A Freemason spilling it all!!!(except modes of recognition)

"tree full of monkeys"
_____________________

Precisely........However, you fail to mention the fact that in that tree there
are "changos" ranging from your typical 600 lb. gorilla, to that lovable old
standby the chimpanzee, to ofc the "pesky" spyder monkey. I'm guessing
you are the latter...............................

*sigh*

Yet another potentially productive thread makes it's way down the sewer pipe.

I commend AngelWitch for a valiant effort.

Thanks Golfie, It was fun while it lasted

Originally posted by Centiment
I am making fun of the apparent mysoginistic
appeal of freemasonry that uses symbols
that express wisdoms that to me are......errr......
wiser than freemason.

You are making fun of something you obviously don't understand. You have failed to provide me with one example of masonic symbolism that glorifies women! Then you cry that Freemasonry doesn't allow women, but fail to understand that we are a FRATERNITY. Why don't sororities admit men? The fact of the matter is that Freemasons want to spend time and share masonic ideas with other men who share the same goals. There's nothing wrong with this, unless you have the maturity of an eleven-year-old.

"flinging cr*p"
________________

This is not what I would call valiant.....But then again, impersonating a
member of an organization, if that were the case, would not be considered
valiant either...........

Originally posted by billybob

crowley was an interesting dude.

He sure was!

he founded the OTO.

No he didn’t, The O.T.O. was formed by Theodor Reuss with Carl Kellner.

he called himself 'the beast 666'.

He also called himself, Abhavananda, Herr Hermann Rudolph Von Alastor, Ananda Vigga, Gerard Aumont, Francis Bendick, George Archibald Bishop, Reverend P. D. Carey, Elaine Carr, H. D. Carr, Christeos Luciftias, Cor Scorpionis, Alex C. Crowley, Alys Cusack,O Dhammaloyu, Fra. H. I. Edinburgh, Michael Fairfax, Comte De Fenix, Percy Flage, James Grahame, Arthur Grimble, Cyril Gustance, Oliver Haddo, C. S. Hiller, Lemuel S. Innocent, Dost Achiha Khan, Lavinia King, Ko Hsuan, Ko Yuen, St. Maurice E. Kulm, Maria Lavroff, Lord Boleskine, Major Lutiy, Mahatma Guru Sri Paramahansa Shivaji, Mahatma Sri Paramananda Guru Swamiji, S. J. Mills, Martial Nay, Percy W. Newlands, Hilda Norfolk, Sheamus O'Brien, G.H.S. Pinsent, Katharine S. Prichard, George Raffalovich, Ethel Ramsay, Barbey De Rochechouart, John Roberts, Mary Smith, Edward Storer, Count Vladimir Svareff, Ta Dhuibh, Alice Wesley Torr, J. Turner, Rev. C. Verey, Leo Vincey, Mark Wells, Thomas Wentworth.

What can I say, he liked using different personalities from time to time.

i don't know how you think you can deny a fascination with the 'dark side' that thelemites have.

The only ones I see who have a fascination with the “dark side” are frankly people like you… they see the dark side in everything.

instead of just being rude and calling me troll, why don't you tell me what the OTO does?

From oto-usa.org...
Ordo Templi Orientis U.S.A. is the U.S. Grand Lodge (National Section) of Ordo Templi Orientis, a hierarchical, religious membership organization. Our mission is to effect and promote the doctrines and practices of the philosophical and religious system known as Thelema, with particular emphasis on cultivating the ideals of individual liberty, self-discipline, self-knowledge, and universal brotherhood. To this end, we conduct sacramental and initiatory rites, offer guidance and instruction to our members, organize social events, and engage in educational and community service activities at locations throughout the United States.

i think anyone interested should do a simple google search, "OTO ritual".

Or better yet ask a Thelemite! Just post in the OTO thread and HeirX, or myself would be happy to answer your question.

i would go visit your OTO thread, but i'm not really interested in the OTO, right now. maybe later.

Then why in the bloody hell did you bring it up?

www.sacred-texts.com... for beastly references and bizaare #e

LOL I just find it funny as I just did that ritual, not 30 min before I read this. Inverse pentagrams are so scarrrryyyy.

www.freedomdomain.com... for sex and drug use during rituals

You should note that this is not an O.T.O. ritual; rather it is from an offshoot group the Chthonic/Auranian Branch of the Ordo Templi Orientis.

I apologize to the FreeMasons for hijacking your thread with O.T.O./Thelema stuff, but I think you guys know how it is. For others if you would like to know more about Thelema, The O.T.O., Aleister Crowley you can visit this current thread
www.abovetopsecret.com... and will answer your questions to the best of my abilitys

[edit on 7/7/2005 by Cug]

>>>>The fact of the matter is that Freemasons want to spend time and >>>>share masonic ideas with other men who share the same goals. >>>>There's nothing wrong with this, unless you have the maturity of an >>>>>eleven-year-old.


It's not really mature to want to hang out with other boys as though you were still at primary school.


I think freemasons are men who don't want to grow up from
primary school.



REAL adults can discuss in between regardless of gender, race, beliefs, and sex orientations.



(well...beliefs....unless you believe everyone should die but yourself...that
is another topic)


Cheers,


Cedric The Ephiminate



PS: what you refuse to look as a pentepetal looks for the common people as a pentepetal, and many masons symbols refer to dualities
that would be equivalent to a gender duality.

Ying and Yang.

Masons want to be abe to talk about ying and yang but only
from the perspective of Yang.


It doesn't make sense.


You are as clueless as a christian who would scream
to me versets of a forgered bible.


You're lucky that I am also clueless about sororities.
I've never been to college.


(I went direct to Universty)



Is freemasonry racist ? I never even thought
about that one. Being white I tend to forget
that when I see a bunch of white men
there is something missing.


At any rates...Though I can understand the
freemasons' rejection of atheists simply
because of their affiliations with esoterism
(which a lot of masons seem not even attracted
by), I still see the rejection of women as the
PERFECT reason why this system is a failure
as far as guiding for better humanitarian objectives.


A male-only club ? So be it, but that is not
how the congregation is described in their
mandate.


It should be made clear that Freemasonry
is the prolongation of Scout Years into adulthood.


Just don't call me immature for not buying into it.


Cedric Philomene

Originally posted by Centiment

Ying and Yang.

Masons want to be abe to talk about ying and yang but only
from the perspective of Yang.


It doesn't make sense.

Not to add fuel to the fire, but that is my personal problem with freemasonry. So I'm not interested in joining for that reason, but that is also not a reason to make the Masons the root of all evil that some tend to do.

No but if you debunk the power of freemasonry
and give it to better organizations with
political systems that are less failing it might
improve the world for a better place.


I don't think freemasons as anymore
evilish than christians or muslims.

It's always people who want the world
to be better.

Well, it's a chance we can discuss
it and....the fun part of freemasonry is....
that at the base it is open to discussions
because it doesn't follow precise Deism.

Cheers,


Cedric Phi Manchu

Originally posted by Centiment
It's not really mature to want to hang out with other boys as though you were still at primary school.

I think freemasons are men who don't want to grow up from
primary school.

Whatever you say man. It has nothing to do with immaturity. Among Freemasons, we have found other men who, like us, value masonic principles and want to work towards those ideals.

REAL adults can discuss in between regardless of gender, race, beliefs, and sex orientations.

Yes, but Freemasonry is for men.

PS: what you refuse to look as a pentepetal looks for the common people as a pentepetal, and many masons symbols refer to dualities
that would be equivalent to a gender duality.

Actually it's just a flower. A forget-me-not to be specific.

I challenge you to name ONE masonic symbol that refers to dualities that would be equivalent to a gender duality.

Masons want to be abe to talk about ying and yang but only
from the perspective of Yang.

You are completely mistaken about this. Again, I have no clue where you get your absurd ideas, but our symbolism has NOTHING to do with gender and EVERYTHING to do with morality.

You are as clueless as a christian who would scream
to me versets of a forgered bible.

You're the clueless one, my friend. You insist that masonic symbolism refers to gender, but have been completely unable to provide me with one example!

Is freemasonry racist ? I never even thought
about that one. Being white I tend to forget
that when I see a bunch of white men
there is something missing.

We have brothers of MANY races and cultures in my lodge, as well as in other lodges in my district. Phillipinos, Chinese, Hispanic, Black, White, Jewish... I have yet to meet a Muslim brother personally but I know they are out there. Please do some research before you post something that is not true.

At any rates...Though I can understand the freemasons' rejection of atheists simply because of their affiliations with esoterism (which a lot of masons seem not even attracted by), I still see the rejection of women as the PERFECT reason why this system is a failure as far as guiding for better humanitarian objectives.

You're right, many masons are disinterested with the esoteric side of Freemasonry, and that is fine. They are missing out on what Freemasonry is truly about, but this is their choice.

And we do not exclude women completely. There are masonic organizations like the Order of the Easter Star, Rainbow, Amaranth and Job's Daughters for women. They operate MUCH like masonic lodges do, but are for women (and sometimes men). So how is that a failure of guiding for better humanitarian objectives?

Freemasonry itself is a fraternity, for men. But women do have their masonic equivalent. Additionally, there does exist co-masonry, which is for men and women, but it is not recognized as officially masonic. In any case, if a woman is interested in Freemasonry, she has MANY options for joining and experiencing it.

Once again, you should have done some research before posting false information.

Originally posted by Centiment

No but if you debunk the power of freemasonry
and give it to better organizations with
political systems that are less failing it might
improve the world for a better place.

Why is it an all or nothing situation? The Masons have every right to improve themselves, and help others as they will.

And the power thin is just silly the only power a mason has is over himself, just like the rest of the world.

>>>value masonic principles and want to work towards those ideals.


Which are ?

You're engulfed into fanaticism.


For you a man is great cos he's a mason.

I'm sure you got posters of great masonics
on your walls.


Mason for the sake of mason.

It doesn't lead to much.


Your congregation says "come here
if you dream of a better world"
but offers nothing.




>>>Yes, but Freemasonry is for men.


Lol....why is it you want it so much to stay so ?

Do you habe arguments outside of...
"this is how it oughta be" ?


That is why I wanted Masonic Light
to reply because he is one of the rare
masonic here able to really argument his thoughts.




>>>>I challenge you to name ONE masonic symbol that refers to dualities >>>>>that would be equivalent to a gender duality.


Err....what about a chess floor ?


You just refuse to understand that your symbols
seen from outside your congregations
can mean tons of obvious things that you
demonishly insist to obscure.





>>>>our symbolism has NOTHING to do with gender and EVERYTHING to >>>>do with morality.


a male-oriented morality ?


Gosh...at least the greek hedonists knew how to have fun.





>>>You're the clueless one, my friend. You insist that masonic symbolism >>>>>refers to gender


Dualities !

Gender being one of them.




>>>>but have been completely unable to provide me with one example!


Do I have to draw a vagina and compare ?




>>>>Please do some research before you post something that is not true.


This IS my research.

Field research we call it.


Infiltration !!




>>> They are missing out on what Freemasonry is truly about, but this is ?>>>their choice.

(and later)

>>>>So how is that a failure of guiding for better humanitarian objectives?



See...if I play the Tarot to you, but take all the cards that figure women on it, you get only about half the cards. That gets you about half a solution.





>>>Once again, you should have done some research before posting false >>>>information.



I must be an heretic of some sort.




>>>>>And the power thin is just silly the only



Maybe I know a little more than some of you guys because
I am truly aware that freemasonry has power in hight spots.

But it is possible most masons are not aware of it.


Nothing like a conspiracy. On the contrary it's
more like ..academics.


Cedric Phiesta

Originally posted by Centiment
For you a man is great cos he's a mason.

I'm sure you got posters of great masonics
on your walls.

No, my lodge has frames of great masons, though. I admire certain masons because they were great men, not because they were masons. There's more than a handful of masons who I would rather have never met. So if you don't know me, how can you say? Quit trying to make yourself seem knowledgeable, your nothing of the sort.

Mason for the sake of mason.
It doesn't lead to much.

What doesn't lead to much is the oblivious speculation on your part. You've made some bold assumptions without anything to go on. You call that academics? THAT is conspiracy theory, my troll.

Your congregation says "come here if you dream of a better world" but offers nothing.

Offers nothing to you, and for that reason you shouldn't join. But it has offered MILLIONS of men, better men than you and I, a lifetime of learning and progress.

>>>Yes, but Freemasonry is for men.
Lol....why is it you want it so much to stay so ?

Do you habe arguments outside of...
"this is how it oughta be" ?

I want it to stay so because nowadays men have VERY little that is specifically for them. Freemasonry has always been the exception and has become an institution for men. For many masons, the work that masons do would be affected by the presence of women. It's sad to say so, but it's true. Women have alternatives to Freemasonry, there's no need to invade into our space which is the lodge.

That is why I wanted Masonic Light to reply because he is one of the rare masonic here able to really argument his thoughts.

I doubt he would waste his time on you.

>>>>I challenge you to name ONE masonic symbol that refers to dualities >>>>>that would be equivalent to a gender duality.

Err....what about a chess floor ?

A representation of Good vs. Evil, of the struggles a person faces in life, of consciencious decisions we must make every day, you think that represent opposite genders? Whatever, man. Symbols can be interpreted in many different ways. If that is your interpretation, so be it. But I don't think there are any masons who would agree with you.

You just refuse to understand that your symbols seen from outside your congregations can mean tons of obvious things that you demonishly insist to obscure.

And you refuse to understand that symbols can mean ANYTHING to ANYONE, but as masons we see those symbols as specific things that do not agree with your interpretation.

>>>You insist that masonic symbolism >>>>>refers to gender
>>>>but have been completely unable to provide me with one example!

Do I have to draw a vagina and compare ?

I would just like for you to provide me with one example of a masonic symbol which relates to what you claim. Can you do this?

Maybe I know a little more than some of you guys because
I am truly aware that freemasonry has power in hight spots.

But it is possible most masons are not aware of it.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight, millions of intelligent men have been deceived for hundreds of years, yet YOU know the truth! Get over yourself...

>>>>Quit trying to make yourself seem knowledgeable, your nothing of >>>the sort.


You cannot know nothing of my knowledge if we discuss Masonry.


There is not much to talk about with Masonry.


Masonry knowledge in your elocution seems to resound like
one big conative loop.




>>>>THAT is conspiracy theory, my troll.



Hey man...Respect the trolls.


Shrek will teach more in two hours what masons won't teach in an entire life.




>>>>But it has offered MILLIONS of men, better men than you and I, a >>>>lifetime of learning and progress.



Wow...you're a real fanatic.


Trust me I got my fair of ancient esoteric books, many consisting
of masonic, and that didn't teach me but a slight percentage
of what science, philosophy, and history books taught me.





>>>>I want it to stay so because nowadays men have VERY little that is >>>specifically for them.


Hmm.....Interesting.


You know in my town they are zillons gay saunas if you
want me to show you what it's like. In one zap
you will sense so much testoterone that you might
not feel like getting anywhere near any man
for a whole year.

(beware of the crabs, though)


Seriously, they are zillions of man-only clubs.

Try golf.




>>>For many masons, the work that masons do would be affected by the >>>presence of women.




Ok....you don't want sexual distraction.


I get it.



Masons would be better off announced as
a male-bonding club.

The esoteric material is far from being gender-oriented.




>>>>I doubt he would waste his time on you.


He would because ultimately my question makes
a lot of sense.





>>>>>>>A representation of Good vs. Evil


A duality.



>>>>>But I don't think there are any masons who would agree with you.


They are like so many different types of masons that I wonder why you insist putting them in the same bend.


Many masons don't take the thing as seriously as you wish they would.

For them it's just a club.





>>>as masons we see those symbols as specific things that do not agree >>>with your interpretation.


Masons AS one, yet they are all free to interprete things as they want.




>>>>I would just like for you to provide me with one example of a masonic >>>>>symbol which relates to what you claim. Can you do this?


/\ above \/ surrounded by 5 roundy ")" shapes, at equivalent angles.




>>>Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight, millions of intelligent men have been deceived for >>>>hundreds of years, yet YOU know the truth! Get over yourself...


What truth ?

Do you know when the Universe will last and what will "really" happen ?

That's the kinda truth that interests me.


Cedric The Ephiminate

Originally posted by Centiment
>>>>But it has offered MILLIONS of men, better men than you and I, a >>>>lifetime of learning and progress.

Wow...you're a real fanatic.

I am no fanatic, but Freemasonry holds a special significance in my life, like many other masons.

Trust me I got my fair of ancient esoteric books, many consisting
of masonic, and that didn't teach me but a slight percentage
of what science, philosophy, and history books taught me.

Freemasonry is an experience, not a science. It must be experience in order for its lessons to be taught.

Masons would be better off announced as
a male-bonding club.

The esoteric material is far from being gender-oriented.

In a way you are right. But the experience of the rituals is what brings masons together. The fact that all the masons are men allows for a deeper connection than if women were also involved. This is why I say that the effect would be hindered for some men.

They are like so many different types of masons that I wonder why you insist putting them in the same bend.

I just don't think your interpretation of masonic symbols has any significance masonically.

Many masons don't take the thing as seriously as you wish they would.
For them it's just a club.

I know, and I stated this a few posts back. You did as well. Pike has even agreed with this assertion, as has Manly P. Hall.

>>>as masons we see those symbols as specific things that do not agree >>>with your interpretation.

Masons AS one, yet they are all free to interprete things as they want.

Freemasons interpret symbols in masonic ways. That is the whole point of Freemasonry. Yes, we are free to interpret symbols any way we choose, but they cease to be masonic when certain interpretations are attached to them.

>>>>I would just like for you to provide me with one example of a masonic >>>>>symbol which relates to what you claim. Can you do this?

/\ above \/ surrounded by 5 roundy ")" shapes, at equivalent angles.

I don't understand what "5 roundy ')' shapes" are

>>>>Freemasonry is an experience, not a science. It must be experience in

Arff.....I know the answer...

a freemason can always lie saying he s got obligations if he doesn

Originally posted by lashlarue
"flinging cr*p"
________________

This is not what I would call valiant.....But then again, impersonating a
member of an organization, if that were the case, would not be considered
valiant either...........

I will prove my identity to any Brother who asks, but I feel no need or desire to prove it to you. You can choose to believe me or not, either way it doesn't affect me.

In any event the Grand Lodge of NY seems to disagree with you as does our lodge secretary.

I don't understand what "5 roundy ')' shapes" are

A circle maybe

[edit on 8-7-2005 by AngelWitch]

>>>I will prove my identity to any Brother who asks, but I feel no need or >>>>desire to prove it to you. You can choose to believe me or not, either >>>>way it doesn't affect me.



See ? Even freemasons hate or at least don't care and are not affected by each others.

Hence failure of the system.


Mouhahahahaha....you don't fool the Cedric !


Cedric The Ephiminate