Race Wars......UK

Well it was bound to happen with all the bombings and attempted bombings happening in the UK.

The backlash has started against the racial minority. A young black person was racially abused along with his cousin and girlfriend and then murdered with an axe.

news.bbc.co.uk...

This along with other race incidents, which in some areas are 3 or 4 times the norm, compared with statistics from last year (according to police figures). These incidents range from verbal abuse right through to leaving decapitated pigs at mosques and also firebombing of mosques.

As a side note I was travelling through town today (a NW town, population approx 35,000) and did notice a man in the town centre who had set up a stall along the main shopping road, he was handing out political leaflets that mirrored BNP views and ideals. This I have never seen before in this town, as the town is a bit of a backwater and there are currently no elections or re-elections.

Obviously some certain political parties are going to 'make hay when the sun shines' but where will this lead????

Spacemunkey

There is nothing to tie this sad incident to the bombing incidents.

Yes, there have been some small reports of retaliation against the Muslim community in Leeds.

This guy was not a Muslim, he was a Christian. He was killed in a vicious attack because of the color of his skin. Not because he was a Muslim or had any connections with the Muslim Community.

i don't think this will start a race wars but definitely add great tension between the races.

it's quite a shame what happened to that kid. makes you wonder why are we intruding in other countries when we haven't fixed problems in our own backyards? (USA and UK)

If there are no more terrorist attacks then there will probably be a return to attack normality (God what a grotesque term). What we will probably see is a brief spike in the membership/interest in the right wing parties but I reckon it will only be a short term thing.

It worries me though. I have a lot of Asian friends and I fear that they might be prejudiced against by your average moron on the street simply because of the actions of a few radical murdering muslim extremist slimebags and these guys are Hindu's/Catholics etc etc, but I bet your everage BNP member wouldn't know the difference. As always its the same old story of a few idiots spoiling it for everyone else. It annoys me because I love the fact that we have a tolerant multicultural society in England.

What we need to see happen is as follows:

1) Instant deportation and a banning order for life if any muslim cleric is caught preching hate. Hell, deport his family as well, see how he likes it.
2) Shut down our bloody shambolic Asylum system and put the cash into the NHS, railways, schools or something else worthwhile.
3) End our participation in these stupid human rights treaties. (What about the rights of these preachers-well what about my right to walk down the street knowing Im safe from some extreme muslim).
4) Shut down these Jihaddist websites dealing with bomb making. Do this via hackers, whats that illegal you say, well tough. Make it top secret so that full deniability is there.
5) Make every Imam conform to a ridgid interpration of Islam which promots peace. (I know this is mainly the case anyway)
6) Have all imams versed in the English language (some don't speak it at all)
7) Establish a government run center to train up Imams for this country and don't import them from middle eastern hell holes.
8) Establish Islamic centers here so people don't have to travel to Pakistan and get exposed to these views.
9) Address the issues that make young British Muslims so angry that they wan't to blow themselves up. It takes away their justification for such acts from a propaganda sense.

If the Government does this and is very loud and public about it all, people will think that the situation is under control and their interest in right wing parties will fail. A lot of what the BNP does is to play on peoples fear of the unknown. If people know the government is doing something these messages will sound hollow.

A couple of extremists acting like the barbaric extremists they are - whether right-wing racists or Muslim nutters - is going to change nothing in the UK.
They are not representitive no matter how much they fool themselves that 'one spark' is all it takes.

Different 'races' are far too widely embedded into the British nation for any cretinous racist oafs and their risible notions of 'racial purity' to be taken seriously by any but the deluded fringe.

Thankfully.

Pity the innocent handful caught in these nasty fool's schemes in the meantime.

i will say one thing, crime in britain is extremely high, far higher than the police are prepared to admit. Their figures have been doctored for years, this present an excellent opportunity for them to catch up, reveal the real figures and claim it was just an increase caused by the bombings, when in reality is has been there all along.
people get stabbed to death every day for no reason, it has been going on for at least 10 years, and nobody has even given a f**k. Now im supposed to believe they really care about people dying in the bombings, i know they dont really give a f**k. I ve been trying to get people to do something about it but they just claim lack of resources, resources certainly havent been a problem since 7/7.
uk police are scum, that is a fact, as much as the uk is great, the police are terrible, beyond words terrible.
they are just taking the chance to update their figures.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by AdamJ]

You can rave on all you like AdamJ but you are simply posting unsubstiated rhetoric.

The facts are that the UK is one of the safest places in the world to live and we do not have an especially high level of crime when compared internationally.
(Of course if you just take it upon yourself to blithely dismiss all the figures and statistics collected by the umteen respected bodies that collect such things - based on what one can only wonder - as lies then I suppose you can believe and claim whatever you like, who needs such inconvenient stuff like facts and evidence ......

.....but the truth is much of the rest of the world knows the reality and it is a prime reason why many of them can appreciate the country and would like to come and live here)

It's not perfection (but then again much of 'our problems' are confined to certain areas at certain times) but to make the kind of claims you just have is such an exaggerated ludicrous travesty.


[edit on 30-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

no its not, i know what i am talking about. they have been in denial about the increases in certain types of crime.
Crime is not going to go up 4x just on the London bombings.
i dont have to substantiate anything i have seen how it works in real life, thats good enough for me. crime stats are some of the most manipulated that are out there.
not long before they privatize the police serivce, god knows what it'll be like then

[edit on 30-7-2005 by AdamJ]

What is happening is that people are frightened of this suicide bomb attack that kills innocent people. Muslims have allowed this to happen , they don't stop them. If it continues im afraid the Muslim population will be subjected to retaliation by people who think the answer is to rid this country of Muslims.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
What is happening is that people are frightened of this suicide bomb attack that kills innocent people. Muslims have allowed this to happen , they don't stop them. If it continues im afraid the Muslim population will be subjected to retaliation by people who think the answer is to rid this country of Muslims.

yep, its the same thought process the other way around.
We are attacking a muslim country, the british people have allowed this to happen so the british people will suffer retaliation by muslims who think that they deserve punishment.

seems we are reponding to terrorism with terrorism, we have had several mosques firebombed here in the states with molotovs. I think if your a radical who is a foreign national or have received citizenship and your not born here, and your caught in extremesist activity you should be deported and your citizenship revoked. would be a good start

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
You can rave on all you like AdamJ but you are simply posting unsubstiated rhetoric.

Well as far as the British cops being "scum" go I will have to side with AdamJ on that.
Having had many years of first hand experience with them back in the 80's, nothing but boot boys in uniform.
False arrests were common, police beating were common, police enticing a reaction were common, racism was rampant, no "probable cause"....I could not go anywhere in my car, or on my Lamby without getting pulled over.
But that's just the tip, I could write pages on the British police force and my experience of their methods.

Anyway, I'd hate to imagine what they're like now.
Or maybe not? I'm forgetting Jean Charles de Menezes.

Originally posted by AdamJ

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
What is happening is that people are frightened of this suicide bomb attack that kills innocent people. Muslims have allowed this to happen , they don't stop them. If it continues im afraid the Muslim population will be subjected to retaliation by people who think the answer is to rid this country of Muslims.

yep, its the same thought process the other way around.
We are attacking a muslim country, the british people have allowed this to happen so the british people will suffer retaliation by muslims who think that they deserve punishment.

Im sure that Iraq is a factor but I think your statement is rather unfair for two reasons. Firstly these people don't need any justification for their attacks. They hate the west and want to kill. They could use anything they wanted like for example "someone farted near the mosque the other day. I must avenge that fact!" But they choose Iraq.

You are right in that Iraq has turned us into a bigger target. The problem with these terrorist/muslims who justify these attacks is as follows. When Westerners attack Muslims, there is a God awfull riot. Oh the pius Muslims faceing the Imperialists! What doesn't get a mention, EVER, is what MUSLIMS are doing to christians in the Sudan and what Sodamn Insane did to the Marsh Arabs, oh and the Kurds (except he gassed them there). I didn't see Muslims marching in the street giving anything close to a flying f*** about them. So you see these extremists (and indeed many Muslims) are rather subjective with their facts when trying to justify what is nothing but plain old murder but even so, its not like that matters to them.

As for the British people letting the Iraq war happen, hmmmm, thats not really the case either. You should have seen the protests that went on against the Iraq war before Blair and his cronies decided to go into action. They were the Biggest protests in British History. 1 MILLION people alone in the capital protested. Manchester where I live ground to a halt while the protest went on there. But its not like this mattered to Blair either because the decision to go to war had been made years ago.

Back on topic, I think that the comments about British sensibilities are true. For me the right wing are a bunch of morons. The average BNP member has an IQ of about 10. I watched a documentary about them where a BBC journalist infiltrated their ranks. I couldn't stop laughing at how thick they all were. Most people know this, but there is a genuine concern within this country about the Muslim population. It needs to get its own house in order and it needs the government to help it do this. The issues driving young British problems need also to be addressed.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by enslaved83]

Im sure that Iraq is a factor but I think your statement is rather unfair for two reasons. Firstly these people don't need any justification for their attacks. They hate the west and want to kill. They could use anything they wanted like for example "someone farted near the mosque the other day. I must avenge that fact!" But they choose Iraq.

Maybe, but how do you know that. there is no way to tell. I would agree that that is what these people are like whether muslim or british, but usually people are not born wanting to kill themselves or other people, that is something that happens in their life from things they experience.
So to really understand people you have to find out what is motivating them, i am guessing just like you, i think motivations are different for every single person, everyone has a different experience, but i think Iraq probably plays a part at the moment, i dont see how anyone could claim for sure that is doesnt.

You are right in that Iraq has turned us into a bigger target. The problem with these terrorist/muslims who justify these attacks is as follows. When Westerners attack Muslims, there is a God awfull riot. Oh the pius Muslims faceing the Imperialists! What doesn't get a mention, EVER, is what MUSLIMS are doing to christians in the Sudan and what Sodamn Insane did to the Marsh Arabs, oh and the Kurds (except he gassed them there). I didn't see Muslims marching in the street giving anything close to a flying f*** about them. So you see these extremists (and indeed many Muslims) are rather subjective with their facts when trying to justify what is nothing but plain old murder but even so, its not like that matters to them.

As for the British people letting the Iraq war happen, hmmmm, thats not really the case either. You should have seen the protests that went on against the Iraq war before Blair and his cronies decided to go into action. They were the Biggest protests in British History. 1 MILLION people alone in the capital protested. Manchester where I live ground to a halt while the protest went on there. But its not like this mattered to Blair either because the decision to go to war had been made years ago.

i think that muslims are probably just as bad as christians but i am no expert on that.
I dont agree about the british public, people can say anything they like but at the end of the day it comes down to our vote. Pople say lots of things, but when it comes down to them making an individual private choice it might be quite different. The fact is that Tony Blair is the prime minister and was re-elected. I can actualy understand why that would annoy alot of people, it gives the impression that the majoirity of the country do not care about Iraq, which might annoy some people.
So thats my opinion.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by AdamJ]

Originally posted by AdamJ

Maybe, but how do you know that. there is no way to tell. I would agree that that is what these people are like whether muslim or british, but usually people are not born wanting to kill themselves or other people, that is something that happens in their life from things they experience.
So to really understand people you have to find out what is motivating them, i am guessing just like you, i think motivations are different for every single person, everyone has a different experience, but i think Iraq probably plays a part at the moment, i dont see how anyone could claim for sure that is doesnt.

I see what your saying. Experiences are different for everyone. But some sort of pattern/conditioning is appearing. Isn't interesting how many suicide bombers are angry young muslim men? Something is going wrong and it needs to be addressed, we need to help these guys before they strap on the belt. We need to find out just what it is that is making these people so angry. One of the London bombers has recently said he was moved by picture of weeping Iraqi mothers. That would move me as well. The question is, why doesn't the media show this! Your right on the Iraq thing. Indeed what I was trying to say is that these hardcore Islamist guys like Osama quite often don't need justifications for their acts. In this case however, it would appear that it has been a driving force . A lot of people have been killed and a lot of people are angry. It has polarised a lot of people in the middle east against the UK so thanks for that one Tony.

i think that muslims are probably just as bad as christians but i am no expert on that.
I dont agree about the british public, people can say anything they like but at the end of the day it comes down to our vote. Pople say lots of things, but when it comes down to them making an individual private choice it might be quite different. The fact is that Tony Blair is the prime minister and was re-elected. I can actualy understand why that would annoy alot of people, it gives the impression that the majoirity of the country do not care about Iraq, which might annoy some people.
So thats my opinion.

I don't think its a case of which religion is worse. SOOOOOO many appauling things have been done in the name of religion. Religious Fanatics are the issue because wherever you get them you get problems. Examples: well Jewish Settlers in the West Banks who believe they have a biblical right to be there, Hamas extremists who think they are one a Holy crusade against the Jew, right wing Christian in America who are extremely intollerant in their views, Hindu extremists in India blowing up mosques, Sunni vs Shia extremists, the Balkans and so on and so on. Far right thinking which all these people share (im specifically referring to their intollerant views) is the cause of so amny of the worlds problems.

As for Blair, I specifically voted Liberal Democrat with Iraq as the sole reason for my vote to register my disgust with him. Indeed it worked because we kicked out the labour MP in South Manchester which was a shock defeat for Labour. The trouble is Britain has done well economically under Blair. People have jobs and thus have all the things they need. Iraq was only one of many different factors in the British election. Additionally there was a lot of fatigue on the subject. People were sick of hearing about it. People would turn off their tvs everytime the subject cropped up so it wasn't as big an issues as it should have been.

The far right is unlikely to rise in this country but people are going to care less and less about issues effecting Muslims the more bombings there are in Britain and that is just as bad for them from their point of view. Politicians, media, young muslims need to talk. Issues must be addressed.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by enslaved83]

I agree with everything you said.
You are right about the economy i think, that was what won it for them, funny thing though in my opinion, i dont think i would vote for a government based on the economy personally. Because i think they dont have as much control over it as theyd like to think, it runs its own course, they love to take credit when its going well and shift blame when its going badly, but i dont think that whoevers in power really has a big say in the economy.
The UK has to move towards service sector employement, so that is the general strategy, but what exaclty could any governement to to change the fundamentals of our economic position in the world even if it wanted to.
Losing jobs in indusrty is just unpreventable, if you are the mugs in charge when it happens then you just have to live with that, theres no way you can compete with cheap eastern labour.
So the economy is doing well, great, but how much is that really down to gordon brown, thats what id like to know. I suspect he doesnt really have enough power to do anything if it takes a turn for the worse, high street spending is the big thing isnt it, yet we are almost all on credit to support that, so what happens when the credit trend starts reversing? we cant go on increasing our credit forever.
i am skeptical of our economic situation personally, but thats a whole different subject from the race wars thing. so ill shut up.

Originally posted by AdamJ
I agree with everything you said.
You are right about the economy i think, that was what won it for them, funny thing though in my opinion, i dont think i would vote for a government based on the economy personally. Because i think they dont have as much control over it as theyd like to think, it runs its own course, they love to take credit when its going well and shift blame when its going badly, but i dont think that whoevers in power really has a big say in the economy.
The UK has to move towards service sector employement, so that is the general strategy, but what exaclty could any governement to to change the fundamentals of our economic position in the world even if it wanted to.
Losing jobs in indusrty is just unpreventable, if you are the mugs in charge when it happens then you just have to live with that, theres no way you can compete with cheap eastern labour.
So the economy is doing well, great, but how much is that really down to gordon brown, thats what id like to know. I suspect he doesnt really have enough power to do anything if it takes a turn for the worse, high street spending is the big thing isnt it, yet we are almost all on credit to support that, so what happens when the credit trend starts reversing? we cant go on increasing our credit forever.
i am skeptical of our economic situation personally, but thats a whole different subject from the race wars thing. so ill shut up.

I know what you mean about the economy. It may all be just luck. Someone once told me that the reason it is doing well at the moment is because the conservatives before had some really good long term policies. Since I know next to nothing about economics, Im gonna be quiet as well!

I know Ive probably mentioned before that Muslims need to sort their own house out and they need help, well I think the media needs to help as well. Watching the news this morning I observed that it doesn't matter who you are or where you are, if you are an extreme muslim cleric anywhere in the world, the press will go ape sh** for you and in a fit a hyisteria will broadcats your message while the guys who actually take a stand and say hey you are wrong and killing is wrong get nothing. There is a thread going on in the news network you guys should check out:

www.atsnn.com...

I find it interesting because it appears that the governemnt has finally figured this point out. Now all we need to do is get the mainstream media to forget about OBL. Next time he sends a video? Forget about it, throw it in the bin where he belongs? Next time some Jihadist nutter blows himself up in Israel, concentrate on the Israeli victims. Highlight the issues and but don't dwell on this message of hatred. Show the bloody aftermath so that young muslims can see that terror is not something that effects governemnt policy in any way.(Indeed it is the real focus of their anger) It is in fact something that effects ordinary people like them. And again I reinforce the point. THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO DEAL WITH WHAT IS MAKING THESE KIDS SOOOOO ANGRY! Can you hear me Tony? Can you, can you drag yourself away from George just for two minutes and listen to the public your supposed to represent?

[edit on 1-8-2005 by enslaved83]

By the way "race war" my a$$.

Huyton is an area with few black people.

I wasn't pointing out a race war in Huyton.

I was pointing out the fact that a person of ethnic origin was attacked for the colour of his skin, which is one of many more incidents, as a whole, right across the UK, that may lead to further racial tensions.

Spacemunkey

[edit on 2-8-2005 by spacemunkey]

If you don't mean a "race war" then why be so melodramatic and use the term in connection with this terrible sick event?

I am well aware that there is a low-level of constant racist/sectarian attacks going on at the moment in the UK.

Attacks on Muslims have soared in London since the 7 July bombings, according to police figures.
There were 269 "religious hate" crimes, compared with 40 in the same period last year, the figures show.

Most were verbal abuse or minor assaults, but also include damage to property, including mosques and have a great "emotional impact", police said.

news.bbc.co.uk...

- Britain's racist element are doing nothing other than using current tensions as an excuse.
So why inflate the situation beyond it's reality?
You might cool it a little and concentrate on what most people are up to.

Instead of the actions of a couple of nutters how about the vigil in Liverpool tonight involving hundreds, huh?

Hundreds of people have attended a vigil in memory of murdered black teenager Anthony Walker.
Members of Anthony's close family were among the crowd which gathered at St George's Hall in Liverpool city centre.

news.bbc.co.uk...

- This was nothing to do with a "race war" it was simply the typical sordid and senseless abuse and violence of a defenceless young black lad by cretins looking for an excuse (and even though he was a devout Christian, the 'excuse' being the current unthinking Muslim nonsense - anyone referring to his killers as crazed 'Christians, hmmm?).

The people that murdered that young lad - without any provocation whatsoever - were bullying abusive hate-filled low-life, they were dangerous racists before, during and after the event.
If anyone is pretending recent events (ie the London attacks) was any excuse for this attack (or 'cause') they're simply talking garbage.

[edit on 2-8-2005 by sminkeypinkey]