Marx giving masonic handsign?

actually, you dont seem to know the meaning of eavesdropper either. This is not a person, but a punishment imposed on someone you consider an "eavesdropper".

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Uh, it's not too hard to look up.

Cowan

"However derived the word is now wholly the property of the Fraternity, not otherwise used, and means to moderns an uninstructed and ignorant person, one not of the Fraternity, just as eavesdropper means to us one who attempts to gain the secrets of Masonry unlawfully"

Big whoop. I say, let him say whatever he wants, hopefully he'll realize how stupid all this is afterall.

Your quote above is incorrect. A cowan is actually one who attempts to pass himself off as a Freemason illegally. It means a masonic impostor.

A profane, on the other hand, is someone who has not been initiated or is not part of the masonic fraternity.

Both of these terms are used in masonic contexts only.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Your quote above is incorrect. A cowan is actually one who attempts to pass himself off as a Freemason illegally. It means a masonic impostor.

Does that mean not masonic in any way, or is that term used referring to non-recognized (for what ever reason) masons also?

1. Wiggy

I like your verb "dispel" as the command portion of the byline dealing with knowledge vacuum, better than "denial", which never really described anything but a stupid tit-for-tat argument.

Keep up the good work.



2. Karl Marx was not a Freemason.

Or, if you were not to "dispel", you could simply visit this site for a wealth of collaborative fiction:

www.whale.to...

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Your quote above is incorrect. A cowan is actually one who attempts to pass himself off as a Freemason illegally. It means a masonic impostor.

Does that mean not masonic in any way, or is that term used referring to non-recognized (for what ever reason) masons also?

I'm not sure, but I believe "cowan" is only used for non-initiates who attempt to pass themselves off as Freemasons. A 'mason' who is part of a non-recognized jurisdiction is an irregular Freemason, and a mason who once was recognized but lost that recognition yet continues to meet as a mason is considered a clandestine Freemason.

Regarding our friend moonchild, I am still not convinced that he is a mason of any sort, even of a non-recognized body. His behavior and terminology has been disturbingly un-masonic. But if he indeed WERE as he claims, then he would not be a cowan but rather an unrecognized mason, which pretty much amounts to being a non-mason.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Regarding our friend moonchild, I am still not convinced that he is a mason of any sort, even of a non-recognized body. His behavior and terminology has been disturbingly un-masonic. But if he indeed WERE as he claims, then he would not be a cowan but rather an unrecognized mason, which pretty much amounts to being a non-mason.

Well I think his claim holds water, the images he posted of his credentials were taken today according to the Exif info, and as far as the terminology goes, his explanation that he is a native french speaker and the English words he used were simpler for him seems reasonable to me. And I have some historic interest in the M&M rites, and some of the things he said do ring a bell as M&M like.

Originally posted by Cug


Does that mean not masonic in any way, or is that term used referring to non-recognized (for what ever reason) masons also?

Do you belive that Moonchild is a mason? I can create my own teachings, based from masonic rituals, and print certificates in my basement. Will that make everyone that follows me a mason?

With the lack of knowledge, and disregaurd for obligations, even if he was a member of recognized lodge, I still think the term Cowan is fitting.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

I'm not sure, but I believe "cowan" is only used for non-initiates who attempt to pass themselves off as Freemasons. A 'mason' who is part of a non-recognized jurisdiction is an irregular Freemason, and a mason who once was recognized but lost that recognition yet continues to meet as a mason is considered a clandestine Freemason.
.

Here is what my book( Lexicon of Freemasonry-A.G Mackey) says:

Cowan: one of the profane,This purely masonic term is derived from the greek
kuon, a dog. In the early ages of the church, when the mysteries of religion were communicated only the initiates under the veil of secrecy, the infedels and upbatized profane were called "dogs", a term probably suggested by such passages of scripture as Matt. VII. VI. ( mathew chapter 7, verse 6). " Give not that wich is holy undo the dogs." And Philip III, "Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of te concision."
Hence, as kuon , or dog, ment amount the early fathers one who had not ben initiated into the christian mysteries, the term was borrowed b the Freemasons, and in time corrupted into cowan. The attempt made by some anti-masonic writers to derive the word from the chouans of the french revolution is absurd. The word was in use long before the French Revolution was even meditated. I have in my possession a copy of the edition of Anderson's Constitutions, printed in 1769, which contains at p. 97, this word: "Working Masonsever will have their own wages *** let cowans do as they please."
Another interpretation of this term as a result of later invesigation proves it to be a Stone Mason capable of building only dry walls.

Please excuse any typos I might have missed, I could not find an E-version of this, so I copied it from one of my books.

Originally posted by wiggy

Do you belive that Moonchild is a mason?

:::Avoiding technicalities:::

I believe he is a member of the Rites of Memphis and Mizraim. Or rather I have seen no reason to doubt it yet. Any discrepancy's you guys are encountering could be chalked up to a system that has been separate from "regular" Masonry for a few hundred years.

hey thanks for the back up

i bet they really want me not to be a real mason. I have i feeling that if they react like that its because they are scared.

Originally posted by moonchild
I have i feeling that if they react like that its because they are scared.

You couldn't be further off.

They may be overly aggressive in this forum, but you have to remember they are used to dealing with people who think the Masons are trying to take over the world, brain washing people, and blow up peoples toilets. (he last one is not a joke, someone here really believes that!)

Originally posted by moonchild
hey thanks for the back up

i bet they really want me not to be a real mason. I have i feeling that if they react like that its because they are scared.

You're use of the term "They" says it all.

You don't subconsciously see your self as "one of us."


And by the way. As far as posting "excerpts" of masonic rituals go.

What you can find on the internet, or at the library is not important to me. YOUR behavior doesn't affect me in any way, regardless of your beliefs or comments about masonry.

See, I cannot control you. And I don't want to control you or your actions.

But I can control myself.

And I took an obligation upon myself. And I take my obligations seriously. Regardless of how flippant or immature you may chose to be, I choose to treat important matters with respect. For instance, I'm not a muslim. But I wouldn't mistreat a copy of the Koran, even under orders. Not because it is true, but because another person values it as having spiritual truth.

To be respectable, I have to be able to respect other people. To be honorable, I have to show honor to other people, and treat my own words and obligations with honor.

And, looking back at your posts, I'm very certain that you are not, and never have been a member of ANY blue lodge, in any country. Even the clandestine lodges have a mindset, a use of phrasing, that you lack.

You got your stuff from the internet, from libraries, and from other wannabees.


There ARE different kinds of masonry.

there's the kind you find in books. Then, there's the kind that is spoken aloud. Third, there is the sort of masonry that is communicated only in a whisper. There is a fourth kind, too, but it is completely unspoken.

Just because twenty years ago you once memorized some words (or downloaded them off of an expose site), does not make you a mason. Masonry is far removed from all that is mundane . . . masonry has no regard for the outer appearances you are so fixated upon.

Reading books about circumnavigating the globe is not the same thing as actually having been there. And folk who have traveled can quickly spot the difference.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
...I cannot control you. And I don't want to control you or your actions.

But I can control myself.

And I took an obligation upon myself. And I take my obligations seriously. Regardless of how flippant or immature you may chose to be, I choose to treat important matters with respect. For instance, I'm not a muslim. But I wouldn't mistreat a copy of the Koran, even under orders. Not because it is true, but because another person values it as having spiritual truth.

To be respectable, I have to be able to respect other people. To be honorable, I have to show honor to other people, and treat my own words and obligations with honor.

You have voted dr_strangecraft for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

*applause*

You have voted dr_strangecraft for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

that was some serious ether

as far as the topic, it's quite far fetched to think he's throwing up a masonic sign

*goes off to google W. Bush throwing up a west-side gesture*

Originally posted by Cug
the images he posted of his credentials were taken today according to the Exif info,

The credentials he posted had NO personal information. They could be anybody's, and he could've gotten them off the internet for all we know. NONE of the masons on this forum seem to believe he is a mason, and we are all VERY adept at recognizing our own. What does that tell you?

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by Cug
the images he posted of his credentials were taken today according to the Exif info,

The credentials he posted had NO personal information. They could be anybody's, and he could've gotten them off the internet for all we know. NONE of the masons on this forum seem to believe he is a mason, and we are all VERY adept at recognizing our own. What does that tell you?

Like I said in another post, he knows something about the Montreal lodge that is just so obscure he has to have contact with it. As far as none of the masons believing him not to be a mason.... well DUH! he is a MM Rite, even if you had the very best proof in your hands that he is a MM you would say he is not a Mason correct?

All this crap tells me the irregular masons have the same amount of hate for the regular masons and the regular masons have for the irregular masons.

This is a 200 odd years old pissing match.

Originally posted by Cug
Like I said in another post, he knows something about the Montreal lodge that is just so obscure he has to have contact with it. As far as none of the masons believing him not to be a mason.... well DUH! he is a MM Rite, even if you had the very best proof in your hands that he is a MM you would say he is not a Mason correct?

Well I think (and please guys, correct me if I'm wrong here) That even irregular lodges are generally the same, it's just that they are missing one or more of the Landmarks of Freemasonry, hence the lack of recognition. I don't think any of the Masons here even believe him to be irregular, I think they all think he is a flat out poser. I'm not saying either way, but it sure does seem to me that his conduct is not very becoming of any kind of mason, regular or otherwise. Just callin' it like I see it.

Originally posted by Cug
Like I said in another post, he knows something about the Montreal lodge that is just so obscure he has to have contact with it. As far as none of the masons believing him not to be a mason.... well DUH! he is a MM Rite, even if you had the very best proof in your hands that he is a MM you would say he is not a Mason correct?

All this crap tells me the irregular masons have the same amount of hate for the regular masons and the regular masons have for the irregular masons.

This is a 200 odd years old pissing match.

This is no pissing match. moonchild is constantly spreading false information about Freemasonry, and adds credibility to it by stating that he is a mason. I don't believe he is ANY kind of mason, irregular or otherwise. If he has knowledge of the Montreal Lodge, why doens't he have knowledge of BASIC masonic facts?!?

He has confirmed MANY conspiracy theories regarding masons in other forums such as the NWO forum. He has struck out too many times. I don't think ANY mason has so much incorrect information about the fraternity as moonchild does.


[edit on 8-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Big whoop. I say, let him say whatever he wants, hopefully he'll realize how stupid all this is afterall.

Aw, Sweet Pea...

See, there are a few things that one should keep in mind when demanding full disclosure of others, while one basks in the safety of their own perceived anonymity:

1. Small minds reap small rewards, so...

2. Do unto other as you would have them do unto you because...

3. Karma's a b*tch, which means...

4. You shouldn't expect others to divulge their own secrets while yours are neatly tucked away in your broom closet, for you just might hear someone say to you when you least expect it...

5. "I know what you did last summer..." (Great film, eh?)





So clean out all the porn on your computer, own up to the white lies (and black ones) you tell your mom, reveal to all of us here at ATS your deepest desires and secret childhood dreams (yes, you know the one with the ballerina and white knight dancing in the snow globe, right?) and THEN we'll talk about privacy and who has rights to it and who doesn't.

(FYI: We ALL do.)