The future is going to be amazing

not if they r powerful enough

Hydrogen fuel cell powered car...not water.

SHUTUP YOU PUT DOWNER!!! LOL am kiddin

NOOOOO...................! you put water in......it breaks it from H2O into Hydrogen and Oxgygen! it burns the Hydrogen (remember fire uses Oxygen so) the only waste product is water vapour.

so um yea its much easier to say water than all that, and infact it is water powered, as thats what'll come out of the pump!



[edit on 11-7-2005 by Shadow88]

i thought hydrogen would be coming out of the pump.

Originally posted by Shadow88

Hydrogen fuel cell powered car...not water.

SHUTUP YOU PUT DOWNER!!! LOL am kiddin

NOOOOO...................! you put water in......it breaks it from H2O into Hydrogen and Oxgygen! it burns the Hydrogen (remember fire uses Oxygen so) the only waste product is water vapour.

so um yea its much easier to say water than all that, and infact it is water powered, as thats what'll come out of the pump!

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Shadow88]

ahhh, I think your confused...Hydrogen is what you going to be puting in your future car...not water. Yes, water vapor is the bi-product/exhaust, but its not powered by water.

for more on that 2012 mayan stuff read a great book by Terrence McKenna called 'invisible landscape' Its very interesting. all of McKenna's books are very interesting indeed. Another good book that parallels this topic would be Ray Kurzweil's 'the Age of Spiritual Machines' Mckenna talks about the exponential increase of novelty while kurzweil calls it the exponential increase of technology. Basically they are both talking about the same thing just each has a different perspective based on his own field of expertise. McKenna is an ethnopharmocologist so he studies cultures and shamanism while Kurzweil is a computer science guy.

My take on all of this is that were approaching this 'singularity' basically were advancing faster and faster, increasing novelty, new technology. Its evolution. Since its exponential we need to evolve faster and faster. how do we do that? biology has its limits. Technology is the answer. genetic engineering and mechination. now the interesting thing is this date of dec 21st 2012. doesnt seem too far off to me. Kurzweil points to around 2010 for computers to surpass the human mind for raw computation. A.I. is aleady deeply into development (just google CYC) So Im guessing the singularity will be the birth of the next step in the evolution of intelligent life on earth. That is, I think in 2012 a sentient A.I. will be born. It will exist, it will spread to the internet and become more powerfull. As our technology improves it will quickly make us obsolete.

Now I think there are a few big bumps along the way. Global warming is going to shatter our whole planets ecosystem. Peak oil is going to seriously cripple our manufacturing capabilities, our transportation of food and goods. Our whole economy will suffer the worst depression in the history of humanity. The new nanotechnology bieng developed is so inconcievably dangerous that it makes nuclear weapons look like childs toys. Think about what would happen if a renegade nano-swarm designed to reduce matter to its essential elements (perhapse to break down existing garbage dumps) went out of control and began devouring up everything in its path and multiplying itself as it went. if left unchecked the whole world could be reduced to a grey sludge of nanomachines and raw material in a matter of a couple years.

guyoplits i just cant keep focused on your words with that avatar sorry!!!

AND NO!!! HONDA SAYS THEY ARE USING HYDROGEN, but tht is FROM breaking down water into its base elements. it is a bad idea as it would have to be a closed tank and pipe that lock together. There are already working models for splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen from inside your car. It is supposed to be simpler and eco friendly. I think its something to do with electrolysis.

THE WHOLE IDEA of this type of car is that its going to use an abundant fuel source. i.e: water, as its everywhere.

[edit on 15-7-2005 by Shadow88]

[edit on 15-7-2005 by Shadow88]

guyopitz - wow...you have a dark mind.

Now how about I add a little optimism.

The atom bomb has being around for 60 years...and were still here.

as far as "the human brain will be surpased by raw computation power by 2010 goes...its probably allready been passed, and so what...I see that as a good thing.

and AI isn't born...its built.

and our technology will always be getter better...but we control it, and how would it make us obselete?

guyopitz
Global warming is going to shatter our whole planets ecosystem.

no it wont, and gloabal warming isn't caused by us humans, earth has had its temperatures rise and fall...meaning once it gets to hot we will have an ice age, which will likely last a few thousand years, and then the unthaw begins...it has being doing this for far longer then humans have existed...however i do admit that humans are increasing global warmings normal speed...but we can speed it up just as we can slow it back down and have it reverse...there are several concepts on the drawing board about what to do...and in time i'm 100% confident that it will be licked.

guyopitz
Peak oil is going to seriously cripple our manufacturing capabilities, our transportation of food and goods.

peak oil??? we have enough oil to last a long time yet...besides with hydrogen fuel cells as the likely replacement of gas that will help dramatically. and all technology has a trickle effect. "greener" methods for power are growing ever popular, wind is a big one on the rise. jet engines are constently being more efficient as well, and new ship propulsion methods exist as well. The fact is the worlds population wants to keep the earth in good condition so its a good place for there children as well, and there childrens childrem...and so on.

guyopitz
The new nanotechnology bieng developed is so inconcievably dangerous that it makes nuclear weapons look like childs toys.

??? Nuclear weapons are still by far the most destructive thing that humans have devised.
All nanotechnology is is small things...thats basically what it refers to, that why everbody knows that nanotechnology is the future because obviously for electronics and other things, smaller is better. like would you prefer to carry a laptop with you...or (in the future) a phone with a massive hard drive, a laser displayed keyboard, and then it will project your screen on a wall or something, and it will be your camera, mp3 player, organizer, basically a all-in-one type of unit. and that is just one of the billion examples of smaller is better.

guyopitz
Think about what would happen if a renegade nano-swarm designed to reduce matter to its essential elements (perhapse to break down existing garbage dumps) went out of control and began devouring up everything in its path and multiplying itself as it went. if left unchecked the whole world could be reduced to a grey sludge of nanomachines and raw material in a matter of a couple years.

I dont really think we need to imagine...Hollywood has being showing us examples for decades...2001: A Space Odyssey / Terminator 1, 2, & 3 / iRobot /and the newest movie "Stealth", and there are many more...I just cant think of anymore of the top of my head.

As for getting rid of our garbage dumps...Some of the stuff is biodegradable, some gets recycled, I think we should do more recycleing, but in the future we will have safe and easy and cheap access to space...so we can simply send all of our garbage and nuclear waste straight into out sun...and preseto, instant incineration.

[edit on 16-7-2005 by Murcielago]

I don't know if someone said this yet, but an awesome thing that is being developed and will be a great benefit in the future is giving blind people sight. I was watching the scientific american show I think and they had this thing which they implant into the person brain and eyes or something and they where special glasses that allow them to see. So far it is pretty basic but it gave a blind man the ability to see and distinguish between light and shade and basic shapes.

the next logical advanced should be concentrated on making shuttle launches cheaper and smaller eventually this tech would be available to people in the form of their own spaceships we would set up colonies on new planets likee the first settlers in america then humans would no longer rely on one planet

its a matter of survival but will we do it in time before and catastrophic disaster

there is no way that we can EVER hope to travel the cosmos in spacecraft.
It will simply take too long.

Every sub-lightspeed mission will take millenia, so its a one way trip, and only your childrens children will get to the destination.

Every above-lightspeed mission will take you there faster, but there is the possibility of time speeding up and everyone you know and love being dead when you get back, or you just turning into pure energy etc.....

This is why I find the program "Stargate" so much mor entertaining, as it portrays real-time interstellar travel. A type of travel where you can explore the deep dark depths of the galactic rainforest and be back before tee time.

I hold much higher hopes for a real stargate program, although it will be a LONG time before anyone figures it out.

Originally posted by Shadow88
there is no way that we can EVER hope to travel the cosmos in spacecraft.
It will simply take too long.

Every sub-lightspeed mission will take millenia, so its a one way trip, and only your childrens children will get to the destination.

Every above-lightspeed mission will take you there faster, but there is the possibility of time speeding up and everyone you know and love being dead when you get back, or you just turning into pure energy etc.....

This is why I find the program "Stargate" so much mor entertaining, as it portrays real-time interstellar travel. A type of travel where you can explore the deep dark depths of the galactic rainforest and be back before tee time.

I hold much higher hopes for a real stargate program, although it will be a LONG time before anyone figures it out.

its a long way off yet and hard to imagine but i think that would be the best tech breakthrough space travel for everybody heres hoping

Originally posted by Shadow88
there is no way that we can EVER hope to travel the cosmos in spacecraft.
It will simply take too long.

Every sub-lightspeed mission will take millenia, so its a one way trip, and only your childrens children will get to the destination.

Every above-lightspeed mission will take you there faster, but there is the possibility of time speeding up and everyone you know and love being dead when you get back, or you just turning into pure energy etc.....

It will happen eventually.

Also...If we use solar sails for example...there expected to be able to go 1/10 the speed of light, and if you have people on the craft they could be upt in stasis, and could be wokken up when they got to there destination, they could be in spasis you hundreds of years with out aging a day. But stasis is still a ways off, probably around 50 years or so.

and as far as we know...its impossable to travel faster then the speed of light...because the faster you go the more mass you gain to slow you down.

However there are loop holes...known as worm holes, but thats a L-O-N-G way off.

I think a future means of quick transportation is teleportation, If we had a teleportation machine on earth and one on Mars you could go from here to there in a matter of seconds...but even teleportation is a ways off...probably around 100-200 years.

oh...and you got that backwards...time doesn't speed up it slows down.

this would be way cool, a dream machine



www.wired.com...

Mercielago, man, If you read some of what ive read about any of these topics your optomism would seem misplaced. Im a generally optomistic person, As has been said, we've had nuclear arsenals and were still here. So yea sure things could still work out. Im just saying we've got some very hard problems to tackle and nobody is even putting any effort into it. It may already be too late.

go google PEAK OIL. we do NOT have plenty of oil. Sure theres tons of oil in the ground but demand is far outstripping our capacity to supply it to the world. China alone will soon be using up as much as we do if not more. Gas prices will continue to rise at an exponentail rate. consider the economics of a $50 gallon of gas. what would minimum wage have to be. Try as they might, the oil industry will never again be able to provide enough oil for the world to continue as it has for the past 50 years.

Global warming is real. There is simply no way to deny that we are having an effect on the atmosphere. I don't believe its a natural state. If you look at the fossil record there was a period in earths early history where the temperature rose by a mere 6 degrees and 90 percent of all life on earth perished. Now look at the best estimates of the scientific community on the current rate of increase and youll see that they estimate 6 degrees in our lifetime. Im actually rooting for peak oil just to buy us some more time. Bush isnt doing anything to help. The kyoto accords were pretty much completely disregarded by america. The biggest oil user in the world. Bush is an oil tycoon. He isnt going to let a little thing like the end of the world take a bite out of his profits.

your confusing nanotechnology with robotics and artificial intelligence and computer miniaturization. The nanotechnology im talking about uses nano-scale machines that self replicate to perform tasks. theyve already produced some that they can inject in your body that attaches itself to cancer cells and then heats up when bombarded with certain radiation to burn away cancer that is hard to operate on. There is a movement to create FAB-LABS or factories which produce replicating nanomachines that can create nearly any product you might need on the fly. Its a wierd concept. Also Ray Kurzweil spoke of nano-swarms which would be like flating clouds of nanites which would exist in the air around us at all times which could form into solid objects in our environment at will. this is super far reaching sci-fi stuff about web based artificial intelligences who can spontaneously manifest in the real world when a physical avatar is required, formed out of this swarm that would permeate our entire world.

Its going to become easy to make nano-machines and program them to perform a task. just imagine your average anarchist hacker deciding to send out his replicating machines like a virus to bring down the system. or a terrorist organization of sufficient technological prowess. they could destroy the world with this technology. it will quickly become more available and more workable by far than the construction of a nuclear weapon which requires specific materials and carefull design. But dont take my word for it. Look it up yourself. do your research. Optomism is healthy but be informed of the possible catastrophies. forewarned is forearmed.

man that avatar is freakin ditracting...everytime I have to read your comment I have to find a "post-it" (sticky note) to stick on my moniter to cover it up so I can read.

anyway...

guyopitz
we do NOT have plenty of oil. Sure theres tons of oil in the ground but demand is far outstripping our capacity to supply it to the world. China alone will soon be using up as much as we do if not more. Gas prices will continue to rise at an exponentail rate. consider the economics of a $50 gallon of gas. what would minimum wage have to be. Try as they might, the oil industry will never again be able to provide enough oil for the world to continue as it has for the past 50 years.

Yes, we do have plenty of oil, were always finding more of it...by drilling deeper and whatnot, besides, in case you havn't noticed the US is going to switch from the gasoline internal combustion engine to the hydrogen fuel cell, fuel cell cars are allready on the roads, albeit very few. But as more people buy them the supply will grow with the demand and large companies like bp & Shell and several others will incorporate a hydrogen fueling station in to there allready large and established gasoline infastructure.

$50 for a gallon of gas, come on, get your head outta ur ass. that will never happen.

within 5-10 years hydrogen fuel cell powered cars will be as common as hybrids are today, and 10 years after that the demand for hydrogen will surpass gasoline & diesel fuel combined.

guyopitz
Global warming is real. There is simply no way to deny that we are having an effect on the atmosphere. I don't believe its a natural state. If you look at the fossil record there was a period in earths early history where the temperature rose by a mere 6 degrees and 90 percent of all life on earth perished. Now look at the best estimates of the scientific community on the current rate of increase and youll see that they estimate 6 degrees in our lifetime. Im actually rooting for peak oil just to buy us some more time. Bush isnt doing anything to help. The kyoto accords were pretty much completely disregarded by america. The biggest oil user in the world. Bush is an oil tycoon. He isnt going to let a little thing like the end of the world take a bite out of his profits.

Now you starting to sound like the average tree huggin hippy that blames the worlds destruction on Bush...get real.

I have never heard of the 6 degree thing...nor do I believe it, things adapt to there climate.

of course the Earth is warming, no one says its not...Its just not all because of humans...The Earth is just continually doing its cycle. The Earth has been warming since the last ice age 13,000 years ago, and it will continue until the next one. However with the introduction of all our technology things like the automobile and several other things haven't been a good thing for the earth, and CO2 levels continue to rise, so we are making this next ice age come at us at a faster then usual rate...but as I said there are several things on the drawing board to get rid of the CO2 by giant filters, have cloud making machines, or a more extreme idea is to launch a GIANT solar shield, place it in the middle of the earth and the sun, so it acts like a giant screen for earth and shades out a certian percentage of the suns rays. For every problem...there is a solution.

I've never heard of nano-machines that can self replicate...links please.

and the nano stuff your talking about it a LONG ways off, like at least 50 years.

[edit on 18-7-2005 by Murcielago]

Is this still the same thread I posted on weeks ago? If it is, it certainly has taken on a different spin.

Oh! Do cells qualify as nano machines?

I agree with the previous comment about your avatar.

[edit on 18-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

Great thread guys, keep it going.

Guyopitz, love your description of the singularity. I haven't seen many talk about it here, but the concept is huge, and it is coming. Anyone interested, do a Google on Yudkowsky and 'Staring into the Singularity' if you need a primer. Or Verner Vinge. I think he has one of the earliest papers, but not as entertaining. I found a copy here of the former.

www.jefallbright.net...

But, you describe it, and claim you agree it is coming around 2012 give or take a few, but then you don't comprehend what that entails. When the singularity hits, there will be no oil crisis!!! Energy will not be coming from oil. In fact oil will be able to be readily created from pure energy, think of the replicators on Star Trek. Yes, that, or something similar. Fusion, or something far more exotic will be the energy source of the time, who knows what it will be, but it will. Maybe it will be possible to tap directly into the mesh of the universe and use the laws of nature to our means, until we in fact mesh with the universe itself!!!

Global warming... Are you kidding me! That is a trivial problem for a super intelligence to solve. Unbelievably trivial. Yes, there will be super intelligence, massive exponentially increasing intelligence. The Singularity entails that we have learned how to manipulate ourselves or our machines in order to increase their intelligence. At that point, as the theory goes, the more intelligent machines are better at doing this, and the rate of progress increases ever faster. Intelligence in our neighborhood then ramps up like a rocket until it reaches a maximum. Whatever that maximum may be. Then this intelligence spreads from our point outward into the universe at possibly the speed of light. Assuming light speed is any sort of limit in the post-singularity realm. Who knows what will be the nature of things.

Ever wondered why there have been no alien contacts? Have you ever thought that possibly when beings transcend the singularity, they enter the fabric of the universe itself? Hard to imagine? Maybe so, but it is the best logical explanation. There are trillions upon trillions of stars, yet we have no indications of extraterrestrials... Umm, think big. Think Pantheism.

Nanotechnology in the hands of terrorists? If it is before the singularity, it is possible. People in the know will have to guard against these sorts of dangers until warp time. After the singularity hits, nothing can harm the superintelligence, as it will be able to predict and counteract any threat.

I know it's hard to comprehend, but the world is going 'bye bye' according to our current experiences and expectations. Isn't that what Cypher said to Neo before he plugged out? Haha, interesting analogy. This will be the end of the world, and the ascendance to paradise if anyone wants a religious analogy...

Think about it.

TheMesh

To The Mesh and Guyopitz - Do both of you truely believe in the concept of the "singularity?" You don't harbour thoughts that humankind and machines designed by humans will reach an inflexion point somewhere on the upward slope of the knowledge curve? Do you both believe the potential of humans is really unlimited? Would not such a belief then imply that nature has created a perfect mechanism--humans? I find it difficult to believe that, in my view, imperfect humans can create anything that is, or is capable of, perfection.

In my future view, humans will indeed improve themselves through inorganic additions to themselves as well as through genetic changes to themselves and that over time humans will become true cyborgs. However, given that human beings take time to grow & develop, I believe our approach towards perfection will be limited by the time it takes for successive generations to reach the point where thay can contribute to further improvements. Because of this inherent limitation in humans, I believe that machines, once we have created a true A.I., will eventually pass beyond what humans can achieve. At some point in the far future humans may be regarded as pets.



[edit on 19-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

I want my hoverboard..... NOW!

sidenote, nasa needs funding. Ideas such as building the shuttle in space, or launching it from a high altitude bomber (thereby saving on fuel) have been proposed in the past. Whether we see maned missions to any other planet any time soon is doubtful. Robotic exploration is the go these days, cheaper (althought its technically still super expensive, but cheaper in comparison to man-mission), safer, and more effective, I'm afraid in the future we will probably see missions to the outer planets, (not that we need any as they are barren or gaseous wastelands) undertaken by maybe androids, or mechanized AI robots.

Of course we all watch the show, and want SG to be true (and atlantis to be a horrible lie, let's pretend-killoff then dissapear characters, bring new ones in, have endless plotholes, expect the fallout of a nuclear weapon to dissipate within about 5 seconds well list goes on)

... unless the physics from newton to einstein is proven all wrong, there is no such thing as FTL travel, nor will any of us ever live to travel to another star, let alone another galaxy. Hey, if science proved it right, hopefully it can prove it wrong, but that breakthrough needs to come plenty quick, gee i hope ebay delivers hoverboards. Until I can be the first kid gliding down my neighbourhood, hovering at a few inches from the ground, it's all fiction, and no science. It's entertaining, but its not moving us forward. now maybe if i use supercooled magnets and factor in the earth's ambient radiation, humm i wond..

astronimer68
At some point in the far future humans may be regarded as pets.

- People wouldn't allow that, and you cant compare humans to dogs, dogs are good pets because there not as smart as us.

Nobody would allow robots to get an upper hand on us. When they start beating us with there brain & brawn they will have built in fail-safes of something, like say a certian word or flip a switch and there dead. It will all be controlled by humans.