AI Report 2005--China

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
You say this isn't about America's human rights violations, its about China's well geuss what you are a H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T (sp?) do not "bash" another country for doing things a certain way if your doing them to. End of story.

You're missing the entire point here.

The thread is about China.

The thread is not about the US.

It's not a game of "Well YOU are bad too!".

If you'd like to make a separate thread addressing the US human rights violations (and there are many), go ahead. But don't accuse people of hypocrisy simply because they're trying to stay on topic.

Oh. I'm not American, btw.

We are a Socialist Country and in Socialism there is no more need for religion because religion is a method of control, and in our past christian churches simply took the money away from the peasants and kept them for themselves.

I agree - there's no need for religion. But China isn't exactly a shining example of "equal distribution of wealth", is it?

There's still absolute poverty, and there's still absolute wealth. And there are billions who are much closer to the former than the latter.

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
We are a Socialist Country and in Socialism there is no more need for religion because religion is a method of control, and in our past christian churches simply took the money away from the peasants and kept them for themselves.

Now you have the government to control your lives and take your wealth so you no longer need the church?

The wealth is nolonger squadured on those who don't deserve the wealth of the nation if channeled towards the economic strength of the nation, to our defence's, and towards the welfare of the people in terms of aid to the countryside, wellfare, healthcare, various labour projects, etc. Even if there is some corruption the proper authorities are doing their best to eliminate it, but then again their are plent of Western Democracies with such problems as well.

And don't try to skirt the issue you are calling China on Human Right's Violations, but America is doing similar, there is a logical fallicy here.

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
The wealth is nolonger squadured on those who don't deserve the wealth of the nation if channeled towards the economic strength of the nation, to our defence's, and towards the welfare of the people in terms of aid to the countryside, wellfare, healthcare, various labour projects, etc.

A) who is deciding who "deserves" the wealth?

B) if that's the case, then why on earth is there so much poverty?

And don't try to skirt the issue you are calling China on Human Right's Violations, but America is doing similar, there is a logical fallicy here.

Because this thread is not about the violations of the US.

We know the US's record on human rights issues.

It's just not the topic of the thread.

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
And don't try to skirt the issue you are calling China on Human Right's Violations, but America is doing similar, there is a logical fallicy here.

At least two of us have stated we are not American, so that doesn't wash.

And again, to repeat myself and Tinkleflower, this thread is not about the US, it's about China. Do you care to address these issues?

I thought that in a communist society everyone was to share in the wealth? So how is it that some people are no longer deserving?


Edited to add: And PS, you still haven't answered my question of exactly which invaders you must build a mighty army to repel are. Actually, you haven't answered most of the questions I have posed. Are they really that difficult?

[edit on 15-9-2005 by Duzey]

It is the very basics of military strategy to prepare for any eventuality, the United States may try to invade, Russia may try to invade, in certain science fiction an Arab League may try to invade, anyone may try to invade China for reason that are not yet apparent, why does America keep a military budget 4x ours? To protect your borders and foreign interests is the simplest answer to that.

As for the poverty, only 10% of the population is below the poverty line, there is also poverty in America, how is it special? The wealth is distributed by the system for the people, the people who work hard gain the wealth but not in such a way to recreate the same situation in America where your Mega Corporate Coglarmarates seem to have so much influence in your government.

You may say that the Party has the cream of the wealth, I disagree, there are plenty of individuals who may or may not have even more material wealth then a party memeber, especially those in the head of their field, anyone can be a party member and through diligent hard work benefit the people and thus themselves, but only for the benefit of the people. If a few members have seemingly large mansions because of this it is not automatically corruption, there could very well be leaders who have moutains of work to do and thus earn such comforts.

There may very well be corruption in all levels of government as well, since we are only human beings and we are still evolving socialism, it will be a while yet before we gain the disciplin nessasary to make do with the minimal desire for material wealth and thus in the meantime those who steal from the people through corrupt methods are ruthlessly hunted down and brought to Revolutionary Justice!

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
the United States may try to invade, Russia may try to invade, in certain science fiction an Arab League may try to invade, anyone may try to invade China for reason that are not yet apparent, why does America keep a military budget 4x ours? To protect your borders and foreign interests is the simplest answer to that.

Thank you for answering my question. In return, I will give you my opinion on your question.

I think the US spends so much money for lots of reasons. The military is the biggest industry they have. Millions of people work in defense related industries. They get to employ lots of people directly and keep the unemployment rate down. If the US government were to cut that level of funding in half, it would have serious repercussions on the economy.

Also, if any government cut US military funding back that much, they would not be in government very long. That is what I would call a career-limiting move.

As for the poverty, only 10% of the population is below the poverty line, there is also poverty in America, how is it special?

It is special because of the wealth gap between the rich and the poor.

Although China is the world's fastest-growing major economy, the ministry team found rural incomes last year averaged only about $355 (£195), less than a third of urban incomes.

Even within urban areas, however, the gap is growing.

The richest 10% of urban dwellers - which make up almost a third of the total population hold 45% of wealth, according to official statistics.

The poorest 10% of the population, meanwhile, hold 1.4% of wealth.

"The problem of income distribution has become the most noticeable issue among current social problems in China," according to Lu Zhiqiang, an official from the government's Development Research Center.

"People are showing great discontent with the irrationally high income gained through the monopoly of industries, and with the gains derived from graft and corruption, and power-for-money transaction."

news.bbc.co.uk...

The rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer.

There may very well be corruption in all levels of government as well, since we are only human beings and we are still evolving socialism, it will be a while yet before we gain the disciplin nessasary to make do with the minimal desire for material wealth and thus in the meantime those who steal from the people through corrupt methods are ruthlessly hunted down and brought to Revolutionary Justice!

I don't think there is a government on this planet that has evolved quite that far. While the average CCP member may just want to help, there will always be people who seek power and then become corrupt. Have you heard the famous quote by Lord Acton? He wrote 'Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely'.

So if you have these corrupt politicians who are stealing from the people why don't you stop wasting your time on Christians, Buddhists, Muslims and Falun Gong members? They are not stealing millions of dollars from you.

Maybe it is because China has built her economy on the cheap labour that these prisons provide and would not be able to make as much money off the blood of her people. The wealth and prosperity that some are enjoying are coming at the expense of other peoples lives.

Why is it such a bad thing to let Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and Falun Gong have their religions? They are all peaceful people. Why is the CCP so scared of them? What have they done that warrants the kind of treatment they receive? What are your opinions on the topic of this thread?


[edit on 15-9-2005 by Duzey]

We don't persecute people just because of their religion, we persecute those who break the law or try to sow dissent and cause disorder, which even in your country the pertetrators are arrested.

Maybe you really donot know, and maybe you pretended you donot know, under CCP's evil control, CCP's logic is --believing the things CCP does not allow is breaking the CCP's law!

Here is an example:
On August 11th, high school sophomore Sun Yanpei was arrested by policemen from the Chinese Communist Party’s notorious 6-10 Office. They arrested her at her school in Zhaoyuan City and placed her in the “Zhaoyuan Legal Training Center” at Lingnan Goldmine. Each day, the police threaten her with various kinds of torture and demand that she reveal her mother’s whereabouts. Her mother, Teng Yingfen, was fired from her job due to her firm belief in Falun Gong and has since become homeless. Sun has refused to offer any information and has requested that she be released immediately to continue with her studies. Her jailors have not acquiesced. Yanpei, only 16 years old, is going on a hunger strike, which she will continue until the day she is released. Her teachers have tried to intervene on her behalf with the local 6-10 Office officials, letting them know in no uncertain terms that Yanpei is a very good student and that they wish to see her back in class as soon as possible, but the officials have been deaf to the teachers’ good sense.
more here:
www.theepochtimes.com...

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom

As for the poverty, only 10% of the population is below the poverty line, there is also poverty in America, how is it special?

Can we stop trying to compare countries? This isn't a "Let's compare human rights violations" thread.

Also, you might be interested to read this:

The number of Chinese citizens below the poverty line that the World bank calculated was more than seven times higher than the figure the Chinese government presented.

Furthermore, if the Chinese government had used a daily standard of 0.3 U.S. dollars per individual, just 10 cents more, the number below its poverty standard would have been 90 million, tripling the estimate. “Our country’s poverty standard is very low. Those who have escaped poverty are not necessarily stable financially,” Liu said.

(emphasis mine)

What's very clear is that not only are China's poverty standards much different than those of the World Bank (considered the reliable source for calculating such things) but that even taking this into consideration there is a massive disparity between "rich" or even "comfortable", and "yeah, ok, we might be above the poverty line, but that's so low to start with...".

It doesn't help that some employers provide services/items in lieu of monetary pay, regardless of the needs of that employee.

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