Two Flashes, And A Bigger Bang Than 'Expected'...

Wiss, read the link before you post. Tempel is emitting x-rays, according to the European Space Agency.

Don't be too sure about antimatter supplies. The US rolled over on stopping nuclear testing WAY too easy. That tells me nuclear is obsolete. The black budget has plenty of room for grams of antimatter, let alone milligrams.

And solid-state crystalline confinement- the latest tested and proven technology- makes miniaturized shock-detonated capsules (like Captain Kirk's little antimatter mortar) oh-so-possible.

Originally posted by Chakotay
Wiss, read the link before you post. Tempel is emitting x-rays, according to the European Space Agency.

Alright, fine, but did you see the ideas as to why it is? It has nothing to do with antimatter.

Don't be too sure about antimatter supplies. The US rolled over on stopping nuclear testing WAY too easy. That tells me nuclear is obsolete. The black budget has plenty of room for grams of antimatter, let alone milligrams.

And solid-state crystalline confinement- the latest tested and proven technology- makes miniaturized shock-detonated capsules (like Captain Kirk's little antimatter mortar) oh-so-possible.

And you got this information from...?

I find it interesting that we just happen to take a shot at a comet named, of all things, Tempel1 (the first temple?). I know, I know, that was the guy's name.

We have postulated in the past that comets are what brought water and life to Earth, and such. Is someone trying to get a jump on Revelations here? Way too many coincidences and 'unexpected results' for me to be comfortable with. Watch the thing change course and start heading here now.

Of course, this post is pure speculation, not scientific fact. Chakotay is on to something, and doing a good job of backing it up. Keep folowing that hound, my friend.

Originally posted by Chakotay
Comet Temple is an x-ray source.

Explain THAT under the standard model for comets.

Maybe we just nuked an alien space ark (tounge in cheek)

Hmm. That post says that " XMM-Newton observed that Tempel 1 emits X-rays, as suspected from previous observations of comets, but this emission is very weak." So in other words a lot of comets emit x-rays, even those that havent had a lump of copper fired at them. Whats the point of your post

The point is, there is no accepted mechanism for these emissions. Halton Arp and others have gone so far as to postulate that many comets are made of antimatter; that impact of the solar wind and subsequent anihilation events produce the x-rays.

Which could raise the question: are we 'matterlings' the oddballs in the neighborhood? Maybe everybody else are 'antimatterlings' and we are in cosmic quarantine.

Now all this antimatter comet / x-ray comet hoopla began- just before the Deep Impact mission.

Ensuring that when anyone pipes up with 'antimatter signature' or 'gamma-ray event' or similar, everyone goes 'yawn...'

While JPL gets the data they need to really go after a world-killer with micropulse units.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it- and Cmdr, my sources remain 'confidential'...

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid

Originally posted by Chakotay
Wiss, read the link before you post. Tempel is emitting x-rays, according to the European Space Agency.

Alright, fine, but did you see the ideas as to why it is? It has nothing to do with antimatter.

Don't be too sure about antimatter supplies. The US rolled over on stopping nuclear testing WAY too easy. That tells me nuclear is obsolete. The black budget has plenty of room for grams of antimatter, let alone milligrams.

And solid-state crystalline confinement- the latest tested and proven technology- makes miniaturized shock-detonated capsules (like Captain Kirk's little antimatter mortar) oh-so-possible.

And you got this information from...?

Exactly my point. I like a good star trek episode too, but I dont read too much into it!! Just because Captain Kirk has tons of antimatter, it doesnt mean we have as much.

Also, if you havent noticed, Star Trek, Captain Kirk, and the Starship Enterprise are not real. Its a nice show, and reflective of the 20th century, but nothing more.

This has nothing to do with Star Trek, Wiss- despite my humor. I suggest you use findemaschine.pro-physik.de... to research some serious background so you can communicate on topic in a constructive way. In the meantime, here is an interesting link for you: science.nasa.gov...

This is public, non-classified information for you (and therefore about 20 years behind the state-of-the-art) from an old test pilot who knows the difference between SF and science.

Edit: I want to make my spin on this perfectly clear: I hope they did it. We need the biggest bangs for the buck we can get up there if God forbid we ever discover a comet on a collision course for Earth.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by Chakotay]

Chakotay,

May I suggest a break from Star Trek reruns? I know Spike TV plays a good five hours or so a day, then to top it off with a couple of hours of it on Sci-Fi, that makes for some good entertainment.

Still, Im not going to read any link you provide, simply because I think that you lost all credibility with the Hoagland support.

There are no aliens inside a friggin comet. There is no NASA coverup on whats 'really' going on out there. The fact is, no one cares about the damned comet, the stupid probe you insist is a conspiracy to test an antimatter warhead, or Richard Hoagland.

I give you an A for effort, but theres no conspiracy here. Fact is that most people have better things to do that wonder about the space program. We havent gone anywhere in 30 years besides a low orbit. Thats not very exciting. Ill watch the Discovery launch on TV wendsday, only because its the first time in 20 years that they are airing one.

Get antimatter and warp cores off the mind and step back into the 21st century.

Originally posted by WissNX01
Still, Im not going to read any link you provide, simply because I think that you lost all credibility with the Hoagland support.

I do not support Hoagland. In fact, I disagree with his hypothesis in this case. I referenced him as thought-provoking and interesting.

We havent gone anywhere in 30 years besides a low orbit.

Where have you been? Oh, yeah, TV

What do you call a 300 mile high orbit? no where. Yeah, we can send probes anywhere and everywhere, but a human being hasnt left the Earth for anywhere useful in 30 years.

Your a fool. Whats the point of quoting anything Hoagland if your secretly against it? Thats absurd.

And speaking of TV, I dont watch it often, so dont presume that my ass is parked in front of one.

Also, rereading the article makes me wonder how the hell did you conclude they used antimatter? The even stated that this was caused because of a change in density and matter composition. Im just curious about that leap in logic.

Chakotay's First Global Ignore Award! I've never used my ATS ignore button before. I've endured racists, bigots, murderous zealots, and worse with a grin. But you're the one with the moxie, bro. You won the prize. Expect this reaction from every intelligent person on here when you stoop to name calling instead of serious inquiry.

Bye bye



Back to the discussion: where are the missing spectra? Why isn't NASA letting us look at the isotopic abundances?

[edit on 12-7-2005 by Chakotay]

Plenty of spectra to look at here. www2.keck.hawaii.edu... (to big for my dial-up). This is just a snipet of initial spectra after impact.

We observed comet 9P/Tempel-1 on UT 4.3 July 2005 using the NIRSPEC high dispersion infrared spectrometer at the Keck-2 telescope on Mauna Kea, Hawaii. Spectral acquisition began at 05:22 UT (30 minutes before impact) and continued until 8:10 UT. Acquired spectra cover the wavelength range 2.9-5.0 um at resolving power l/dl ~ 24,000. The IR continuum began to brighten immediately after impact, and brightening continued for the next hour. Spectral lines of H2O appeared almost immediately, and continued to brighten thereafter. The first instrument setting (28 minutes on source) revealed spectral lines of H2O (7 hot-band lines)), C2H6 (5 Q-branches: RQ2, RQ1, RQ0, PQ1, and PQ2), and CH3OH (many lines). The second setting (24 minutes on source) yielded additional hot-band lines of H2O,along with lines of HCN (six lines), C2H2 (tentatively two lines),CH3OH (many lines) and OH prompt emission. The third setting (14 minutes on source) tested CO and H2O; they are still being reduced. Preliminary reductions provide rotational temperatures for H2O (~ 40 K) and HCN (~ 50 K). The preliminary production rate for HCN is 5x10^25 s^-1 and for C2H6 it is 1x10^26 s^-1, assuming Trot = 50 K. The spectra differ dramatically from those acquired on UT 3 June 2005 with the same instrument.

Ethane, acetylene and methanol. Yum. What fuel crisis!

Should I tell Hoaxie or will you?

[edit on 12/7/05 by The Block]

[edit on 13/7/05 by The Block]

Thanks, Block. That's the kind of discussion I am looking for. Now the questions: are we looking at interstitial water, or vaporized ice? How much data can we wring out of these frequency ranges? Are we seeing any silicon, iron, copper or heavy elements? Or are we only being allowed to look for 'the elements likely to be found in comets' (quote from the JPL website)- according to the assumptions of the dominant paradigm? Given the spectra, the mass and velocity of the impactor, does e=mv2 account for the energy released? What was the gamma ray signature during impact?

And the big question: where is the NASA data? Anybody find a link yet?

How is it possible that this discussion is going on, and nobody comes up with this information:

Finally, why were there no images returned from the impactor seconds before impact? The lower right image is the last from the impactor camera. Thornhill predicted an electrical flash before impact. Yesterday’s TPOD reported the surprise expressed by NASA’s expert on high-velocity impacts, Peter Schultz, when two flashes were seen. The lack of images in the last few seconds would be explained simply if the impactor was hit by a “cometary lightning bolt” seconds before contact. The “whiteout” seen in the lower right quadrant indicates significant electrical discharging near the impact point. Data from the communications team and the flyby spacecraft cameras should decide the issue.

www.thunderbolts.info...

this is the link were the quote above came from.



These guys made predictions and were not surprised :

Tempel 1 has a low-eccentricity orbit. Therefore its charge imbalance with respect to its environment at perihelion is low. (It is a “low-voltage” comet.) Electrical interactions with Deep Impact may be slight, but they should be measurable if NASA will look for them. They would likely be similar to those of Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 prior to striking Jupiter’s atmosphere: The most obvious would be a flash (lightning-like discharge) shortly before impact.

More energy will be released than expected because of the electrical contributions of the comet.

www.thunderbolts.info..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">
www.thunderbolts.info...

this link gives you there predictions

Some extra information about comets maybe:

www.holoscience.com...

X-rays from comets not so strange maybe:

www.thunderbolts.info...

Have fun and enlighten yourselfs

Originally posted by Chakotay
The impactor was supposedly made from copper.

Could there have been a 'Twinkie filling'? Say, U235? Plutonium?

I don't think so. Remember that it takes an explosive device to set off a nuclear bomb and there's no such thing as a "little" one. Even the "suitcase nukes" apparently would obliterate several blocks of city; not dig a small hole.

Or a Penning Trap- filled with milligram quantities of antimatter?[/iquote]

They've never made more than a few atoms of it and it's highly unstable. Why bother? Plain old brute force will do the job very inexpensively.

And why inject all that other data? A nuclear device would put out all sorts of radiation and wild spectra, and that would interfere with the very thing they wanted to look at -- the first seconds after the comet was hit.

This last possibility is intriguing due to several disinfo stories leaked before the impact hinting that 'comets may be made of antimatter'- a farcical hypothesis perhaps floated to provide a plausible origin for an antimatter signature- if any- in the blast.

And there wasn't any.

Originally posted by Stefan
How is it possible that this discussion is going on, and nobody comes up with...

Way cool, Stefan.

So far for cometary bodies we have:

1. the dirty snowball theory (NASA gospel)
   
2. the exploded planet asteroid hypothesis
   
3. the antimatter comet hypothesis
   
4. the electric comet theory
   

I'm going for a fourth possibility: the electrified snowy dirtball theory.

And for impactors we have:

1. the antimatter/nuclear impactor hypothesis
   
2. the copper kinetic impactor hypothesis
   

I am still working on the numbers to make sure e=mv2 on this impact event- until I have enough data to rule out an antimatter-spiked impactor, for me it is an open question.

BTW, the Air Force had a public antimatter weapon program- that went deep black a few years ago.

Originally posted by Chakotay

1. the antimatter/nuclear impactor hypothesis
   
2. the copper kinetic impactor hypothesis
   

I am still working on the numbers to make sure e=mv2 on this impact event- until I have enough data to rule out an antimatter-spiked impactor, for me it is an open question.

Oh now we are to assume that even though antimatter is not in large quantaties, that you are going to calculate the physics of an event? Oh, this is rich!

Your whole thread relies on two things:

1, the belief, by you that we used antimatter against the comet. Again, theres no way that antimatter was used. The small samples that do exist are watched over pretty carefully, and not to be wasted on experiments by an organization that is prone to probe failures as of late.

2, First you quote Richard Hoagland as a source of superior knowledge. Then you backtrack later and say you were just putting him there as another side to this coin. Again, Hoagland is NOT a scientist. Hoagland is some crazy guy that lives in New Mexico and makes up rediculous theories and goes on the internet and radio. He isnt taken seriously by anyone.

I think your grasping at straws to support a rediculous theory that either:
A) aliens are living ont he comet.
B) Nasa Used antimatter
C) 'Strange' Gamma rays are comming off it.
D) Huge coverup, to what end, please enlighten us
E) YOu have no idea
F) All of the above.