Does a Clone have a soul?!?

Originally posted by Valhall
Well, I do not believe that this will be answered until the first human clone can be observed.

THEN the question becomes, can we sense others' souls? Will it be obvious to us, detectable by us, if the clone has no soul?

This is a good point!! To answer if a clone has a soul can only come after knowing everything there is to know about the soul. Questions like:

1. Is it anyone's choice to have a soul in the first place?
2. Can you get rid of your soul by choice?
3. Does a soul have anything to do with the mental thinking version of you? If so then would that mean that multiple personalities are multiple souls in one body? Or that someone who's mentally ill and unable to comprehend such things do not have a soul?
4. Is it the desire to have a soul or the belief in a soul make one's soul any more evident?

Originally posted by Valhall
Well, I do not believe that this will be answered until the first human clone can be observed.

THEN the question becomes, can we sense others' souls? Will it be obvious to us, detectable by us, if the clone has no soul?

Although this could only be answered if done in a true scientific way. You woould have to have two clones, one would lead a normal full life. The other would have to be kept in a point of stasis void of all stimulus, the both would then both have to be observed in an enviroment after a set period of time.

REALITY CHECK:

We have clones living among us today. We have had clones for hundreds of thousands of years.

They're called "Identical twins." There is an original entity and a clone entity. That's the definition of "identical twins."

So... you have identical twins. One is born 50 years after the other one.

Does it have a soul?




(There. That clarify it for y'all?)

And Byrd has the only point -at this stage in our 'achievements" = that matters.
If we set aside the Pythagoreans, the Hindus, the animists, the pantheists, the chronically head-not-right's, and the Bolivian Chrysanthemium cults, "souls" are a human concern and if there are "souls" it would appear unarguable that identical twins -and they are in a very robust sense, "clones" - each have as much of a soul as the other.

There are doctrinal counter-arguments from the fathers and the Scholasts that might be deployed ( in essence the "transmission" of the soul via the umbilical cord after "natural" conception); but these are not canonical and are generally the drivellings of long-deceased disturbed monks.

Originally posted by Byrd
REALITY CHECK:

We have clones living among us today. We have had clones for hundreds of thousands of years.

They're called "Identical twins." There is an original entity and a clone entity. That's the definition of "identical twins."


So... you have identical twins. One is born 50 years after the other one.

Does it have a soul?






(There. That clarify it for y'all?)

I see where your coming from with this argument, but The problem is that both of those twins would have lead full lives. Dealt with and intereacted with many things and people. Which would influence the way they are shaped.
But what if a person has no stimulus? No friends, family interaction or anything? How does one develop as a person then. Any good sociologist will agree with a generalisation that we are all byproducts of our society and upbringing.For instance, criminals frequently have their actions blamed upon for upbringing and peer pressure.
So if an opposite situation, what would a person be like if left without any ifluence for their entire life?


(sorry about that crappy format of the post just now.

[Edited on 17-8-2003 by feygan]

"Yes". I think that was the gist of Byrd's posting. The hard word was what?

Originally posted by Byrd
REALITY CHECK:

We have clones living among us today. We have had clones for hundreds of thousands of years.

They're called "Identical twins." There is an original entity and a clone entity. That's the definition of "identical twins."

I see your point but identical twins aren't clones. Even the most identical of identical twins have differences within their genetic makeup. One will have slightly different biological differences over the other. An exact clone is an exact copy of your genetic code to the detail.

I personally was viewing the question from that viewpoint. For example: Imagine taking your genetic code and producing a new baby just like you in every way so that only environmental and/or social interactions would result in changes but all genetic traits good and bad would be exact to you now.

You know twins have a kinda of pyshic power between them, being able to experience what the other is it experiencing and being able to finish of each other sentences. Would clones have a kind of pyshic power between them?

Infinite that is an interesting question. I watched the video on the link you posted and it made me think, when he was talking about how clone babies are sold on the black market...People are choosing which specific characteristics they want their clone baby to have?!? that's crazy! It made me wonder who is a make-up of chosen and paid for genetics.... celebrities, models, athletes.... Do clone have the ability to reproduce?

Hey has anyone seen the Island of Dr.Mereau (sp?)
those hybrids look freaky....

Do clone have the ability to reproduce?

I think so. Theres no reaons why the shouldn't be able to. This means that a clones children will have some features like the non-clone i think. This is a complicated subject.

i have never heard of a clone living...and thats because it does not have a soul. A human cannot live without a soul.

wouldn't the clone share your soul because the clone is basicly the a copy of the person who has been cloned.

Originally posted by infinite
wouldn't the clone share your soul because the clone is basicly the a copy of the person who has been cloned.

I think that is essentially the question at hand. Which I think we are probably at a stalemate unless someone can produce more information other than theory's at this point.

Anyone know of any scientific data on a 100% human clone and how it worked out?

www.globalchange.com...

You can find multiple news sites that have this same basic story. There is one place that claims to have given birth to the first Human Clone. Scientists apparently had some doubts to their claims so they said test could be done to provide proof. But because Religious groups and Governments among other groups are throwing such a fit about the whole thing and trying to take custody of the child they are keeping the mother and child safe and hidden away from such things. So once again we all now sit in the dark with no answers and just speculation to whether or not this is even true because groups of people who want to control every aspect of peoples lives for one reason or another have stepped in and caused the whole story to be burried. Along with the story being burried also goes the truth in the claims. I am so sick of these power groups sticking their noses into everything resulting in the truth of what's going on in the world being hidden from the rest of us!!

If anyone has anything more up to date let me know, I would like to know more...

Just found this too....

www.gene.ch...

[Edited on 17-8-2003 by mOjOm]

There are several aspects to twins that if make it clear they are different people one example being fingerprints.

Fact is a pair a twin can be easily differentiated by the more common and uncommon methods of identification.

In no way can twins be identified as clones of one or the other.

For the sake of a reality check a clone is accomplished when a cell is taken from a host and stimulated to begin replicating other cells to the extent, it forms a copy of the host.

This does not involve sperm or eggs as with respect to the more common process of reproduction.

I am one of those oddballs who believe that everything has a soul. Every rock, tree, animal etc. Why do I believe that? I'll be damned if I know.

Infinite that is an interesting question. I watched the video on the link you posted and it made me think, when he was talking about how clone babies are sold on the black market...People are choosing which specific characteristics they want their clone baby to have?!? that's crazy! It made me wonder who is a make-up of chosen and paid for genetics.... celebrities, models, athletes.... Do clone have the ability to reproduce?

Hey has anyone seen the Island of Dr.Mereau (sp?)
those hybrids look freaky....

I'd suggest seeing Gattica....as the movie shows what can happen with selective DNA...

Interesting. Though much discussion has taken place im compelled to throw my hat in.

What is a soul? Is it not consciousness? The ether that is neither here nor there.

If an organism (man) has consciousness, then it follows that it has a soul. According to this theorizing, clones would have souls. Simple, but it makes sense.

We should be asking ourselves is their such a thing as a soul in the first place?