As A Jew, Allow Me To Tell It Like It Is

Originally posted by JerryFletcher

Yes they are many Messainic Jews who believe Christ is the saviour.

If Jews are a race then what is the Religion?

My Grandmother wasnt Middle eastern, she was a blonde haired and blue-eyed German.

I dont place myself as an expert on this subject, I could be wrong.

Maybe we should carry this to another thread? This is gooing WAAAAY off topic.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 5-8-2005 by Amuk]

Heh, I am pretty sure my Grandmother's parents were of Jewish/Hebrew decent since she and my dad carried the distinctive facial features of the Jewish/Hewbrew race, she was a Catholic though, My Father is Atheist and my mother is raised Apostolic (Sp?) but she is an Atheist, however she has a facination with angels since she saw one, she is very new age.

So could I be Jewish too? j/k

Enough about me, 39 Drops, I salute you for coming out, I know it must be hard to be in your position, I am anti-Zionist/Israel since I do not support their views, IMHO they are the main leadership of the NWO, they already control the banks, most of the media worldwide, the diamond trade and probably a vast majority of the gold trade as well.

If you believe in the Reptillians (which many people refuse to believe), I believe there is a connection between them and the Zionist of Israel which I cannot confirm because the Reptillian race is even in UFOlogy a contraversive topic, on top of that, there is no evidence what_so_ever for it.

Thank you for this post.

according to wikipedia the is very much a duality to the term "Jewish". the term can truthfully be used to described either an ethnic group/culture or a religion. therefore, you do not have to practice Judaism to in effect be a Jew.

en.wikipedia.org...

"The word Jew (Hebrew: יהודי) is used in a wide number of ways, but generally refers to a follower of the Jewish faith, a child of a Jewish mother, or someone of Jewish descent with a connection to Jewish culture or ethnicity and often a combination of these attributes. This article discusses the term as describing an ethnic group; for a consideration of the religion, please refer to Judaism."

I hope this helps clear up some misconception.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRoshe and my dad carried the distinctive facial features of the Jewish/Hewbrew race

big noses, horns or both?

And it doesn't matter if he rejects Judaism.

The palestinians are jewish by this reckoning then.
I'll agree that its a complex issue and a sensible way to look at it is to say if your mother was jewish and you are an atheist then you are a jew, but beyond that generation it has to stop or else the term really becomes meaningless.

valerina
It's rabbinical teaching and is nowhere in the Tanach.

Not to mention that lacking a jewish mother wouldn't prevent you from going to nazi death camps, and paradoxically, if you were sent and survived, the israeli state wouldn't consider you a jew anyway.

I am a Jew/Hebrew by blood.

I think that the european jews contain very little hebrew exile blood in them however, but ethnicity is a pretty meaningless thing anways.

a lox sandwich beats out a ham or bacon dish anytime

Ok. You're a jew. I mean really, that pretty much settles it.

To be a Jew is so very different from being a zionist

I think everyone can agree that jew and zionist are not synomyous. Being 'jewish' is a religious idea, and over the centuries its become mixed up with ethnicity. A zionist is a political stance, a Zionist is an Israeli Nationalist, so to speak, or at least one who wants a state for jews in the holy land specifically (as opposed to brazil or poland)

I am the son of her daughter so am I a Jew?

I beleive that you are entitled to Israeli citizenship then, assuming that your grandmother and mother are 'registered' with a temple thru a bah mitzvah or somesuch probably.
Shalom Amuk!

you really sidetracked yourself

He wasn't the one who started this intersting line of what is and isn't a jew.

Where are the Canaanites? Where are the Babylonians? Where are the Sumerians?

In canaan, babylon, and sumeria. They are called palestianians, jews, marsh arabs, etc. Ethnicity and race are empty concepts without much biological reality. We don't talk about sumerians anymore simply because there aren't any people calling themselves that, whereas we have lots of people today who call themselves "jews" even tho they have nothing to do with a tribe of goat-herding pastoralists that flourished in the levant.

I put this stuff first and then a response to what you wanted to get at last so we can be assured that it is addressed. If you'd like we can have a discussion about this kind of stuff in the chit chat or religion forum

Originally posted by 39 drops of solder
What alarms me the most, at times, that my own brethren have no idea that they are being used as dupes just like the Arabs/Muslims are.

Ever think that perhaps you've been duped by anti-semitic propaganda?

But (probably) 97% of the Jews/zionists support the State of Israel

Indeed they should. The rest of the world has repeatedly tried to exterminate the jews. They should hold up in their homeland and make sure that they can allways fend for themselves, just like everyone else on the planet does.

vWhat truly troubles me is, Jews these days are treating Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims as if they rule them, like little Hitlers

Absurd. The Palestinians engaged in war with Israel. The yehudis defeated them and occupied their land. That is the nature of loosing a war, you get occupied. In that occupation, the yehudis have not

1. Called for the extermination of all palestinians
   
2. Rounded them up in slave labour Camps
   
3. Revoked the Citizenships rights of peaceful palestinians and other arabs who live in Israel proper
   
4. Herded them into gas chambers and murdered them
   

To say that the Israelis are acting like hitler is assinine. If they were, there
'd be no such thing as a 'palestinian' except in history books and museum displays. The palestinians started and lost a war. They refused to accept peace. They were given everything except an independant capital within jerusalem and property within Israel proper, and they turned it down. They still have not made a peace treaty with the yehudis, and for the past few decades their 'leader' has been an international terrorist who organized a militiary uprising against Israel when he didn't get jerusalem.
The palestinians are getting precisely what is just in this situation. They refuse to fight against the israelis, because they are too weak to actually do so. And they refuse to have peace with israel, because they are apparently unwilling to accept a 'humiliation' of formally admiting what is fact, that they were defeated decades ago.

Jews are very bias, unfair and deliberately ransacking any dreams the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims may have had after the fall of the Ottoman Turkish Empire.

The palestinians lost any such claims to 'dreams' when they attacked another country and lost.

It's a disgrace to be a Jew in this ongoing bloodbath. This is truly arrogance.

Its ignorant to say that this is a holocaust like 'bloodbath'. The israelis attack militants within their own occupied territory, in an attempt to prevent a third large-scale attack from the militant groups around them.


[edit on 5-8-2005 by Nygdan]

just voted 39 drops!!

good reading...good point!!

Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear
(It was late, and I was quite outraged at someone professing to be a Jew against holactic law - No excuses - other than to say because this is a public forum I did restrain my outrage).

One from Israel/Zion is a Hebrew. A Heb, is offered the option of becoming a Jew - if this option is exercised he is then a Jew, if not he remains a Heb.
Also, although one can convert to become a Jew - the converted one is not in fact a Jew (Maintained by hard liners) - One requirement to be a "true Jew" is the Hebrew linage.

Jews cannot eat ham, Heb's can - as the Jews made the deal with G-d to forgo "unclean" foods - eg. To eat Kosher foods only. So anyone holding a ham sandwich and claiming to be a Jew is not a Jew. Nor is one who keeps their milk in the same refrigerator as their meat. or using the same knife to slice both foods.

Judeoism is matriarchal - passed down from the mothers side of the family Concept is that you may not realy know who your father is, but that you will know who your mother is.

---
Yes, Christ was a Jew (orthidox by my understanding)
As for Christianity, Think of the RCC as a Jewish sect run by the Italians.

So the idea of Jews for Christ is not quite as obserd as it may seem.
---

No to get back on topic.
Just because one is a Heb. does not require that they agree with the political stand taken by Israel and I am pleased to see that the entire world is not following Israels politics blindly - just because Sharon and his cohorts say it should be this way does not make Sharon correct.

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by dancer


You can't claim to be a Jew and eat a ham sandwich.

Hang on just a second. I'm not saying this guy is telling the truth or not, but you seem to be a bit mixed up here yourself.

He's a Jew by blood if his mother is a Jew by blood...period. Doesn't matter if he takes mayonnaise or mustard with that ham sandwich. And it doesn't matter if he rejects Judaism.

*This message has been brought to you by the Committee to Deny Ignorance...Now back to your regularly scheduled argument.*

Amen Valhall

I know many christians that say they are christians,,,read the bible,,,go to church and no nothing of Christ.

More than likely Christ would probably tell ya,,,your better of not reading that book,,,it will only scare ya, make ya think your an authority, and make ya mad

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by dancer
You can't claim to be a Jew and eat a ham sandwich.

Hang on just a second. I'm not saying this guy is telling the truth or not, but you seem to be a bit mixed up here yourself.

He's a Jew by blood if his mother is a Jew by blood...period. Doesn't matter if he takes mayonnaise or mustard with that ham sandwich. And it doesn't matter if he rejects Judaism.

Valhall is mistaken, He is not a Jew by blood, he is a Heb by blood.
(I do understand the confusion as I once thought they were the same thing - took a Rabbi to clarify it for me)

Also note, Holy Scripture does not give leeway as to what is a Jew, there are no levels of Judaism (No such thing as a refomJew, or conservative Jew According to the Orthodoxy). Therefore according to G-ds covenant - if you accept being a Jew you therefore accept the covenant of Judasm you are forbiden by G-d (By contract with G-d) to Eat unclean things of which pork is amongst (also including Clams, shrimp, lobster). You are no kind of Jew in G-ds Eyes.


[edit on 8/5/2005 by dancer]

Thank you 39 drops of solder for an informative and amusing post. I have a lot of jewish friends and few dare to speak like you do.

It's possible to be a 'Christian Jew' if you have a Jewish mother and convert to christianity. That was common in earlier times at least.

[edit on 7-8-2005 by Niclas]

Originally posted by Niclas
It's possible to be a 'Christian Jew' if you have a Jewish mother and convert to christianity. That was common in earlier times at least.

Er......
Your information is Questionable - But essentially acceptable.

A Jewish mother gives birth to a Hebrew child, It is then up to that child to decide if they want to make a deal with G-d and become a Jew.

Based on the Origional concept of Christ being a Jew it would be acceptable for a Jew to recogniise Christ.

Although it is questionable if A Jew would recognise Christ as the Messiah, as the Messiah marks 1,000 years of peace - that which Jesus failed to fufill as the mark of the Messiah.

[edit on 8/7/2005 by dancer]

Crakeur, Yes, Bumped nose, I don't carry this trait however, my wife has it too, but it could be linked to Native American as well, honestly we don't know her ethinicy exactly.

There is rumour of having a Indonesian ancestor or even a Black ancestor in my father's family, so that is what it could come from as well.

Originally posted by dancer

Originally posted by Niclas
It's possible to be a 'Christian Jew' if you have a Jewish mother and convert to christianity. That was common in earlier times at least.

Er......
Your information is Questionable - But essentially acceptable.

A Jewish mother gives birth to a Hebrew child, It is then up to that child to decide if they want to make a deal with G-d and become a Jew.

In today's society I guess you are freer in your choice than, say, in the 19th century. But since Jews were commonly disliked in Europe in those times some took the chance to convert, for example women who married Christians. They were still considered Jews, but conversion showed that you esteemed Christian culture and could probably ease negative opinion to some extent.

Originally posted by Amuk
-

We have "Jews" in our family that came from Germany a few years before and right after WW2. My Grandmother was one. I am the son of her daughter so am I a Jew?

Yes Amuk,

you are a Jew.


A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.. ( It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do.)


Furthermore, you are are eligible for Israeli citizenship

(Israel's "Law of Return" confers Israeli citizenship to Jews automatically [so you would not explicitly requested Israeli citizenship and are thus still entitled to keep your 1st citizenship])



MAZEL TOV - baruch haba chaver

Rebekka




[edit on 8-8-2005 by Riwka]

Originally posted by 39 drops of solder

The concept of a child with a Jewish mother therefore makes him (or her)automatically a Jew is an 18th century concept.

[....]

If someone wants to hold to the traditional belief, that is, the Tanakh, that a parent is Jewish, and carries that bloodline to the next child, then he or she is Jewish.

That is wrong.

The Torah does not specifically state anywhere that matrilineal descent should be used; however, there are several passages in the Torah where it is understood that the child of a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man is a Jew, and several other passages where it is understood that the child of a non-Jewish woman and a Jewish man is not a Jew.

In Deuteronomy 7:1-5,

G-d says "he [ie, the non-Jewish male spouse] will cause your child to turn away from Me and they will worship the gods of others."

No such concern is expressed about the child of a non-Jewish female spouse. From this, we infer that the child of a non-Jewish male spouse is Jewish (and can therefore be turned away from Judaism), but the child of a non-Jewish female spouse is not Jewish (and therefore turning away is not an issue).

Leviticus 24:10 speaks of the son of an Israelite woman and an Egyptian man as being "among the community of Israel" (ie, a Jew).

On the other hand, in Ezra 10:2-3, the Jews returning to Israel vowed to put aside their non-Jewish wives and the children born to those wives. They could not have put aside those children if those children were Jews.




[edit on 8-8-2005 by Riwka]

So, you claim to be a Jew? Does that give you some kind of special powers?
You told it as you think, not how it is. You gave nothing but opinion, not one little, small, miniscule fact.

That is to say, you wasted time and space.

I hope this post solves the mystery of Who is a Jew?

The Torah does not specifically state anywhere that matrilineal descent should be used. In the passages, that Riwka quoted from, Deuteronomy 7:15, Leviticus 24:10 and Ezra 10:2-3, it is inferred that a Jew, whether male or female, born from a Jewish mother, is therefore, a Jew, whereas, a Jew, whether male or female, born from a non-Jewish mother, is not Jewish.

I rang up my Rabbi (Rabbi Weg) to confer with him about this particular subject, and I asked him, can you explain to me, specifically, who and what a Jew is? (I explained to him why I needed the information, but anyway, this is what he said)

Today, application of Jewish law is left to the local Rabbi and the local rabbinical courts, with only local applicability. (by the way, I am paraphrasing)

He went on to say, (paraphrase), The Torah does not say that a male or female born from a Jewish mother is a Jew, but it is derived from the following:

Halakha (a religious system, that represents the will of God, Jewish oral law interpreting the Torah) has these parts:

200 AD by Rabbi Judah the Prince, Talmudic literature (Mishna/Babylonian Talmud)

Post-Talmudic (Maimonides' Mishneh Torah and the Shulkhan Arukh)

Ordinances, regulations enacted by rabbis and communal bodies

Customs, commentary practices, customary law and exemplary deeds of prominent and local Rabbis

She'eloth u-teshuuoth (questions and answers format)


The above-mentioned makes up the Halakha.

The Halakha (meaning the correct way or the path that one walks from Heh-Lamed-Kaf), 500 BCE defines a Jew as someone, male or female, who is either:

1. the child of a Jewish mother (matrilineal descent)

or

2. A person who converts.

So who is a Jew? (Mhu Yehudi?). It is inferred by Orthodox Judaism that a Jew is a Jew if he or she is born from a Jewish mother, taught by those who follow the Rabbinical Tradition (Rabbinites) the last 1,800 years.

In Israel, any parent who is Jewish, the child, male or female, is a Jew unless one converted (then he or she is not consdiered a Jew or one who has the power of return).

Original name for Jew was Hebrew (actually, personally, I prefer to be called Hebrew, but Jew is such an acceptable way to describe a Jew, that Jew or Hebrew is fine with me). Hebrew aka Ivri (as in Genesis 14:13). Also, the word Jew is derived frmo Yehudi which was derived from Judah.

So I hope I helped define what or who a Jew is. Though Riwka stated passages that Orthodox Jews/Hebrews rely on to answer on the issue of who is a Jew, it is inferred not specified as to who is a Jew.

Riwka is right if one cares to infer, but as I said in a previous post, no where in the Torah or Tanakh does it state specifically, that unless a male or female child is born from a Jewish mother one must be Jewish.

I was born from a Jewish mother and a Jewish father who both had orthodox Jewish parents, so even though I am an atheist, I am still a Jew (or Hebrew).

I hope this ends this subject; for the reason I have not replied to any posts is because this thread was moved to the "conspiracies in religion" section or its rightful place (Amuk started the thread from this thread), and this section's topic is about the New World Order. But I thought I should answer because the Super Moderator came into play, and I would not like to lose my account over such a topic as this.

Anyway, thanks for your time, Edward

[edit on 8/8/2005 by 39 drops of solder]

[edit on 8/8/2005 by 39 drops of solder]

[edit on 8/8/2005 by 39 drops of solder]

let a real Jew, no offence, answer this question.
1. there are 3 main types of Judaism: Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox
Reform believes in the main aspects of Judaism, but doesn't follow strict Jewish law. Orthodox follows in traditional Jewish law. Conservative is in the middle. It follows Jewish law but allows for modernization.(Im conservative)
2. your Jewish if your mother is Jewish but Reform will accept both. If you convert through reform, the orthodox and coservative wont accept you and if you conver through conservative, the orthodox wont accept you. The reason it's by your mother is because in biblical times you always knew who the mother was.
3. there is a sect called humanistic Judaism that doesn't believe in God but still follows som practices because it holds the community together.
4. the same way i support america but dont always agree withits polocies, I support Israel while not always agreeing with its polocies. I believe that we have to look at the whole picture and cant demonize the group because of the actions of a few. that goes for both sides. we should stop calling terrorists militants. a militant targets an army, while a terrorist targets civilians.

"And the mighty hand of Pete slays the ignorants." Pete:1.7

Jew·ish:
Of or relating to the Jews or their culture or religion. See Usage Note at Jew
dictionary.reference.com...

Jew:
An adherent of Judaism as a religion or culture.
A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism.
A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Judah.
dictionary.reference.com...

He's as much a Jew as I am a Native American.
The Dictionary is your friend.

[edit on 8/8/2005 by Odium]