What America could learn from Amsterdam..

Ok, I once traveled to Amsterdam. I was beyond excited. Alls I knew going there was that weed was legal, and that was a good enough reason from me to go.

However, once I got there, I quickly realized that there was SOO much more to that place than what I expected. Everydya was a new adventure. One day I spent touring the Heiniken brewery, and got the most drunk I have ever been before noon. One day I found the Rykes Mueseum. Rembrandt everywhere !!! "Nightwatch", I think it was.

Then one day, totally by accident, I found Anne Frankes house. They had a tour, where you actually went behind the fireplace and up the stairs. (which Amsterdamn seems to have ALOT of stairs...very very small ones...)
That was very moving. Everything was pretty much still there, even her bathroom, which, not trying to be funny here but, she has the nicest toilet I've ever seen. Seriously, if anyone here has ever been there, they'll back me up on this. Anyrate....me, being the stupid American I am, always thought that she was in Germany...oh well...

************************************************************

On to my point.....


Since Ive come back, I've gained a different perspective on things. And I think the Dutch have figured it out. They understand that people are going to do what they want. Like it or not, we like to get inebriated in as many ways as possible. You cant stop it, so why not control it the best you can?

Why shouldnt states here be allowed to sanction off certain parts of willing cities to allow a type of "red-light" district? Some may argue that our government keeps marijuana illegal because of money, but more is to be made from controling the supply of it, than is fighting it.

If cities were allow to tax and collect on these districts, substantial sums of money could be made. Look at how much casinos put into local economies. Add legalized prostitution and marijuana/hash bars, youve gotten yourself a cash cow.

Now, I'm not suggesting entire cities of whores and hyrdo, but rather zoned districts, away from schools and things like that. Regulated, taxed, licensed and medically examined workers.

If a woman wants to earn a living getting paid for something she does freely, then who are we to stop that? A regulated industry would only help them.

Well the reason this little utopia will never happen here, is because of control. Its not the dangerous drugs, or the disease filled women, its about CONTROL....

Our government does not whan us to feel free or safe. They want us scared all the time. Lock your doors and mind your business. (unless you dont trust that guy across the hall.....) A society kept in fear, stays in line.

My personal opinion thinks that if this were allowed, youd see alot less child aductions, rapes, and murders. I think if people are able to go let off some steam, they stay normal. If any loser can roll into some club, pay a girl some money and get his rocks off, he's alot less likely to kidnap and rape some random woman, because he hasnt had sex in 5 years. Granted, pyschos would still exist, but I think the world would still be safer (and women would be to).

But, no....we "the free" can not find a single place in this country where we are "allowed" to do this. Everyday, more and more people locked up for marijuana. Our government says "It's ok to get f**ked up on alcohol, but not on anything else!!" Yet every day theres a new tougher DUI law. Theres more deaths from DUI's and pretty much, alcohol is out there every day ruining alot of peoples lives, and government sits back and pretty much encourages it. Yet get caught with a joint, and your going to jail. Hypocritical doesnt even come close....its pure evil.

Our government would rather have us sitting around getting drunk or nursing hangovers, so that we become even fatter and lazier. We are easier to control that way. They want no sort of drug that allows for different thoughts. They want us drinkin, eatin and sleepin. Any drugs that encourage the thought process are dangerous!

And as far as the legalized prostitution goes....Im just confused. I mean, why not. Seriously. Is it some hang up, left over from a religous thing? If they were regulated, I see nothing wrong with a woman who wants to earn her living like that....If you got it, use it! Whos the government to tell you what you can and cant do with your own body? I'd rather a medical agency than a pimp looking out for these girls. Plus alot of rapists urges would be qwelled.

The best I can come up with is that they want the pyschos out there. Keeps us in check. We lock our doors at night. We dont talk to strangers. We dont trust people we dont know. We live in a scared society. It was Marylin Manson who said [ " You turn on CNN and its "Flash Flood!" or "School Shooting!!" cut to commercial and "its buy the oxy" or," buy the colgate!" If you got bad breathe, the girls wont like you, or if you got pimples the girls wont "f" you...we live in a society of fear and consumption. ]

More needs to be done to see that our states individual rights are restored. People of the state should be allowed to pretty much do what they please outside of discriminate.

The federal government should be here to pave the roads, protect our borders and give international help where needed. Thats it. But for some reason they like to keep us under lock and key. I wonder why......


[edit on 7-7-2005 by spliff4020]

You have voted spliff4020 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month

Great post, and I agree with you (as strange as that may seem).
*Looks to make sure the world isnt ending*


It is unfortunate that a society like the one you are talking about wont happen in the UPSB (UnitedPoliceStates of Bushlandia) I mean America.

Well if you made too many things legal look at how many people would be out of work, the judges, the lawyers, the police, prison guards, and employees of that industry which also includes companies hired to build prisons, the wardens and his staff, then there is the people selling the food to feed the people, the parole officers, I am sure I have missed a bunch,and I am not saying that there would be no need for these people just a huge reduction in the need for them. Then you got to count other industries which depend on our fear, guns, bullets, maze, tazer makers and then there is the industry of self defense. The fines and money made from the prosecution of people. The people making those ankle bracelets, handcuffs, etc.. Keeping us all in a fearfilled sheep like state is good for the government.
Chris Rock once said in his comedy routine to stop worrying about banning guns just to make the bullets like 5000.00 a piece. I think maybe in 2008 we should run Chris Rock for President at least then we would have a professional comedian in office although we have had some that could have done the job of a comedian at times.

[edit on 7-7-2005 by goose]

KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY WEED!!!!

The do not need to regulate it, grow it, distribute it, or tax it. All they need to do is make it legal.

you dont need the government to "regulate the weed, but more to insure the prostitutes all receive the proper medical attention....the growin would be left to the individual grower...

Originally posted by goose
Well if you made too many things legal look at how many people would be out of work, the judges, the lawyers, the police, prison guards, and employees of that industry which also includes companies hired to build prisons, the wardens and his staff, then there is the people selling the food to feed the people, the parole officers, I am sure I have missed a bunch,and I am not saying that there would be no need for these people just a huge reduction in the need for them. Then you got to count other industries which depend on our fear, guns, bullets, maze, tazer makers and then there is the industry of self defense. The fines and money made from the prosecution of people. The people making those ankle bracelets, handcuffs, etc.. Keeping us all in a fearfilled sheep like state is good for the government.


[edit on 7-7-2005 by goose]

but what about the cannabis economy??
11 billion dollars estimated...munchies/dvds/computer games etc
observer.guardian.co.uk...

u get my above vote spliff..good post..and yes IMO amsterdam has the best system in the world..and everyone is so laid back..1 of the lowest drug related crime statistics in the world..so i think they are doing something right

oops double post


[edit on 7-7-2005 by Heratix]

Exactly. If you legalize weed and '___', who are the bad guys (FBI, ATF) going to shoot at. Washington thrives off meaningless beuracracy. They would never let something that cost $18 billion to the tax payer slip away. Just think of all the hands that money passes before it gets spent.

Prositution is legal in some counties in Nevada. Yet they still have a problem with prostitues in counties where it is not legal. The girls in legal brothels have regular checkups and are protected from violence.

But in Reno and Vegas where it is not legal, you still have hookers that are willing to put thier life on the line to offer convience. And even though most of the brothels are located outside of the cities, you still have goups that circulate petitions to ban legalized prostitution.

Originally posted by darkelf
Prositution is legal in some counties in Nevada. Yet they still have a problem with prostitues in counties where it is not legal. The girls in legal brothels have regular checkups and are protected from violence.

But in Reno and Vegas where it is not legal, you still have hookers that are willing to put thier life on the line to offer convience. And even though most of the brothels are located outside of the cities, you still have goups that circulate petitions to ban legalized prostitution.

True, but if there multiple places where this was allowed, the less danger there would be for them. And the women in Vegas are still pimped. Plus, Vegas still has it banned.

but what about the cannabis economy??
11 billion dollars estimated...munchies/dvds/computer games etc
observer.guardian.co.uk...



I'm not against making these things legal. I think they should be. I am just pointing out all the reasons the government would never do it. After all we live in a country where the poor souls being prescribed this for medicinal reasons, for diseases like cancer, in states where it is legal for a dr. to prescribe it and we have the feds threaetening to go after them.

[edit on 7-7-2005 by goose]

Contact your politicians at every availabel opportunity.
I just received this yesterday, about 20 days after i contacted him about this a second time.

Thank you for contacting me regarding medical marijuana.
I appreciate hearing from you and I welcome the opportunity to
respond.

I share your support for the potential benefits medical
marijuana may have over other narcotics in treating pain. You will
be pleased to know that on June 15, 2005, I voted in favor of an
amendment offered by Representatives Hinchey and Rohrabacher
to the Fiscal Year 2006 Science and Departments of State, Justice,
and Commerce Appropriations bill that would have prohibited the
use of funds in the bill to prevent states from implementing state
laws authorizing the use of medical marijuana. Unfortunately, the
amendment failed by a vote of 161-264.

The debate over whether or not to relax current laws
regarding the purchase, sale, and possession of marijuana has been
very contentious over the past few years. I have researched and
studied this issue for a long time and met with many experts,
including both doctors and patients living with uncontrollable pain.
Many argue that marijuana is necessary to help sick patients ease
their pain, while others argue that existing lawfully prescribed
medicines serve the same or better therapeutic purposes and that
we need to take bolder action to reduce marijuana use in this
country. Recently, new evidence was brought to my attention
illustrating the potential benefits of using medical marijuana over
other narcotics in treating pain. Please be assured that I will
continue to closely monitor this situation, keeping our shared
support for the benefits of medical marijuana very much in mind.

Thank you again for contacting me. As your
Representative in the United States Congress, it is a privilege and
an honor to serve you and to act as your voice in Washington.
Please feel free to contact me again with any other issue or matter
that concerns you. You may also want to visit my website at
www.house.gov/rothman where you can sign up for my e-
newsletter and keep current with my latest Congressional activities
and policy statements.

Sincerely,

Steven R. Rothman
Member of Congress

You have voted spliff4020 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month

Holland's a very strange place; neighbourhood brothels (next to the shops!), hard-core porn in the newspaper shop, dope bars in all cities and some towns but there are regions where you can't buy alcohol on Sundays. (Dope bars are licensed which costs and makes sure they only sell dope - and cakes lol:, but dope isn't taxed)

Their emphasis on freedom as long as you don't bother other people is absolute, hence recent decisions to deport many Muslim immigrants - they just didn't get it.

Seems to be a very fair and decent society, mind you the food IS poor.

I like Dutch people, i think they are the most laid back society on Earth, Ive been on Holiday with some of them and they are amazing people. America is a different place to Holland, i don't think there lifestyle would be accepted there, i think its cos you like your Churches so much, why not emigrate to Amsterdam and live the life you want?

I agree with you spiff but some states are a lot farther away from this than others.
I know in some southern states you still can't buy beer on sunday and have some counties that are dry ,no alcahol at all.You spend the night in jail if your caught with a seed or roach.Can you imagine the bible beaters if the subject of legalized prostitution came up.

The government should give each state free reins on subjects like this.I know they sort of do, but even in the states like california were they have decided medical marijuana and cannabus clubs are legal the federal government comes in and hassels or even arrest the owners.

Originally posted by spliff4020
Well the reason this little utopia will never happen here, is because of control. Its not the dangerous drugs, or the disease filled women, its about CONTROL....

Our government does not whan us to feel free or safe. They want us scared all the time. Lock your doors and mind your business. (unless you dont trust that guy across the hall.....) A society kept in fear, stays in line.

You have voted spliff4020 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

I agree with you 100%, and its interesting you posterd this because I was thinking about this recently too. When the goverment goes to far is when they're protecting us from ourselves. We should be allowed to do whatever we want as long is doesn't affect someone else in a way they don't want to be affected.

Legal Marijuana- This would save money on the War on Drugs and the money spent on imprisoning users, while making money off of the billion dollar industry.

Legal Prostitution- As long as diseases are not being spread, than who cares what they are doing? Its going to happen anyway, they could at least make it safe.

This is the first vote I've ever given out, and again good job.

[edit on 7-7-2005 by Charlie Murphy]

Originally posted by TahoeSkiBum
I agree with you spiff but some states are a lot farther away from this than others.
I know in some southern states you still can't buy beer on sunday and have some counties that are dry ,no alcahol at all.You spend the night in jail if your caught with a seed or roach.Can you imagine the bible beaters if the subject of legalized prostitution came up.

The government should give each state free reins on subjects like this.I know they sort of do, but even in the states like california were they have decided medical marijuana and cannabus clubs are legal the federal government comes in and hassels or even arrest the owners.

It aint just the south. I live in Indiana, and we cant buy booze on sundays either. But thats not a federal law, its an individual states choice.....the way it should be. But when the supreme court steps in and uses interstate commerce laws and supercedes the individual states rights, something is desperatly wrong.

The states should just be allowed to do as they please.....thanks for the help george, but no thanks.....

ah, the people who started shippin africans to the new world,yeah gotta love em.

Someday man should learn how to enjoy liberty without license, nourishment without gluttony, and pleasure without debauchery. Self-control is a better human policy of behavior regulation than is extreme self-denial.

Urantia Book

Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.

Urantia Book

Nowhere have I read or heard a better or more succinct argument against your proposal, Spliff, than the ones quoted above. History has proven that a devaluation of morality is the bane of civilization. That will never change.

[edit on 2005/7/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
History has proven that a devaluation of morality is the bane of civilization. That will never change.

- Well I beg to differ Grady. I think this is not a matter of the 'devaluation of morality' at all. I think it's more a case of wising up to actual reality and ditching the sloganising.

Humanity has always enjoyed intoxication of one form or another since the year dot and criminalising huge numbers of our people on the basis of a relatively minor recreational offence is an expensive absurdity IMO.

The sky has not fallen in on Holland and in fact their approach has led to improvements in the rates of addiction and with regard to the worst aspects of drug abuse.

I personally have examples of those who have 'over done it' close to me and my family (a terrible combination of drink and drugs) but I still say the worst thing that ever happened to them was to be left to the 'mercy' of the penal system and the criminal drug 'market'.
If we had had a system like Holland's they could have gone and done their weed smoking without being criminalised or in the clutches of those whos' interests were to manipulate them and their friends into 'harder drugs'.


[edit on 8-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]