Army recruitment declines in USA and UK

Looks like the armed forces of the US and UK are not seen as viable work options nowadays. Perhaps the younger generation don't want to go to a war zone and prefer to pursue careers that might take them into old age. How will the military fill the gap? They can always introduce a draft, but people who don't want to fight are not the best soldiers. Links observer.guardian.co.uk... and www.wsws.org...

You're right, though - reluctant soldiers are not good soldiers.

Maybe if a draft included an option to serve in a non-military capacity too....might that seem easier to swallow?

Or perhaps it's just the current ambiguity about the morality and legality of the War on Terror (amongst other things); I'm not exactly sure how that can be overcome, if at all.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
You're right, though - reluctant soldiers are not good soldiers.

Maybe if a draft included an option to serve in a non-military capacity too....might that seem easier to swallow?

Or perhaps it's just the current ambiguity about the morality and legality of the War on Terror (amongst other things); I'm not exactly sure how that can be overcome, if at all.

Germany has compulsory National Service, withn the option of doing "Community Service" rather than join the Military. the problem then is that most will opt for the community service rather than the Military. This has caused some problems for German recruitment also.

I don't see this as a shock, sorry.

During times of peace I suppose people saw the army as a safe bet for education and money.

Now that it's dangerous it's a whole other ball game isn't it?

Look at us 5 years ago. "I'll join the army, there's no chance the US will be in a war anytime."

Now by signing up you know you're likely to end up in combat, and I don't think that's for everyone.

Looks like that the US and UK will be undermanned for the foreseeable future, that means the war on terrorism is on hold as we don't have the manpower to start new wars with Iran and North Korea.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Looks like that the US and UK will be undermanned for the foreseeable future, that means the war on terrorism is on hold as we don't have the manpower to start new wars with Iran and North Korea.

Can always draft if the need arrises. If the powers that be want a war, they will find the men to die for them.

On the other side, unemployment and poor opportunites fuel Military recruitment. with the rising income and employment in the UK, not many people fell the "need" to go to the Army for training and job security.

Having said that, the Northerners will always be there in droves to join the Army, as they are on the other side of the "divide"...

Your wrong Stumason , the Homer Simpsons that live in the North like spending your taxpayers money on cigs and beer , they don't want to fight in Iraq. Lets get back to the reason that Army recruitment is declining.

While it is declining due to a controversial war taking place, the numbers are slightly misleading. I don't know about the UK, but the US upped it's recruitment goals for all the branches of the military. As a result, since raising the bar, they've been getting a larger shortfall than would be typical. It may look bad on paper, but it's not that bad.

Djarums is right. The military seemed like a cool place to send your kids to get some dicipline and get them a free ride through college. While that still stands as true, now there's the added, though extremely unlikely, chance that they could be killed or injured. Because 9-11 is fading from some people's memories, and others don't equate the war in Iraq with the war on terror, that surge of "my country calls, and here I am to answer" soldiers has tapered off noticably.

On top of all that, I think Lisa Simpson said it best:

Lisa: Our generation feels neither highs nor lows.
Homer: What's that like?
Lisa: Ehh...

Without a passion to serve your country, the military is just a job. Unfortunately, it's a dangerous, low paying one, so it's lost a lot of its appeal. It's also become fairly common knowlege that recruitment officers liem and are encouraged to do so, so people are very wary, and rightly so, of the promises they make to get you to sign that piece of paper.

they have strict limitations on soldier recruitment also;

they need to cut those restrictions

lift age requirements; let druggys in; let psychopaths in

if u really wanna meet that recruitment quota; u gonna have to go pull some people outta prison and put them on the front

heck use all the prisoners...im sure they would like being out in the real world rather than in prison anyways
plus they would do America a favor -- instead of rotting in a cell sucking our tax dollars up

i doubt they care its a "war zone" anyways
Prison is a war zone too

so being outside in the warzone is a plus

recruit the prisoners lol
they can pay their debt to society and fill our recruitment gaps

just a suggestion

edit:::
if u wanna help solve this problem
lets write suggestions to
www.usarec.army.mil...

lets actually do something for once and help out
give them a piece of your mind; they need all the help they can get
thanks guys/gals


[edit on 27-7-2005 by muzzleflash]

recruit the prisoners

I'd be for that as long as it were the choice of the prisoners and it was still selective. I can't imagine a female soldier who signed up to serve her country would be too thrilled to be in the same platoon as a convicted multiple rapist/murderer.

Gotta disagree with the psychopath thing, though. Our military is effective because of a known leadership pyramid (couldn't spell the word I wanted to use at all, and don't have Word here at home ) where you obey your commander's orders. Plus, the last thing America needs is some film of a psychopath beating the crap out of an injured enemy, then pumping 2 or 3 clips into him. Something tells me people would be a little upset about that, and I'm sure it would ultimately be Bush's fault.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Your wrong Stumason , the Homer Simpsons that live in the North like spending your taxpayers money on cigs and beer , they don't want to fight in Iraq. Lets get back to the reason that Army recruitment is declining.

Don't start again Bulldog. I think we know who knows what when it comes to the UK military between me and you.

Go to any Army Barracks, and you will find that 50% will be from the North with another 30% being shared amongst the Scots and Welsh with the rich southern kids taking up the remaining 20%.

Those who join the military invariably do for socio-economic reasons. Very rarely (unless they were a Pad brat to begin with or loved grandpas war stories) will they join up if their mummy and daddy are rich, live in Surrey and will pay for them to go to Uni.

Originally posted by junglejake

recruit the prisoners

Plus, the last thing America needs is some film of a psychopath beating the crap out of an injured enemy, then pumping 2 or 3 clips into him. .

i thought that already was going on??
look at all those news reports; it already looks that bad

i seriously doubt things would get much worse
not to mention im actually trying to help here

they need soliders; no one wants a draft;
so lets give our convicts a 2nd chance
let them fight for their freedom; and our freedom ; all at once

i dont see anything wrong with this plan lol

if regular soldiers dont like being around them
easy
make convict battalions

im just making a suggestion

how do you propose we solve this issue?
got a better idea?
if so; dont hide it; share it please

oh ya and send it to these guys too most importantly
www.usarec.army.mil...

they need our suggestions
lets help them solve this problem

we dont need a draft ; thats the worst solution

i know my idea isnt the best; but im trying my best
im sorry i am not perfect
but im trying

So your advocating penal regiments? Sounds like Rome or something...

Could work, but then where/how would discipline be inforced?

How long would they serve to gain there freedom?

What criminals would be elligible?

Not blastin' ya or anything, muzzleflash. Just pointing out the flaws I see in your suggestion. Great ideas don't happen over night, they begin with a seed, then through challenge and support they become refined and practical, blossoming into a great idea. I think you have a good seed here with the prisoner idea, but the details need some filling in and the weak points need to be addressed.

stumason raises some very good points, specifically with the dicipline. I had actually thought of a convict company as I was typing my original response, but dismissed it because of that dicipline problem. Sure, you could have officers who would also act as prison guards and be more strict than your typical officer with the convict unit, but what's going to stop them from putting a bullet in their heads when in combat? Then, with the officers dead, they're already in a different country and can disappear. Escape would be a huge issue, and a huge unknown, because of the nature of combat.

Also, as stumason said, who would be eligable? White collar criminals serving for embezzlement? If not, you're going to have a huge issue with the political circles saying it's targeted at the poor man, but if so, they're going to be more geared towards computer and desk work since they've been doing that all their lives. Again the targeting the poor issue would come up. Would serial killers and rapists be allowed to serve? Convicted terrorists? All three groups bring a huge unknown to the cohesiveness of the unit. Maybe now that "psycho" Bob is unshackled and given a gun, he'll think about using it to satisfy this unexplainable need he feels to kill other humans. Combat for him would be nice, but what about boot camp? R&R? Etc. Plus, are we willing to let our convicted rapists patrol cities in other countries where women and children are all over the place and already fear soldiers? What about pedophiles?

There are a whole lot of aspects that need to be addressed before this idea would work, but as I said earlier, I believe the seed is sound.

what im advocating is us making ideas and sharing them with the military to help them solve this issue
*like all other issues*

it doesnt really matter my personal idea "penal regiments"
thats irrelevant as it was my personal suggestion

whats important is that everyone gets involved and pitches in
we dont need a draft; we just need some good ideas

and ATS has some of the best and brightest among us
and i know someone here can come up with a really great solution

who cares about my idea
make your own suggestion; and share it
get the ball rolling

we have the keys to solving the problems of todays world in our very hands
---->information----->communication

creating these ideas and sharing them will eventually land us onto the solution of our problem

and nothing will happen if we never share this
so lets brainstorm
lets solve the issues

just for kicks; heres another suggestion

instead of building 1 b2 spirit stealth bomber;
we can save 2 billion $ i think *somewhere around that number*

with 2 billion $
we could offer new recruits some incentives

like a 50,000$ bonus or something like that?

that would bring in 40,000 new recruits with 2billion $ i think? *hope my math is correct*

see where im going with this??
ideas are our best asset in todays world;
and with ideas we can initiate change and solve problems

i would suggest you guys think about this
your probably smarter than i am and more informed about these things

so make up your own solutions; and share em
your ideas will definatly be good ones
thats why i think we should do something about it

If you bleed the economy dry, move jobs overseas and keep the corporations rich, in a matter of years there will be a movement of people which are all but forced into the armed services for lack of any other decent paying job to feed their family.

Keep the wars going and the corporations in controll and it won't take long to convert a strong, healthy, educated population into a nice desperate, fearing, war machine.

This is only the start of it.

Even though recruitment levels have dropped since the invasion of Iraq, I feel we need to keep our standard requirments.

Their is very good behavior in Iraq (not the best), for a warzone that is. Soldiers and Marines aren't out killing like Nazis or Soviets.
We wanna keep the requirments to a limited level, choose the boys who are on a strait path (no drugs or high criminal record).

Im trying to avoid a flame

your right; we can keep our recruitment standards as is

but we would need some 'incentives' like that 50,000$ bonus i mentioned above

lol memphis; i hope it never comes to that
hopefully; they will solve this before it turns into chaos

keep those ideas rollin in

If its anything liek here in Aus i believe peoples support for the war being fought is also a big factor in the recruitment dropping.

I know myself and many of my friends who were considering joining the military have decided against it purely because we are against the current war in Iraq which Australia is involved in. Itsn ot because we're scared mind you as the odds of new recruits from Australias military going to Iraq are nil, its more the principal behind the whole thing. Would you go work for a company that had slaves in Africa doing their labour? Its different but the concept is that i wouldnt work for someone who engages in activity i am against.