The Return of Jesus Christ

Originally posted by queenannie38
How then, did they become saved from unsaved if they weren't given access to the promises related to salvation--due to these things only applying to those already saved??!?!?!?

Then became saved when they put their faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins. The unsaved become saved at the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Saviour.

They were told that through Christ their sins are forgiven and they make a conscious decision to place their faith in Christ.

Gather my saints together unto me ; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Psalm 50:5

God does create a distinction between people and it centers around a sacrifice. We know that sacrifice is Christ, He is the new covenant for the forgiveness of sins.

[edit on 6-8-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by dbrandt
Then became saved when they put their faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins. The unsaved become saved at the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Saviour.

They were told that through Christ their sins are forgiven and they make a conscious decision to place their faith in Christ.

I think a review is in order. Because either you are good at evasion (which I don't believe for a minute since that require guile on your part, and I just don't see it) or you are not realizing what I am pointing out about what you said.

Starting from when you said

Originally posted by dbrandt
Not when you filter them through the requirement for salvation. That requirement is receiving Christ as Savior.

Then I answered with a list of 5 verses for you to explain in regard to what you had just stated about the filter of salvation, which were:

(Romans 5:18)
(1 Timothy 2:3-6)
(1 Timothy 4:10)
(Titus 2:11)
(2 Peter 3:9)

So you answered:

Originally posted by dbrandtAll of these books are addressed to people who have already accepted Christ as their Savior. The unsaved cannot claim the promises found in these books. Unsaved people can and will read these books and can learn of salvation and cometo the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, but the promises do not apply to the unsaved.

So my problem with this is that the 'promises found in these books' in the verses I cited are to the effect that all men will be saved. Yet you say that these promises can only be expected to apply to those which are already saved.

How can a promise of salvation be only applicable to those who have already received the assurance (via the HS) of that promise? If they've already received their 'good toward' salvation--why would they need additional promises that all of them will be saved--when that is the very premise for their assembling together as 'elect saints' in the first place?!?

Do you not see the circular logic here that is not logical at all?

So either I'm not understanding you or you are not understanding me. And I've tried to clarify where I'm coming from, in hopes we can get straight what we're both saying about this. I hope I did make it a little clearer, if indeed I had been confusing in my posts.


[edit on 8/7/2005 by queenannie38]

Originally posted by queenannie38

So either I'm not understanding you or you are not understanding me. And I've tried to clarify where I'm coming from, in hopes we can get straight what we're both saying about this. I hope I did make it a little clearer, if indeed I had been confusing in my posts.


[edit on 8/7/2005 by queenannie38]

You are coming at these verses from one way and I am coming at them from the other way and so I think that is where the problem is.

The verses are surely read by the saved and unsaved. To the unsaved they speak of the salvation found in Christ when you place your faith in Jesus. To the saved they speak of the transformation that has taken place in us. They also help to build us up and reaffirm to us that we belong to Christ when we stumble and/or when we are under attack from the enemy.

Originally posted by dbrandt

You are coming at these verses from one way and I am coming at them from the other way and so I think that is where the problem is.

The verses are surely read by the saved and unsaved. To the unsaved they speak of the salvation found in Christ when you place your faith in Jesus. To the saved they speak of the transformation that has taken place in us. They also help to build us up and reaffirm to us that we belong to Christ when we stumble and/or when we are under attack from the enemy.

I understand what you are saying.

However--how does that explain this passage--or even the chapter it is found in?

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1 Timothy 2:4-6

I'm not really coming at these scriptures with any certain approach--just reading them. Most are quite plain spoken.

These in 1 Timothy say that this is good in the sight of God, who will have all men to be saved, because Christ will be testified to in due time--having given himself for a ransom for all.

There's no way to get around it, if it's just taken on good faith at it's word.

O How great will it be to see Jesus's coming. And I believe We are in the timeing of Christ But if we are not prepared for it, we may fall.
If you read Daniel chapter 2 (Nebuchadnezzar's Dream) It talks about kingdoms falling and rising. The last kingdom falling that the chapter talks about is romans.(chapter 2 v 33 & 41 -43) Then it continues to say that "In the time of those kings,the god of Heaven will set upa kingdom that will never be destroyed.
My point is we are right now in the timing of christ, in revelations. But our time is not the same as God's is. For all we know Revelations can happen over a period 100 or two years.

Good points, slymattb--

I agree with you--the return of our King is imminent. But as far as Revelation, have you ever considered the following?

1. It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ
   
2. Jesus Christ is the alpha and the omega.
   
3. Revelation, in its purest definition means simply 'unveiling'--not necessarily prophetic
   

So it is, essentially the 'unveiling of Jesus Christ, who is both beginning and end.' To qualify as a full unveiling, as I am sure Revelation is meant to be, is must therefore contain the whole stretch--from creation(Genesis) to restoration (new heavens and earth).

Instead of lasting one or two centuries, it truly concerns the last 6000 +- years.


[edit on 8/8/2005 by queenannie38]

Slymattb....

hen it continues to say that "In the time of those kings,the god of Heaven will set upa kingdom that will never be destroyed.

Kingdom that will never be destroyed is the ''New Heaven'' ......which is exactly how God intended Adam and Eve to live (before the fall)....there will be no more sin because all will have been fullfilled that is written in Revelation.

His Kingdom is not of this world.....meaning EARTH as we know of it now!

Christ will not return to earth UNLESS the ANTICHRIST SHOWS UP FIRST....
Then when Christ does come (time and hour no one knows)it will be JUDGEMENT DAY.

IX
helen

Helen(Kingdom that will never be destroyed is the ''New Heaven'')
Revelations talk's about two kingdoms coming the old heaven's will be destoyed and a new one created some odd 144 thousand thousand will go to heaven. Then it says the old earth will be detroyed and a new one created.If you read revelations chapter 21 it tell you about The New Jerusalem coming to earth for some to live with Jesus.
queenannie38 YOU MAKE alot of GREAT points too and God is of love.
(Jesus Christ is the alpha and the omega)is what you said
Saying this means Jesus is God himself. in John 17 1-20 jesus pray to god not himself. Jesus also said why call me good when only god is good.Jesus also says "no man nor son of man knows the timing of christ only the father know the timing of christ. If you read revelations chapter 4 &
5 God is siting on a throne holding The Scroll With Seven Seals, chapter 5 shows Jesus coming and taking the scroll our of his hands showing two different bodies. Jesus is the SON OF GOD( off spring of god) but in any case god bless you

Revelations talk's about two kingdoms coming the old heaven's will be destoyed and a new one created some odd 144 thousand thousand will go to heaven. Then it says the old earth will be detroyed and a new one created.If you read revelations chapter 21 it tell you about The New Jerusalem coming to earth for some to live with Jesus.

It is not for ''Some time'' but for ever......His Kingdom shall have no end.....as is in The Creed ...I believe in one God...all of Christianity confess to this faith...

21.1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
For there shall be a new heaven and a new earth; and they shall not at all remember the former, neither shall it again come into their mind.
But they shall find in her joy and exultation; for behold, I make Jerusalem a rejoicing, and My people a joy (Isaiah 65.17-18).

We, according to His promise, wait for a new heaven and a new earth, in which dwelleth righteousness (II Peter 3.13).

“Here mention is made, not of the passing away into non-existence of creation, but of its change to a better state, as the apostle witnesses: the creature itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God (Romans 8.21).
And the divine Psalmist says: As a vesture shalt Thou fold them, and they shall be changed (Psalm 101.27)
The renewal of that which has grown old signifies, not the obliteration and annihilation, but the removal of old age and wrinkles.” (St. Andrew of Caesarea)

Conclusion: The Eighth Day

IX
helen

Originally posted by slymattb
queenannie38 YOU MAKE alot of GREAT points too and God is of love.
(Jesus Christ is the alpha and the omega)is what you said
Saying this means Jesus is God himself.

Not at all. Saying that is only saying that Christ is what He says He is, in Revelation: He who is, and who was, and who is to come. (both creator and redeemer--the Word, Logos, of God who was before the foundation of the world). He is the one 'that lived, and was dead; and, behold, is alive for evermore.'

in John 17 1-20 jesus pray to god not himself.

No doubt--we are to worship the Father, not the Son--for we are all to be sons of the Father one day--through our Lives which are received through the Son--being hidden in Him for the present.

Jesus also said why call me good when only god is good.Jesus also says "no man nor son of man knows the timing of christ only the father know the timing of christ. If you read revelations chapter 4 &
5 God is siting on a throne holding The Scroll With Seven Seals, chapter 5 shows Jesus coming and taking the scroll our of his hands showing two different bodies. Jesus is the SON OF GOD( off spring of god)

Right--Jesus is the Son (builder of the family name) of the Father. The Father is the Most High, and the Son is at His right hand--serving as the 'Magistrate' of the kingdom and the 'Captain' of all the Host.

The problem, I think--is that the word 'god' is such a muddy one when it comes to being specific. The only God that we are told of the OT is the Son of the Father God in the NT. And this idea, coupled with man's need to define and specify the nature of all that the Living God is--causes much confusion.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I hope this helps.

Thanks

queenannie38 quote
No doubt--we are to worship the Father, NOT THE SON--for we are all to be sons of the Father one day--through our Lives which are received through the Son--being hidden in Him for the present.
For the longest time iI i didnt know if we should worship Jesus sometimes I still dont know. But if we read revelation again in chapter 5 v 8-10 It says this "And when he had taken( the scroll) it, the four living creatures and the twenty four elders FELL DOWN BEFORE THE LAMB."
My point is they got on there knees.BUt when i pray i pray to the father through Jesus. I usually worship god through jesus
helen you right and god's love you

Queen the bible says there will be some that have backsliden and in revalations he speak to the churches that if you belong to one of them and are doing what they are doing then you will be cast in to outer darkness
queen by the way you talk you sound like you have somethings in your life that jesus would not want taken in to. you are the reson men and women who claim to follow jesus still act as the world and do the things of the world. BECAUSE I AM SAVED BY THE GRACE OF GOD. You teach empty words and paul spoke about people that talk this way. They have a form of godlyness but deny the power and stay away from them. Jesus said he that overcomes will go to heaven. You Take the grace of GOD and turn it in to a permit to go and sin and that is how a lot of people believe and it stright out of hell. Once saved always saved and this is not what GOD wanted so you are teaching men wrong and it says they will heap up teachers to say what they want. It is alright GOD will understand and just try that is all that matters. IT Is a lie and you know it deep inside. So stop telling lies that is why this world is so evil because of the filth that comes out of peoples minds and their words that they say are of GOD. You need a lesson in the bible from paul he would have put you in check may the grace and peace be upon all that are the Fathers..prophetseeker

[edit on 9-8-2005 by prophetseeker]

Originally posted by prophetseeker
you are the reson men and women who claim to follow jesus still act as the world and do the things of the world.

That's a pretty harsh accusation, so I trust you have some evidence to back it up with, when asked.

BECAUSE I AM SAVED BY THE GRACE OF GOD.

That's the proof of the power, prophetseeker! You are saved by His grace--I am saved by that same Grace--my second grade teacher, your paper boy, the president of Nicaruagua, and even David Berkowitz are saved by that same grace! Does any one of us deserve it? Can we ever do anything to deserve it?

No.

You Take the grace of GOD and turn it in to a permit to go and sin and that is how a lot of people believe and it stright out of hell.

I trust, also, that you have some proof of me actually saying something to that effect--because otherwise you are just putting words in my mouth. Not once have I said it's okay to sin. It's not. But the majority of the world is estranged from God because of sin, and they don't even realize the enormity of what He's done, just so there is no reason any of us have to be separated from Him.

He wants everyone to know how HUGE is love is--and how fair and perfectly merciful He is. One day soon His name and praise and glory to Him will be on everyone's heart and upon their lips--because He has said so Himself, through the prophet Isaiah.

The truth is that the only way to salvation is repentance and faith in Christ Jesus. He is the Way.
He died for all men, so that all men can be reconciled to God.
Because God wills that every man will come to the knowledge of the truth and will therefore repent.
For the goodness and justness of God is what brings us to repent. He is not drawing us to Him by making us flee the threat of hell--only arriving under His wing because we're scared of death more than we're scared of Him! What good is that kind of coercion?
He wants us to love Him and trust Him--and so He has shown that He even gave His son to die in our places, so that we know there is no reason we can't come to Him.

Paul says:
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
1 Corinthians 4:7

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:21-23

There is no difference between them that believe and those who do not. Because all will come to the knowledge of the Grace God has given to all men, all will come before Him on bended knee with repentant heart. He has said so--why would He not do as He has said?

He can do anything, nothing is beyond His power. And that includes every sinner than ever lived. If they come to Him for forgiveness today, or 10 years down the road--is the forgiveness any less than complete either way? Is the sin any worse? Is the judgment partial in any way, to any man, at any time?

No. Because we have all sinned and come short of His Glory, but in His Son we will all be reconciled to Him in the end, when the full revelation of Christ Jesus is given to all men.

All these things I have written are 100% found in the Holy Bible, which is profitable for demonstrating God's truth. I won't argue about it, and it's not up to me to try to convince you or to gain your approval. Whether you believe it or agree with it won't change the revelation which will come to all in the day that God has determined.

when you say that all will be saved. Then you throw out the last jugment.
Revelations.chapter 21:7+8...He who overcomes shall inherit all things and i will be his GOD and he shall be my son. But the cowardly, unbelieving,Abominable,murderers,sexually immoral, sorcerers,idolaters an all liers shall have their part in the lake of which burns with fire and brimstone. Revchapter 22:14 blessed are those who do His commandments
,That they might have the (right)to the tree of life....2 peter chapter 3:16 As also in all his epistles,Speaking in them of these things, in which are somethings hard to understand,which those (who are untaught and unstable,twist to their own destructionas they do the rest of the Scriptures)
1 Peter chapter 4:18 Now if the righteous one is scarcely saved, were will the ungodly and the sinner appear.They profess to know GOD but in worksthey deny him, being abominable,disobedient and disqualifiled for every good work.2 Timothy 2:19 let everyone who names the name of christ depart from sin.Not one person that takes Grace and lives like the ungodly world will go to heaven. And queen that is what you teach that in the end all will be saved. Then why does it say work out your salvation with fear and trembling. You had better wise up for the lord himself will juge you for the things you are teaching

when you say that all will be saved. Then you throw out the last jugment.
Revelations.chapter 21:7+8...He who overcomes shall inherit all things and i will be his GOD and he shall be my son. But the cowardly, unbelieving,Abominable,murderers,sexually immoral, sorcerers,idolaters an all liers shall have their part in the lake of which burns with fire and brimstone. Revchapter 22:14 blessed are those who do His commandments
,That they might have the (right)to the tree of life....2 peter chapter 3:16 As also in all his epistles,Speaking in them of these things, in which are somethings hard to understand,which those (who are untaught and unstable,twist to their own destructionas they do the rest of the Scriptures)
1 Peter chapter 4:18 Now if the righteous one is scarcely saved, were will the ungodly and the sinner appear.They profess to know GOD but in worksthey deny him, being abominable,disobedient and disqualifiled for every good work.2 Timothy 2:19 let everyone who names the name of christ depart from sin.Not one person that takes Grace and lives like the ungodly world will go to heaven. And queen that is what you teach that in the end all will be saved. Then why does it say work out your salvation with fear and trembling. You had better wise up for the lord himself will juge you for the things you are teaching

when you say that all will be saved. Then you throw out the last jugment.
Revelations.chapter 21:7+8...He who overcomes shall inherit all things and i will be his GOD and he shall be my son. But the cowardly, unbelieving,Abominable,murderers,sexually immoral, sorcerers,idolaters an all liers shall have their part in the lake of which burns with fire and brimstone. Revchapter 22:14 blessed are those who do His commandments
,That they might have the (right)to the tree of life....2 peter chapter 3:16 As also in all his epistles,Speaking in them of these things, in which are somethings hard to understand,which those (who are untaught and unstable,twist to their own destructionas they do the rest of the Scriptures)
1 Peter chapter 4:18 Now if the righteous one is scarcely saved, were will the ungodly and the sinner appear.They profess to know GOD but in worksthey deny him, being abominable,disobedient and disqualifiled for every good work.2 Timothy 2:19 let everyone who names the name of christ depart from sin.Not one person that takes Grace and lives like the ungodly world will go to heaven. And queen that is what you teach that in the end all will be saved. Then why does it say to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. You had better wise up for the lord himself will juge you for the things you are teaching

Originally posted by queenannie38

The truth is that the only way to salvation is repentance and faith in Christ Jesus. He is the Way.

Yes, this is the truth, and the means whereby anyone shall come to repentance and faith in the Savior, is by the person and work of the Holy Spirirt.

He died for all men, so that all men can be reconciled to God.
Because God wills that every man will come to the knowledge of the truth and will therefore repent.

Say, rather, that God desires and longs for all to come to repentence. Just because the KJV translates the greek word qelei as "willeth" or "wills" in the New KJV and 20th Century KJV can just as easily be translated "desires", which it so translated in the New American Standard and NIV versions. The word Qelei in greek means "to will or wish insofar as it is possible to influence", (Robert's Word Pictures of the New Testament). I believe what Paul is saying here is that God desires all men to be saved and will attempt to influence them in His favor by means of the Gospel message and the convicting influence of the Holy Spirit. If God should make a blanket decision that all men were going to be saved by the sacrificial death on the cross by Jesus Christ, then, there would be no free will on our part; there would be no need for the Gospel to be preached or for anyone to even read the bible. Indeed there would be no personal accountability at all.

For the goodness and justness of God is what brings us to repent. He is not drawing us to Him by making us flee the threat of hell--only arriving under His wing because we're scared of death more than we're scared of Him! What good is that kind of coercion?

It is not coercion, Annie, it is a choice! God is Just, is He not?God is Righteous, also, right? So, if God does not hold us accountable for our own actions and unrighteousness, except we choose Christ as Savior, Who cancels that sin debt on our behalf, where is God's Justice, where is His righteousness? You cliam that you beleive that one day all will turn to Christ for salvation; that when they see Him coming in His Glory that all will fall to their knees and accept Him as Savior. I say that by that time it will be too late. Those who have hardened their hearts against Christ will curse Him or try to hide from Him, but they will not accept Him because they will not have the capacity to do so. And, what of all the hundreds and hundreds of millions of those who have died since Christ's day who refused to consider or even rejected God's Gracious offer of Salvation through Christ? How does God accept them into heaven without violating His own Righteousness and Justice? It just doesn't compute, Annie.

He wants us to love Him and trust Him--and so He has shown that He even gave His son to die in our places, so that we know there is no reason we can't come to Him.

Yes. He wants us to come to Him because of what Christ has done. But we must come, He will not force us against our own will.

Grace and Peace,

Lightseeker

Originally posted by lightseeker

Say, rather, that God desires and longs for all to come to repentence. Just because the KJV translates the greek word qelei as "willeth" or "wills" in the New KJV and 20th Century KJV can just as easily be translated "desires", which it so translated in the New American Standard and NIV versions. The word Qelei in greek means "to will or wish insofar as it is possible to influence", (Robert's Word Pictures of the New Testament).

I'm not sure which verse you are referring to--
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:4

This 'will' is thelo--and it is from the same root as the 'will' in the Lord's Prayer--'thy kingdom come, thy will be done.'...

As far as God is concerned--meaning the extent of possibility there is for Him to influence anyone or anything in His creation--do you not think He can?

I believe what Paul is saying here is that God desires all men to be saved and will attempt to influence them in His favor by means of the Gospel message and the convicting influence of the Holy Spirit. If God should make a blanket decision that all men were going to be saved by the sacrificial death on the cross by Jesus Christ, then, there would be no free will on our part; there would be no need for the Gospel to be preached or for anyone to even read the bible.

True free will and the opportunity to choose are two different things--only God has free will and He gives us the opportunity to make choices in the present time.

God hardened Pharoah's heart--literally controlled Pharoah's decisions about not letting the Hebrew slaves go at the plea of Moses. Pharoah thought he was deciding, but we are told otherwise in Exodus.

And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
Exodus 4:21

This isn't the only instance God made the decisions that seemed to men to be the choices made by their own will.

Why did God do these things in this manner, namely in Exodus? To reveal His glory. That is His purpose, even now, with the gospel message. The whole world doesn't believe because He hasn't willed it so, yet. Those that do, don't have faith of their own power--He gives it to us. We cannot know God unless He allows it and draws us to Him.

Indeed there would be no personal accountability at all.

So do you think God held Pharoah accountable for a hardened heart--a heart God hardened for His purposes? Do you think Pharoah could resist or had any choice at all?

It is not coercion, Annie, it is a choice!

Many choose to believe not because they love God but rather due to mortal fear and uncertainty. They believe not to be near Him but rather to escape some kind of eternal torment. And this isn't true belief and it's not what God wants. He doesn't want us to escape to Him from punishment but rather to seek His righteousness.

God is Just, is He not?God is Righteous, also, right? So, if God does not hold us accountable for our own actions and unrighteousness, except we choose Christ as Savior, Who cancels that sin debt on our behalf, where is God's Justice, where is His righteousness?

Where is His righteousness concerning 'being born into sin?' We are all born into sin. Obviously it's not something we are personally accountable for--because it is a state which happens before we have any say-so, before we're born. So we are born in a situation we can't prevent, but must do something in order to save ourselves from it?? Is that righteous or just? He created us--does He create any of us for the express purpose of sentencing us to doom, and allow others to escape same? If He knows all things, He surely knows who will be 'doomed' and who won't--is He a respector of persons? Does He play favorites with any of us?

You cliam that you beleive that one day all will turn to Christ for salvation; that when they see Him coming in His Glory that all will fall to their knees and accept Him as Savior.

I don't claim that--I'm just repeating what I read in the bible, without extra interpretation.

I say that by that time it will be too late.

Is that something you've read in the bible?

Those who have hardened their hearts against Christ will curse Him or try to hide from Him, but they will not accept Him because they will not have the capacity to do so.

And so, if it is beyond their capacity--who is ultimately accountable for that? Themselves? Or God? Is He not perfect in every way, and hence, 100% responsible for all He created? Or is it something He created and then let run amok according to all the evil possibilities that He Himself could foresee?

And, what of all the hundreds and hundreds of millions of those who have died since Christ's day who refused to consider or even rejected God's Gracious offer of Salvation through Christ? How does God accept them into heaven without violating His own Righteousness and Justice?

Why must it be that the only option somehow puts things out of His hands? Could it not be that He is truly merciful and has planned for all of mankind to meet His requirements? To say He will save everyone isn't saying He will compromise, it is saying He is so awesome that nothing is beyond His abilities or generosity.

It just doesn't compute, Annie.

I realize that you don't understand, and I realize I can't make you see something that only God can show you. And He will, when He's determined to do so. Then you'll experience what 'omnipotent' truly means.

Yes. He wants us to come to Him because of what Christ has done. But we must come, He will not force us against our own will.

How do you know that He won't? I don't think He will, at this time--or ever--His plan is much more magnificent that simple strong-arming. But I think that He can put whatever He wants into any heart that He wants to. He has before, why not do it again, for the sake and benefit of every creature?

God gave man free will to choose him. So man will only comdemned themselfs. God put a door for you to walk through.(JESUS as being the door) If you dont walk through that door you comdemn your self. God put us all on earth for free will choose his side. God does wish all to come to him, but he knows not all man will come to him. God knew some will choose the other side. But why do you think he did it?? He did it because he only wants those who will follow him, to follow him with out knowing he really alive. He knew some will not follow him, if they didnt know he was alive. So he says basically I want those to follow me that never knew me. And those that dont follow him, that will never know him, he says to hell with ya.