Army recruitment declines in USA and UK

junglejake is correct, the bar was raised on recruitment levels in the US, and we are having trouble reaching that new level.

However, and this is a BIG however, retention and re-enlistment is off the chart in some areas. Thousands are opting to re-enlist while still in Iraq, and many many others are simply continuing their duty options by extending.

So, while recruiting may be down, retention easily makes up the numbers. A draft is un-needed.

Another thing is happening to the soldiers fighting in Iraq, they leave to get more money as private protection is well paid . Link msnbc.msn.com...

Interesting thread and an area I had thought about lately. What will the Govs do with the increase in Soldier needs and a decline of sign-ups or extensions.

The draft is the only option, I don't technology will in the near future seriously reduce the number of Soldiers needed.

Though some re-shaping of Gov attitudes in spend more time worrying about their own Country's affairs and not others may help reduce the numbers of Soldiers needed.

Dallas

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

If you bleed the economy dry, move jobs overseas and keep the corporations rich, in a matter of years there will be a movement of people which are all but forced into the armed services for lack of any other decent paying job to feed their family.

Yeah, at least they will have job security with all our other upcoming "adventures"

I think this is partially because of the "womaning" of Western culture in the last 50 years. We've become weak and we've lost our way. We've kicked out 90% of male teachers in our public schools and replaced them with clipped-haired man-haters....we've tossed out dodge-ball in place of hop-skotch....fights I use to get in after school are now replaced with counseling and anger management.

Im telling y'all this is part of the recruiting problem.

Hell, most of the boys I see now-a-days have never even fired a BB Gun, Let alone charge up the beaches of Normandy!

Maximu§

I think recrutment would improve If the sons and daughters of our elected officials would enlist. I think President Bushes' daughters would look real pretty in camo. I think president Bush was a pilot during the Vietnam war.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by whaaa]

[edit on 28-7-2005 by whaaa]

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
We've kicked out 90% of male teachers in our public schools and replaced them with clipped-haired man-haters..(snippetysnip)
Hell, most of the boys I see now-a-days have never even fired a BB Gun, Let alone charge up the beaches of Normandy!

Maximu§

If I didn't know any better, I'd swear you were a-baiting, Maxipooh.

But we know better'n that, right? Seeing as you were right up there storming those beaches at Normandy, gettin' all hot and masculinated, away from all those clipped-hair man-haters.

Should we just call you McFly?

I just received my latest issue of Harpers(August), and inside the index are a couple of figures that I found of some signifigance.

1st) Number of new U.S soldiers the Army would need in 2006 to replenish ranks abroad: 80,000
2nd) Percentage of this goal it expects to meet: 9.9.
(Figures as listed by harpers to coincide with U.S Army Recruiting Command (Forth Knox, KY)

I tried to search theUS Army Recruiting Command at www.usarec.army.mil... but with no such luck as to specifics of policy.


So IF this is the case with our armed forces, is it fair to ask just how exactly it intends to meet it's requirements for the following years?

Or is this all just nonsense? Does anyone have any figures to dispute this claim?

heck use all the prisoners...im sure they would like being out in the real world rather than in prison anyways plus they would do America a favor -- instead of rotting in a cell sucking our tax dollars

I agree with you. They are pumping iron every day. Let's make use of all those muscles.

You can use two "models" for the prisoners. Soviet and Balkan.

When Germany attacked Soviet Union, Stalin realeased milions of political prisoners to fight for mother Russia. Many of them died, but those who survived were sent back to prisons after they finished their tour. IMO this model is good.

The Balkan "model" was a catastrophy. When they (all sides) released prisoners to fight in paramilitary units they were responsible for most of attrocities, because they could run around free with no real authority. And when the war stopped they joined or establish criminal organizations.

There is another pool where you can pump potential candiates from. They are called millions of illegal emigrants. You want green card or citizenship? Join the Army and earn your place in a brave new world.

I know it's a little extreme but that's just one man's opinion.


[edit on 29-7-2005 by yanchek]

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Looks like the armed forces of the US and UK are not seen as viable work options nowadays. Perhaps the younger generation don't want to go to a war zone and prefer to pursue careers that might take them into old age. How will the military fill the gap? They can always introduce a draft, but people who don't want to fight are not the best soldiers. Links observer.guardian.co.uk... and www.wsws.org...

i agree why fight for something we as people have no control of. i wound not fight even if they held a gun to my head.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
I think this is partially because of the "womaning" of Western culture in the last 50 years. We've become weak and we've lost our way.
Maximu§

I can't quite believe I'm going to say this but I almost agree with you (in principle) here. I definitely wouldn't call it the "womaning", I'd call it the weakening of Western Culture. I think women and men, boys and girls are all becoming less able to deal with life. From the rules of the new playground and the fact that a kid can put an adult in jail for smacking them on the butt, to the drugs our society takes every day just to deal with the pressures of life. People are getting weaker and becoming a society of wussies!

Having said that, I think it's a mistake to assume that the (main) reason recruitment is down can be attributed to this 'weakening'. I think the way we went into this war and the fact that many perceive it as an illegal and immoral war is more influencial on recruitment than anything else.

Right after 9/11, when everyone still thought our government wanted to help us fight the bad guys, I haven't seen any recruitment numbers, but I'll bet they were high. It wasn't until the black stuff started oozing out from the White House that the recruitment numbers started to take a powder.

I don't think people are afraid to fight for the safety and security of their country, they just don't believe that the war in Iraq is the way to do that. AND the government isn't exactly invested in protecting them over there, so why should they? (Body armor, humvee armor, DU, vet care...)

If I were in a position to inlist, I would not. I'm willing to give my life for my country right now, but not for the few who are benefiting from this war.

How can we improve recruitment? Get out of where we don't belong (and I think that's finally starting to happen). The only way recruitment is going to improve is if we feel united as a nation toward a common goal. And right now, we're split right down the middle. Half of us just aren't buying this whole War on Terror. One of the best indications of a good leader is the unity that the people feel. Our country has never been so strongly polarized. That's just bad all around.

quote]Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Having said that, I think it's a mistake to assume that the (main) reason recruitment is down can be attributed to this 'weakening'.

You made some great points BH and its not the main reason, but it does have a small part in regards to the recruiting shortage. Im not saying we need to raise a nation of Rambo's, but there needs to be a balance and when we took away the role models (Good Dads, Good Male teachers, Boy Scout Leaders) our boys lost some of what made them become good "Men"

If any American boy dares to sh0w some spunk in public school...he is immediately put on Ritilin and his parents are called in. When a boy FINALLY punches out that school bully....BOTH are suspended and punished equaly, because most schools are run by females and I know they teach well, but can they teach a boy to become a Man?

Our society has swung too far to the left and WTF is happening to our Boys? It looks to me like our chickens have come home to roost.

Sweet little Tinker-flower asked if I was "Baiting" and I really am not. Im dead serious about this topic. When my Grandpa fought in WW II, he told me young American men lined up by the 1000's to join the fight......now we have recruiters almost begging these Fat, Lazy, Self-centered teenagers to join up.

Thats not a good sign.....I wonder what will happen 20 years from now?


Maximu§







[edit on 023131p://555 by LA_Maximus]

Excuse me if this point has already been mentioned (and shame on you if it hasnt ):


OF COURSE RECRUITMENT IS DOWN!!!

You see, pre war, or pre "mess", there were two types of people who enlisted in the armed forces.

#1 People looking for the benifits only

And

#2 People who want to serve their country


All the #1's ran like little school girls away from the recruitment centers when things got dangerous. The #2's keep on signing up.

Mmmm...Unemployment is down too...Odd how that coincides huh?

Its no more complicated than that, really.

I told my wife just yesterday that if I was 19 again I would sign up today.

I agree Maximus. there are no longer any strong male role models and that kind of thing is even frowned upon. I had a gym teacher and he was a fat bastard reject who wanted to be a drill sargeant, but he rode our asses hard enough and we were better for it in the end. We need ROTC in high schools, we dont need freakin anger management i dont know how many times i ended up there, lol. Anyway youg boys need role models to shape their agressiveness into constructive things instead of the schools just trying to freakin neuter them all.

Now adays are role models are 'thugs' who roll around in 'blinged' out cars, possibly commiting crimes etc. This has and will continue to be reponsible for an explosion of crime.

Let's not forget the priorities of the new generation (they have none). I have a teenager and have often talked about this sort of thing with her and her friends. I dont want to knock the whole generation but we cant ignore the issue either. They just dont care period. That is until it effects them directly, but even that wouldnt change too much- so i was told.

My daughter had a summer party and we all sat around talking about this stuff... not one of them cared about a society built on "freedom" becasue they take it for granted. Not one of them said they would join the military. ANd if there was a draft, the consenous was they would flee to Canada or do whatever it takes to "get around the system". One kid even said he would start "going mental" and try to be considered "mentally unstable" so the military would pass on him. They agreed they were lazy and it didnt bother them that i thought they were unpatriotic.

The other glaring issue i picked up on (and this will defuse some of the previous comments about joining the military.) They really are uneductaed about what is going on in the world. They couldnt even answer basic trivia about our own country and history. Like state capitals or when the Declaration of independence was signed. BASIC STUFF!!! It honestly hurt in a way I cant explian-- just how, well.... "disconnected" they are. They exist in their own little selfserving techno-worlds.

Shame.

Let me add that there are obvious exceptions to the rule, but there were over 20 kids at our house, and they represent a good cross section...

Peace

[edit on 29-7-2005 by Serum39]

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
when we took away the role models (Good Dads, Good Male teachers, Boy Scout Leaders) our boys lost some of what made them become good "Men"

How did this happen? I don't think women are to blame... Why aren't 'good men' in these roles anymore (if indeed they aren't)? What specifically has taken away the role models?

If any American boy dares to sh0w some spunk in public school...he is immediately put on Ritilin and his parents are called in. When a boy FINALLY punches out that school bully....BOTH are suspended and punished equaly, because most schools are run by females

I agree, but girls are treated the same way. If a girl speaks out, she's put on drugs, too. If she is in a fight, no matter what the circumstances, she's expelled right along with the bully. Girls are not exempt from this wussifying of America.

I disagree that the reason for this behavior is the sex of the school staff. It's because of the overall treatment and weakening of everyone. Not just by women. In fact, men are making the rules in schools. There are still more male principals in the public schools (I can't find any recent numbers) and men make the laws. I simply cannot blame this on women.

and I know they teach well, but can they teach a boy to become a Man?

I wouldn't want a school teacher to teach my son about being a man. That's his parents' job. The school can teach math. Who teaches a boy to be a man? His father and uncles? Older brothers? Are we relying on teachers to raise our children now? That's a part of the problem as far as I'm concerned. Lack of parental involvement.

Max, You're certainly free to blame women for this but I just want to make it clear that I totally disagree.

thats because Serum, the young Americans here are taking things for granted that older Americans have help to create in passing the torch of taking care of the country. this generation is more lazy and expect things and people to serve them. instead of working for themselves. i believe the new generation of people are called the entitlement generation. not willing to help others. im not saying that all young Americans are like that, but there is a vast amount of people who dont appreciate others.

Lord help me, but I'm agreeing with people I never agree with!

What has made these kids so irresponsible, though? They didn't just happen to turn out the way they are. At some point, the parents have to step in and ask what their contribution has been. We instill values and standards in our kids.

If I talked to adults the way I hear kids talking these days, I'd have been missing a body part. What happened? I knew better than to act the way the kids do today. What changed? I never got an allowance, but now, I hear kids telling their parents, "You owe me $20 from last week." When I ask what he does for his allowance, the parent looks at me like I'm crazy. He doesn't do crap for his allowance. But still the parent forks over the $20.

And I know not every kid is a brat, but I'm talking about the vast majority who are. The ones who would rather play video games than do something constructive.

And I refuse to blame 'women' or 'the left'. These people aren't responsible for how your kids are raised. You are.

BH Im not blaming it all on woman, but Liberals have been givin alot of power in the last couple of generations. Im talking in education and in the media and they have made their mark on the current generation of wimps we see now.

I grew up watching the Lone Ranger, Big Valley, OneAdam-12 and Combat on TV. .....Shows that use to have real men using real violence to fight bad guys, now they have been replaced by wimpy shows that promote alternatives to violence.

Violence does have a place in our society and it has a place in solving problems when words fail. Now we have an Army thats short of fighting men and thats not a good thing is it?

Maximu§


Edit: My Grandpa told me when he went to the picture show as a teenager, they use to play films showing our soldiers at the front kicking Butt and taking names...now-a-days we're tortured with "The-20", a buncha Girly-Men on CBS and ABC cracking jokes and yucking it up.

I wonder why those propaganda films have disappeared? I would love to see a short film on the Fallujah assault before watching War of the Worlds.

I think its all connected....public Schools Run by Woman....a Liberal Media that Hates Patriotism.....Doping up our young boys with Ritilin....the Pledge of alligence no longer allowed in schools. Add them all up and this is what we end up with. Our chickens have come home to roost.....we are reaping what we have sewn.







[edit on 033131p://555 by LA_Maximus]

Well said!!

You're right. It should start at home with the parents. The problem I have with my teen is NOT that we are bad parents but her friends parents seem to let their kids do ANYTHING they want rather than to deal with the issues.... this some how has effect my daughter. In her group of friends she is the with th erules, earlier curfew, etc... and she comes home resenting us and rebelling against us because she is the"odd one out" in her group.

Regarding posts about the lack of "masculinity" in boys/guys.... I have commented on this many times before but will keep this short. Society is directly responsible for this. Just look at the rather new term "Metro-sexual".... think about it- they actually had to make a term for the feminine guys. Again, with conversation with my daughter friends... half the kids these days are bi-sexual (both guys & girls- including my daughter).

Guys hooking up with guys at "swap parties" happens to be a quiet yet common thing these days... it's considered "trendy" to ignore gender these days.

ANyhow.. peace

Sorry, Max, you're not selling me. We have more violence on TV and in movies than ever before. Yeah, those shows you mention did have nice clean feel-good violence, but today's violence is is a lot more bloody and scary and out of anger instead of just to solve a problem.

And yes, society does make it's mark on the kids and has an impact, but the main lessons, the making of a man, the character of a person, is defined by what he is taught by his parents from a very young age. And if they are slacking off and giving the job to society, then they really can't complain about the end product.

I do agree that the pendulum is swinging all over the place, but right now, it's swinging hard back to the right, I don't think you can deny that.

An Interesting Study

• Average child sees approximately 1000 murders, rapes, or assaults on TV per year
• 57% of all TV shows contain some violent content
• Parental warnings and violence advisories "magnetized" such programs
• 54% of children have TV in their bedroom