childrens tea party by comparison.

This link may be of interest:
www.sky.com...

Radical cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed has been detained in Lebanon, Reuters news agency has quoted "security sources" as saying.

-Keeval-