NEWS: U.K. to Institute New Deportation Measures

I didn't see the televisions appearance. The problem with Blair is he is a master of manipulation. I admire his speaking skills, because they are truely fantastitc. The speech he gave on the eve of the Iraq war was a scorcher. I bought it hook line and sinker, but because of that one thing I can't trust the guy anymore. I didn't vote for him because he is a liar, I specifically voted liberal to register my disgust with the whole way Iraq was handled.

And this terrorism thing. He talks the talk but will he walk the walk? He might, but these groups have been operating in Britain for many years now (remember Labour have been in power for damn near 9 years) and they haven't done a damn thing. These are the people who are supposed to protect us. Actions for me will speak lounder than words because I for one am damn sick of seeing these Islamic Extremist b***ards getting away with things that if I as a white British guy said would land me at the recieving end of a witch hunt. I am so sick of a media biased towards ethnic minorities. Yes they can have their customs and we must respect them, the BBC points this out all the time but its a two way process. The time for talk is over. Get these guys out of the country. Send their families back with them to boot. Shut down all these bloody religious schools because they are of no use in the 21st century. I am not against people settling in this country. I love British multiculturalism. Several of my close and treasured friends are asian, but the difference there is that these guys and girls integrate, play a part in society and contribute. They respect and participate in British customs and I in turn respect and play a part in theirs. These facist guys are parasites, lets squash them. The last century was torn appart by hate, Nazis, the second world war etc etc. I find it tragic that at the beginning of this century we are starting to walk down the same painfull and bloody path. I just pray those in charge act, and act forcefully or things are only going to get worse.......

I agree with Enslaved

Well said

You have voted britcitusa for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

and

You have voted AgentSmith for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Both good posts and right on point.

Would have given my third to enslaved83 but did not like part of what he said.

This is a first for me, two way aboves in one thread but they are well deserved.

Now I just wish Bush and our government would get off their you know what and do the same.

[edit on 8/5/2005 by shots]

From Source Article
Blair said his government was prepared to amend human rights legislation if necessary if legal challenges arose from the new deportation measures.

Must be awfully convenient to have the capacity to rewrite the definitions and/or laws to fit the current campaign.......even more convenient to rewrite them to customize a legal defense for the State.....

Does anyone else here see this? Herein lies a legal justification where I can really say that the government has given itself the capacity to not only point an invalid finger but carry through with impunity. All by the power of a few buzzwords. Looks like the word Hate and Terrorist can be thrown around to garner support for anything.......

The inherent problem is the subjectivity of the word. People hate everything that disagrees with them and in the case of the average person, hate usually denotes somethinmg opposite from everything they think and believe.

Which is a horrible way to construct legislation. Right now, people are being subtly lead to hate Islam and Muslims. Twenty years ago, everyone hated the Commies. Fifty years ago, everyone hated the Nazis. There is always going to be an enemy and the more advanced our legislation gets, the more intricate future adendums will have to be to deal with the enemy of twenty years from now.

From the Source Article
Clerics who preach hate and Web sites or book shops that sponsor violence would be targeted. Foreign nationals could be deported under the new measures.

Great. So what books and web sites will fit the bill? Who gets to define the parameters of hate? Mr. Blair has declared that his administration now has the abililty to personalize these details as they see fit, so apparently, a definition is irrelevant. Can anyone walk up to an official and accuse any particular of hate and have their complaint taken seriously? How seriously? Almost doesn't matter.......in today's reality, the very act of being accused is enough to do the damage, in many cases irreperably. The social structure is where you'll see most of these laws find application....not terrorism. The social structure is the real aim for these new approaches. So everyone can relax and breathe a little easier knowing that someone is taking care of the problem for them.

Originally posted by shots
Under these new guidelines, anyone who has anything to do with terrorism would automatically be refused asylum and existing powers to strip people of their British nationality may be extended to apply to naturalized citizens involved in extremism.

Wow. Makes me very anxious to tackle the problem from the flip side and consider the issues of the terrorists in their current incarnation. In fact, if I were to voice my concerns and give their side lip service, as would be necessitated by any logician, I may be branded a terrorist, or sympathizer. Much easier to toe the line and repress any actual thought on the matter....

Btw....."involved in extremism".....yet more vague and broad terminology. What does it mean?

Originally posted by britcitusa
I for one,will always refuse to call a street after a foriegn martyr or god.

You and I would get along great. I can't stand to open my eyes beyond the foot I am planning to place in my mouth.

Your intention, obviously, was to express your patriotism. How you were interpreted by me was that you have no desire to learn anything about anyone different from yourself. That their perspectives and their upbringings are irrelevant and not worth consideration. I'm glad to see that your near sightedness was rewarded...

The step taken by the French Government and now by the British Government is deplorable. They aren't really addressing the problem and for all intents and purposes, all they have done is said that people not like us are bad and we will get rid of them......

9/11 wasn't perpetrated by citizens. Future terrorist activity can occur against the EU will be perpetrated by non-citizens. Let's break it down further....

Citizens live in country.

Terrorists attack country.

Some terrorists are citizens.

Do citizens necassarily equate to terrorist?

The answer is no, but the legislation is geared towards the citizenry......

[edit on 5-8-2005 by MemoryShock]

[edit on 5-8-2005 by MemoryShock]

I dont like the sounds of this one bit...

Sounds to me like almost anyone who doesn't like what the government does could be deported on charges of being in league with "Terrorists"... it cant get much more Nazi like than this... Seriously can you not see that this is a double edged sword... Sure it may prevent some terrorism, but I would say it has a greater possibility of creating MORE terrorism...

I think under this current legislature... I could be found guilty of supporting terrorism... Simply because I have a few books on guerilla-warfare, I wear Che shirts and go to protests... Does that make ME a terrorist...

This is obviously another chess peice being moved into place by the NWO... Can you people not see this... I can't beleive MemoryShock is the only person talking sense on this thread...

I can understand,that some people will look at Blair's decision,with some skeptisism.Sure,terrorism has made this,a controversial decision.However, it's not the only reason,behind it.

Putting aside recent events,we have seen major rises in hate crime, violent crime,drugs and so fourth.We also see hate crimes,between nationals of foriegn countries,who decide to use England,as their war zone.We Brit's have has it up to here with it,and these people need to either become one with us,or get the hell out.

On Christmas Eve,1987,i was living in Southall,Middlesex(which to those who don't know,is in west London.),when a knock at the door,revealed a group of people,from India,trying to obtain signatures for a petition,to send to Parliament.What their problem was,was Christmas itself.We love the feel,attitude and season of Christmas.These people were asking to change the timing of Christmas,because it hurt their businesses and interrupted,their way of life.They pointed out,that their season,Diwali,was celebrated,i believe,in November.So,the petition was to,celebrate on a date,between their holiday and ours.I wasn't very polite to them,i first told them to "go forth and multiply",then said it would be better,to take their businesses back home with them.

There was a time,that the most common name in England,was Smith, followed by Brown,then Russell.Figured now show that the number 1 name is Singh,followed by Patell.

Combine all this,with those moron's from groupd like white power,black panthers etc,and maybe you can see why,it's time for us to clean house.

Originally posted by shots
You have voted britcitusa for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

and

You have voted AgentSmith for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Both good posts and right on point.

Would have given my third to enslaved83 but did not like part of what he said.

This is a first for me, two way aboves in one thread but they are well deserved.

Now I just wish Bush and our government would get off their you know what and do the same.

[edit on 8/5/2005 by shots]

Hey Shots Im interested as to what part of the my post you didn't like? Thanks for what you said tho, Ive been after some votes for a while, so I appreciate it. Im just interested to know where we differ in opinion. Was it cos I voted Liberal hehe .

(PS Sorry to go off topic guys but Shots has sparked my curiosity and like most of you I love a good mystery )

[edit on 6-8-2005 by enslaved83]

Britcitusa - 'time to clean house' is starting to sound more and more alarmingly like what the Nazis used to tell the Germans about the Jews.

Do Muslims in the UK also eat babies?

And by the way, what is wrong with just telling the petitioners to go away? Is the US to deport all Jehova's Witnesses too?

Since when do people not have a right to petition? You dont have to agree with it, but if they are living in your country and paying taxes and contributing economically why can't they have the right to go around and carry out petitions?

Note, the BMP do it all the time - they are allowed to recruit and go around spreading their nazi-propaganda - it doesn't mean you have to join up does it?

Didn't Oliver Cromwell also try to 'cancel Christmas? Or are dictators and hate mongers more tolerated according to their skin colour?

Let's make this what this really is - an excuse to be racists hiding underneath the facade of politics and the fear of terrorism.

The government is feeding you your own terror and you are eating it up with a spoon. When they get rid of the 'unwanted' masses they will come after anyone else who is going to disagree with what they say or do. That could include all of us right now. That could mean you.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
I dont like the sounds of this one bit...

Sounds to me like almost anyone who doesn't like what the government does could be deported on charges of being in league with "Terrorists"... it cant get much more Nazi like than this... Seriously can you not see that this is a double edged sword... Sure it may prevent some terrorism, but I would say it has a greater possibility of creating MORE terrorism...

I think under this current legislature... I could be found guilty of supporting terrorism... Simply because I have a few books on guerilla-warfare, I wear Che shirts and go to protests... Does that make ME a terrorist...

This is obviously another chess peice being moved into place by the NWO... Can you people not see this... I can't beleive MemoryShock is the only person talking sense on this thread...

I don't think its a step towards the NWO and I don't think its the start of a police state in the UK. The British public would not accept such a thing. It is simply the logical course of action for a government acting on a wave of public anger.

I am very liberal in my views. I wish that everyone in the world would just get along but this just aint the case, the sad fact remains that there are people who have these views and endorse terrorism/fanaticism. When I see these guys on TV it makes my blood boil. This is the 21st centruy. We humans are supposed to be progressing and still we put up with people like this who would drag us back to the Stone Age.

I am Liberal like you ghostsoldier but these people would kill you and me in an instant and they would do it without giving a damn because you and me are filthy indfiels and are worthless to them. That is who we are dealing with here. We need to take a stand against these sorts of people who I must stress are the minority. I am not anti muslim. These people are fanatics and fanatics of any sort are bad. Remember that the London Bombers were only several in a Muslim population of 1.5 million in the UK. The thing is, anyone who publically adovcates my death/desructions of my country and friends is not someone I want in this country. He is an enemy and must be eliminated. Period.

Also we are a long way off becomming like the NAZI's. A long long way. Look at all the laws that have been brought in to make hate crimes illegal, commision for racial equality etc etc? The far right is despised in this country and the BNP operate on a very thin ice. But who cares the BNP are a joke. I watched a program a few months ago about a reporter who infiltrated their ranks. He got a photo taken of him with both Nick Griffen and Le Penn (the sick French fascist). A lot of BNP member went to jail as a result for encitement to racial hatred but what struck me the most was that the average IQ of the BNP must have been about 10. What a bunch of morons.

I think as we start this century we need to look to history. We are fighting a war against hate and prejudice. People like these fanatics polarise people against Muslims. It is the same with people like the BNP. We must take steps to deal with these views because it is fanaticism that is the problem. Not the Muslim faith. We already have laws that deal with the BNP so it si about time we had laws to deal with exremist muslim preachers.

enjoy reading this article....

www.ananova.com...

some of you have already mentioned "nazi" style, lol. im sure this guy will fit the "list" to be deported though because he's a muslim who says this.

i totally agree something must be done but also it should be well thought through as well - things are much complicated. extreme v extreme = destruction? extreme v compromise = a loss. theres no perfect world but sometimes history has its way of repeating things i think.

Originally posted by britcitusa
I can understand,that some people will look at Blair's decision,with some skeptisism.

Did you even read anything I posted......I said he was wrong and completely, flat out wrong.

Originally posted by britcitusa
Putting aside recent events,we have seen major rises in hate crime, violent crime,drugs and so fourth.We also see hate crimes,between nationals of foriegn countries,who decide to use England,as their war zone.

You don't seem to understand the problem. You have a good grasp of the headlines that keep popping up into your awareness, though......

The problems you set forth in the last quoted are more directly related to a a couple of other factors........population increase, lack of education, and intolerance displayed by folks who won't pronounce the name of a foriegn god because it offends their proper upbringing.......Population increase is an inherent problem and if you apply the law of averages and the rules of association, then drug use is going to climb. Factor in the lack of education and the percieved lack of recourse and violent crime will follow by association. The intolerance will bind to the closest person or group that is chiming up with the answer...but the irony is that a decent percentage of folk didn't realize there was a problem to begin with.....they read it in a state sponsored newspaper and decided to personalize everything...

Now. Let me backtrack a little......"Terrorists" are a problem. "They" have to be dealt with. Deportation is not dealing with them. Deportation is like scattering all the cockroaches into a nice clean box and moving them outside. What do you think the chances are that some of those cockroaches will make it back inside?

What is going to happen when all these implementations have proven futile? The witch hunt has been completed and many people have been thrown out onto their chins. The newspapers and other medias are reporting that all the problems are on the downswing and life is good. A bit of time will pass by and something will happen. Either the folks you rudely tossed on their bums without any logical discernation of their problem will come back enfueled with a deeper passion, or a new group of enemies will reach the political and global stage....

...but this time they already have a law allowing them to redefine human rights laws and deport citizens. What will they herald as the next fix-all? What will they take from you next?

Citizens do not equal terrorists.

So why is the legislation aimed at the citizenry?

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Citizens do not equal terrorists

Wrong since three out of the four 7/7 terrorists held dual citizenship some citizens do = terrorist.

So why is the legislation aimed at the citizenry?

See Above

[edit on 8/6/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Citizens do not equal terrorists

Wrong since three out of the four 7/7 terrorists held dual citizenship some citizens do = terrorist.

You caught my slip....refer to my first post in this thread to find the relevant statement......citizens do not necassarily equal terrorists.

Which makes Blair's response irrational. The new legislation is geared towards the citizenry and will effect the lives of people who are not terrorists......as well as setting a precedent to allow for the redefining of human rights definitions in response.

Nice try, shots...........the smiley really had me convinced..

Originally posted by MemoryShock

You caught my slip....refer to my first post in this thread to find the relevant statement......citizens do not necassarily equal terrorists.

Nice try, shots...........the smiley really had me convinced..

But that is not what you stated in the post I replied to is it?

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Citizens do not equal terrorists

As stated it is incorrect, I am sure you have to agree. Also allow me to point out that you are in the minority. Recent polls in the UK prove it.

Terror Laws: Are our civil liberties being eroded?
Yes 28.09% (1,596 votes)

No 71.90% (4,085 votes)
Total: 5,681 [source Skynews]

Let me quess you are a member of the ACLU or a British equivalent right?

Trust me the sky is not falling, you just think it is. All Blair is doing is what is needed and I wish Bush would do the very same..............



[edit on 8/6/2005 by shots]