Two Flashes, And A Bigger Bang Than 'Expected'...

Deep Impact has produced several interesting 'unexpected' results:

1. Two flashes: a first, smaller flash, then a second larger flash- from a single impactor (!)
   
2. A larger explosive outburst 'than predicted'...
   

The impactor was supposedly made from copper.

Could there have been a 'Twinkie filling'? Say, U235? Plutonium?

Or a Penning Trap- filled with milligram quantities of antimatter?

This last possibility is intriguing due to several disinfo stories leaked before the impact hinting that 'comets may be made of antimatter'- a farcical hypothesis perhaps floated to provide a plausible origin for an antimatter signature- if any- in the blast.

Sounds like the 911 thing, with the two flashes when the plane hits the towers. Maybe the impacter had a missle underneath it.

The copper impactor was just that, copper. Just because there were two flashes does not mean that there was a nuclear warhead onboard. There are several other, more plausible, explanations that I've come up with off the top of my head...

Explanation A
The first flash was the impactor hitting the comet initially and spreading material out on the surface in a shockwave. The second flash was this material rushing back in to fill the hole and then colliding with itself and being force outwards.

Explanation 2
The first flash was the impactor hitting the comet initially. The second flash was from gas pockets exploding in the area of the impact from the sudden heat and pressure.

Explanation C
Aliens are living on the comet and the first flash was them launching a missile to blow up the anti-matter impactor, which caused the second flash. (Hey, we can't take life TOO seriously, can we? )

As for antimatter...
No, there was not any antimatter aboard the impactor either.

You say there are "several" disinfo stories, but yet there appears to be only one. Aside from that, the website in question takes something that appeared in the NY Times, mainly said in jest, as fact.

The NY Time article says, "Alien space wars and antimatter comets are but two of the more exotic explanations that have been proffered in the past three decades for the flashes of high-energy radiation known as gamma-ray bursts..."

Anything put in there with "alien space wars" is obviously just for a rise out of the readers.

That website is one of a new trend of websites I've been seeing more and more. That trend being to have good, accurate sounding science while at the same time being complete and utter bullsquash.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
As for antimatter...
No, there was not any antimatter aboard the impactor either.

You might be right. Or not. And your explanation for the anomalous energy released is?

...the website in question takes something that appeared in the NY Times, mainly said in jest, as fact... "Alien space wars and antimatter comets are but two of the more exotic explanations that have been proffered in the past three decades for the flashes of high-energy radiation known as gamma-ray bursts..."

Anything put in there with "alien space wars" is obviously just for a rise out of the readers.

Actually, its not. Gamma ray bursts were first discovered by the US Air Force's Vela satellites. Preliminary explanations of GRB's while classified included ET communications, Orion-type pulse powered starships, and- you guessed it- alien space wars.

The stakes are high enough in the case of Deep Impact to have mounted a covert experiment: hit the comet with a pulse unit, calculate effect on downrange trajectory, observe comet composition and reaction. If we have a need for comet interdiction- and we do- and if there would be adverse public reaction to the presence of 'special ordinance' in space- and if someone like myself had oversight of this program- then this is a real possibility.

For a few of the other disinfo stories on antimatter comets, do an ARXIV search on 'Halton Arp Antimatter comets'...

[edit on 6-7-2005 by Chakotay]

A preliminary interpretation of the data indicate that the upper surface of the comet may be fluffy, or highly porous.

So no antimatter or other exotic materials.

It is interesting that the impact crater grow over time.

Originally posted by Chakotay
And your explanation for the anomalous energy released is?

What anomalous energy release? The second flash? Did you read all of my post, or just jump down to the antimatter part?

Actually, its not. Gamma ray bursts were first discovered by the US Air Force's Vela satellites. Preliminary explanations of GRB's while classified included ET communications, Orion-type pulse powered starships, and- you guessed it- alien space wars.

You really need to work on actually reading the links that you provide. No where in that article does it say anything about ET communications, Orion-type pulse powered starships, or alien space wars.

Gamma Ray Bursts
When they were discovered that's correct that we didn't know what they came from. Now though, since science has evolved greatly since the 1960s, we've come to the conclusion that they come from supernovae, hypernovas, and Wolf-Rayet stars.

www.matter-antimatter.com...
That website is LOADED with bad science. It looks good, sure, but nothing on it should be taken seriously

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
What anomalous energy release? The second flash? Did you read all of my post, or just jump down to the antimatter part?

Commander, some respect please. NASA has been quoted by the BBC as saying 'The plume of material was bigger and brighter than expected.'

You really need to work on actually reading the links that you provide. No where in that article does it say anything about ET communications, Orion-type pulse powered starships, or alien space wars.

Do not give reading lessons to the holder of a doctorate. I did not say that the link provided discussed ET. It is a fact that the US Air Force originally considered the possibility of an ET origin for the VELA gamma ray bursts- one that is documented and now declassified:

from scienceweek.com... :
'GRBs were first reported in 1973 on the basis of 1969-1971
observations by the Vela military satellites monitoring for
nuclear explosions in verification of the Nuclear Test Ban
Treaty. When these mysterious gamma-ray flashes, which did not
come from Earth's direction, were initially detected, the first
suspicion (quickly abandoned) was that they might be the product
of an advanced extraterrestrial civilization.'

We do agree on one thing:

www.matter-antimatter.com...
That website is LOADED with bad science. It looks good, sure, but nothing on it should be taken seriously

And that is my point. Halton Arp and others have been spewing antimatter comet cover stories. Huntsville is working publicly on Penning Traps. The Navy is designing 100 year transit time missions to Proxima Centauri. All of this point to one possibility: antimatter as a black world practicality may have become a reality.

Some very interesting pictures and speculation here regarding the embargo of spectral data (where'd all the copper go?!):
www.enterprisemission.com...

Now please, stop stridently accusing me of idiocy, gather some data, and work the numbers.

[edit on 7-7-2005 by Chakotay]

Bump-post to bring back the discussion-

Now that ATS is back up.

Originally posted by Chakotay

Or a Penning Trap- filled with milligram quantities of antimatter?

Anti matter exists, but on Earth, such small quantities are hard to come by. Im sure NASA has some of thier own, but containing even a minute amount would take a huge vehical and a large amount of advanced technology. The probe that impacted the comet was very small, and no way that the thing was carrying any anti matter.

Originally posted by Chakotay
www.enterprisemission.com...

Now please, stop stridently accusing me of idiocy, gather some data, and work the numbers.

I dont mean to be insulting, but when someone actually quotes Richard C. Hoaglands website as a credible source, in my mind, they loose all credibility.

Hoaglands theories are seriously flawed, and have been debunked numerous times. Even less surprising, some of this theories are not even his own. He routinly steals them from others and skews them to fit his wacky ideas.

Hoagland has no advanced schooling or anything in any field of science. For Gods sake, this man was so dull that he was a museum curator at the age of 19!! Its clear this guy cant get laid.

Seriously, why do you quote Hoaglands website and credit his rediculous blog?

Whatever your take on Hoagland, you cannot deny that he has some 'interesting' takes on many subjects - or maybe you can.

Thanks for the link, I enjoyed my little chat with him.

To me this 'What materials are in this comet' seemed more a test to try if we could blow something out of the sky if needed.. Why not get it from the moon? Or is the moon more polluted then a comet? Nobody knows what hit that comet in it's voyage before and could be polluted to for all we know.. Maybe i'm just to sceptic about this whole project..

Originally posted by Trevor
Whatever your take on Hoagland, you cannot deny that he has some 'interesting' takes on many subjects - or maybe you can.

Im not going to deny he has some interesting fantasies. Hes purely entertainment, not even close to a real scientist, thus not credible.

Now when you take out an old yeller hound dog, it'll find things. Things uppity college professors overlook. It ain't degreed; it just knows something stanks over there. When it finds it, it might not know what it is; but you, who follow the hound dog, just might.

Hoagie's like that.

And this time, he's noticed the spectra are bogus and/or non-existant.

What does that mean?

'Someone' does not want us to know:

1. what the impactor was made of, and/or
   
2. what the comet is made of.
   

This comet is emitting x-rays now. The flash shown on the awesome pics on his website is OBVIOUSLY wat too bright in visible light for the described impact event- dust absorption alone would have obscured most of that flash as any combat soldier can tell you.

We are seeing some kind of high-energy event WAY beyond kinetic impact.

His theories may be right or wrong, but Gawd son you have to pay attention when that there Hoagie starts a' bayin.

Originally posted by Chakotay
Deep Impact has produced several interesting 'unexpected' results:

1. 
   
2. A larger explosive outburst 'than predicted'...
   

Their 'prediction' was wrong,because the whole scientific and academic communities
were firmly convinced that 'comets' were mostly just 'dirty ice'....
and impacts would act accordingly to those rules of physics,

and viola...their truth, their paradigm, turned out to be incorrect- -
now the task of weaving & spinning the new evidence into a
revised comet model is required to save face & tenure & credibility.

Originally posted by Chakotay
This comet is emitting x-rays now. The flash shown on the awesome pics on his website is OBVIOUSLY wat too bright in visible light for the described impact event- dust absorption alone would have obscured most of that flash as any combat soldier can tell you.

Erm... Where again does it say that the comet is emtting x-rays? And how would the brightness of the visible light be affected by it emitting x-rays, even if it were? You can't see them! And even if there were some x-rays emitted during the impact, I wouldn't be that surprised. When you have a TON of energy all being emitted at once, some of it is going to end up at a higher wavelength.

As for dust absorption, well maybe that would be true if the dust in a comet's nucleus were dense. It's not like the ammount of dust in a sand storm, it's more like a very large, fine haze. It's there, you can see it smuding some stuff out, but it's not hard at all to see through. So it wouldn't hide any explosion.

And Hoagland is a joke. All he says he says to sell more books. When he points out something it's generally him taking something and saying it's something else.

Comet Temple is an x-ray source.

Explain THAT under the standard model for comets.

Maybe we just nuked an alien space ark (tounge in cheek)

Originally posted by Chakotay
Now when you take out an old yeller hound dog, it'll find things. Things uppity college professors overlook.

Hoagie's like that.


'Someone' does not want us to know:

1. what the impactor was made of, and/or
   
2. what the comet is made of.
   

This comet is emitting x-rays now.

The impactor didnt have explosives, antimatter, or a secret communications device to communicate with the aliens living in the comet.

Its made of iron and ice. Its not special and not unlike what scientists thought they were made of all along.

XRays are all over space. I seriously doubt that a comet, an inanimate object, can do this unless there is some kind of radioactive material, which i suppose could be possible.

Again, Hoagland is not a scientist. And I would not send a hound in the place of a trained scientist who actually has training and the nessessary tools to make REAL and FACT-Based assumptions.

'Miligrams of Anti-matter!', so far we've only been able to produce PICOgrams of Anti-matter!

Originally posted by TPL
'Miligrams of Anti-matter!', so far we've only been able to produce PICOgrams of Anti-matter!

Exactly. And the containment requirements for those tiny samples are huge, and would not fit inside your little Deep Impact probe there Chakotay.